I think you need to analyse each game in isolation really. Againest Liverpool we were superb but they were always going to have a period off the ball, bodo was a weird game as their weird pitch made it hard as all our final passes were over hit. Yesterday god knows what happened but our midfield and strikers were not in the game and our defenders had no outball. I also think their wide players were getting to Ben White a bit.

I generally agree though, our success is dependant on keeping martinelli, Jesus, saka and partey on the pitch. If one of those players needs a rest even if it’s for just minutes the downgrade in quality is huge and Lokonga, Nketiah and Marquinhos really aren’t giving Arteta many selection headaches or instilling confidence to be able to rest core team members even at the end of games.

I think if we are still in the chase around January the club should see if it can bring in a top class wide player to spice up our frontline.

Bukayo is on the cover of the latest Time magazine in my local supermarket in sunny Sydney. Crazy times.

Gabriel will take a lot of stick for his silly reaction that could on another day have cost us 2 points. But he was very good in the game where I think our midfield was a bit too weak in offering enough protection to the defence, or as a minimum not taking enough pressure off the defence by getting hold of the game in the middle of the park.

Watch the reaction of the Man U players when the ref didn't allow Ronaldo to take the ball off Pope and score when Newcastle weren't deemed to have taken their free kick. Arsenal were charged for failing to control our players last year for protesting the red card v City at home. What Man U did crowding and chasing the ref in this game is far worse. Lets see if the FA have any clue over consistency?

I’m puzzled why so many think Partey is central to our fortunes. Xhaka has completely outplayed him this season and if we have a weakness in central midfield, it’s firstly due to the lack of cover (though I do believe Lokonga is much better than some admit and Elneny’s injury gives a shortage of numbers) for them.

But if you’re looking to improve one of them as a first choice player, Partey is the obvious candidate.

I think our record with him in the team vs our record with him out speaks for itself. He's the glue that holds our midfield together with his combination of ball winning, passing and ability to evade pressure. As good as Xhaka has been this season I would disagree he has outplayed Partey, though his offensive contribution is more easily quantified and catches the eye easier.

I do agree that it's about depth though, in terms of our starting eleven both of them are comfortably good enough.

Saka's goals and assists have been directly responsible for 9 points so far this season.

If you don’t understand why Partey is pivotal to our system it’s time to watch another sport because you don’t understand it. Shouldn’t really require much explanation if you watch us week in week out

I think its because no one in our squad can get near to the level of Partey in the position he plays. I think right now Lokonga is more suited to the advanced 8 position.

If you base our midfield on having 1 'Lone 6' and 2 'Roaming 8's' my opinion is the following players are suited to each of those positions:
Lone 6: Partey, Elneny
Roaming 8: Xhaka, Ødegaard, Vieira, Lokonga, Emile Smith Rowe, Zinchenko.....I even think Partey and Saka could play here.

Xhaka has been more consistent than Partey this season but I think Partey's absence is felt more because of the lack of suitable cover

I bet I watch Arsenal more than you. Offensive berk!

I wonder if you might be exaggerating how irreplaceable Partey is. I’m pretty sure you said similar in his first season when he was pretty damn poor. He gave himself 4/10 for his initial season, and if anything that was a bit generous.

I think it's the balance he brings to the midfield, even when he's not at his best. When he is on song, he offers so much to how we progress the ball and how we start attacks.

That's how I see it, he is absolutely crucial to the balance. He's vital to us being able to play the ball out from the back in to him under pressure.
I think it is a bit like going from Lacazette to Jesus. Lacazette wasn't a terrible player and had a good first touch and hold up play but for what Arteta wants his teams to do Jesus suits it so much more and we can compete with the best with a Jesus type where we couldn't with a Lacazette type.
When Partey plays at his best in that position we can compete with the very best teams, he doesn't always play to his best granted - but no one else in the squad can get close to his 'best' in that position.
If you put Elneny at his best as a lone 6 he does a job but we need to change the way we play, same for any other member of the squad. There are obvious drop offs in quality for most starting 11 players in the squad (as there are in any team) but I think Partey is the only player who would seriously affect the way we play because the skill level of the 'lone 6' is probably the most difficult position to play in world football for a team that plys so much on the front foot

I do think what is telling is if you look at our starting eleven when Arteta first got the job and and now, Xhaka and Tierney were the only two players remaining as a first choice. If Tierney is no longer the first choice, and I personally think he should be, then Xhaka is the only one left. I’m really not sure that can be put down to a coincidence.

I'm not sure how that relates to the Partey discussion? Arteta rates Xhaka highly, and rightly so, of that there is no doubt and I've made that same point many times when defending Xhaka.

