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Post #495321  Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 7:03 am 
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Bernard wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
Just read that Gabriel Jesus offer from us provides a wage per week of 280k quid ish. This makes him our best paid player by miles on more than Kane per week.

No way he isn’t turning up at Arsenal now. It makes other transfers unfeasible. If it’s right or wrong is another thing

Apparently Jesus was on £90k a week at Manchester City. So if Arsenal are going to pay him £280k per week, that’s more than three times the salary he was on there? £190k (£280k - £90k) a week is nearly £10m (£9.88m) a year more than he was on City, the Premier League’s big spenders in recent years. Like you I can’t see him turning that down, if your figures are correct.

Harry Kane is on £200k a week, so we’ll be paying Gabriel Jesus £80k a week more than Tottenham pay Kane. That’s nearly £4.2m (£4.16m) a year more than Kane gets, who is arguably the best centre forward in the world.

If he isn’t a rip roaring success, Jesus will be another player we’ll struggle to get rid of. Let’s hope he is or Arteta and Edu will surely have questions to answer.


Hi Bernard,

That's crazy money for a player who still doesn't really know his best position. Is he a wide forward or is he a no.9, history suggests more of a wide forward.

I get the bit where it enables us to have a fluid attack, a la City, with the front three all interchangeable but it seems far too much for a player with a lot still to prove.


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Post #495322  Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 7:06 am 
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Can anyone explain the rationale behind making this bid for Raphina so public?. We've obviously fed the info to our resident mouthpiece David Ornstein but how does making the info public help us?


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Post #495323  Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 7:20 am 
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Post #495324  Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 7:46 am 
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socrates wrote:
Can anyone explain the rationale behind making this bid for Raphina so public?. We've obviously fed the info to our resident mouthpiece David Ornstein but how does making the info public help us?


I think the reason the club does this is to literally make the player and his agents aware the club have made a formal offer. If the player is pushing his club for a move it adds more pressure to the situation if he’s aware the clubs interest is very public . If you have an unwilling negotiator it kind of adds more pressure.

I can’t see that one happening personally. Tielemans similar, can you see Leicester selling us their best midfielder for just 25 million I can’t, you have an arrogant manager and an owner that doesn’t sell cheaply.


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Post #495325  Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 7:48 am 
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Rich wrote:
Ornstein has reported an official bid has been made by Arsenal for Raphinha. It is expected to be rejected as its well below Leeds’ valuation

Saw a report that the offer was for £50m. Wonder what the hell Leeds’ valuation is if that falls ‘well below’ according to Ornstein?


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Post #495326  Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 7:55 am 
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socrates wrote:
Bernard wrote:
Apparently Jesus was on £90k a week at Manchester City. So if Arsenal are going to pay him £280k per week, that’s more than three times the salary he was on there? £190k (£280k - £90k) a week is nearly £10m (£9.88m) a year more than he was on City, the Premier League’s big spenders in recent years. Like you I can’t see him turning that down, if your figures are correct.

Harry Kane is on £200k a week, so we’ll be paying Gabriel Jesus £80k a week more than Tottenham pay Kane. That’s nearly £4.2m (£4.16m) a year more than Kane gets, who is arguably the best centre forward in the world.

If he isn’t a rip roaring success, Jesus will be another player we’ll struggle to get rid of. Let’s hope he is or Arteta and Edu will surely have questions to answer.


Hi Bernard,

That's crazy money for a player who still doesn't really know his best position. Is he a wide forward or is he a no.9, history suggests more of a wide forward.

I get the bit where it enables us to have a fluid attack, a la City, with the front three all interchangeable but it seems far too much for a player with a lot still to prove.


Also the report says his salary goes up by another million per annum if we qualify for the champions league. That’s huge money. I think it makes him the second or third highest paid Arsenal player of all time behind Özil and Aubameyang.

No wonder the player is so keen on the move. Him and his agent probably can’t believe it. The club can be certain of his arrival offering that type of contract. I doubt he would have got offered more than 2 thirds of that elsewhere. Saka needs to have a word about his salary now.


