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Post #509681  Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2021 7:32 am 
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So what did we learn from last night.

Amongst over things......

- we continue to have lots of possession but run out of ideas in the final third, other than the same old tactic of Tierney crossing the ball hopefully into a penalty area with perhaps just one Arsenal player in it. Do they not work on variations in attacking plays during training? We seem so one-dimensional.

- Martinelli and Balogun seem out of their depth at CF, which means we are stuck with either Lacazette or Aubameyang, neither of whom are pulling up any trees.

- I was shocked by how poor Ben White was in the air. I watched his compilation videos and was excited by his passing range and ability to come out from the back with the ball and thought he might be a revelation and allow us to be much more progressive. However, I am not sure you can spend £50m on a CB who is no good in the air, unless you intend to play a back 3.

That begs the question as to what our scouting system was actually trying to identify. It's early days but if last night's aerial display is replicated during the rest of the seasons (and lets face it this is a league where aerial duels are part and parcel of the game) then we may have a problem.

- Leno's decision-making and execution of passes with the ball at his feet remains unconvincing but frankly our defenders and midfield struggle to cope with the ball under pressure when it is played out to them anyway.

- Lokonga looks promising.

- People keep excusing Arteta because of the lack of quality in the squad, but the very best managers are able to coax the best out of even average players and find a way of playing that suits the players at their disposal, neither of which seems to be happening.

- it's a mess and barring 3 or 4 top quality signings it is hard to see where we go from here

- Emile Smith Rowe was brilliant at times, the best player on the pitch and head and shoulder above the rest of the team but he couldn't do it all on his own despite his best efforts to do so.

- Pépé was crowded out with two players on him whenever he got possession but that should have allowed us to switch the ball and exploit space elsewhere.


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Post #509682  Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2021 7:38 am 
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socrates wrote:
So what did we learn from last night.

Amongst over things......

- we continue to have lots of possession but run out of ideas in the final third, other than the same old tactic of Tierney crossing the ball hopefully into a penalty area with perhaps just one Arsenal player in it. Do they not work on variations in attacking plays during training? We seem so one-dimensional.

- Martinelli and Balogun seem out of their depth at CF, which means we are stuck with either Lacazette or Aubameyang, neither of whom are pulling up any trees.

- I was shocked by how poor Ben White was in the air. I watched his compilation videos and was excited by his passing range and ability to come out from the back with the ball and thought he might be a revelation and allow us to be much more progressive. However, I am not sure you can spend £50m on a CB who is no good in the air, unless you intend to play a back 3.

That begs the question as to what our scouting system was actually trying to identify. It's early days but if last night's aerial display is replicated during the rest of the seasons (and lets face it this is a league where aerial duels are part and parcel of the game) then we may have a problem.

- Leno's decision-making and execution of passes with the ball at his feet remains unconvincing but frankly our defenders and midfield struggle to cope with the ball under pressure when it is played out to them anyway.

- Lokonga looks promising.

- People keep excusing Arteta because of the lack of quality in the squad, but the very best managers are able to coax the best out of even average players and find a way of playing that suits the players at their disposal, neither of which seems to be happening.

- it's a mess and barring 3 or 4 top quality signings it is hard to see where we go from here

- Emile Smith Rowe was brilliant at times, the best player on the pitch and head and shoulder above the rest of the team but he couldn't do it all on his own despite his best efforts to do so.

- Pépé was crowded out with two players on him whenever he got possession but that should have allowed us to switch the ball and exploit space elsewhere.

On your final. If 2 players are on him one other Arsenal player is free. Where is the free player?

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Post #509683  Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2021 7:39 am 
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Gaz from Oz wrote:
The continuing complaint that Kroenke will not spend money needs to be examined. So to satisfy Arteta’s wishes he approved about 8 mil to pay off Sokaritis Mustafi and Özil, pays Willian, pays the annual 18mil owed for the Pépé time payments plus buys 3 players, Refuses to sell Xhaka and apparently actually increases his wages. Then they want to buy Odagaard/ Maddison and Ramsdale. Whether they can get any of them is a moot point. But far from not investing the opportunities are there.

