Perhaps you cant blame it all on him, but Kroenke is ultimately in charge of Arsenal and the decline has been happening under his stewardship. Its his repsonsiblity to find the right people to run Arsenal.

American, it is primarily Fiszman’s fault that Kroenke owns Arsenal, because when on his death bed he basically handed control of the club to Stan.

Exactly right Bored. I said something very much along those lines, but used many more lines to say it than you did.

Guendouzi has escaped a ban

There was a discussion the other day about the relative wealth of Kroenke and John Henry and of course, Kroenke is much richer. There was also mention of the portfolios of sporting enterprises that both men control. This is where more differences emerge - Henry owns about 40% of Fenway Sports Group (FSG) but Kroenke owns all of Kroenke Sports and Entertainment (KSE).

FSG own Boston Red Sox and Liverpool outright but they only have an interest in a couple of other lower league outfits. KSE own outright LA Rams, Denver Nuggets, Colorado Avalanche, Colorado Rapids and Arsenal plus a few other smaller clubs. But Kroenke's wealth doesn't stop there. He owns almost a million acres worth of ranches plus 20 million sq ft of malls and plazas associated with Walmart stores.

Notwithstanding the Red Sox's success recently, Liverpool are probably the biggest asset that FSG own - a big fish in a small pool. But sport is just one facet of the Kroenke empire and Arsenal are just one of several major assets on the sporting front. In that sense, we may still be a decent sized fish but we're in a massive bloody lake. It's no real wonder that our decline seems to pass un-noticed; I can't see that changing.

We few, we happy few...

Thanks. I’ll try that. I think, though, that I did try the Red button during the match and simply got offered the other match that was on at the same time. Perhaps it works when there’s only one game?

First bit of luck that we’ve had in the restart - I think.

I don't think you'll find any horny handed sons of toil anywhere in the Premier League anymore! It is the gravy train of all gravy trains, and everybody on the playing and managerial side at all clubs are riding first class, even unproven youths. I have no brief for Kroenke at all but your point about the recent investment is well made.

Impressed every time I see Foden play for City. No wonder Pep has said he doesn't need to buy a replacement when Silva leaves at the end of this season. The kid should be first choice midfielder for England as well I think.

Chelsea signed Mario Pasalic (who?) 6 years ago for £2.5m, he's never played for Chelsea, he's been on loan to 5 different clubs and they've just sold him £14.4m and they'd already got their original money back in loan fees from various clubs.
Good business.
I think UEFA need to bring in rules that govern how many players you can have out on loan during a season, it would stop this hoarding of players, which if you're taking nominal loan fees and not paying the players wages is such low risk.

I know Bernard’s a huge fan but I don’t see it with Guenzouzi. Stuff like this needs nipping in the bud.

I just don’t see how anyone can’t rate him. Good passer, generally picks the right pass, massive energy and competes. Things to learn about the game but that should come with experience. I also thought him grabbing that Brighton player round the throat was the nearest one of our players got to doing what Rich was saying we should have been doing during the game. His wind up of the opposition even reminds me a bit of Steve Williams and Paul Davis. I can’t give anyone higher praise than that.

Arteta has been criticized but no where close to what I thought he'd be. He still seems to be the right man for the job but part of me is starting to think the problem is too big right now.

Real Madrid and Barcelona have had election fights, etc, but no matter what, they are committed to winning trophies.

There is something, not sure exactly, but something endemic within the club that hinders success at the moment.

We will be mediocre for a while https://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/arsenal-average-years-unless-major-22236306

The rest of the season looks like a wash. It will likely end in our worst finish since the '90s. I am waiting to see some sense of direction from the club. A plan. I see us chasing all kinds of transfer targets with no plan. I really don't see the logic to keep chasing expensive attack players with the way our central defense and defensive midfield is these days.

Guendouzi is still only 21, young and still has upside potential but he should be a back up. He should be under the wing of a quality, experienced starter. He hasn't progressed in 2 years. Which side(s) can our defenders walk into? Any of them? You will have to go deep into the 2nd half of the table to make any credible argument.

