You're wasting your breath Sab, I've been saying for weeks we need a top quality CB but people keep telling me we have enough CBs. Not on the evidence of the last couple of games and pre-season we don't and not of the quality required to actually win a league. Wenger seems more concerned with player sales than bringing anyone else in, it's all about balancing the books.

Monreal is a left back not a CB in a back three. We should have stuck Mert in the middle today. As you point out, playing players in their natural postions might help.

To be fair we gifted our opponents the obligatory soft goal but it was more about our own lack of ruthlessness in front of goal and overplaying against a packed defence, which we always do. People moan about the Ox but at least he tried to get in behind their defence with a few injections of pace and dribbling. The rest of the time it was fancy little flicks and impossibly intricate eye-of-the-needle passes.

It seemed to be the kind of decision that very often goes the way of the attacker but was correct so its hard to complain too much. An emphatic finish though.

Fair enough ..... that makes it worse , we can't say we were robbed.

I'd question the decision to play Bellerin forward . he gets in promising positions but his passing is generally wayward and shooting awful .

He was SO unlucky. Personally I think the rule is wrong as well - I would make it so the whole of the player has to be in front of the last defender as Lacazette derived no advantage from such a tiny fraction of his body being in front. Nevertheless dems de rules and it's the same in cricket when it comes to agonisingly close LBW calls on where the ball pitched, struck the leg or whether it was clipping a stump. In the end, we have no grounds for complaint other than it was deeply frustrating as so many of those would not get picked up or the benefit of the doubt would have been given to the attacker. But we can't argue about the benefit of the doubt as the Lino didn't exhibit any and the evidence shows the decision was technically correct. At the time - when they definitely looked level - I was howling that we had been done but changed my mind when I saw the evidence and then listened to Poll as I am quite sure Lomekian will as well being a rational and evidence-based individual when it comes to refs.

We were on the pen but to be fair I didn't think it was one either until I saw the replay with a highlight of the way his back leg was taken out.

Hold on ; is this the same guy who posted pictures of four ton diver's boots every time "Mert" was mentioned

...an ...and ..... and now he isn't there ...... he should be ....??

Depends if Bernard is around.

Any port in a storm, Kiwi, at least he's a CB. What about Holding and Chambers, Wenger would rather play players out of position than play them. What does that say about the CBs at the club.

Exactly.

We had loads of possession. Stoke were game but we're not particularly disciplined at the back. Özil was on the ball a lot but what did he do? Surely, this is the type of game that we expect him to be the main man in. He dropped deep and played lateral passes.

Yes .... I take great comfort from Lomekian's assessments ...... it makes a defeat much easier to swallow , knowing we are the only Premier League side to be robbed on a weekly basis .

No surprise today. It will be the same for the next 2 years.

No idea why wenger is playing so many players out of position. 2 left backs at CB with two natural CB on th bench. Bellerin at LWB!

Long season ahead. I predict 9 league defeats, at least 7-8 away from home.

Also Wenger confirming my opinion that far from a professor he is actually rather thick when he says it was a "very easy decision". It clearly wasn't given both how marginal it was and nobody has managed a single reply based on either logic or fact to Poll's demonstration that it was offside.

z etc.

"Any port in a storm" ...... depends from which direction the hurricane is blowing .

I'd don't think Merts would have been the answer today .Diagonal long balls catch him out .
I agree with you our centre halves aren't up to much .

Holding seems of late to make some bad decisions , Mustafi at times makes Geoff Blockley look good . Kosch continually injured and a bit flaky , Gabriel gone , Chambers never recovered from the roasting that Mexican gave him .

He's a bloody mad professor I know that, every decision he makes seems weirdly illogical and yet in his mind he is always right and everybody else is wrong.

For an apparently clever bloke he doesn't half make some daft decisions.

Yeah I agree with some criticisms of the Ox but Wenger hasn't made things any easier for him by moving him to every position bar goalie.