The question as to whether the money is well spent is a matter to ask others not the owners. There was a lack of spending for years but put that down to Wenger failing to kick up a big enough stink to embarrass them into spending. Then of course we had all the Wenger buys, the socialist wage policy when we did spend.

To an extent Kroenke lets Arsenal spend it’s own money. The club has one of the biggest fan bases in world football, benefits commercially from selling merchandise to that fan base, it gets huge television and sponsorship revenues, and sells out a 60k stadium where the ticket prices are probably as high as anywhere. Arsenal should be one of the wealthiest clubs in the world comparing it to others using their own resources. Not the richest, agreed. But one of them.

But not only that, Stan is one the richest football club owners in the world. That’s why I find it frustrating when people say we can’t compete with financially doped clubs as though it’s unfair. We can. It’s just that we don’t because, unlike Abramovich and others, he refuses to use KSE’s own money to compete with them.


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Post #509684  Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2021 7:40 am 
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Gunfire wrote:
socrates wrote:
So what did we learn from last night.

Amongst over things......

- we continue to have lots of possession but run out of ideas in the final third, other than the same old tactic of Tierney crossing the ball hopefully into a penalty area with perhaps just one Arsenal player in it. Do they not work on variations in attacking plays during training? We seem so one-dimensional.

- Martinelli and Balogun seem out of their depth at CF, which means we are stuck with either Lacazette or Aubameyang, neither of whom are pulling up any trees.

- I was shocked by how poor Ben White was in the air. I watched his compilation videos and was excited by his passing range and ability to come out from the back with the ball and thought he might be a revelation and allow us to be much more progressive. However, I am not sure you can spend £50m on a CB who is no good in the air, unless you intend to play a back 3.

That begs the question as to what our scouting system was actually trying to identify. It's early days but if last night's aerial display is replicated during the rest of the seasons (and lets face it this is a league where aerial duels are part and parcel of the game) then we may have a problem.

- Leno's decision-making and execution of passes with the ball at his feet remains unconvincing but frankly our defenders and midfield struggle to cope with the ball under pressure when it is played out to them anyway.

- Lokonga looks promising.

- People keep excusing Arteta because of the lack of quality in the squad, but the very best managers are able to coax the best out of even average players and find a way of playing that suits the players at their disposal, neither of which seems to be happening.

- it's a mess and barring 3 or 4 top quality signings it is hard to see where we go from here

- Emile Smith Rowe was brilliant at times, the best player on the pitch and head and shoulder above the rest of the team but he couldn't do it all on his own despite his best efforts to do so.

- Pépé was crowded out with two players on him whenever he got possession but that should have allowed us to switch the ball and exploit space elsewhere.

On your final. If 2 players are on him one other Arsenal player is free. Where is the free player?


Exactly Gun, we failed to exploit the free man.


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Post #509685  Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2021 7:41 am 
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Rich wrote:
When you look at all the players in our squad, how many of them immediately jump out as having an ‘intensity’ to their natural game, or even the ability and desire to up the intensity levels where required?
Tierney, martinelli, Emile Smith Rowe, saka….not sure who else.

Brentford played at a higher intensity. You lose some quality when you do, the game can be slightly more chaotic and frantic but if one teams ups the intensity levels and pace of the game and the other is unable to match it or is simply not skilful enough to play at their tempo and pass it around making the intensity look like headless chickens, then the faster pace and aggression will always win.

Managers drive the intensity. Remember Manure under Ferguson? They need a goal in the final 10 mins and their players would buzzing like wasps, flying g into tackles and busting a gut to get a goal. I can't imaginArteta giving the hair dryer treatment at half time.

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Post #509686  Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2021 7:54 am 
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Surely there's room for improvement ...