I am curious to see how our defenders do in training against Lacazette, Aubameyang, Martinelli, etc. If they are holding their own then why aren't we seeing them do it against worse attackers than them? And what I suspect is true, they aren't, why isn't there more of a sense of urgency in spending big on a defender? We have a player on loan at Roma. From what I understand they would like to keep him, why aren't we after Smalling or someone else there? Surely they gotta be better than what we have? Specifically Mustafi.

What do you count as end product? Goals and assists? If so I don’t think that’s any reliable measure for midfielders other than the creative ones. Midfields need balance between different types of players, not just the sexy stuff like goals and assists. A midfield with only four or five Özil replicas in it (depending on whether you’re playing with one or two forwards), even when at his peak, would be overrun in many and I would suggest probably most games. Perhaps even all games.

Regarding your last sentence/paragraph, the owner has never crossed your mind then?

If suspicions that Mustafi has shagged your girlfriend (to use Bromley’s terminology) are correct, you have to try and get over it rather than let it ruin the rest of your life. That type of thing happens in many relationships. There must be counsellors in your area who specialise in that kind of issue. Maybe it’s time to see one?

The Guendouzi love in is bizarre, I like his fighting attitude but somebody must see something in him I don’t.

I see a very similar situation to when Francis Coquelin broke through, a physical trier with fighting attitude that came into the side looking different to our other players however was really short technically of what’s needed to play in midfield at this level. No mobility or athleticism or enough technical ability. He reminds me a bit of Robbie Savage and it’s not just the hair, running around the pitch dog chasing the ball but not contributing to the process of moving the ball up the pitch.

But he had a better game than Ceballos. He is okay for a mid table team. A lot more players in the squad are lower down the list than him.

You might be right about Ceballos Saturday but I don’t rate him either. I think Alan Davies summed him up well on last weeks Tuesday club when he said he was an energetic midfielder who produces little.

At the moment despite the defence being a mess there is no higher priority than the dysfunctional midfield. There is a Grand Canyon that sits between our midfield and attack, we have no possession, no counter attack and no out ball.

We all know xhakas flaws but have to acknowledge at least he can move the ball more incisively than the rest.

Smalling isn’t Roma’s player to offer as part of any exchange.

When Xhaka has played 90 mins under Arteta, 9 games zero defeats, 4 clean sheets and an average of a goal a game against
When Xhaka hasn’t played 90 mins under Arteta 3 defeats, zero clean sheets and a goal conceded every 34 mins

Xhaka is flawed but is easily our most important midfielder at the moment

Everton, Burnley, Newcastle all have very winnable games this midweek, if we lose to Southampton and they all win we'll be level on points with Southampton and drop behind all 3 of these which would put us 13th

Yeah, thanks, he's on loan from Man Utd so why not try a 3 way deal? Something. Another player. I have to believe they have better.

...and that isn't scary?

Anyone know which players have Covid 19

https://news.pindula.co.zw/2020/06/23/arsenal-player-tests-positive-for-coronavirus/

I think Guendouzi does move the ball around the pitch, and pretty damn effectively. Doesn’t he make on average 48.25 passes per game? If so, that’s moving the ball around the pitch. I just don’t get this hate in, or whatever the opposite of love in is, some have for him. Not the finished product yet, but the potential in my view is there for him to be a true great.

As I implied before, some are too obsessed with goals and assists for midfielders. The sexy things. But a midfield with only Özil types, even when he was at his peak, would be a nightmare. Midfields need balance with a variety of jobs done by different players. It would be wonderful to find a single player with Brady’s creativity, Petit’s defensive awareness, Vieira’s physical presence and tackling, Overmars’ pace, Hudson’s passing, Ljungberg’s finishing, Wiltord’s work rate and Guendouzi’s energy. Vieira is the best midfielder I’ve seen at Arsenal, but even he didn’t have Brady’s creativity or Hudson’s passing. But if there ever has been one, I’ve not seen him. Even Iniesta and Xavi needed Busquets.

