Chelsea red card and a penalty, losing their collective *%^@. You love to see it... when it’s not us..

Well that turns the Liverpool v Chelsea game on its head

And rudiger booked for trying to scuff up the penalty spot.

I’d like to see post review sanctions for such premeditated cheating. Rugby and Cricket both do it

Hard to disagree with much of that Wrighty

https://metro.co.uk/2021/08/28/ian-wrig ... dPxXwDkoKk

Rudiger has such an honest face, but is often involved in stuff that’s as dirty as you like. He broke De Bruyne’s cheek bone in the European final. Italian school of defending, er, the German part of Italy.

Arteta won’t be there long but who will replace him? I would take Allardyce right now till the end of season to try and keep us up.

Gawd blimey, imagine the reaction of our friend from across the Atlantic if that happened.

That’s how you defend properly when you have 10 men

Read a lot of valid comments as well as nonsense on here since final whistle

My general thoughts

The manager is responsible for the line up and I’d say he made a major mistake in not playing lokonga or elneny or possibly both. In addition AMN at right back makes more sense the soares. Apart from that ? I can’t really say there were mistakes.

The Arteta out stuff feels a little harsh, the bog average players that caused Wenger and Emery to lose their jobs lost us that game. It feels remarkable that we are talking about holding, chambers and Xhaka years on. Sacking the manager won’t fix this general malaise.

Things that can’t be controlled? Jesus Christ we can’t afford to lose 5 first team players for a game like this. We were always going to struggle.

Where from here ? I want 7 points minimum from the next 9 or serious questions need to be asked but my gut feeling ... nothing much will change even if you flip the manager whilst the spine of our squad contains that many losers and *%^@ me that’s depressing.

Nevertheless I’ll be at Norwich (solo by the looks of it) hoping for a result and will need several pre match beers in the duchess of Kent to deal with it.

https://twitter.com/ootoobeah/status/14 ... 06340?s=21

How can this be looked at by VAR and they still decide it’s not a foul. You could make an argument that not only should the goal be chalked off that this is borderline red card!

It is but we get bullied all over the pitch

Koopmeiners going to Atalanta for 14m euros. Such a steal for a sought after central mid.
Feels like a lot of bargains in this market and we’ve shopped in the English premium price market

So what do we do? Go and give some back….that ends up with red cards for us.

Do you think Martin Keown would have let that happen. You need villains right ? It’s not about the ref.

That and also the Leno 2nd v Brentford. We are so so so weak.

I looked at the lineup and thought "B**H**! We're going to get mullered", as if it weren't inevitable anyway.

Then I thought "That's our strongest attack, if they ever get a ball." And then tried to work out what would make it better. Mari? - no, probably still shell shocked from last week. Switch Tierney and Kolasinac? - no, we need Tierney at WB as one of our tiny chances of getting the ball to the front. Kolassinac??? - I'd prefer he wasn't on the park but at least he's tough enough - and who else? We knew from last week that this makeshift team needed a back three. Squeeze Elneny in for someone as an extra body in midfield? - wtf am I thinking that Elneny could be our saviour against the champions. I'd like to have seen Lokonga and AMN, and maybe Ramsdale, but I wouldn't throw them under the City steamroller - we need them to retain what confidence they can to play against teams we might beat. And Xhaka will always be Xhaka but at least he'll do his best and fight.

So I'm glad we didn't play any young and less experienced ones in midfield or defence and I'll not criticise Arteta for his selection.

And I know we have the injuries, and the covid and the unspecified unwell, but it's a pretty sorry state we're in for all that.

We have always been bad at selling with only a small number of successes - Iwobi, Walcott, AOC - but in recent years our buying has gone from not so great to really bad; hopefully turning up recently.

I've seen a lot of criticism of AW for the 2016 signings, but I've had a close look at signings going back for a decade from there. Up to 2016, they looked a typical AW mixture. Cheap buys, which might or might not prove inspired, and a small number of more expensive ones who were always highly skilled and potential game winners some of them young enough to develop.
2016 was entirely different. I don't need to name them but they were much dearer and didn't fit the typical AW profile at all. I know fans at the time were excited to see money being spent to fill the midfield gap and super-excited at the thought of midfield Granit. Ah well.
But I don't believe that these were AW purchases in the way they had been before. We know that Gazidis had been chiseling away at AW's influence and power, and scouting and recruitment always involves a number of people anyway.

Later we had Mislintat and Emery. Mislintat seems to take responsibility for Aubameyang, Douzi and Torreira with Emery responsible for Suarez. Aubameyang's been great but I was never convinced of the sense of spending a fortune on both him and Lacazette; lots of money, one position between them and each working best with entirely different setups. And Emery has specifically stated, once he was safely back in Spain, that he asked for Zaha and was given Pépé. So he wasn't pulling all the strings then.
And the Saliba signing was always baffling: that much money on such a young CB, surely meant he was going to be a real world beater, right? But then he was loaned back for the year because he wouldn't be ready. And at the end of the year they wanted him back for another loan because he still wasn't ready (and later wanted him for their cup final, which would add to their transfer profit if we agreed). Arteta had a look and felt he still wasn't ready; took time to arrange a loan and this year wanted him to accept a loan to an English team but he insisted on going to Marseille. And no-one dares say a word against Sanllehi.