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Post #509687  Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2021 8:02 am 
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warrior wrote:
Surely there's room for improvement ...

Attachment:
PL.jpg

With the next two games being against Chelsea and Manchester City, I wouldn’t bet against us occupying the same position after three matches. Now I’ve said that, maybe we’ll win both to have six points from three games.


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Post #509688  Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2021 8:05 am 
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Interesting.

https://www.football.london/arsenal-fc/transfer-news/richard-garlick-arsenal-transfer-strategy-21277733?fbclid=IwAR3o7rJjHUMo2umWXSQOmgabFT0apBJSF3pM6npYGutrtKAvsRQd5ZbkRw0

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Post #509689  Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2021 8:13 am 
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Bernard wrote:
warrior wrote:
Surely there's room for improvement ...

Attachment:
PL.jpg

With the next two games being against Chelsea and Manchester City, I wouldn’t bet against us occupying the same position after three matches. Now I’ve said that, maybe we’ll win both to have six points from three games.

Our best hope will be another club losing games by even more goals than we do.

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Post #509690  Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2021 8:19 am 
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Woke up still thinking about that game. What a mess

Chambers, Mari and Xhaka all totally abysmal.
Balogun out of his depth,
Leno totally at fault for an absurd second goal. No command of his box, no strength or guts and this guy is refusing to sign a new contract.
White unable to win anything in the air (I bet you any money it’s a back 3 v chelsea)
Pépé just couldn’t beat his man and Martinelli running around like a headless chicken.


Our worst opening day performance since Mick Quinn scored a hat trick I reckon.

What a mess. All the senior players aren’t good enough and can’t be trusted leaving us too dependent on young lads.

This could be a very bad season. I’d be sorely tempted to bin off Ødegaard and try again for Maddison.

Dreading chelsea next week


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Post #509691  Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2021 8:29 am 
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Also slowly and reluctantly coming to the conclusion I was wrong about Leno also.

Seems to get done at his near post an awful lot. Still the least of our problems but it’s a problem.


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Post #509692  Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2021 8:38 am 
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Bernard wrote:
Now I've said that, maybe we'll win both to have six points from three games.


Bernard - I've tapped into your webcam.

Image


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Post #509693  Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2021 8:49 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Woke up still thinking about that game. What a mess

Here's the 'highlights' - if you can call it that.



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Post #509694  Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2021 8:49 am 
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Bernard wrote:
Rich wrote:
I can see the joy in the media and from other fans every time we lose a game or make the same old mistakes. And I can completely understand it, I’d be the same if it wasn’t us, in a way it wouldn’t be fair if a big club went for so long being a shambles, being mismanaged from top to bottom on and off the pitch, weren’t punished for their failings. Some clubs can just buy their way out of this, use the law of averages that eventually they’ll get it right and gain some respectability. We can’t/won’t do it do every other fan will be quite right in being glad that we’re being punished for years of poor decisions and lack of ambition.

Rich, why do you even put the word “can’t” in your final sentence? If Kroenke wanted to make us financially doped, he easily has the money to do so. The start of your sentence “We can’t/won’t do it….” should be: “We won’t do it.…”

Fair enough. I suppose the 'can't' is if we're actually sticking by the rules. What we need is a £300m injection of quality players, that would bust FFP for us. Other teams have got around it - so yes 'won't' is the more appropriate word.


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Post #509695  Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2021 8:53 am 
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Bernard wrote:
long time gooner wrote:
My nagging concern is that it seems to me that even if we did financially dope we’d still be rubbish. So many other things seem wrong right now.

I think you’ve hit the nail on the head. Rich talks about radical squad overhauls and lists strikers at other clubs who will give us problems. Yes, they probably will for their current clubs. But myself, I’ve got doubts the quality of our existing players and replacing them with new signings is our biggest issue. I suspect it’s a distraction. Indeed, I reckon if any of the players Rich listed joined Arsenal, you’d soon get people here moaning about how we bought deadwood.