Creativity is not the only thing required. Nor is ball winning, or any other single quality. Also, to be fair, Guendouzi does create opportunities for others to use the ball in dangerous positions.

Rich, no point in getting stressed about our results or league position for the rest of this car crash of a season mate. We're *%^@, plain and simple. 13th sounds about right, maybe even lower. Just be grateful we won 3 on the bounce before lockdown cos without those 9 points we really would be in bother.

We can only hope that lots of deadwood can be got rid of for the start of next season, whenever that is.

You make a good point on good midfielders not having to have goals and assists. For example Liverpool's midfield 3 don't have many goals/assists between them this season whichever of them plays. Their style is a functional, disciplined midfield, assists come from full backs and goals and more assists come from a fluid and dynamic front 3. Throw a few set piece goals from CB and they've created a very effective system without any end product from a midfield 3.

Guendouzi is suffering from having to grow and learn in the team without a mentor or chaperone. Nearly all our younger players are in the same position. Which makes it all the more remarkable when players like Saka and Martinelli seem to still be able to produce and thrive in such difficult circumstances.

I'm happy to persevere with Guendouzi but there are aspects to his game that he can improve on and off the training pitch. But equally if silly money was thrown at us for him and we could replace him for a similar amount of money with someone like Ndidi (only 2 years older) I would do it as I think the club would benefit overall. We need to balance sort term gain and long term goals on a restricted budget.

I would buy Ndidi to play with Guendouzi. I would sell Xhaka or Torreira before Guendouzi.

I’ll be interested to see if Saka and Martinelli develop from their bright starts. Sadly, I’m not convinced we’ll get the opportunity to see that at Arsenal with Saka. His contract ends next year and I’ve seen he’s showing little enthusiasm for extending it. I hope he does but if he doesn’t and we lose him, for all the negativity I currently feel about Kroenke’s ownership, it’ll be doubled.

"I earn more than you EVER will! Matteo Guendouzi tastelessly taunted 's***' Brighton players over money earlier in defeat before £40k-a-week midfielder grabbed the throat of Neal Maupay at full-time"

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... money.html

Hmmmm

If true the *%^@*** idiot should be dropped for our next match

Must say I can't get too bent out of shape over this as I imagine the Brighton players are not on the bones of their arses. Maybe not Guendozi-rich, and certainly not to be compared with your own mega-salary, but they won't be needing a food bank to get through the week.

Of course Guendozi's alleged comments tell us a lot about the game today - time was when reference to trophies and caps won would have been the taunt. Its all about the money now!

Recommend this weeks new Tuesday club.

Davies goes in a comprehensive and totally nailed on rant right from the start about everything going wrong at Arsenal. Tragically funny and more concise about our problems than any pundit or journalist.

It's the arrogance of it. If I saw or heard that a player at another club had said that I'd think he's a tosser. Concentrate on winning the match, you can count your money afterwards.

Exactly so.

Indeed it is arrogant, but I can't help smiling that a group of rich men (by any normal standards) could consider a taunt about money worthy of public comment. In two hours the poorest paid member of that Brighton side had probably earned more than most of their fans earn in six months. Guendozi may be a *%^@, but the Brighton boys seem to have lost some perspective too by not leaving it all in the stadium. With millions of people just about making do these days any reference to money can be highly charged.

Did anyone see Guendouzi grabbing Moupay by the throat? Wasn't it just a gentle flick that hardly made contact?

If not then the quote could just as easily have been made up to justify the actions of Moupay.

I think Maupay is a *%^@ too. What seems to have been ignored amongst all the outrage of why Guendouzi didn't get a ban is Maupay appealing for a handball for Leno taking the ball outside the area when the poor guy was lying there in agony with a shattered knee. No waving to get a physio on, just appealing to the ref. Very classy.

But I don't want to see or hear of an Arsenal player waving his money around during a match. It stinks. Leave that *%^@ to the likes of Robbie Savage.