hardly surprising .... one person inside our half sets off the alarm bells , "Quick get it back it to goalkeeper "

As my mate from Townsville alluded to with the chance to check his EBay bids ; it makes ANY activity other than watching Arsenal seem pleasurable .

Having watched a few games of the Asian Champions League I can tell you that they won’t tolerate performances like last night even at Goni Desert FC

We used to be two or three signings short of being a top team. Many on here said we needed new dcm, cb and striker. But Wenger has messed up recruitment and retention so much that we are seven or eight new players short of competing with the best. Time to go. Honour says he should resign.

Triple groan .... Wenger has a defective self analysis gene .

"I believe we have to recover quickly " .

Oh my God ... we were sh*t against Spurs , we were sh*t against the reindeer herders , we were sh*t again today ... the F**** team you assembled and coach spent the whole game passing to someone else .


The passes are sprayed back and forth with NO PARTICULAR PURPOSE other than THAT PERSON IS UNMARKED ...... can you not see that you brainless pr*ck .

Serious, non-flippant question for you Hoy, if you happen to read this post. Have you had enough yet?

I love quotes like this
"For large periods we defended well, but we lost concentration and against good teams you pay," said Wenger.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/43192705

I must have missed the times we defended well.

Without Sanchez running around, dropping deep and trying something we looked a little impotent IMO. Late in the game Aubameyang had to try dropping deep. Now he knows what he has done.

The point is not you in isolation , but collectively thousands of others who similarly backed Wenger when for some the key issue of his teams being mediocre without the ball was obvious years ago, the issues about the money are one thing ( although I said that has been re written too ) but what we are seeing now is an ever decreasing circle of those same issues .

Btw I’m not an irrationally angry person as those who have met me on here know.

I fully expect the usual list of “facts” about the club , but the issue is thousands of fans kept defending Wenger long after it was obvious to many that for the reasons outlined he was never going to challenge properly for the big two trophies again

You know who called it back then?Stewart robson , but oh no we were constantly being told by some how he was just bitter cos he lost his job on arsenal tv

Best seller

You are applying logic about replacing a manager under usual football ownership. Every other owner/board with our situation would be looking at it in that manner, except us. Stan is unique because trophies and the sport isn't why he has us. We're looked at the same as his amazon stock holdings.

And we are producing revenue still so why change? Changing will cost money.

With regards to Pete's book joke/meme. How guilty is Ivan? Really. What power does he really have? Can he replace Wenger and hasn't? Can he force or stop certain trades? From what I understand Wenger has the final say so on players coming in or out.

It’s 7-8 players for the first 11 to be competitive, the same again for the squad. But above all it is the joke of a manager who needs the boot.

From Wenger:
"And the referee doesn't give the injury time, the added time, regularly. When I said why don't you give more time, he told me, 'why do you want more time?' I told him it's not down to you to judge how long is the time, if we want it or not, give the normal added time."

Come on Wenger, another 90 minutes, and this team wouldn't get anywhere close to over turning the deficit. You have moulded a team that is lacking so much. Just leave Arsenal, and let the club and players breathe again.

Even if we were to win on Thursday, not only wouldn't it be any solace, I'd actually be a bit angry about it. I'd be thinking why didn't we do that on Sunday?

I've not said you are irrationally angry. We've disagreed in the past, but you haven't pulled the b%*&s%*^ stance of saying that every negative now is the fault of every fan who didn't turn against the manager sooner like Top Gun has been doing if late.

And frsnkly other than rewarding those who felt more strongly about Wenger's failings longer ago with an ego biscuit, I'm not sure what worth there is in a game of 'I lost faith first...' one-upmanship.

The circles have been decreasing for a while, but despite the same flaws having been in existence for a long time, it's only comparatively recently that whatever strengths the manager had have evaporated.

I'll admit, frustrating though it was, I wasn't too upset with our 4th place finishes when we were spending less than most of the division and still playing genuinely good football. But that's partly because I never thought the manager would still be here without more success.

The fact that the returns are diminishing at such an alarming rate despite the chequebook having been dusted off for a few years now means the manager still being in place is a sort of cruel farce.

It's one thing being a bit defensively crap and mentally weak when you are getting top 4 every year, playing lovely football, and spending less than 15 other teams in the division. It wasn't what we wanted, but from a competence perspective it was bearable. The last two years however (and maybe 3) have been just had by any measure against any metric.