Then the very peculiar collection of buys that would have been rejected by most bottom half teams. Mari, Cédric and ex-Chelsea Luiz and Willian. Mari and Cédric have had occasional good games and Willian had one (maybe a half). Luiz I think did what we signed him for and should be seen as a success. I find it hard to put these down to Arteta; tempted to point the finger at Edu and the players agent.

So while I'm unimpressed by our negotiating skills I was pleased to see the strategy shift with the buys this year. No idea if they will be good enough but they look like Arteta choices and they're young and promising enough to be good buys if they develop - I see them as akin to AOC and Walcott as a strategy. The big plus is that the club seems to be accepting that a turnround will take a few years and will cost money. I see that as a great change from buying cheap, not very good, experience, has been Chelseas and one or two exceptionally expensive and talented players to gild the plate.

Good insightful posts there P

I admit the previous strategy paid off with a FA cup - maybe two if we include AW's swansong - and we might have kicked on last year, as I'm sure we all hoped. Maybe Aubameyang was never going to reach the same heights after he had his new contract, but I look at the sale of Martinez.

I appreciate the financial logic of selling him. We'd discovered we had two top GKs and had talent holes all over the pitch with. no money to fill them. And keeping him would have meant at least matching the money AV were offering on top of forgoing the transfer fee. And giving Arteta a selection headache - not that he ever looked as if it was going to be a headache for him.

But.
Martinez was an essential component of that FA cup team. That success was against the odds and was dependent on a huge amount of team spirit.
And I think, in a playing sense, not just emotional. My impression had always been that the team played better with him as the GK. Purely as a GK, I would have put Leno ahead, but for the impact on the team as a whole I'd have picked Martinez. The defence looked more comfortable with him and after a while, they looked more settled, more of a unit. And that spread, within the limits of the talent available, to the rest of the team. Maybe that was just my perception and maybe I was wrong, but that's what I saw.
And I've seen it with other teams and other GKs. Some of them have the ability to make the team play better, others are great, or not, on their own.
I would like to believe that Ramsdale will be one of those that improves the team. And, if he is, I'd like him in the team as soon as we have the first team back.

I've no idea whether Arteta will be a good manager or not. He turned things round for a while after Emery, and I'd thought that was impossible. On the little I know, he wouldn't have been my selection. He's hardly an Arsenal legend, even if he is an old boy. And he has no experience at all. And the problem with appointing managers like him is that if you're in for a penny you need to be in for the pound. So you have to be looking at commitment and multi-year support. You can predict that he will take time to find his feet. You know that he won't have the experience to know how to be pragmatic and adapt instantly to situations changing. That's what you get with inexperience.

At the same time, Emery didn't work (and wouldn't have worked here however many years he had), I wasn't impressed enough by what I'd seen of younger British managers at the time, and the great experienced managers were either out of our reach or would have demanded money we didn't have and leave us in a worse position when they left. I was very relieved when Maureen went to Spurs. Wouldn't have minded Benitez, he seems to be able to work within limits without ruining the club, but I don't think he was available at the time and I don't know whether he'd have been seen as accepting a lower status than the club wants.

I'm willing to give him the time that will be needed. I'm disappointed at the style of play - I'd like glimpses at least of Wengerish beauty (or power, going further back) - but as a follower, presumably, of Pep I know it can be a very ugly style until a team coheres in playing it, assuming the players have the technique. And I assume the latter is what he's looking for in his signings.

class

A GK should be the commander of his penalty box.
High balls are snatched from the air before it gets to the attacker's head.
Lessens pressure on team's defenders too.
Defenders has higher confidence to know the GK can be relied upon to snatch more high balls than wait for them to defend it.
First thought from the GK is "I'll come out to grab that ball when it is in MY zone!", and not stay rooted inside the 6-yard box waiting to be a shot-stopper.
A good GK takes the initiative from the game, not wait for the next moment.
In that respect, Martinez does it well.

Was Kola even bothered to do his best out there?
Has Arteta even asked himself that question?
I would not have played him at all.
The guy wants to leave and have been made an outcast by Arteta.
If I was Kola, I would not bust my gut for Arteta or this team.
Just play and earn my keeps, but not over extend myself.

Williams deal to Corinthians is very much done according to many. There’s also a report that he’s effectively torn up his Arsenal contract, giving up in the region of £20m left on it. Reports suggest Willian accepts he’s not in the managers plans and things haven’t worked out and wants to leave English football with some integrity.

I’d much rather have Saliba in the side and making mistakes.

Watching the 3rd goal again, will Grealish have an easier run in to the box and beat the right back? The Jesus has time to take a touch, adjust his feet and pass it in within the 6 yard box.

As much as this is a joint mess up between players and managers we have players who will not get any better than they have shown for us the last 3 or so seasons. Chambers, Elneny, Kolasinac are 3 players we’ve desperately sent on loan, twice in some cases because they aren’t good enough for us, and now here there are still.