He's quoting Roy Keane who was praising Arsenal while saying he thinks, as do most pundits, that City will win the title. What is "Arsenal hating " about it?

My own guess is that if Arteta had the choice of having Xhaka or Partey in the team, he would choose Xhaka. That cannot be proved or disproved. But what can be proved is that Xhaka is the only first team player when Arteta took over who still is. Arteta has also extended Xhaka’s contract. I’ve seen that he also wants Xhaka’s contract extended further. Will he do that with Partey?

Explain to us all why this is so.

That choice would not strictly be about the quality of the player though, but also what are squad depth looks like for the relative positions. We would probably have an easier time replacing Xhaka with Zinchenko or Ødegaard in case of injury without upsetting the balance of the team as much as if we replaced Partey. I think there's a reason Xhaka has started two of our Europa League games while Partey has only played 7 minutes in the competition.

Reversed it.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-63278993

… and I’m not sure her stature is going from “strength to strength”

I see there are plenty of 'Arsenal got lucky with VAR' calls after this weekend. You'll probably see those 'the league without VAR' tables and people look at them and team the team at the top as the unluckiest team. The reality is actually the complete opposite.

If the VAR calls are correct which for me and I think most non biased fans, they are were in the Leeds game, then any team who gets a reprieve due to a VAR call is simply having their bad luck corrected to neutral.

So any table showing teams who get the most VAR overturns in their favour could actually show those teams who get the worst real time decisions by the on pitch referee.

The on pitch referee's decision is still the most important thing in football because of the threshold for clear and obvious error for VAR. I have seen plenty of decisions on the pitch that VAR would not overturn irrespective of which way the on field ref's decision went - and I think that is the right way VAR should operate, much like Umpires Call in cricket. So many decisions are subjective so VAR isn't about just taking the alterative subjective call from another ref if it is largely a debatable decision. VAR is mostly there to correct the big errors

Perhaps that could also mean Arteta doesn’t think Partey is irreplaceable?

Interesting post. The 'without VAR' table is actually an indication of injustice that would have happened without var. So it shows how much good var is doing. As you note, not all subjectivity or small errors are removed. But for my money, getting rid of the worst injustices is worth the occasional delay and (rarely) inexplicable var decision.

Don't let it get to your head Mikel. Its way too early. If he thought we could challenge them, they wouldn't have sold us Jesus.

Maybe I was a bit too harsh on Partey.

Yesterday was *%^@*** torture and so stressful.
Holding on for the victory was superb and so sweet.
Loved the spirit and character that we showed and truthfully Leeds deserved a draw so fantastic to get the 3 points and see city lose AND our invincibles safe for another season.
Seriously Gabriel needs to calm himself and stop having these head f****.
I was raging at the prospect of not only him getting sent off but even worse the prospect of a leeds penalty that you just know they would have converted and the loss of 2 points.
Would have been a real real sickener.
I think we got lucky because despite clearly being pushed by Bamford the fact is Gab retaliated with the stupid kick out.
Bamford getting a yellow and Gab red and a penalty was legitimate in my opinion.
The relief when Kavanagh overturned was monumental.

Absolutely, VAR has got rid of the really bad decisions and is worth it for that alone. It has also dealt as good as it could with marginal offsides that are difficult to judge in real time but the correct calls are now happening far more often irrespective of whether people moan about someone being a toenail offside.
What it won't do, and probably wasn't ever designed to do, is re-referee the subjective decisions which could be made differently by another ref.

My problem with VAR is a var ref trying to get involved in a decision that would appear quite subjective and should not meet the threshold of 'clear and obvious error'. Typically as soon as VAR get involved by sending their colleague to the screen everyone knows that the decision is getting over turned.

Was referring to Keane

https://www.espn.co.uk/football/english ... or-arsenal


"The independent panel, which assesses all major decisions, told Arsenal that the VAR shouldn't have become involved in the Odegaard-Eriksen incident, and this feels like it's on those exact same lines."

The exact point I've been making about the 'clear and obvious error' and re-refereeing subjective incidents.

This also explains I think how the last minute Leeds penalty had to be cancelled because Bamford fouled Gabriel first and at that point the game is considered dead. You can still be sent off for violent conduct if the ball is dead but you can't concede a penalty for violent conduct in the penalty area if the ball is dead (at least I'm pretty sure in saying that)

Hi Rich. The issue is that so many refereeing decisions are subjective. They have to be. It’s an inevitability. But similarly there will surely be a crossover between something not being clear and obvious to becoming clear and obvious. Is that half an inch, an inch, an inch and a half, two inches and anything up to six inches or even a foot? Won’t there be a slim dividing line between something not being and becoming clear and obvious?