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Post #495327  Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 8:00 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
socrates wrote:
Can anyone explain the rationale behind making this bid for Raphina so public?. We've obviously fed the info to our resident mouthpiece David Ornstein but how does making the info public help us?


I think the reason the club does this is to literally make the player and his agents aware the club have made a formal offer. If the player is pushing his club for a move it adds more pressure to the situation if he’s aware the clubs interest is very public . If you have an unwilling negotiator it kind of adds more pressure.

I can’t see that one happening personally. Tielemans similar, can you see Leicester selling us their best midfielder for just 25 million I can’t, you have an arrogant manager and an owner that doesn’t sell cheaply.


Can't they just call or text the agent and let him now we've bid?

I can't see it happening, either, I think at his age he will be wanting CL football and rightly so, it's a short career.

We seemed to have cooled on Tielemans, are we waiting for an offer for another player to be accepted or declined?


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Post #495328  Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 8:03 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
socrates wrote:

Hi Bernard,

That's crazy money for a player who still doesn't really know his best position. Is he a wide forward or is he a no.9, history suggests more of a wide forward.

I get the bit where it enables us to have a fluid attack, a la City, with the front three all interchangeable but it seems far too much for a player with a lot still to prove.


Also the report says his salary goes up by another million per annum if we qualify for the champions league. That’s huge money. I think it makes him the second or third highest paid Arsenal player of all time behind Özil and Aubameyang.

No wonder the player is so keen on the move. Him and his agent probably can’t believe it. The club can be certain of his arrival offering that type of contract. I doubt he would have got offered more than 2 thirds of that elsewhere. Saka needs to have a word about his salary now.


It must be bullshite because ther rest of the players will be well pissed off with that kind of salary. Different if you are signing a genuine worldclass talent who will win you trophies.


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Post #495329  Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 8:03 am 
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socrates wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:

I think the reason the club does this is to literally make the player and his agents aware the club have made a formal offer. If the player is pushing his club for a move it adds more pressure to the situation if he’s aware the clubs interest is very public . If you have an unwilling negotiator it kind of adds more pressure.

I can’t see that one happening personally. Tielemans similar, can you see Leicester selling us their best midfielder for just 25 million I can’t, you have an arrogant manager and an owner that doesn’t sell cheaply.


Can't they just call or text the agent and let him now we've bid?

I can't see it happening, either, I think at his age he will be wanting CL football and rightly so, it's a short career.

I think it just adds more pressure on the seller. If leeds are digging their heels in about the price it kind throws up in the air the player wants to move and situation needs resolving. Then phase 2 where a compromise is reached.

I’d love us to get him though. I think he would start every game


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Post #495330  Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 8:03 am 
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warrior wrote:


That's a :58big-emoticons: from me.

Well done that man.

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Post #495331  Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 8:05 am 
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socrates wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:

Also the report says his salary goes up by another million per annum if we qualify for the champions league. That’s huge money. I think it makes him the second or third highest paid Arsenal player of all time behind Özil and Aubameyang.

No wonder the player is so keen on the move. Him and his agent probably can’t believe it. The club can be certain of his arrival offering that type of contract. I doubt he would have got offered more than 2 thirds of that elsewhere. Saka needs to have a word about his salary now.


It must be bullshite because ther rest of the players will be well pissed off with that kind of salary. Different if you are signing a genuine worldclass talent who will win you trophies.

Id be surprised if it’s not true honestly. Football is ridiculous with money and those types of transfers seem driven by who offers the most skrilla


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Post #495332  Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 8:08 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
socrates wrote:

It must be bullshite because ther rest of the players will be well pissed off with that kind of salary. Different if you are signing a genuine worldclass talent who will win you trophies.

Id be surprised if it’s not true honestly. Football is ridiculous with money and those types of transfers seem driven by who offers the most skrilla


Maybe. Bernard made a good point, it could be another Özil situation if it doesn't work out and we are left with a player on so much money we can't shift him.