That's probably true as well. Most of those strikers at other clubs have been bought in to a clear vision or at least played to their strengths and surrounded by players who play to their strengths. Most teams from 8th downwards play a very simple style of football. Numbers behind the ball, close down the ball quickly and in an organised way, go direct to the front men if and when required - who are able to hold the ball up and run the channels to help move the ball up the pitch, make the most of set pieces, put crosses in to players arriving in the box or players who will at least challenge for the ball and have players who often just want to shift the ball and shoot.
Ollie Watkins for example I doubt would have had much impact if he'd been our starting striker last night but how Villa set up really suits him.


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Post #509696  Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2021 8:55 am 
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Bernard wrote:
warrior wrote:
Surely there's room for improvement ...

Attachment:
PL.jpg

With the next two games being against Chelsea and Manchester City, I wouldn’t bet against us occupying the same position after three matches. Now I’ve said that, maybe we’ll win both to have six points from three games.

Home game against Chelsea. Should be good for a point. Home crowd and we seemed to play well against them last year. Arteta will likely play 3 at the back and play them on the break. Not sure our crowd will love it and of course this team has conceded in every game this season including all friendlies.

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Post #509697  Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2021 8:56 am 
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Gunfire wrote:
On your final. If 2 players are on him one other Arsenal player is free. Where is the free player?

That requires the ball to be moved quickly and players to have an intensity about their play with and without the ball. We have neither.


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Post #509698  Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2021 9:01 am 
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Apparently Lokonga and White did the interviews last night - few people criticising more senior players for not stepping up and instead leaving it to two new signings.

I thought Lokonga was actually one of the few bright spots. You could see he always wanted to go forward and had an appreciation of his surroundings when taking the ball of the defence, there were a couple of drops of the shoulder and letting the ball run past him to beat the press quite successfully.


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Post #509699  Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2021 9:07 am 
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We still seem to have problems in every position of the team bar left-back in my opinion.
GK: Leno won't sign a new deal, looks nervous with the ball at his feet, doesn't command his area or confidence and we're short of a senior No.2
RB: 4 options none of them remotely good enough
CB: White and Gabriel for a full season should be good enough to get us in the top 6 but I'm not necessarily convinced any of our CB can propel us any further
LB: Tierney continues to be very good - make him captain
CM: Excited to see Partey/Lokonga get a run together but Partey keeps breaking down. Then the only back up are the painfully slow and sideways Xhaka and Elneny - both shouldn't be in the squad
wide players: Willian still hanging around, Martinelli struggling to find his place in the team where he can be effective, Pépé is up and down, Saka has a lot on his shoulders and we're asking even more in terms of goals. Huge lack of creativity from wide areas
ACM: Smith Rowe carries the entire burden of creativity on his own currently
Strikers: Aubameyang is regressing and uninvolved in games, Lacazette has 12 months on his deal, Nketiah 12 months left and no one wants to sign him, Balogun needs a loan

If you want a top 4 squad you need 2 quality players in every position.
For my money that means we lack:
2 x GK, 2 x RB, 2 x CB, 2 x CM, 1 x ACM, 1 x winger and 2 x striker


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Post #509700  Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2021 9:12 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Also slowly and reluctantly coming to the conclusion I was wrong about Leno also.

Seems to get done at his near post an awful lot. Still the least of our problems but it’s a problem.



Put simply, he isn't aggressive enough. We need a Lehmann.

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Post #509701  Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2021 9:13 am 
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We often find our inability to create much because we're too slow in our build up to the final 3rd so face 11 man defences (the stats show we process the ball forward slower than any team in the league)
So when opponents press us as Brentford did we need to see it as an opportunity to be able to move the ball forward quickly, bypass half their team and be able to attack with much more space. For me there are quite simply two ways to do this.
1) Short quick passing around the press. this is what we tried last night but our passing was poor and simply passed a worse problem on to the next man. Xhaka is really poor at this for a lot of reasons - immobile, plays with head down, wants too many touches and often doesn't open up the passing channels for players to find him even if he's in space
2) go more direct. people will say we don't have strikers who are good for this tactic. But Liverpool play some very direct football at times and I wouldn't describe Salah/Mané/Firminho has target men, what they are are very intelligent footballers with an appreciation of space, anticipation, excellent first touch and an ability to use their body to draw fouls or make it impossible for the defender to win it. Honestly, watch Liverpool and see how often Salah and Mané in particular retain possession against the odds from a punted clearance.


