There have been a few games where I don’t think he has put in the effort. He is supposed to be captain ; he needs to act like it. Despite what others think- no player can just park themselves up in the penalty area. Those days have gone, particularly at a club like ours that is mid table.

Or just a run of bad form? Before the dropping incident and his poor form is in the Europa league game where the whole team was sluggish, he'd been showing signs of being back to his best.

If you think he's showing signs of decline, could you explain which attributes you think have diminished? Pace? Ability to find pockets of space? Shooting ability?

Alex Ferguson always knew when to get rid of his stars. Look at the number he offloaded early and look how he always replaced them mostly with younger players.

Sanchez went at almost the best time. Holding onto Ozul was the worst decision ever made etc etc.

I’d say his pace has declined. It’s inevitable. I remember telling you once that Usain Bolt’s fastest time was a few days before he reached his 23rd birthday. So he was still 22. He continued winning gold medals galore because as a one off, nobody could beat him even when he was past his quickest. With the same training, diet and so on, people get slower as they get increasingly older. As I said earlier, for me 32 is about the age when I think players with great pace begin to wave goodbye to their peaks. However, good a season Vardy is having, I bet he’s lost some pace. It’s what happens to human beings. There’s no point in denying it.

Maybe it is a poor run of form. But it’s quite a time since he signed that contract, so it’s turning into a bloody long run of poor form. Or, as I asked, perhaps it’s a change in attitude. I don’t know the answer, just like everyone here. But I suggest it’s a question worth asking.

I agree that it is a question worth asking. However, it seemed to me you had only set out two of the three possible answers: which are a poor run of form, age-induced decline, or change in attitute.

He renewed his contract in mid-September. That’s over six months ago. I was going to say it’s turning into a bloody long run of poor form. But maybe it already is one, if that really is the reason.

True, but he hung onto the real nuggets, like Giggs and Scholes. And when he sold top players, he always had the resources to replace them (or already had world class young talent like Ronaldo and Rooney when he sold RvN).

The signs are that Arteta will not be sentimental and will move on players who don't fit. However, as Top Gun has correctly argued, you don't let a player who has scored 83 goals in 133 appearance go without having a clear idea of how you are going to replace those goals.

It’s more that, a bit like Henry before him, I just couldn’t imagine the side without him. And now I can. That’s not to say that I want him out.

I’m less convinced than you though about his current effectiveness to the team’s efforts.

I do agree with that. But I’d add the proviso that rather than only taking the global figures for his time at Arsenal into account (if that is what you’re doing), it’s surely necessary to consider their recent contributions for a player approaching 32.

It is a longish time. But its been quite an unsettled time, with the team lacking creativity in the first part of the season and Aubameyang in and out for various reasons. I don't rule out that you may be right, although my instinct is that he's got another year or so in him. Too early to say, in my view.

Of course. The point is that it is much tougher for Arteta than it was for Ferguson (which is the comparison Chris was making). When they sold RvN they had Ronaldo, Giggs, Rooney, Solsjaer and Saha. Arteta's got Lacazette and a bunch of unproven kids.

It was your post I was replying to rather than bubblechris’ points.

Is this because our team is better though ?

For me it looks far better this season. Last season we were so dependent on him it was ridiculous he was the only one performing.

This year I feel it’s coming together and we aren’t solely dependent on him to get our goals.

You now have 2 decent young attacking midfielders who will run all day, solid central defence options, heroic left back, a battling midfielder and 3 decent wide options and Lacazette back in confidence because of these things. For me it just feels better

Precisely. Back in September, when we renewed his contract, things looked very different. I don't think giving him a such a fat contract at his age was necessarily the right thing to do, mind you. Those who were critical at the time certainly had a point.

It is only a few weeks since Aubameyang scored a hatrick against Leeds and followed it up with those vital goals against Benfica. He had a shocker on Thursday night but that has happened before. He is the type of striker who scores bucketfuls but every once in a while has a game where he misses easy chances.

It is also worth noting that our overall attacking play was terrible for the first half of this season. We were creating very little. Thankfully that has improved but was far more relevant to his scoring stats than signing a new contract.

But I was responding to Bubblechris.