As fans, what is clear and obvious to you may not be clear and obvious to someone else. That will surely apply to referees making subjective decisions about clearness and obviousness.

For me the best way of judging clear and obvious is not needing slow motion television replays to make a decision. But even then there are side issues. At wherever VAR is run, would alternative referees in separate rooms with no communication links watching the incident once at normal speed always make the same decision? Any differences in opinion surely suggests it isn’t clear and obvious.

Saka finishes 8th in the Golden Boy voting, it’s the Balon D’Or for under 21 players.
Barca’s Gavi won it, Bellingham was 4th

Greetings Bernard, wherever a line is drawn, there will be cases that are difficult to judge. Eg did a ball cross a goal-line fully, was a player offside, etc. Even more so in red card offenses where line itself is very imprecisely defined, and the matter inherently requires more judgement.

However, in all of these, there will be cases where the on-field decision is objectively wrong, and there can be no debate. For example, where the refs fail to see that the ball has crossed the goal line, or when a red card is given where there was actually no foul, or when a player is flagged when they are meters onside.

English referreeing standards are actually not bad, in the sense that English refs are at least not obviously bent. In other instances, there is bias and corruption to deal with, such as the Pakistani umpires and lbw 30 or 40 years ago.

VAR doesn't sort everything out, and of course throws up its own borderline cases and frankly weird decisions. However, I feel it is vast improvement and will get better and better, particularly if the tendency that Rich points out (Var refs second-guessing cases where there isn't a clear and obvious error) is stamped out.

Having said that, a case can be made that where penalties and red cards have been given, and there is a break in play anyway, the 'clear and obvious error' rule should not apply. The fact that the ref saw it one way, should not be a factor, given that it is highly subjective and the on field officials do only see it from one perspective, and in a split second. In these case, it is better to review the incident without presumption either way. I think this is what the VAR guys are trying to do, as in the Gabriel case this weekend.

Thinking about the World Cup and how much it will affect us as I’ve seen a few pundits (G. Neville!) suggest we’ll go backwards after the World Cup and join the others in a scrap for top 4. That’s not unrealistic of course but I’m interested in what he based that on? Is it the World Cup fatigue (which will affect every top team) or does he think we’re hugely over performing and the rest are under performing?

Going to the World Cup and starting games:
Saka, Partey, Jesus, Tomiyasu, Turner, Xhaka

Going to the World Cup as a squad member:
Ramsdale, Saliba

Maybe going to the World Cup:
White, Cédric, Lokonga, Gabriel, Martinelli

Not going
Zinchenko, Tierney, Holding, Elneny, Emile Smith Rowe, Ødegaard, Nketiah, Marquinhos, Nelson, Vieira

A bit of guesswork in there, but even if those we think might start most games how many can you see going deep in the tournament? Jesus and maybe Saka?

Morning Decaf. I wouldn’t argue with what you say there. I suppose my idea is to have one replay at the VAR office in real speed with no slow motion replays. In other words the same as the referees and lines-people (what are linesmen called these days?) officiating the match at the stadium.

However, as I said previously, is there an argument for having the video watched by two separate referees at the VAR office in separate rooms with no links between them to discuss it (at the very least mobiles taken from them)? If they decide something different, perhaps the ‘mistake’ (if there was one) isn’t as clear and obvious as one may think?

I guess there’s an argument against that due to cost increases. It will mean having at least two referees at the VAR office. But I would have thought ‘clear and obvious’ errors could routinely be put right by the VAR referee(s) watching an incident once, at normal speed, without countless slow motion replays.

EDIT: Furthermore, allowing the VAR referee(s) to watch the incident once at normal speed would surely speed things up.

Where is Jesus in the Brazil pecking order. Is he the first choice?

If both Jesus and Saka are knackered after the WC, we will be some trouble.

Switzerland and Ghana could also surprise. Neither has the toughest group :(

Interesting thought this.

Had a look at the Brazil squad which on paper certainly looks like it could be a contender with many good players. Far from certain that Gabriel goes and Martinelli even less likely on paper. His competition is neymar, Anthony, Raphina and Vinicius. He will need to show some form to displace one of those.

It could be far from certain we are adversely affected by the tournament. Even saka isn’t a guarenteed starter.

Incredibly I believe they prefer Richarlison right now. He will make the squad probably but with firminio and Richarlison isn’t a guaranteed starter

Someone tell the pundits they are making straw man debates about us being title challengers. Gooners are the only ones not talking about it.