Cédric is just a terrible mistake and it looks like we’re stuck with him for another 3 years at £90k per week. What other side in the league makes that signing at even half those wages and half the contract length?

So much squad turnover has been done in the last 12 months but it feels like we’ve only scratched the surface.
Chambers, Cédric, Bellerin, Elneny, Kolasinac, AMN, Xhaka, Nketiah, Nelson, Willian, Lacazette and Leno is he doesn’t want to be here.
That’s 12 players or half our squad that shouldn’t be here! Someone like Lacazette can obviously offer us something this year but he’s the final year of his contract and will leave for free next year. We needed to move him on and replace him as well.

As Rich said about Saliba. Is he really below Chambers, Mari, etc, in the pecking order? It's got to be some non footballing reasons. Has to be.

LTG, you're correct but we were playing badly at the end of the previous season. No sign we changed over the summer in preseason, so why expect it now when we have first team players out, new players coming in, etc?

We played well before the goal, so it seems like we came out to play. We didn't have the self belief to maintain that after their goal. We folded like the bottom of the table side we are right now. Away to the best team in the league and one of the best in Europe. As professionals you'd like to see if they can get something out of the game, but most sides even good sides wouldn't in our situation. It was all done when Xhaka was sent off. The players were just hoping for the final whistle to get back to London and not be too embarrassed by the scoreline.

We bring in someone to keep us up, okay, then what? Keep them, get a new manager? We're starting to be like Sunderland. Lets see if Coleman is available if that's where we are. Someone with a name among the weak sides who the job is way too big for. haha

The worst part of that performance was the regularity we were caught out with a relatively simple cross. They weren’t ‘indefensible balls in’ we just couldn’t cope with basic movement. Goals 1 and 5 exemplify it but there were also chances for gundogan, Sterling and cancelo all from identical crosses or lofted balls over our back line. With 3 CB you should never get done like this. Chambers, Holding, Kolasinac has to be the slowest most immobile and timid back 3’s that is going to play in the league this season.

I just had a look back at the defence from the 8-2. It was Jenkinson, Djourou, Kos, Traore. This felt like a weaker defence yesterday

William Saliba vs Saint-Étienne

97 passes
96% pass accuracy
6/6 successful dribbles
2/2 accurate long balls
1 tackle won
1 interception
5 clearances
8/10 duels won

I daren’t even put up the similar Cédric stats that we’re doing the rounds last night

City’s 2nd goal. 4 v 3 towards the back post when we’ve had time to set up for this. Torres the goal scorer is unsurprisingly the free man. Holding is too deep playing them onside and I think is chambers and Kolasinac way too flat footed, the forwards have already made their run and every one of them has a yard. And not a single bit of physical contact. We’re not touch tight blocking runs or even a bit of grappling, every team does it and no penalties are every given. It’s far too easy, if you defend like this against City who don’t rely on set pieces what happens against teams who do?

I'm not surprised at the poor defending, did anyone expect much from the 5 that were picked?

The bigger issue for me is who was picked. If Arteta wanted a back 5 why not play AMN-Chambers-Holding-Teirney-Saka? Tierney is better in the LCB role than Kolasinac and AMN/Saka provide a decent amount of pace on the wings.

Or just stick with the back 4 from the Chelsea game, at least Arteta could claim he was going for consistency.

It's only Saint-Etienne

The Saliba mystery has to be non football related. I can't see any other reason.

When will be have our first choice central defense? As for the Norwich match, its a must win. A draw won't be acceptable. If its not a win, the knives are going to be out for Arteta. He's going to be judged game by game now and that kind of added pressure is never any good. The confident veneer is disappearing.

Even Pep is feeling sorry for him.

So would I rather have Saliba than any of our central defenders yesterday, Rich. Maybe that’s another thing Arteta needs to explain?

But I don’t think it’s fair to question Kolasinac’s professionalism. He’s obviously a relatively poor player, but I’ve always felt his attitude is fine. I certainly don’t think he went out to play badly intentionally. His performance was driven by his shortcomings.

Also, I realise it’s not saying much but I actually thought Kolasinac was our best central defender yesterday. Well, let me re-word that. I reckon he, on the day, was our least bad one. My own order, which is undeniably a subjective judgment, was this. The worst (more bad than the others): Chambers. The second worst (bad but not as bad as the worst): Holding. The least worst (bad but not as bad as the second worst): Kolasinac.

I would like to know if we have paid him a sum to leave like Özil. I assume we will never be told but I have doubts him and his manager would just leave for nothing.

Wow, tearing up 20 mil, respect to him (if true)

At least he is a future of the team (if Arteta would just put him in his plans)

Non Arsenal fans I know who have watched our club said, first they don't even enjoy seeing our matches. Its boring. Even if they know we'll lose. My Man Utd supporting friends said he enjoyed seeing us lose the first few years but now its more pity than anything else. Sorta like City he said for several years and even when they went down he didn't feel much joy, thats where we are.

Second, he said there is something that runs deeper than Arteta. The environment has changed it seems.