Deeper as in more players? They’ve failed to reach top four three of the last four seasons, so maybe some of their players just aren’t as good as their reputation anymore. They’ve got a few class players, but overall it’s an unbalanced and overrated squad until they prove otherwise.

Man U have depth in terms of their second 11 being very close in quality to their first 11. Particularly when compared with the strength of spurs, Chelsea and liverpools 2nd 11 in comparison to their 1st 11.

Man U had Romero, Shaw, smalling, lindelof, Herrera, fellaini, martial, lingard, rojo, young, Carrick, darmian not in their starting 11 at the weekend

Teams like the 3 mentioned above are dipping in to the academy long before Man U. I think they will be right up there this season. But, I think the title will once again be won by the team who can get that consistent best 11 on the pitch for the most games. Last 3 years title winners have had no injuries

No arguing that. But when talking about squad depth, surely the quality of the starting eleven is a factor 8and arguably the most important one)? Doesn't matter how close your backups are to your starting players if your starting players aren't as good as your rivals.

But putting all of that to the side, what really bugs me about all this is how nobody will say Arsenal are title contenders. It’s all about needing 1-2 or even 3 top class signings, not doing enough in the transfer market, Wenger possibly being past it etc. We’ve been consistently better than Man United in every way ever since Ferguson retired – better football, better results, better league positions, more trophies. Yet now they’ve apparently jumped ahead of us. Why exactly?

To illustrate my point further: Here's an article from BBC Sport where 40 pundits make their top four predictions for the season. 13 of them has Man United in 1st place. Nobody picked Arsenal. Chelsea and Tottenham - who really were the two dominant sides last season - only got one pick each.

Maybe they've turned a corner. Time will tell. But the way they're now a consensus title candidate based only on the amount of money they've spent is just weird.

I understand your point but in Mourinho they've got one of the most successful managers in the history of the game (albeit he spends a shedload of money to achieve that success) and he tends to get things right eventually.

I don't know how things will pan out this season but you can see a big, strong, powerful side emerging sprinkled with a little gold dust and a dollop of real pace.

Yes, there are still weaknesses to be dealt with so it may not be this season that sees them win a title but if you had to bet your house on whether Mourinho or Wenger would be the next manager to win a title I'd be surprised if you picked Wenger, given the fact that he's systematically failed to produce anything close to a title winning side in years.

I guess the bookies and pundits see it that way too.

On the flipside, most of his achievments have come in circumstances where there aren’t much competition – his first titles with Chelsea were back when nobody could even come close to their spending (and to be fair, Ranieri built big parts of that team), his title wins with Inter was when Juventus and Milan were still struggling after calciopoli, and then there’s Real Madrid where you’re never really the underdog. The CL win with Porto and the title win with Chelsea in his second stint is really the exception to this. He’s never had more work to do to win something, and this time he can’t just outspend everyone.

Another thing, many of those achievments are from years ago. He only won the league once in three seasons with Real Madrid, and once in three seasons with Chelsea. It’s been a while since he managed to produce winning sides consistently.

I honestly wouldn’t mind if people picked them for the title after ten games if they look impressive. But most of the hype came before they’d kicked a ball.

Do you see Tottenham with a good chance of winning the league, even though they're going to play all their home games at Wembley? I'm a little surprised they even got one pick, although maybe whoever chose them thought they would quickly adapt to Wembley, which isn't impossible. I'm also surprised Chelsea only got one pick, and I suspect it's because of the doubts over how many more players they can or will bring in this transfer window.

However, I'm much less surprised that nobody picked Arsenal. We have a chance of getting in the top four, but I reckon both Manchester clubs will finish above us and probably Chelsea too. I'd say it's harder to choose between Arsenal, Tottenham and indeed Liverpool when deciding their most likely order. But if Tottenham were still playing at White Hart Lane I would put them ahead of us.

I'm getting the impression part of your 'writing off' (if I can call it that) of Manchester United is based on their recent past, including last season. Do you genuinely think Arsenal have improved so much this summer to make up for our past shortfalls and win it?

Not really, but even with them playing their home games at Wembley I wouldn’t rate their chances much below Manchester United at this point.

