It almost always says more about the "fans" than the player. The kind of people who would vote for Trump.

First was a nail on penalty & the second he was too slow and failed to even try to stop the cross. It was him wasn’t it. As for the lost goal - yep harsh.

If we lost that semi he would have gone.

It was a wretched season apart from the cup run.

There is no fluidity to our play. We went two up from set pieces, not through attacking prowess.

A big decision needs to me made over Emery. There has been no real progress in the 15 months he's been here, infact we are arguably slightly worse both defensively and offensively.

Giving the captaincy to a player who should not even be an automatic starter was just plain stupid.

The real question is whether there is a suitable replacement for Emery who is currently available and gettable.

Yes, that was greatly to his credit. He came out of it a bigger man, though still a rather erratic performer!

I thought VAR only overrules the ref when there is a clear and obvious error. The first intervention was debatable but probably was a pen, the second intervention was scandalous because there was no clear and obvious foul, infact an argument could be made that Chambers was the one who was fouled.

Still seething from the disappointing result. We were robbed, no doubt. But even more seething is the way we crumbled. 2-0 up, goodness.

Whilst i do put the blame squarely at emery’s door for failing to improve the defence we also have insolratis, Luiz, Leno and Xhaka 4 player who play every game and who must have amassed well over 1000 top flight appearances between them, you would have hoped there would be something coming from the players, some organising, basic principles of
Positioning, marking and shape.

Clattenburg has said the zaha pen shouldn’t have been a pen. He said chambers leg was planted and zaha engineered the contact by diving. So if one of the former top refs in this country thinks there is debate how are these decisions suddenly being over turned when not a single one was for 9 weeks

When we play Leicester away in a couple of weeks watch as they take the initiative, attack us and play with pace and dynamism. The first half will follow this pattern of play so much that an opening goal for Leicester will become a formality. We will meanwhile offer nothing on the counter despite Leicester’s two CB being pretty average.
That’s what top teams do, they impose themselves on the game, the play with pace they attack. At one point in the second half we had 48% possession at home to palace. This is not the tactics or style of a top team and the results it harvests are proving that beyond any doubt.

They have been very clear that in order to overturn the refs decision it needs to be 100% clear that he made the wrong call. That's just not the case here, no matter how anyone tries to argue. It's two points being taken away from us, it's as simple as that, and our poor performance doesn't take that away. You don't deserve to have points taken away just because you're not playing well.

Exactly the point I’ve made on here countless times when it comes to refs costing us games that we played poorly in. No matter how well or badly you play you deserve the correct ref calls, I hate the idea of ‘we shouldn’t have needed a ref decision to beat X team’ sometimes you will beat a team by only 1 goal and you don’t expect a ref to chalk off that perfectly good goal. 2 points stolen no doubt.
Add it to the pen not given at sheff Utd as well, changes the course of the game if that is given

Arsenal football club have created the fan base we have now. It is an hysterical fan base who are ready to implode at the slightest hint of failure whether that be at the game or on the internet. The over riding feeling of frustration and impatience in the arsenal fans has been created by the passive, underwhelming attitude of a club that was happy treading water for far too long. 10 odd years of total lack of ambition does something to fans and it can’t be corrected over night with a shiny new £72m player, however nice that present felt at the time. I don’t like the way the fans are at games, but I don’t blame them, they’ve been sold out too many times, they’ve been promised change they’ve been promised hard work, backbone, spirit, they’ve been promised the club and team will learn from their mistakes but they’ve been let down time and again. That is why the reaction from Arsenal fans is so shocking, so raw. They are ready to turn on anyone and anything. Certain players will bore the brunt of it but the reality is they are just a lightening rod for what has happened at our club for the past 10 years. The club seem to be doing so much right off the pitch but the buck stops with what happens on the pitch and at the moment I don’t even look forward to arsenal games, I’ve watched fewer games than any season in my memory and now actively look to do something else when Arsenal are playing, it is hard to justify investing the time in something so inherently dull and predictable.

Yes we have had a decade of bad management

I never really found our fans glory hunting types, there have been boo boys in the past but the scenarios with Eboué and Xhaka are just different. Players just not good enough for the club.

The moment Xhaka was announced captain we all knew this was coming. It was discussed at length here. You make him captain you have to play him, you have to play him then the teams output is worse. It’s just bad management.

What happens now ? He’s definitely dropped for the next game.

Will he be though? I’m not convinced emery will drop him. Sure he’ll be left out of the league cup game but what about next week at home to wolves? Maybe to protect him from the home crowd and let thing settle down but probably straight back in v Leicester and conceding. A silly penalty against vardy

I thought the match day ref didn’t give the penalty and even booked Zaha for diving (rescinded when VAR gave the penalty as a yellow card didn’t appear next to his name on the ground’s scoreboard). The match day ref wasn’t to blame for VAR giving the penalty. Similarly, the match day ref allowed Sokratis late goal. It was again VAR that subsequently disallowed it.