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Post #509702  Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2021 9:15 am 
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When was the last time we went in to a season feeling 'ready'? We're always short of players, short of fitness, underprepared, have injuries or don't have a settled team and style of play.

I think every season for the last 7-8 at least I'm less and less excited by it because I know we're always not ready.


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Post #509703  Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2021 9:23 am 
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It is annoying to see the 'weak and bullied' and 'men against boys' headlines, last night did feel like that but it insinuates that is something that always happens to Arsenal but the reality is we'd done a lot to shift that tag and it is lazy to go back to it thinking it is all too common.
But allowing that to happen last night drags it back in to focus again.


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Post #509704  Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2021 9:25 am 
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Rich wrote:
When was the last time we went in to a season feeling 'ready'? We're always short of players, short of fitness, underprepared, have injuries or don't have a settled team and style of play.

I think every season for the last 7-8 at least I'm less and less excited by it because I know we're always not ready.

The game that came to mind yesterday for some reason was the 8-2 at United that triggered that pathetic trolley dash where we were scrambling to sign any player available. I don’t think you will see similar but I imagine you might see a couple more in addition to Ødegaard.


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Post #509705  Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2021 9:32 am 
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Actually if you think about it if that mad trolley dash never happened Arteta would never have been selected as our manager and Mertesacker managing the academy.


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Post #509706  Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2021 9:45 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Rich wrote:
When was the last time we went in to a season feeling 'ready'? We're always short of players, short of fitness, underprepared, have injuries or don't have a settled team and style of play.

I think every season for the last 7-8 at least I'm less and less excited by it because I know we're always not ready.

The game that came to mind yesterday for some reason was the 8-2 at United that triggered that pathetic trolley dash where we were scrambling to sign any player available. I don’t think you will see similar but I imagine you might see a couple more in addition to Ødegaard.

I just looked back to 16/17 season when we lost 4-3 at home to Liverpool on the opening day - we were 4-1 down at one stage and Liverpool tore us apart. Our 2 CB and 2 CM that day were.......Holding, Chambers, Coquelin and Elneny. So we're 5 seasons on and 3 of those are still at the club having never proved they are good enough.


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Post #509707  Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2021 9:47 am 
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Tierney and Martinelli combined for 1 pass all game. Something was massively wrong with the set up. We looked far better when Saka came in on the left


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Post #509708  Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2021 9:53 am 
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Also I find the absences of lacazette and aubameyang suspicious, actually just total made up bollocks. Don’t know what’s happening there. I do wonder if we might have seen the last of aubameyang


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Post #509709  Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2021 9:56 am 
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Rich wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
The game that came to mind yesterday for some reason was the 8-2 at United that triggered that pathetic trolley dash where we were scrambling to sign any player available. I don’t think you will see similar but I imagine you might see a couple more in addition to Ødegaard.

I just looked back to 16/17 season when we lost 4-3 at home to Liverpool on the opening day - we were 4-1 down at one stage and Liverpool tore us apart. Our 2 CB and 2 CM that day were.......Holding, Chambers, Coquelin and Elneny. So we're 5 seasons on and 3 of those are still at the club having never proved they are good enough.

I think that game was Holding's debut. Given that we were missing our three first-choice central defenders that day - Koscielny, Mertesacker and Gabriel, all out injured - I guess it isn't that surprising we were torn apart.