Yes I did unfortunately. Be careful what you say. The forum has ears. Hoy will be on forcing some ZZZ's on you for being anti-Wenger.

A congo line of suck holes. Yes Maureen no Maureen three bags full.

Can we turn the discussion around, so instead of me explaining why I don’t think Man United will contend for the title, you can explain why you think they will? Seems more logical to me considering their recent history.

I can't pick who might win this year - not a clue - Chelsea had a bad start and then gathered up their loins and started running. I would say about Man U pundits seem to go on paper basically. And on paper you've got:
1. Maureen's second season (apparently that's a thing) although his second at Chelsea got him fired no??
2. The squad - the purchase of lukaku who pundits love and Matic gives them a better balanced squad with players that pundits and English fans know. And also a defender no-one's heard of but an extra body.
3. Second season for Pogba and Bailly the two promising signings from last year. Also development of Rashford
4. All the money. Pundits and fans love a good spend up - and there is some correlation between spending and success in football one has to say.
5. The positive feeling about the place, they won in Europe and qualified for the champions league so their 6th place gets forgotten and really upgraded to somewhere near 4th.
6. No other outstanding candidates. Chelsea no stronger Liverpool no stronger Spurs lost a player and playing at Wembley. Man C the possible exception but then they're the pundits other pick.

Which of these and other factors might come into play I don't know. The factor for me isn't Lukaku -Ibrahimovic was phenomenal last season and has ability Lukaku can't even imagine - but the way Matic and Pogba gel. That has all the hallmarks of being pretty potent and could solve the balance issues with Pogba's attacking instincts. They have quality in The aforementioned Matic and Pogba but also Rashford De Gea and good squad depth and potentially Lukaku if he rises to the occasion. And pace. They have pace.

So, I don't know, I can see why people might pick them, and if Chelsea continue to struggle only City are on the up really, apart from us and we're punching up from 5th in pundits minds.

That’s a good case – if any of the pundits had put it like that I’d be more inclined to accept their position! The arguments I’ve seen from the pundits are more of the kind that suggests they’ll be back in the title race because they’re Manchester United, or because they’ve spent a lot of money (on players we know aren’t really world class) or that there’s some kind of natural law that dictates Mourinho must get it right eventually (but it’s widely accepted that maybe Wenger just isn’t that good anymore).

I especially think the point about Matic and Pogba is valid – it certainly seems to work well against West Ham. Can’t understand why Chelsea sold Matic to a rival.

Final point about this - Rich got me thinking about our 'second eleven' and how it holds up. Had a look at the Manchester United squad, and if you use their starting eleven against West Ham as their de facto starting eleven this is what I came up with for second string:

Romero
Darmian - Smalling - Lindelöf - Shaw
Carrick - Herrera
Lingard - Fellaini - Young
Martial

Not used: Rojo, Pereira, Tuanzebe

For us, I'd say this is a likely starting eleven:

Čech
Mustafi - Mertesacker - Koscielny
Ox - Ramsey - Xhaka - Kolasinac
Özil - Lacazette - Sanchez

Which gives us a second string of

Ospina
Holding - Gabriel - Monreal
Bellerin - Coquelin - Elneny - Gibbs
Walcott - Giroud - Welbeck

Not used: Iwobi, Wilshere, Cazorla

You can argue about some players here and there, but overall I think that's pretty accurate. I have to say I prefer both our first and second eleven overall, and the fact that we have someone like Iwobi outside both of them is pretty impressive actually.

I'll do it for you, Hoy: ZZZZ

A manager who routinely gets trophies through a highly pragmatic approach; a good team that with a bit more luck could have turned two-thirds of the draws of last season into wins; the acquisition of two top men in Matic and Lukaku; and a number of attackers ready to come to the party, such as Martial and Mik. They are nowhere near as good as Ferguson's best squads, but well capable of winning the mediocre Premiership. European Cup maybe a bit of a stretch.

Those Zzzzs are awarded for being boring and trotting out the same old stuff ad nauseam. An original anti-Wenger post would be refreshing, if somewhat surprising.

