While I agree with you tomc, it also goes the other way. I saw people declaring him as the right man for the job after two or three games. Both sides of the argument are arguably being made too soon, at least without some sort of ‘first impressions’ qualification. First impressions are inevitable. But in my opinion it’s too early to decide on Arteta, either way.

He also has the most average squad Arsenal have possessed since the mid 80s in my opinion. Few players capable of winning games. An ineffective midfield and youngsters being thrown in the deep end out of position.

Simply a recipe for disaster

He has at least got the players working harder, he worked out that we need to be tighter and at least has won the goodwill of the squad back.

Really my advice is don’t expect anything from the rest of the season, 6 wins out of 23 tells a story everyone really needs to know.

Morning Bernard

I know full well what started it .....Exiled said Rimmer and Kidd helped us stave off relegation and I added the above .

I'm not saying Mancini saved us by himself ... you got that bit ..... okay moving on .

Our results were dire before he arrived , then they improved . Bertie Mee gave him credit for lifting spirits in the dressing room thus improving results ....with me so far

"Charlie George was closer to Mee than you or I " so what ..... another smokescreen effort .

MEE SOLD HIM ; so Charlie is probably still nursing a gigantic chip on his shoulder the same way as Paul Davis is about George Graham .

This isn't a debate like "Supply and Demand " " Wiltord v Ljungberg " where you managed to muddy the water ; throw red herrings in all directions , move the goalposts so that 5000 posts apiece later it was stalemate .

No no no ...pure and simple you lost on two ocassions .... on the same subject

FINIS

NZ 8 Germany 0

Gidday Gaz ..... Arteta but has inherited probably the worst squad since the 1912 side .

There are no leaders , no national spine , awful defence , a paper mache midfield , with a hit and miss attack

For too long these players have been molly coddled wrapped up in cotton wool shielded from criticism

Overpaid and underperforming , the skill levels are really so poor .

When David Luiz is standing rooted to the ground , watching while the opposition guy half a metre away takes a free header . I just cannot figure that one .

Mikel has a major job on his hands

Good God, how on earth you can accuse me of muddying the water, I’ve no idea. In my view I walked to victory in this debate, like others you’ve opposed me on, whether or not you eventually end up making it New Zealand 50 Germany 0. Dream on. If ‘FINIS’ is FINISH misspelt and if that means you’re not going to keep responding with utter drivel then hallelujah.

Before you get all binary. I didn't say I wasn't giving Arteta a chance and actually think he's done reasonably well since joining. At the very least to increase commitment and improve the team shape and defensive structure.

What I was doing was sharing the observation of Gaz that for large chunks of the Sheffield match we were largely crap (misplaced passes, poor movement, static positioning, missed chances). There are a myriad of reasons why that could be the case (Injuries, suspensions, very young players filling in, new tactics, etc) but my comment on the match performance has nothing to do with Arteta's future.

P.s. and I also agree with Bernard on whether Arteta is the right or wrong guy and it's still too early to tell. I'm not convinced of either but can understand both sides of the fence while I sit firmly on it.

I agree that this is a major rebuild. There are lots of positives and at least hope for the future. Then I see that we are looking at some left back who is injury prone & not motivated. Are you sure we are going forward. Does Arteta have any say at all or is it a signing he wants. I will be interested to see how we go against Chelsea. One of my problems is I don’t think a leopard does change their spots and I wonder when a few will revert to type. First half against Leeds and second against Crystal P as an example. Have they really bought into the revolution or do they pretend to until the going gets tough. Not a great squad but then even Wenger took 8 at Man U before he did a panic buying spree.

I was watching youtube highlights of the left back at PSG we are getting in the summer and he looks great. Tierney is going to have to fight for his position. That LB seems like he could even be a winger.

I am sad, not disappointed, with AMN. The kid has strong potential to be a very good player. But he tends to switch off momentarily and get careless. Not sure if he is trying too hard to send knife-edge passes, or simply lump it. Too many misplaced passes, and that terrible cross the other night. Is he losing motivation because he knows he is not first choice for right midfield?

I reckon one should look at AMN as a squad back up rather than an automatic choice for the first team at either right back or midfield. I’m uncomfortable with the way people (not just you in this specific case) so often seem to fall back on questioning players’ motivation and therefore attitude (I don’t see how one can be questioned without the other). I’ve not seen anything wrong with AMN in that respect.

As a squad back up, I see him as good enough. As a first choice regular, on the evidence so far (and he has played plenty of games) I don’t. He isn’t a great (or even particularly good) passer of the ball. Moreover, if he can’t pass the ball at right back he won’t be able to from midfield so I remain unconvinced about the ‘playing out of position’ excuse. Indeed, I reckon a poor passer is likely to be exposed in midfield even more than at right back. Some may disagree with that, but it’s the way I perceive things at this point.