Why this f%$*ng fascination with playing full backs in central defence. Ok last week granted but today he could have played mustafi mertsacker and holding or even chambers.
Yet we go with monreal and kolasinac who should be playing left wingback.
Hate losing to this scummy neanderthal team and its scummy supporters. Just had a feeling that jese would have some impact on the game.
We were by far the better team but didnt do enough in front of goal but once again lacazette showed how lethal he can be in front of goal.
Need more quality in central midfield and a draxler or a lemar.
Just always seem short. Why doesnt wenger just do whats required and bring in the quality we require.
Could have 3 out of 9 after Liverpool next week.
Same old b%*&s%*^.

Actually there's room for one more now that Gabriel is gone.

To be fair to Wenger, I think he has given Ox ample opportunity to prove himself. He sees himself as a central midfielder but he really doesn't have the passing ability or football brain to play there. Wide right seems tailored made for him but despite having played a lot of games there, he doesn't deliver very often. His goals scored record is really poor. He started brightly today but it soon became predictable - run at speed, maybe beating a player but don't deliver a decent pass at the end of it.

They weren't f...half chances. Have a look at his header/shoulder where totally unmarked and could not do anything. He gets paid for this. He like Walcott is not good enough at every level. Because they are English they both get a free pass from the press and supporters.

The goal was offside.

This is not directed at you but the Arsenal apologists are out everywhere today. So all those who were saying that it is only preseason are now saying the team will take a time to settle. Tell that at Man U and others.

Someone choses to play SK31 at back and guess what he is not effective. Xhaka was terrible for the 2nd game running. Last week he was responsible for at least 2 goals we conceded, this week did not do anything at all.

Two games 4 goals conceded.

Anyone who bought into Wenger 1.20 should not reply to any email they receive from Nigeria asking for money.

In Orlando on vacation(me holiday!)

Just seen the result and that ridiculous line up where many players are playing in entirely wrong position. Without commenting on the game as I didn't see it all I'll say is what I said a few weeks ago. The only interesting thing about this season for Arsenal fans is when the Wenger out stuff starts again, I may have been wrong though as I think it might be earlier than December this year. He's all over the place frankly and needs to revert back to 4-4-2 as we just don't have the right personnel

and therein lies the problem . We might ; if we got the ball forward faster .

Stoke are renowned for pumping long balls forward so why play such a cobbled together 3 man mix and match defence
Mustafi Monreal Kolasinac .......

... it's almost like Arsene's was keeping something in reserve because we are playing an important Euro midweek .

Sorry Big Guy ..... you were wrong , never mind Graham Poll with half a foot offside , Rule 11 and all that carry on

Arsene saw it 100% .. a definite on side goal ....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnQ7Z1oeyIo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAkoNDKlj3U ...... ZZZZ ........can someone please say something cheerfully .

You try something a bit different ...... back three , Bellerin forward , Ox every position bar goalie and it comes off .... Arsene is is hailed as a visionary , it doesn't he looks inept ... like today

The Cup final is an example of the former .

What he lacks is the "Hold on this aint working" gene ...and change things during a match .

Think maybe Ospina would have got down a bit quicker for their goal , Čech's big old body doesn't seem that flexible .

Basically the same team as last year. Wenger signs a guy who pretty much plays as a wide left midfielder and puts him at CB. Lacazette is a nice player but he isn't going to take us from 5th to 1st on his own.

Even I can't even be bothered to complain about the ref today, I'm bored, completely bored. Same football every season, same problems every season

Did you really expect him to "reinvent himself" ?.

Ivan clearly wanted him out but had to back down to protect his salary, then he even backed down again over the DoF job, Wenger thinks tinkering around with the team will get him back to the top, he's signed up for 2 more years of s**t of him own making.

2 Left backs at Centre back and a Right footer at Left back.. tactical genius right there.

Won't be long before the booing and banners start again and we know how Wenger doesn't like a hostile environment, damn those fans if only they all left I'd win everything I tell ye!.