£50m might seem a good price but a massive salary kind of negates that a bit.


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Post #495333  Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 8:11 am 
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Bernard wrote:
Rich wrote:
Ornstein has reported an official bid has been made by Arsenal for Raphinha. It is expected to be rejected as its well below Leeds’ valuation

Saw a report that the offer was for £50m. Wonder what the hell Leeds’ valuation is if that falls ‘well below’ according to Ornstein?

We paid £50m for Ben White last year, an uncapped centre back. Raphinha has played and scored in some of Brazil's world cup qualifiers in the past 12 months. He's also a flashy player which inevitably increases the fee.

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Post #495334  Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 8:15 am 
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dec wrote:
Bernard wrote:
Saw a report that the offer was for £50m. Wonder what the hell Leeds’ valuation is if that falls ‘well below’ according to Ornstein?

We paid £50m for Ben White last year, an uncapped centre back. Raphinha has played and scored in some of Brazil's world cup qualifiers in the past 12 months. He's also a flashy player which inevitably increases the fee.


Hi dec,

Only one year left on his deal though.


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Post #495335  Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 8:16 am 
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socrates wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
Id be surprised if it’s not true honestly. Football is ridiculous with money and those types of transfers seem driven by who offers the most skrilla


Maybe. Bernard made a good point, it could be another Özil situation if it doesn't work out and we are left with a player on so much money we can't shift him.

£50m might seem a good price but a massive salary kind of negates that a bit.

Hi Soc,

That salary is well above what Jesus is worth. I know lots of people rate him, but I'm not convinced at all. Also, if we do sign him and with Vieira and the links to Raphinha, I think we are looking to play like Man City with Jesus being more of a false 9 than a centre forward. Not something I would be excited about.

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Post #495336  Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 8:18 am 
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socrates wrote:
dec wrote:
We paid £50m for Ben White last year, an uncapped centre back. Raphinha has played and scored in some of Brazil's world cup qualifiers in the past 12 months. He's also a flashy player which inevitably increases the fee.


Hi dec,

Only one year left on his deal though.

Forgot about that. It certainly makes a big difference.

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Post #495337  Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 9:38 am 
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Gaz from Oz wrote:
warrior wrote:
With a name like Vieira can he be any good though ?

I suggest you not ask a question about a name like Jesus. Because there is a history of that story not going well.

He could be the man for a waterlogged pitch?

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Post #495338  Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 9:43 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
...Football is ridiculous with money and those types of transfers seem driven by who offers the most skrilla
Yes, clubs are not short of sugar these days. I don't blame any player getting as much as he can.

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Post #495339  Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 10:30 am 
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old man of hoy wrote:
Gaz from Oz wrote:
I suggest you not ask a question about a name like Jesus. Because there is a history of that story not going well.

He could be the man for a waterlogged pitch?

? Bit like Steve Williams , sodden drenched downcast waterlogged leading us off after a 1-0 loss v York City in God Knows when 83 ? Having said that I liked Steve Williams he was a top of the line midfielder in the Souness Ball Hibbit Mackay Gemmill mould ... talented provider and a bit of a hard arse .
Par for the course I guess in those days when men were men These days the recipient copping a kick in the shin ; does five hundred forward rolls screaming and clutching his throat .


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Post #495340  Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 10:43 am 
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old man of hoy wrote:
I don't blame any player getting as much as he can.

What sort of values have you got you Old Poofter ... Elvis Presley Johnny Cash Roy Orbison should desert Sam Phillips when some label offered $30 more a week

No wonder the world has gone to cack when you espouse such values ... we should applaud guys like Tony Adams Billy Bonds Matt Le Tisseur blokes who could have gone somewhere but stayed .