A useful squad member without being up to the mark to be a first choice. If he ever becomes a regular or first choice, I’d say that would be a very long way from good news.

Hmm....I wonder if the deal for Guimaraes can still get done? The highlights look good.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football ... w-21321228

I also wonder how the atmosphere around the club is. Hodd?

According to arsenal.com it's Mkhitaryan's birthday...lol. Forgot he is still an Arsenal player. Wonder if Arteta has considered him.

Can’t say I’ve ever seen him so what makes you say he’s unmotivated? If he misses lots of games through injury, the injury prone comment may have more substance. You, to be fair, gave strong warnings about Tierney’s injury record that others seemed to disagree with. As things turned out, with his first season almost being a write off (nine starts as the first choice left back), maybe it’s difficult to claim you were being unduly pessimistic on that score?

Anyway, I feel what’s still more debatable is Tierney’s quality. In his first couple of games against Forest and Liege at home he did look good going forward. But when they attack are Forest and Liege around the same sort of level he would have faced week in week out in the Scottish league? How much defending did he have to do at Celtic when they weren’t playing Rangers? Was it possible to tell how good a defender he was before he joined? I’m not certain it is.

Having said that, if he can stay fit I’m glad we signed him. Sadly it can be argued that his injury record showed, and it still showing, why his transfer fee was a lot less that lots of top left backs would cost, including the bloke at Leicester according to reports.

I can't say I'm especially optimistic about tonight's game. Chelsea are not a great side and are inconsistent but I think we are even worse.

A better work ethic from the players is a positive thing but it can't really hide the fact that we are lacking quality.

If Pépé turns it on and Martinelli has his finishing boots on I give us a puncher's chance but not really much more.

Walked in the living room yesterday and my son was watching a “classic” game from 2010 where we lost away to Wigan 3-2.

Our midfield 3 was Craig Eastmond, Diaby and Nasri at no10 with Rosicky and Walcott wide. Despite losing we looked quite fluid on the ball and I got wondering if I would swap that 11 for the one we have now. That’s how bad we are at the moment.

The Arsenal today in 1950. Get your Brylcream out.

btw if you look at the back of that one you can see it was re-used for a Cup Final feature. This was part of a big feature in the Picture Post.

Binged on COBRA over the last couple of evenings. That's a television production Kiwi, not Indian booze.

Bloody good series. I'd watched a few (thoroughly enjoyable) episodes before I spotted the author.

Rest assured that I'm not going "all binary", whatever that means. I'm very relaxed about it all. All I want is for Arteta to keep us out of bother this season (thanks to the shitshow that preceded him we are only 7 points off the bottom three), gradually sort out the wheat from the chaff, and hopefully come back next season with a team that is more his than his predecessors. Then we can see what Arteta is made of and whether he is the right man for the job.

With the dross that he inherited there is bound to be odd bad performance. We're not a very good team.

Shows everyone has their own tastes. I’ve not watched a single second of it myself but I know two different people who have. One thought it was average, the other called it crap (the exact word used).

I'm at the point I am equally as concerned about Liverpool's results as I am ours. I like Liverpool actually except for Michael Owen (both for the 2001 cup final and his personality). Always had a soft spot for them (and Palace for a couple of personal reasons) and I liked that 'scouse' tag due to its poor / working class associations. As well as one or two things in their history. But I don't want to see anyone equal our record and when the big money came into the league starting with Roman, I knew our unbeaten streak was going to be threatened by the sheer weight of the amount of money thrown at teams by their owners.

To be fair, Liverpool did it the 'right' way through canny buying and not from billionaires flooding them with cash to buy anything under the sun. My anxiety driven fears each season have possibly come to fruition. They could have done it last season. City are fully capable of it. And didn't Mourinho only lose one game one season for Chelsea?

This is a depressing season. Losing consistently to Chelsea, Tottenham and Man Utd for a time was grueling as well. With the odd blow out from either of them.

In America we start an impeachment trial that is going in this order. 1. Innocent. 2. A trial 3. Using the exoneration to say 'see, we were right'. The irony is that if there was a secret vote Trump would be convicted. He operates by fear in his own party.

America has no reliable allies. None. We have alienated EVERY ally. Possibly Israel but its a transactional relationship right now. They are well aware of his antisemitism despite having a Jewish son in law and a converted daughter. They are fully aware that the supremacists who were chanting "Jews will not replace us' as they marched in Virginia were called "decent people' by Trump. They are getting what they want (US Embassy in Jerusalem, possible war with Iran and full support against the Palestinians) because Trump has traded zealot evangelical support for their wanting to play out book of Revelations apocalyptic prophesies to speed up a return of the Messiah. (yeah, its that crazy).