It’s big sports, the winners get big contracts these days and the moment they make a mistake it’s cited on the contract. We were burned by Özil and it’s affected peoples thoughts on this but it was the right thing to do. We couldn’t replace him last summer let’s be honest

In the moments we need Aubameyang his contract doesn’t come into it because we pay him 250k a week for his instincts and decision making ultimately. Didn’t come off this week but he wasn’t the only one who missed sitters. I really hope he isn’t benched tomorrow, that would be an unfair psychological blow and could cause a problem

Very definitely so. You’re quite right in that.

In my view at least, completely accurate assessment from a person on the right who is just after the truth (and includes the Lincoln Project of former establishment Republicans). And should scare the sh*t out of any sane person, especially any sane, fair American. Also, re-emphasizes my view that the American experiment is over. Anything that people within and outside America admired about us whether it was ever true, is done. Finished. Not going to return. If Europe were smart they'd prepare for a world where America is in visible decline. There are simply too many Americans who have lost faith in the viability of the present republic. Both parties have them. Mostly Republican but the left progressives as well. The BLM protests were mainly young Gen Z and Gen Y far left progressives. They supported Bernie Sanders and are now disappointed in him. They have lost faith in the American government, certainly the right to govern fairly but also within the Democracy to govern for the masses. The ones on the right are the hard core Trump supporters.

See Peter Lorimer, the Leeds legend, died today. I’m sure a number of the forum’s more mature members (in terms of age) will remember him. A former Scottish international (he was born in Dundee), noted for his ferocious shooting from long distances. He was only 74, not that old considering modern life expectancies.

Couldnt agree more. I recall Aubameyang chasing right backs the length of the pitch not that long ago. He was clearly pissed off with himself when he missed what should have been the first goal vs Olypiacos. The team attacking model is still changing and his and every role in that team still evolving.

Yep Bellerin is softer, can't cross for *%^@ and definitely more in the mould of Clichy. He also wears his shorts too high.

With no interesting Premier League games today I thought I'd watch Bayern - Stuttgart to see how Mavropanos is doing. Started interestingly enough with Bayern getting a player sent off after ten minutes. Then Bayern proceeded to score three goals in six minutes, adding a fourth before half time. Not Mavropanos fault in particular but not exactly a game where he stands out either...

That Lewandowski is a good player, we should try to sign him.

Good player.

Probably the least offensive of Don Revie’s bunch of noswocs. Christ I hated that team - like most of humankind.

Yep. ‘Good player’ is high praise, considering. It’s about as much as I can manage.

I couldn’t stand them either. I’ve been to two FA Cup finals not involving Arsenal. The 1975 West Ham vs Fulham one, in which I supported Fulham. And the 1970 final at Wembley, Chelsea vs Leeds. It was a 2-2 draw and I didn’t go to the replay.

I actually wanted Chelsea to win, and I have never had any affinity with them whatsoever. By which I mean they were only my second ‘least favourite’ London club because of Tottenham.

Despite that, at the time I actually wanted Chelsea to win the 1970 final, because of who they were playing. How times change!

Actually I’d probably still prefer for Chelsea to beat Leeds in a cup final. Just never got over the club including when O’Leary was with them .

With all that’s been said, and I understand the hatred,the Leeds team is still in my top 3 best ever domestic teams… with our invincibles and the Liverpool team with Souness Rush Dalgleish et al. I’m hard pressed to put them in order. These three are the best I’ve ever seen...even above the great Utd teams (Best Law and Charlton version and the treble winners) or current Man C team who are on course for a four timer

They were so good I still remember their team. Goalkeeper: Sprake, Right Back: Reaney, Left Back: Cooper, Central Defence: Charlton and Hunter, Right Midfield: Lorimer, Left Midfield: Gray, Central Midfield: Bremner and Giles, Forwards: Jones and Clark. Madely was the adaptable fill in for various defensive positions.

The first hard core Leeds fan I met was in the British pub in LA. And I recall him saying "That Revie side could play any type of football you wanted. If you came to put the boot in, we had no problem with it, even relished it, but if you came to play proper football, we excelled at that too."

For the most part, that's been confirmed by most fans. They were hated, loathed but undeniably good. From what I gather from Leeds fan, the club thought the London and other southern sides were a bit soft so perhaps they started a bit more physical admittedly.

...oh, forgot to mention, I recall him remembering that when they played Liverpool it was great football on both sides but when they played Man Utd they were out to hurt each other. Not sure how much of that is his view or how it actually was.