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Post #495341  Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 10:54 am 
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kiwipete wrote:
old man of hoy wrote:
He could be the man for a waterlogged pitch?
? Bit like Steve Williams , sodden drenched downcast waterlogged leading us off after a 1-0 loss v York City in God Knows when 83 ? Having said that I liked Steve Williams he was a top of the line midfielder in the Souness Ball Hibbit Mackay Gemmill mould ... talented provider and a bit of a hard arse . Par for the course I guess in those days when men were men These days the recipient copping a kick in the shin ; does five hundred forward rolls screaming and clutching his throat .
Hi Kiwi - yes a lot has changed since we saw our first Arsenal match. Overall it is good that the skillful guys are more protected than before - imagine how many more goals Pele would have scored if freed from the hatchet men, who I also enjoyed greatly - Hunter, Bremner, Smith, Chopper Harris, but Storey remains one of my favourites - cold-eyed like Lauren but with a better record - prison that is.

Williams played in an era when football was a lower priority for me, so didn't see him much. Not sure, but I think Bernard rates him.

Enjoy this from Joe and the ladies.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dghT8X2kD30

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Post #495342  Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 11:09 am 
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kiwipete wrote:
old man of hoy wrote:
I don't blame any player getting as much as he can.

What sort of values have you got you Old Poofter ... Elvis Presley Johnny Cash Roy Orbison should desert Sam Phillips when some label offered $30 more a week. No wonder the world has gone to cack when you espouse such values ... we should applaud guys like Tony Adams Billy Bonds Matt Le Tisseur blokes who could have gone somewhere but stayed .
I do agree about those players you mention - all genuine icons of the clubs they represented and true giants. Sometimes see Billy at Bluewater Shopping Centr, where he is always approached by Hammers fans for a chat, which he is happy to do. I would add Elliott Bradbrook and the Immortal Danny Harris to the list - both turned down Bernabeu to stay at Princes Park, the Home of Football.

Difference between now and then is that the whole of the top-level of the game is marinaded in money - everyone is on the gravy train, so I have to back the players getting their share.

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Post #495343  Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 11:38 am 
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kiwipete wrote:

? Bit like Steve Williams , sodden drenched downcast waterlogged leading us off after a 1-0 loss v York City in God Knows when 83 ?


Errr....it was 1985 and the pitch was rock hard due to sub-zero weather conditions.

Steve Williams did play but he wasn't Captain. The score was indeed 1-0 to York.

2 out of 5 facts correct, so 40% right - not bad for you KP.


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Post #495344  Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 12:22 pm 
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socrates wrote:
Can anyone explain the rationale behind making this bid for Raphina so public?. We've obviously fed the info to our resident mouthpiece David Ornstein but how does making the info public help us?

We might be trying to get someone else and this is deflection to either drive the price down make people look away from the real target.

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Post #495345  Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 12:24 pm 
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DHD wrote:
kiwipete wrote:

? Bit like Steve Williams , sodden drenched downcast waterlogged leading us off after a 1-0 loss v York City in God Knows when 83 ?


Errr....it was 1985 and the pitch was rock hard due to sub-zero weather conditions.

Steve Williams did play but he wasn't Captain. The score was indeed 1-0 to York.

2 out of 5 facts correct, so 40% right - not bad for you KP.

:laughing7: you looked it up you poser ...no way your memory recalled that https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pw3CemSTctA


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Post #495346  Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 12:29 pm 
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old man of hoy wrote:
Gaz from Oz wrote:
I suggest you not ask a question about a name like Jesus. Because there is a history of that story not going well.

He could be the man for a waterlogged pitch?

:laughing7: :laughing7:

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Post #495347  Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 12:35 pm 
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old man of hoy wrote:
kiwipete wrote:
What sort of values have you got you Old Poofter ... Elvis Presley Johnny Cash Roy Orbison should desert Sam Phillips when some label offered $30 more a week. No wonder the world has gone to cack when you espouse such values ... we should applaud guys like Tony Adams Billy Bonds Matt Le Tisseur blokes who could have gone somewhere but stayed .
I do agree about those players you mention - all genuine icons of the clubs they represented and true giants. Sometimes see Billy at Bluewater Shopping Centr, where he is always approached by Hammers fans for a chat, which he is happy to do. I would add Elliott Bradbrook and the Immortal Danny Harris to the list - both turned down Bernabeu to stay at Princes Park, the Home of Football.

