Couldn’t agree more socrates.

No worries Bernard I saw your correction before the reply so I knew what was what. I think you can swing it either way. Once I get going on what’s bad at the club you start getting momentum and we’ll never win a game of any real significance ever again as we’re just being left behind, but when you start to list the positives and what could be, after one win it all feels quite different. I think the thing is the bad is here and the good isn’t.

I think things can get better than they are and Kreonke isn’t going to stop that, but I do think as you say he lacks the real desire for success to impose that helpfully on the club for us to be actual challengers again. I think there’s a crater to fill and I don’t know how we’re going to do it. As players like Saka leaving, which looks to be pretty likely at this point, just digs us further in. You look at how many millions Utd threw at the problem and how long it’s taken them to just get where they are now which is questionable to say the least.

I think there’s more than one owner model to be successful, I’m not saying Kreonke’s is that, but he’s hardly a destructive force at the club, he’s just absent.

I’m sure this will cheer you up then
“Manchester United join race to sign Arsenal misfit Matteo Guendouzi”

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... douzi.html

Watching the showering of praise, quite rightly, Klopp is getting right now for turning Liverpool in to European champions and title winners has me thinking back to when wenger came and did the same for us.
The transfers, the vision, buying in to the culture, that connection with the fans, galvanising everyone to pull in the same direction, the humility, the passion, the style and swagger of the team. Makes it quite nostalgic to when wenger first arrived.
Of all of that listed above I think the greatest thing Klopp did was instill that togetherness and belief. He immediately understood what it meant to be Liverpudlian and/or a Liverpool fan. He tapped in to it and stirred the emotion.
He has done a fantastic job there. Yes he added the final pieces to the jigsaw with some expensive proven signings but the way he’s taken players and developed his system that they follow religiously has been impressive.

Please no, as if this year hasn’t been bad enough. I hate Liverpool and they’re the least hateable winners for a decade. it’s just inconsiderate is what it is.

If I can ignore all the adulation I might just survive the week.

Agree. And if I was his agent I would be agitating for him to move. Even to a team who may be in the CL next season even if they are just to hope for a round 16 performance. That was once us.

Watch out they will want to give us another of their long line of very poor players we have never got anything from

Interesting to note the clubs they say are after Guendouzi: Manchester United, Barcelona, PSG and Inter Milan. What a bunch of minnows. No hopers little better than Barnet, Wycombe Wanderers, Halifax Town and Darlington. Shows what a rubbish player he must be.

Guendozi: Clearly talented, lots of stamina, very comfortable on the ball, plays football with an attitude and spirit which is something that has often been missing from our players, very young with the potential to get even better. On the downside, he isn't quick, he cant head the ball, he appears to be a bit positionally undisciplined, and he is hot headed and annoying. Also, one journalist said its not uncommon for him to fall out with his coaches.
Personally, I would persist with him until the point where its clear its not going to work out, but if he wants to go then he leaves on our terms, meaning a whopping transfer fee. He may be simply be a poor fit for Arsenal at the moment.

Yes - This a great doco - Thanx !

Absolutely no chance he’s going to Barcelona or United. Simply not happening. Not on your nelly they wouldn’t touch him with a barge pole

Might be able to sell him to a French club if they don’t do their due diligence

I remember something about him not liking bananas because they are yellow, despite the fact that the part of the banana that one actually eats is whitish, but he does like Bananarama. All very odd.

My memory must also be playing tricks on me.

I would agree with you: yellow isn't a good colour on cars or male clothing. Tacky.

When you dislike a player, you start talking utter cobblers. I certainly think it’s feasible United and Barcelona might want him if their scouts have better memories than you.

PSG is interested.

Hi OMOH, although I take your point re Luiz, and respect the career he's had and the player he once was, I used the word clown to describe the player we see on the pitch now. Which is basically a mistake waiting to happen. If he is a good influence at the club and can be a help in the next 12 months to the talented young players Arsenal undoubtedly have, then fair enough. But the less we see of him on the pitch, the better as far as I'm concerned.

United have Fernandes, Pogba, Matic, Fred, McTominay, Pereira and Mata along with a few kids. Guendouzi is a squad player there, not first 11.

Barca are rumoured to be doing a big clear-out. They have agreed a ridiculous £70m+ fee for Artur to go to Juve so who knows what their plans are. I don't see Guendouzi's speed of thought fitting in there but you wouldn't know. If he goes to any big team it is likely to be PSG.

I think the timing is a factor. Apart from Luiz we have two fit centre backs for the rest of the season unless you throw Medley in the mix. Luiz was never going to sign for only a couple of months.

No chance Bernard. Absolutely no chance.

PSG maybe because of his nationality and their endless pot of money. Maybe an Italian side but don’t lose any sleep over the guy turning up at the Nou Camp

I just think you’re wrong and there is a chance because considering his age, I see Guendouzi as just the type of youngster clubs like that would be thinking about. I just think when you take a dislike to a player, that’s it and their useless crap in you mind. As a result, you underrate him badly.

If he’s managed properly at Old Trafford I can see him ending up a regular starter, even if he starts as a squad player. I think his speed of thought is fine. Look, I don’t know where he’ll go. But I can easily see clubs like United, Barcelona, PSG and Inter seriously thinking about him.

Just seen that Theo Foley died yesterday, aged 83.

Just because you’ve played at a high level once doesn’t mean you necessarily will do it twice. You might even have an 8 month peak to your career - Aaron Ramsey - that you’ll never repeat. Guendouzi looked good when he first came in, but I think rightly everyone is more generous to new players and young players.