Almost posted a few weeks ago when Shrewsbury game mentioned from GG years. Went to that game and sat next to Nigel Winterburn’s parents. They were so nice and even shared their home made fruit cake with me and mate. They told us that Nige wasn’t that passionate bout football as a kid - funny how that turned out! What a player.

Always wondered which current player’s parents would do the same.

Next post in 2022![/quote]

What makes this forum uniquely special are these types of stories. Can't find them anywhere else really.[/quote]

I’m breaking my once a year pattern but glad you enjoyed the post AG.

I think those GG era away days were the best - always took thousands away and it was ( usually) good natured fun, taking the piss out of the locals. So many great memories. Did a Tuesday night to Anfield for a league cup tie which ended 2-2. We totally outplayed them and it was one of the games when there were big clues about the glory coming round the corner and the decline of Liverpool. For me that was one of the greatest and most important games seen over the many years of following this great club. Have still got the ticket stub, programme and press cuttings.
Also memorable for the pre game fun:someone somehow got a ghetto blaster into the ground and a mini acid house style rave drowned out the house PA with a mass of floppy haired Gooners giving it large in the corner. The faces of the pinch faced scouse old men staring at them from the next stand was memorable.

Interesting that some of you have long memories when it comes to Leeds and their implosion and rise from the ashes like a Phoenix isn't enough. They have been chastened. But then again, I didn't have to put up with them as a gooner n the early 70s.

To be fair, if Man Utd imploded, I'd still hate them. Same with Chelsea, Tottenham. Hmm..who else? Any club fat Sam is managing. I still feel a wee bit anti Bolton, all due to fat Sam being there.

I'm happy for West Ham and their manager, good guy. I hope Palace gets better. I have a soft spot for them. Whenever there are clips of the '90 FA cup I will them to beat Man Utd. Had they won, its rumored Fergie would have been sacked.

I would love to see the alternate universe of no Fergie at Man Utd after '90. They would still be good but how good?

Haha..great stuff!! From what I hear about Liverpool, you guys were brave.

Almost posted a few weeks ago when Shrewsbury game mentioned from GG years. Went to that game and sat next to Nigel Winterburn’s parents. They were so nice and even shared their home made fruit cake with me and mate. They told us that Nige wasn’t that passionate bout football as a kid - funny how that turned out! What a player.

Always wondered which current player’s parents would do the same.

Next post in 2022![/quote]
If you read the forum every day, was that a 0-1 win at Shrewsbury in the League Cup when Michael Thomas scored? I also went to that with a couple of friends and my wife to be (it must have been before I married her). One of the more puzzling away games we decided to attend. The only reason I can think of was us not having been to an away game at Shrewsbury before - or since as it’s turned out.[/quote]

Me again - can’t stop! Waiting for missus to wake up before early morning walk on Hackney Marshes.

Yes it was that game and I share your uncertainty about why I went - probably because I just enjoyed those trips so much that I would go anywhere in those days. Stopped off at a couple of places on way up including some Roman remains ( don’t ask). Remember a fairly dull game, a long drive back & feeling shattered the next day. But desperate to tell the Winterburn story ( as I still am!).

God willing I'd like to spend several weeks going from the south coast to Geordie country (throw in Scotland as well and make it even further north) and just see football matches, all conferences. In fact, I'd prefer the small clubs.

Yeah, getting back to the car was nerve wracking. And remember relief seeing that the wheels were still on it having turned down the ‘kind’ offer to pay £5 before the game for a couple of urchins to look after it. I have no idea what I would have done if we had got stuck in a Liverpool side street at 10.30pm with about a pound left in my pocket.

A fiver!!!! The going rate for ‘protected’ on street parking in Manchester and Liverpool in the early seventies was a quid. Well worth paying.

The greedy so and so’s. Glad I took the risk and didn’t pay. £1 - bargain! But it was 1988 so gotta allow for inflation.
Always thought that the car protection scam was a northern urban myth / stereotype thing until that day. When it happened other times after that, I always said I would pay after the game. No one ever came to collect. Putting on that posh / sincere voice and speaking slowly always worked.
I

This is what we did in Philly. If there was no parking for a club, and we had to park on the street, we'd go to a homeless person nearby and rip a $20 bill in half and say "you get the other half if you watch the car. Any problems you can't handle come get us at the club, tell the bouncer".