Z is the last letter in the Alphabet, that's all I know about the letter Z. A series of Zs means somebody got to the end, and forgot to lift his finger.

Haven't you got any hardarse Swedes that could fit the bill ; say Ljunberg plus 5 inches .

Here we go ..... Albin Ekdahl ... 6"1" looks a cool dude ....sign him up .

Grab it .... he's given us good service and that's a 32 million dollar profit . Stan might overule Arsene on this one .

Mourinho did actually win the league in the second season of his second spell at Chelsea. He was reappointed at Chelsea in June 2013, making 2013/14 the first season back there when he didn't win it. 2014/15 was the second season of his second spell, and Chelsea did with the title. It was during the next season, his third back there, when he was sacked.

His most prized possession is a Boots Advantage Card.

He drives in the middle lane.

He has never watched Heimat.

Bloke's a *%^@.

Yep - Agreed - But what a bummer it would be if at seasons end City wins the thing and we come in second place !

I don't think we should sell our best player to a direct rival. We have been doing it and we need to establish that it will not happen ever again. Make it club policy. You come to The Arsenal you will not be sold to a direct league rival. Under any circumstances. So, its known coming in.

No *%^@.

"Reducing the number of revolutions per minute," Mr. Foster explained. "The surrogate goes round slower; therefore passes through the lung at longer intervals; therefore gives the embryo less oxygen. Nothing like oxygen-shortage for keeping an embryo below par." Again he rubbed his hands.

I take it from your comments that you don't want us to buy any more players whatever their nationality. Either that or you live in cloud cuckoo land.

you really are such a *%^@*** dullard...

Enough baiting AG it's boring. Watching Hoffenheim v Liverpool. Doesnt Gnabry play for them ?

He does and he wins a penalty. Hoffenheim miss it...... .

Liverpool kid scores a beaut of a free kick 1-0

Instead you can sit out your contract and join our rivals for free being able to command huge wages and Huge signing on fee.

I'm completely torn between whether we should sell or make the players see out their final year. If the money is big enough and the player has declared he WILL leave on a free in 12 months then we have to sell.

It will be another step backwards, but it will only be delaying the step backwards we would take in 12 months but we'd have £80m in our pockets

O Brave new world that has such people in it!

Ah thanks Bernard, so his third season he cocks it all up and loses the respect and trust of all his players. Good stuff.

I'm very much with Haz when it comes to Man U. They were second favourites this time last year and finished 6th. Lukaku is not as good as Zlatan but Matic improves their midfield. This Mourinho second season stuff is a bit like Tottenham and the year ending in 1.

Anyone of the top 6 could win it. City are.clear favourites for me, but Arsenal with no CL are in with a shot.

Thanks! Although I've probably jinxed them into another treble by now.

Mystic TG here.

Grab hold of your nips and your nuts folks as I think United could possibly win it this year. Maureen seems to be adding the right qualities and now they have some firepower. If not them its city.

Despite not signing many new players I can still see Spurs finishing above us.

..... and the key question for all Arsenal fans is when will the "Wenger out" shenanigans resume ? I'd say around December and January again as usual. I'm still not convinced we have the right type of players for the formation we are using long term and when we get hit by a few injuries in the wrong places (full back, centre half) things could become difficult to manage for le profmyarseur

So I expect a quiet game against Stoke. No bad tackles, no dives and no one fouling needlessly.

I suggest Wenger go to the press with this story and tell the referee and the FA that the referee had better perform and call a foul a foul and book players where appropriate. Get it out there so they are under immense pressure.

http://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/geoff-ca ... story.html

Lots of bummers in life Warrior .... what would be the bummer is Sanchez stays and doesn't perform .... 60 million now versus zilch next year goes a long way to buying a replacement .

Man Utd have to be considered among the 2 or 3 favorites to win the title. Would really love to see Mourinho implode another team again and especially Man Utd. The current situation with so many teams will force him (and others) to raise their game. The league has a number of good, proven managers. The one I am surprised at for not achieving is Klopp. He's used to situations where he's massively outspent by a rival.
It won't surprise many people if Mourinho does well.