He remains a player who can’t head the ball, can’t play on the half turn, often takes too many touches for a CM player, seriously lacks pace. He’s ok at ball retention and doesn’t shy away from things and when he was playing well had a good drilled through ball which seems to be something that doesn’t happen in his game any more. Turns into trouble under pressure and flops looking for the decision... That’s not to mention his attitude which seems to be the thing ushering him to the exit door for us. Am I missing something?

He won’t gain pace and his deficiencies will at this stage never become strengths in his game. What is people’s detailed assessment of him that makes anyone think he’ll be a player who would make a top side and ever feature for the French national team let alone for the next decade??

Players I thought would never make it with us and proved me wrong - Adebayor... early on under no pressure shot about 30 yards wide... Alex song (he’s 32 now!!!) ... Ramsey to some degree in that astonishing period of form... Touré - what a player and what a surprise. Guendouzi I just don’t see it. I don’t think he has the tools.

I can’t believe the stuff some people are coming out with over Guendouzi. He’s not the finished product, but easily produced enough in the earlier part of both his seasons here to make the criticism he gets from some grossly unfair. One example, people focus on an alleged lack of pace as though he can’t move without a walking stick. He isn’t Usain Bolt but is so much quicker than some, including Xhaka. He has average pace, not the quickest and not the slowest. But having that level of pace means, in my view, that he easily has sufficient pace to have a great career in midfield. Also, I’ll be astonished if he doesn’t play lots of games for France, being that’s now been mentioned.

The best thing for him is to get away from the club he currently finds himself at. And it’s fans, some of whom I reckon he ‘ll end up making look mugs.

But Bernard what are his strengths? The critique seems accurate to me? He is very slow for a footballer. I don’t know who’d win in race between him and Xhaka.

In 1975 he had a brief spell at Dartford helping the management, and his sons played there. A well-liked man.

Hopefully for him he will become a great, and it would be nice if it happened with Arsenal. Great pace and heading ability are not the first requirement of a midfielder in my view, but a cool head helps a lot. He is only 21 so he can mature in character. I don't watch that closely these days but he seems to pass well. Having said that by comparison Saka seems a truly exciting young midfield option. We don't want to lose him.

Yes but it’s not just not great pace, is slowness relatively, it might be not important, I don’t see how for a footballer, but at least let’s be accurate

And I would agree OMOH only Saka Really looks a proper prospect, can do the lot. Probably why he’s likely leaving, too good for us atm. Martinelli apart, none of the other youngsters have really convinced me they’ve really got what it takes to be successful ie top 6 material, talented as they may be. Eddie looking sharp and with his goal the other night he looks on the right tracK and I think he’s looking a good option for us.

Bernard's fallen asleep on here.

Sorry Bernard, but enough with that *%^@. The notion that this guy is too good for Arsenal is absurd.

I think Willock has it, but I don't think he has the self-belief yet. I see lots in him to suggest he could be a very good player.

Nailed this.

It’s coquelin Mark 2. A player with winning mentality but limited physical and technical ability. Xhaka looked like Pirlo coming in for him this week. Doesn’t make him worse than Ceballos but blimey is Bernard off the charts on this one.

Yes to be fair, and a few times Nelson has looked really good, and also bereft of confidence at others - I’m sorry to not have seen much more of him.

I was looking at Cantwell this eve for Norwich vs Utd and scored a decent goal and played well, not as well as the comms we’re making out but he’s been good for them generally. He’s 22. Willock in particular I think seeing him at that age would be really interesting if we can invest in him well, but the same for Martinelli, Nketiah, Smith Rowe when he comes back and yes I suppose Guendouzi, although as I’ve said I personally don’t see it and if someone was offering 40M + for him I’d say bite their hand off at the wrist!

As an outsider, which we all are despite supporting them, the impression I’m getting is that Arsenal under Kroenke is becoming an unambitious cesspit that I wouldn’t want to play for, and I’m a lifelong fan. I wasn’t aware that I said he was too good to play for Arsenal. That certainly isn’t what I meant. But I do think Guendouzi is good enough to interest clubs like United, Barcelona, PSG and Inter. That is not the same as saying he’s too good to play for Arsenal.

But I sure as hell wouldn’t want to play for Arsenal at this current time. I don’t like what the club is becoming. Hence if I was a player with other big clubs interested in signing me, I would be pressing my agent to get me out.

He’s a good passer over long and short distances, makes himself available for the ball rather than hiding from it, generally chooses the right ball, shows determination and fight or competitiveness which I like to see in players, and has massive energy and thus an excellent work rate. He isn’t the finished product but I see massive potential.

I think people are being unfair on his pace, you especially if you’re trying to make people think he wouldn’t beat Xhaka in a race. He is not slow for a footballer. Nor is he quick. He has average pace in my view. There are a lot who are quicker, but many who are slower. I simply think you’re trying to make too much of this issue in order to support your moans about him.

Hi Bernard, Yes those are great qualities, it’s yet to be seen what he’ll become. Did you see the graphic above posted by Aubameyang in 2018? He literally finished behind Xhaka in that speed test. So I don’t think I’m overblowing that issue just to have a go at him. Bellerin has made a career out of his pace bailing him and us out defensively and making space for the overlap, now it’s gone a massive part of his game is too, hopefully he will recover some of that.

Whether you say Guendouzi doesn’t need that pace is another issue, but clearly he’s not quick.