Anyway, the 'special relationship' with the UK is in tatters. Europe rightfully sees him as a dangerous buffoon. What has not been discussed within America because we like to see ourselves as the Romans viewed themselves is that we are a broken country. If 4 years later, Trump, with all the insanity, still has a core 40% give or take, support, it means the American people are a broken people. There are simply not enough 'good' people to counter the ones that reinforce every negative American stereotype.

The first thing I am asked in cabs abroad is my opinion of Trump and the person judges you based solely on that answer. I am not offended. When you have someone in charge of nukes and over a quarter of the world's GNP who is clearly off his rocker, its disconcerting.

I think Bernie Sanders can get the nomination and win but the damage has already been done. We're reminiscent of the last days of the Roman Empire, debased currency, living on past glories, endemically corrupt and morally broken. I would wonder how the Germans could let the Nazis get so much power and it was hard to comprehend...until now. It's surreal.

Do you know what.
Even if we get hammered 3 0 tonight I'm still going to be right behind Mikel.
Throughout the rest of this season through the summer and into next season.
He is the man I wanted and unlike some Arsenal fans who change their opinion based on the result from one game to the next I'm sticking by him.
There is something fresh about Mikel.
Something that says he is in control and 'knows' where he is going and where he wants to take us.
I love the way he communicates and sees his job as a privilege.
Him all day along over people like Allegri and Mourinho.
We needed a massive reset and to start from scratch and from basics.
Glad to see the hierarchy agreed and went for him.
He needs time and patience and a few windows. I really hope some of the fan base don't turn with a few bad results.
Would love to win today but would take a draw.
Not the end of the world.
We are a few steps down a long pathway with Mikel. I have faith.

Gosh ...when you are not rambling on about the " Ipcress File " you can be quite emotional .

furthering your education FINIS is not mispelt Finish .... it is Latin for The End

NZ 9 Germany 0

I feel exactly the same Dave . The attitude of the team , style of play , personel has been all wrong under the last three managers [ if you count Ljungberg's short disastrous tenure ]

Old habits die hard , when you see the spurt of activity after Sheffield equalised then they lapsed back into that ineffectual cross field going nowhere rubbish that has hamstrung Arsenal for the last six years .

This isn't going to be remedied 'overnight '.

The channel the match is on has a show going on now called 'Soccerbox' with Gerrard and Neville and they play games they were in and its great hearing the back stories of games, players, environment.

I would love to see a show (if there is, I don't know) where they would do that with other players who were on rival sides. There was a show with Vieira and Keane that I liked.

I'd like to see a show with Sherringham and maybe big Tone or whomever. I hate Sherringham. Hate him with a passion. But would love to hear him talk about the rivalry when he was with both Tottenham and Man Utd. I'd like to see the same with the Northeast derby as well. And a twist, the fans/firms of Millwall and West Ham as swell as the players.

As far as the game, obviously I'd love a win but a draw may be the only thing we are capable of right now. I feel HOW we play is the most important thing. When we lost 2-1 to them, I left the game thinking we looked great in the first half and even though it was only for a half, we usually didn't turn up much against the rival sides.

Thanks for that DH ...saves me racing into all the liquor outlets breathlessy gasping " Have you got any Cobra "

Not so sure the " author " would be thanking you for broadcasting that ...... I'd say he values his anonymity .

Well thanks for that Bern. You don’t sound too cheerful.

I’m sure he’ll learn to live with such fame KP. And grow. Or maybe just leave the country and sue.

Personally, I’m still licking my wounds from your last and most vicious attack, you nasty old noswoc. Just as well you lost yer ‘ampsteads years ago. All those years of chewing solder. Talk about being savaged by a dead sheep.

I see Bellerin has some dangling cross earrings on in warm up. I'm hoping he takes them off for the game.

If AMN isn't injured I find the Bellerin inclusion baffling. He hasn't looked the same player since his comeback from injury and how can he possibly be ready for a game of this magnitude.

It's not like AMN has been playing poorly either.

Hmm. Flame machines on the pitch before the game.

We’ve come a long way from the days of the Metropolitan Police Band.

We are just dreadful.

No passing

No combination football

No one twos

Just awful

Game over.

Oh well.

Wtf!!!

Mustafi is a complete joke.

And Chelsea are a horrible shower of *****.

Classic Mustafi and it’s all over again

We are appalling. The crisis continues