The frustration is even greater because the cup final was such a brilliant day with such a brilliant performance. But that aside, no one even knows what this team is any more. At least when cited rent a gob Stewart Robson (accuracy doesn't excuse where and how he said certain things for me, and I hated him being wheeled out as an Arsenal man, given his departure from the club and sniping in the press in the 80s, and the hypocrisy of his harsh criticism of players returning from injury when his own career was ruined by it, and then laying into the team on her club's own tv station) started slagging the team off we were still actually in title races, good away from home and played good football.

On the general subject, same question to you...what different would it have made if more fans had been unhappy sooner when Wenger was still getting top 4 and turning a transfer profit.

My guess is absolutely none

I wonder if Wenger will play a back 5 again on Thursday? In a way the performance yesterday damns him either way. Play the 5 and he’s stubborn and won’t learn. Play a 4 and it’s an admission he got it terribly wrong.

I would genuinely love to know what the tactics were/are and how wenger told the team to take advantage on city’s weaknesses. I said before the game there is only 2 ways to beat city, all out defence squeezing any space or the high unrelenting press all over the pitch. Wenger can’t coach either so I wonder what he said?

Except we may have got to this point a lot sooner with a half empty stadium and driven things to a point that the club could of ( maybe ) move on from this despot .

But even if not what is the point of meekly accepting things? especially when we know that other big club fans don’t just lie down and roll over

The squad has regressed in terms of mental strength. What little we had prior. They literally looked scared. They were overly cautious, didn't trust each other. Totally different than the semis and finals last season. How many "big" wins have we had so far this season? Is beating Tottenham at home a big win? Or beating Chelsea in the league cup? Also at home. That's it from what I can recall. Mid table clubs grab a scalp or two from the big clubs. It's not saying much. Leicester has beaten Liverpool and Tottenham.

Best case we would have had a new manager worst case we wouldn't have had to read the absolute bollocks written on here about Wenger revolutionising arsenal and football in general and how he built the Emirates himself. Absolute tripe

I keep hearing that Kroenke is arsenals problem but he only became majority shareholder in 2011 and our problems have been evident for some time. Our fans need to accept their share of the blame, there has been no vocal display of our displeasure at the Emirates at all. People need to admit they got sucked in by Wengers nonsense

Another example, Xhaka and Ramsey being bloody good players and the least of our problems eh

They barely won a tackle yesterday and were a disgrace

Our fans deserve Wenger

It s a complete fallacy to suggest that because X is demonstrably true now, this proves a claim that X was true Z years ago as well.

If my car is hard to start in the morning it might still be worth keeping for other aspects and you are not "proved right" that it was only fit for crushing at that time because five years later it won't start at all.

Wenger showed some signs of decline which many could see but - correctly in my opinion - resisted the hysteria of others which involved seeing nothing positive in the team at all. Few expected - again reasonably in my opinion - that he would make the calamitous decision to cling to power because he had decided that retirement was death.

Many of the posts made by the most vociferous anti-Wengerists on here were nonsense as were their claims about the failures of some players - Giroud being the most prominent example but also Ramsey (the fact that he was poor yesterday equally does not PROVE anybody was right in describing him as a rubbish player).

The club is now in total crisis in my opinion due to a general mismanagement of his exit and failure to use the new stadium as a springboard rather than the fact that they didn't sack the manager ten or even five years ago. The catastrophe was really the new contract last season which everybody knew was wrong.

31 years ago I went to possibly my favourite ever football game a League cup final in which we came from behind to beat the favourites. Yesterday I was stuck in traffic near Baker Street remarking to my son "oh look there's some Arsenal fans going to the game".

I didn't turn up this time but then in fairness to me neither did the team.

You've lost a flip-flop I think...

A tiny thing but why when we have free kicks do both Özil and Xhaka stand over the ball.......both left footed with the same kind of delivery?. Should you not have a left footer and a right footer over the ball giving you two different options, inswinger or outswinger?

Ran into Tony Adams yesterday

He was wearing a lime green chequed three peace suit with white trainers. It was the second most ridiculous thing I witnessed yesterday

Who pulled your chain, Chairman Mao? I am not sure that you are the best person to deliver lectures on the need for a period of criticism and self-criticism.

Is it even worth trying to rationalise this stuff anymore soc?

I was sat literally a few yards behind both benches and the contrast was remarkable. The way Wenger moans to the 4th official is incredible the poor bloke must have to use all his powers of restraint to stop himself from telling Arsene to piss off. After the third goal went in we resorted to simply taking the piss and shouting stuff like "freedom for Catalonia" "Freedom for tapas " at the city bench

I get that, but some of these little things are just so mindnumbingly obvious and they all add up. Like perhaps marking a man on the edge of the box from corners.