Kiwi, how did you fall asleep, and yet type such a sensible post? There you go, I said something cheerfully about you

Wenger's comments:

on the game…
It’s the kind of the night where you are angry because not only did we not score with the number of chances we had, we made stupid mistakes centrally. First by losing the ball and then afterwards we didn’t defend properly for the goal. On top of that, I think we were unlucky with some of the referee’s decisions because we scored a regular goal.

At least he is not being defensive. So, what will you do about it, Wenger?

From Čech, and that defines my definition of "Toothless"

We wanted to get another three points under our belt after the great turnaround against Leicester. We wanted to keep the momentum going. I thought that we had done enough in terms of creating chances today and putting them under pressure too, but unfortunately we didn’t take those chances. The difference was that they probably had two and a half chances and scored one. We had plenty and we didn’t.

Another undefeated season passes us by. This bloke has changed & will take us forward - not in this universe. For the record the goal was offside. The ref called it as offside and blew the whistle - end of argument.

For those who can hardly wait for the introduction of video the experience in the NRL is that they still get it wrong at times and are totally inconsistent. Then you really get mad. Last night the leg & foot was offside. It was a correct decision. The fact that our manager embarrasses the club with having no understanding of the rules is irrelevant.

As soon as he starts using any of the following lines the season is over because it gives the players an excuse for failure
the referee was against us (will be dressed up in a number of different ways)
we had the better of the play
we did not deserve to lose/draw
the players are tired because of all the games (other teams players do not apparently suffer this affliction)
we were mentally strong
we are in transition
it is important that all the fans get behind the team

Only 82 points to get to our season target. Or if you like targets - 22 months and 11 days until his contract expires. By then the club will be a total basket case.

"22 months and 11 days until his contract expires. By then the club will be a total basket case"
Agree 100%

Even though it's the start of the season I wouldn't be surprised to see the banners and fan mutiny start as early as a loss in the next PL match.

I'll get things started by saying "Wenger *%^@ off"

Thanks G7 ..... and may I take this opportunity to say what a really nice perceptive bloke you are .

........ funny thing was .... I slept through the whole of the second half of the All Blacks ...which was good entertainment .

Whoopie ...where's G7 .... I've just found a positive .

It's really good we lost to Stoke , because .... No quieten down , hear me out ..... this loss can be put in the Wake Up Call basket ..... all our players will during the week chirp on Twitter , Facebook , loads of selfies
...... and we will be twice as determined next week and go out and hammer the Scousers . 0 - 4 .

Might even get in an out of contract centre half on loan .

It is now safe to sell Alexis to Man City. I think we said we would not sell him to a rival. I don't expect we will be in the same class as City.

Waiting for some enlightening comments from Hoy. Strange he hasn't been on this weekend.

I thought that too Haz, but I wouldn't put any money on one coming in.

Having said that it's a little bizarre that having let Gabriel go you would think that he is going to keep Chambers and yet he prefers to play two leftbacks at CB rather than play him. Infact, he prefers to play two leftbacks at CB than any of our actual centrebacks, what does that tell you.

Not what the evidence shows though.

Benefit of the doubt only comes in if the linesman is in doubt and cannot tell but he clearly thought he could and awarded - correctly it now turns out - an offside decision.

I don't like it any more than you do but the fact that it was so close makes *%^@ all difference. The law is unambiguous about what constitutes offside and from the evidence so far seen he was because half his foot is just in front of the defender.

It is also ridiculous for Wenger to keep saying he was onside without adducing a single argument to support that assertion and even more ridiculous to say it was an easy decision given that so many disagree with him. The means by which the Lino got it right are unknowable - guess, strong hunch, eyes like a bird of prey - but he DID get it right sadly and annoyingly for us.

Why did Wenger take Lacazette off?. Surely, if you need a goal desperately then you keep on the supposed best finisher we have in the team.