I suspect people were hoping VAR would work like Hawkeye in cricket or tennis. Sadly that was probably naive. Where it does work in football is establishing whether the ball crossed the line fully for a goal, which uses a similar principle to whether the ball was hitting the stumps etc in cricket or whether a shot landed in or out in tennis.

But what is or isn’t a foul in the penalty area in football is far more down to personal interpretation and opinion. This is because penalties should be given for a foul in the box. The easy bit is whether the incident was in the box. The harder bit is defining if it was a foul or merely contact, because football is a contact sport and not all contact is a foul. The match day ref decided Zaha dived, which Rich said an experienced former ref Clattenberg agreed with after seeing it on video. The VAR ref, who is presumably an experienced current ref, felt it was a foul as I noticed various people did on here last night. Do you see what I mean? It’s down to individual interpretations and opinions. It isn’t an undeniable decision either way.

Penalty decisions for hand ball will be easier to get right if a penalty has to be given when a defending player touches the ball in the area. What makes such decisions more controversial is whether the hand ball was deliberate or accidental comes into the equation. I’m not up on the current rules enough to know which is the case these days.

Thought Ian Wright got it right on match of the day about Xhaka.

At the end of the day he’s had a handful of decent games for arsenal at best in several years. No right to be behaving in such a manner.

Kevin whitcher also wrote well about it today, referred back to people getting frustrated at Artetas limitations so isn’t it to b expected with Xhaka

I don't think VAR has anything to do with the ball crossing the line or not. That's goal line technology which has been around a couple of years now.

Re handball, it's a penalty regardless if it's accidental or not. That's new for this season onwards.

VAR in principle is a good thing but it's not being used correctly. If the on field ref is any doubt about a goal, foul etc then seek a second opinion or use the pitch side monitor. If the ref is happy with his initial decision then that should be final. It's a shambles at the moment. Fans have no idea why goals are being chalked off. Players celebrating goals will be a thing of the past as they won't know if it's a legitimate goal or not. It's farcical.

Saw their pen again and have to agree it wasn't a penalty. Zaha's standing leg isn't touched, his right leg doesn't touch Chambers and he clearly dives. Ref was right VAR was wrong.

Chambers did nothing to merit being penalised for the winning goal if anything he should have had a pen for the shove on him. VAR ref should be punished for his error and Atkinson also for not looking at it on the screen if not why did he pull out the card?

They are wrecking the game not making it better but wtf do we expect when Riley is their leader........

That won’t stop bad decisions though. Referees can be certain they were right even when they were wrong. I accept goal line technology isn’t part of VAR. I mentioned it because it works on the same principle as Hawkeye in cricket or tennis, which does work.

If a penalty for handball now has nothing to do with whether it was deliberate, that should make things straightforward and, in terms of the current rules of the game, easier to get right. What’s more debatable is whether the current rules are right. Is it fair to give a penalty when a defending player genuinely had no intention of handling the ball? For example when an attacker blasts the ball straight at his hand from a short distance.

VAR works fine. There'll be some teething problems but we need technology to make sure we get the right decisions.

It certainly doesn't. It's application is hugely inconsistent. I have no issue with their penalty yesterday but the disallowed goal was a farce. So are the endless replays attempting to discern if a player is a milimeter offside or if the ball has made the most minor contact with a player or not. And then you get incidents which are inexplicably ignored. Wolves should have had a nailed on penalty against Newcastle yesterday. VAR is bloody awful right now.

True, but also very unfair on defenders? If a penalty can be given for non-deliberate handball (are we sure about this?) then all forwards will be developing the skill of passing a ball onto an opponents arm. I remember Henry doing it a few times and getting us a pen. In a crowded box it may even be an easier option than finding your own man. Defenders will presumably have to learn how to remain balanced and mobile with arms behind their backs. That really isn't easy. Mertesacker must be well pleased he has retired...

I don't think that is the rule. We have had refs talk to us about the handball rule before schoolbous matches this season. If a player is running along in a normal fashion and the ball is whacked off his hand, it is not a foul, for example.

An Australian ref who has never reffed a prem game and only a couple of ChampionshIp games, that was the var guy.

Yes that seems how it should be.

Tough weekend. Draw when we should have won and Tottenham does what Keane says about them. 'You can always count on Tottenham to let you down'.

Re-group and lets keep trying. I don't see us beating Liverpool in the league cup even with a weakened LFC side but one never knows. It's why we play the game. I definitely feel Liverpool could win all the domestic trophies fairly comfortably if they avoid major injuries.