Difference between now and then is that the whole of the top-level of the game is marinaded in money - everyone is on the gravy train, so I have to back the players getting their share.

footballers and gravy train ... should a Lacazette or Özil be getting twenty times more a week wandering around producing f***ck all than the guy who repairs your ruptured water pipe not in my book . Danny Harris ? you mean Chopper ...

Have this to get on with ...... I never liked him , trying to sound like Eddie Cochrane https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ewev8c-zNl8


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Post #495348  Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 12:59 pm 
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DHD wrote:
kiwipete wrote:
? Bit like Steve Williams , sodden drenched downcast waterlogged leading us off after a 1-0 loss v York City in God Knows when 83 ?


Errr....it was 1985 and the pitch was rock hard due to sub-zero weather conditions.

Steve Williams did play but he wasn't Captain. The score was indeed 1-0 to York.

2 out of 5 facts correct, so 40% right - not bad for you KP.

Me and my brother went to that game at York. From memory Keith Houchen scored their winner with a penalty. I’m sure he scored for Coventry in their 1987 cup final win against Tottenham so I forgave him for it.


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Post #495349  Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 1:05 pm 
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Gunfire wrote:
socrates wrote:
Can anyone explain the rationale behind making this bid for Raphina so public?. We've obviously fed the info to our resident mouthpiece David Ornstein but how does making the info public help us?

We might be trying to get someone else and this is deflection to either drive the price down make people look away from the real target.

Or I’ve read that Barca are Raphinha’s preferred choice and even Chelsea might be interested and ahead of us. If we suspect we’ll get outbid by those two we make our pursuit quite load to force them to come to the table or not. If they don’t Raphinha knows they aren’t interested in him, if they do and he chooses them then we can move on to other targets rather than sitting around waiting for CL clubs to do their bidding and trying to pick up what’s left.


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Post #495350  Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 1:07 pm 
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kiwipete wrote:
footballers and gravy train ... should a Lacazette or Özil be getting twenty times more a week wandering around producing f***ck all than the guy who repairs your ruptured water pipe not in my book . Danny Harris ? you mean Chopper ...

Have this to get on with ...... I never liked him , trying to sound like Eddie Cochrane https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ewev8c-zNl8
Very good track - I love that guitar sound. As you say Cochraneish, which can't be bad.

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Post #495351  Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 2:19 pm 
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kiwipete wrote:
DHD wrote:

Errr....it was 1985 and the pitch was rock hard due to sub-zero weather conditions.

Steve Williams did play but he wasn't Captain. The score was indeed 1-0 to York.

2 out of 5 facts correct, so 40% right - not bad for you KP.

:laughing7: you looked it up you poser ...no way your memory recalled that https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pw3CemSTctA


I remember it quite well actually KP, in particular the way the ball bounced like a golf ball hitting concrete. The only thing I had to look up was who was Captain - Kenny Samson.

Thanks for the link though, painful as it was to watch it all again. It was pretty obvious that our lot just didn't fancy it. Unfortunately, York did.


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Post #495352  Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 3:05 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Just read that Gabriel Jesus offer from us provides a wage per week of 280k quid ish. This makes him our best paid player by miles on more than Kane per week.

No way he isn’t turning up at Arsenal now. It makes other transfers unfeasible. If it’s right or wrong is another thing

How much! Has the prospect of distorting the squad, and has shades of Özil and Aubameyang about it.

Three times as much as he got at Man City, and a mega transfer fee too. Not great optics.

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Post #495353  Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 3:09 pm 
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kiwipete wrote:
old man of hoy wrote:
He could be the man for a waterlogged pitch?