It's a horribly vivid picture.

I'm just bored of it mate what can I say ?

If criticism is inappropriate let's move the conversation to why 110 thousand quid a week isn't enough money for Aaron *%^@*** Ramsey to stink the place out

Look at the first goal,

Have you ever seen a goal like that before in the cup final ? I can't recall one, our 35 million pound centre half who isn't goal side ! Surely that tells you all you need to know ? my 8 year olds Sunday league team are coached weekly how to position yourself to defend.

Really I mean theres no point even analysing this stuff anymore. Jut watched a clip of Gary Neville slagging off Xhaka and Ramsey for walking around during a cup final calling them a disgrace. Couldn't agree with the gobby manc more

Criticism is fine it's the holier-than-thou "I was right! I was right!" stuff that gets up the collective crack I guess. Exhibit A: Rajhav who has never been right about anything in his life.

As I am as rich in metaphors as you are comic relief for the bench yesterday, the fact that you repeatedly screamed "there's a shark in the park!" five years ago doesn't mean there WAS one just because a Great White has been spotted in the harbour today.

WRT your take on players, the problem you have I think is insisting on judging them on a game-by-game basis rather than taking them as a whole. As The Carpenters said it was only yesterday that you were forced to admit that Ramsey wasn't as bad as you kept ludicrously claiming. Now a bad game and you're back to the raging hyperbole of stinking the place out. I'm all in favour of inconsistency when it comes to football but the noise of a gear change from 5th into reverse can also be a discordant one.

Also a bit perplexed by Neville claiming he's not liked all this stuff for ages but as I recall he was pretty scathing even last season about Arsenal fans not appreciating what they had in Wenger...

Again what do you want me to say. Am I childish? Yes often. Do I over react ? Yep a little bit

But ten years of watching everyone else lauding arsenes magnificent achievements may have taken its mental toll on me there's been a shark in the park for quite some time. Maybe I should just chill out and disregard this current incarnation of Arsenal as life more important

..........


..


.But *%^@*** hell Ramsey is probably the most over rated arsenal midfielder I've seen in all my days and he only turns up one in six games !! When I've said otherwise I've just been giving him the benefit of the doubt, he's *%^@*** useless

Absolutely fair enough on part one.

You're just wrong on part two, he's hugely talented player. But he isn't really overrated at all, most can see his contradictions although I personally think he would be far far better in a team with some organisation and basic coherence.

He's bog average, how many games does he dominate the midfield in. He just does nothing just runs around mincing.

Seperate subject ...Hey read this it's bloody funny. From watching arsenes antics with the 4th official I can't blame the geezer for having a laugh

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/201 ... nd-league/

The manager is the tap root to his squad’s motherlode of overpaid uselessness, whilst simultaneously being the totem of it, as he continues to collect more money in one day than the typical yearly wage of someone who actually does a job of value to society. It’s a problem.

It’s one thing not to be very good, it’s another altogether more rarefied stench of failure to make excellent players into average players. It’s reached such a ridiculous situation that if Arsenal play well and beat City in the upcoming game on Thursday, it will only cast a worse light on the Arsenal players for doing it this time, but not last time. In other words, every game is now a lose-lose for the players. It is an inescapable spiral of negativity.

So let’s not hear anything more about Arsenal lacking leaders on the pitch, that’s irrelevant, it is off the pitch where there is no leadership. It’s as naked as a razor and perhaps most terribly of all, it has reached the point where it’s actually become embarrassing for everyone in football to witness. There’s only one solution and everyone knows what it is. And it’s not shouting.


http://www.football365.com/news/arsenal ... -a-manager

That's the thing. The only thing that CAN make a difference is fans voting with their feet. Protests only work when the decision makers are exposed to them or are combined with boycotts etc. Which still gives the lie to TG's nonsense as most of the people his (or her) barbs are aimed at can't /don't go to matches for reasons of finance, geography or other commitments.

Yes it's one of his best excuses. I had every belief that at 3-0 down against City and having been piss-poor for 92 minutes, we would turn things around if only we hadn't been cheated out of another minute.

*%^@*** muppet.

Quite enjoyed the way he minced us an FA cup once.

I wonder now if a one game boycott would get a significant response. If they called for people not to attend the City game on Thursday for example to symbolically protest the lamentable display yesterday?

I don't know, I suspect it wouldn't work because City is a big game but I don't really know. Playing to a near empty stadium would be a PR disaster for the club.

Twice

Like i said he's a one in six cup type of guy who was made to look like a complete d******* yesterday