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Post #509710  Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2021 9:57 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Also I find the absences of lacazette and aubameyang suspicious, actually just total made up bollocks. Don’t know what’s happening there. I do wonder if we might have seen the last of aubameyang


I think they are both going away

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Post #509711  Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2021 10:02 am 
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Rich wrote:
Tierney and Martinelli combined for 1 pass all game. Something was massively wrong with the set up. We looked far better when Saka came in on the left

Saka came on in the 60th minute. Saka and Tierney had 13 passes between them in the 30 mins he was on the pitch and 14 of Arsenals 22 goal attempts occurred after Saka came on


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Post #509712  Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2021 10:10 am 
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Rich wrote:
Tierney and Martinelli combined for 1 pass all game. Something was massively wrong with the set up. We looked far better when Saka came in on the left

That can’t be right. We have a super duper Pep protege with oodles of technical nous and knowledge in how to set up a team.

At least that’s what we were told at the start.

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Post #509713  Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2021 10:12 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Also I find the absences of lacazette and aubameyang suspicious, actually just total made up bollocks. Don’t know what’s happening there. I do wonder if we might have seen the last of aubameyang

According to a report Arteta said that they didn’t feel well and that he didn’t know when they’d be back.

As you say, total made up gonads.

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Post #509714  Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2021 10:12 am 
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Will Arteta keep his job if he finishes in any of these scenarios. Not that he should or not but what the board will do:

1. 7th and no Europe.
2. 7th or 8th and Europa Cup
3. 5th or 6th

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Post #509715  Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2021 10:14 am 
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Brentford benefitted massively from their crowd support.

I imagine that ours will be less effusive next week. Groans are more likely to be the order of the day once an initial surge has faded.

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Post #509716  Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2021 10:25 am 
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gooner7 wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
Also I find the absences of lacazette and aubameyang suspicious, actually just total made up bollocks. Don’t know what’s happening there. I do wonder if we might have seen the last of aubameyang


I think they are both going away

Hard to imagine any club picking up Aubameyang’s wages.

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Post #509717  Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2021 10:36 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Also I find the absences of lacazette and aubameyang suspicious, actually just total made up bollocks. Don’t know what’s happening there. I do wonder if we might have seen the last of aubameyang


I did too, TG. Both players ill towards the end of the transfer window?. Seems very suspicious.

Someone on twitter jokingly mentioned a swap seal with Ødegaard and Aubameyang.

Having said that ltg is right, who is going to pick up Aubameyang's monster salary.

Plus having seen Balogun and Martinelli's attempts to play CF last night I'm not sure we afford to lose either, not unless a new expensive shiny CF is coming in.


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Post #509718  Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2021 10:38 am 
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long time gooner wrote:
Brentford benefitted massively from their crowd support.

I imagine that ours will be less effusive next week. Groans are more likely to be the order of the day once an initial surge has faded.


Hi ltg,

Yes, once we are 3-0 down after 5 minutes with a Leno howler and two Ben White own goals the initial optimism will have faded ever so slightly.


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Post #509719  Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2021 10:41 am 
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long time gooner wrote:
gooner7 wrote:

I think they are both going away

Hard to imagine any club picking up Aubameyang’s wages.

Honestly I could see us doing a deal with someone like a US MLS team where we agree to pay 50% of Aubameyangs salary till his contract expires. Similarly Lacazette who is on a free from January anyway

If they did that it Would give us back 150k a week to invest in the salary of another striker for Aubameyang and 80 for Lacazette.


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Post #509720  Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2021 10:44 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
long time gooner wrote:
Hard to imagine any club picking up Aubameyang’s wages.

Honestly I could see us doing a deal with someone like a US MLS team where we agree to pay 50% of Aubameyangs salary till his contract expires. Similarly Lacazette who is on a free from January anyway

If they did that it Would give us back 150k a week to invest in the salary of another striker for Aubameyang and 80 for Lacazette.


Not sure either would want the MLS quite yet in their careers.

Lets's face it Covid has really *%^@** up clubs looking to sell ageing players on big salaries.


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