? Bit like Steve Williams , sodden drenched downcast waterlogged leading us off after a 1-0 loss v York City in God Knows when 83 ? Having said that I liked Steve Williams he was a top of the line midfielder in the Souness Ball Hibbit Mackay Gemmill mould ... talented provider and a bit of a hard arse .
Par for the course I guess in those days when men were men These days the recipient copping a kick in the shin ; does five hundred forward rolls screaming and clutching his throat .

Eh?

Not my recollection, and I was at that game. Bone dry, freezing cold, and like a skating rink.

EDIT I see from other replies that Kiwi’s erroneous memory has been commented upon.

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Post #495354  Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 3:27 pm 
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long time gooner wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
Just read that Gabriel Jesus offer from us provides a wage per week of 280k quid ish. This makes him our best paid player by miles on more than Kane per week.

No way he isn’t turning up at Arsenal now. It makes other transfers unfeasible. If it’s right or wrong is another thing

How much! Has the prospect of distorting the squad, and has shades of Özil and Aubameyang about it.

Three times as much as he got at Man City, and a mega transfer fee too. Not great optics.


They ain’t cheap strikers

He’s leaving a champions league title winning club to join us ! It had to be attractive

Btw I did something similar once and asked a new company to increase my salary by a third to join them. They obliged. Don’t ask don’t get is my motto !!!


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Post #495355  Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 3:47 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
long time gooner wrote:
How much! Has the prospect of distorting the squad, and has shades of Özil and Aubameyang about it.

Three times as much as he got at Man City, and a mega transfer fee too. Not great optics.


They ain’t cheap strikers

He’s leaving a champions league title winning club to join us ! It had to be attractive

Btw I did something similar once and asked a new company to increase my salary by a third to join them. They obliged. Don’t ask don’t get is my motto !!!

Is he a striker though? Is it worth upsetting the balance of pay?

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Post #495356  Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 4:00 pm 
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long time gooner wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:

They ain’t cheap strikers

He’s leaving a champions league title winning club to join us ! It had to be attractive

Btw I did something similar once and asked a new company to increase my salary by a third to join them. They obliged. Don’t ask don’t get is my motto !!!

Is he a striker though? Is it worth upsetting the balance of pay?

For him personally absolutely :laughing7:

He’s better than what we had last season and impressed in several games toward the end for city. He doesn’t look a transformational signing aka world class but he does move the needle.the alternative seems spending 85 million on Abraham or The Napoli bloke who will also ask for the same money. Filthy business, wish I was a footballer


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Post #495357  Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 4:37 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
long time gooner wrote:
How much! Has the prospect of distorting the squad, and has shades of Özil and Aubameyang about it.

Three times as much as he got at Man City, and a mega transfer fee too. Not great optics.

Btw I did something similar once and asked a new company to increase my salary by a third to join them. They obliged. Don’t ask don’t get is my motto !!!

Not quite the same. Increasing your salary by a third is a 33.33% raise. If Jesus is going up from £90k to £280k a week, as LTG implied as a ball park figure that’s over three times more than he got at City. It actually represents a pay increase for him of 311.11%, not 33.33%z


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Post #495358  Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 5:20 pm 
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Assuming it is true and going to happen. I'm worried about Jesus coming with a huge wage package. We have been burnt 3 times already with this scenario.

And echo those who worry about the balance of pay in the club.

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Post #495359  Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 6:03 pm 
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Leeds want close to £65M for Raphinha it seems. So Arsenal do want both Jesus and Raphinha.
Plot thickens.

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Post #495360  Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 6:15 pm 
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Zed wrote:
Leeds want close to £65M for Raphinha it seems. So Arsenal do want both Jesus and Raphinha.
Plot thickens.

I am getting increasingly concerned about our play being too one dimensional. The best sides often have a clear balance between players of different types. If we get these players, it looks a bit ‘all the same’. One could say peak Barcelona were an exception. Yet we don’t have players comparable to Messi, Iniesta and Xavi. Even they had Busquets in midfield.


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