Anyway, I've been doing some scouting...lol..and watching the FIFA youth tournament that's been going on. I recall I spotted Messi and Obi Mikel years ago and said I may be criticized for it but Messi was 'Maradonna-esque'. After that tournament Barcalona put him on a much improved contract and locked him up. I assume there was a huge interest in him after that.

Get rid of Riley and put a decent ref in charge of the referees and things will improve immediately.

Reintroduce some of the retired refs who were much muuch better than the current bunch and the problem will no longer be there.

Stop changing things during the season it doesn't help. Make the rules last all season god or bad, this changing the way they are interpreted could only have been Riley's fault.

I don’t have a problem with the VAR ref not having reffed a prem game, as long as he’s qualified, has reffed at a decent level, and understands the rules he has time and replays to come to a correct decision. Experience is probably more important in terms of dealing with onfield reffing where you need to manage the occasion, a large crowd, bigger egos, greater pressure etc. Having said that it is strange that you wouldn’t have prem refs for prem games

My take on how var needs to be implanted to work properly. Everything they have said should be done is exactly right, it’s just that they’re not doing it as they’ve said they would. The only exception I’d make is for the pitch ref to review his own decisions on the pitch side monitor, and for the decisions to be fully explained to the match day fans.
Var is not meant to re-referee the game, and is not there to correct minor calls that have little bearing on he game, it looks at goals, penalties and red cards. All fine. Now crucially, the video ref only over rules the onfield ref for clear and obvious errors. This can be matters of fact like offside or a very clear foul missed by the ref. Where any decision requires lots of time, multiple angles and multiple replays there must be some doubt and it is too subjective to over rule therefore not clear and obvious, so you go with the on field call. In many ways like LBW in cricket

On the commentary I listened to yesterday they were fuming at Guendouzi’s rugby tackle on Zaha at the end. Saying it should be a straight red (which wouldn’t have been a massive surprise as it’s happened to us before) but their comments went way over the top, they actually said “kids will be watching this” “we may as well stop playing if that’s how professionals treat each other” and other such hyperbole statements. The odd thing with this is this was a rugby tackle where Zaha’s wellness was never ever put in harm, as opposed to the dangerous high, 2 footed or over aggressive tackles we’ve had to suffer.....when the reaction was normally greater sympathy for the tackler than the injured party.
One is as cynical as it gets and premeditated but causes no injury. The other is seen as part of the ‘mans’ game. It is similar to the diving argument, it’s seen as the worst thing a player can do by many. I don’t get it

Welbeck our for 3 months possibly more. When I thought we only had £40m to spend this summer I was in favour of him getting a new deal, pay as you play or similar, all on the basis that we needed defenders and him being with the squad was better than no one coming in. Given we signed Pépé and Martinelli it was the right decision to part ways, as it was with Wilshere.
Also worth noting that other regular injured players Ramsey and Ox have been injured at their new clubs as well. I don’t know how Ox will end up but so far his career with Liverpool is much like he had with us, 1-2 great games or great goals followed by inconsistency and long periods on the bench and longer periods on the treatment table. At the moment we definitely have the better end of that £35m deal - not that any Liverpool fan would admit it

You can add Jack Wilshere to that list of players as well. I feel sorry for Welbeck. It seems to be one setback after another. We were right to let him go however.

In fact, the players we have sold or released haven't been setting the world alight. Walcott and Iwobi at Everton, Sanchez, the Ox and Wilshere. It's early days for Ramsey but I guess he won't be a stranger to the treatment room.

It should solely be for case were the referree's mistake is so clear that it is not down to personal interpretation and opinion. Why not do it like rugby or cricket, where everyone in the stadium can see the footage the var adjudicator is watching?

Sure you are going to get cases where even watching the incident in slowmo from three angles isn't going to resolve the doubt ... In that case you go with the onfield call. The Var official must be 100% convinced that the onfield officials got it wrong. It should be for indefensible calls only. That was not the case for either incident last night. Similarly the Var official must make public exactly what the mistake was. I still have no idea what was wrong with Sok's goal.

Still no apology from Xhaka then.

We should loan the guy to spurs

VAR is a mess as even Stevie Wonder and the Blind Boys of Alabama can see, nevertheless despite what has been said by some on here we threw that 3 points away having gone 2 up in 9 minutes. Aubameyang has been having a little dip recently and it's showing clearly how his goals have carried the team. The midfield is a complete shitshow.

I've identified a few promising players from watching the FIFA under 17 tournament. Who can be kind enough to run my prelimintary, unsolicited but important scouting report to to Colney in a folder titled 'For Emery's Eyes Only"?

Watching Spain vs Argentina. I've seen more stepovers than navigating a dog park.

I wish there was some how we could have kept Ramsey.

Thinking about Guendouzi’s rise this season, often being the driving force and leader of the team, he’s 20, that is kudos for him for the level he’s achieving but he should be the icing on the team cake at that age, not having to be the glue that holds it all together.