He wasn’t claiming credit he was saying the opposite about how things evolve.

Indeed. It was Wenger who chose the players he signed. Nobody made him sign a load of skilful midgets and adopt the tika-taka game.

But he also wasn't taking responsibility.

And we didn't just happen across a bunch of skillful midgets. He was buying the players to fit the style rather than having to adapt because of the players he had.

If it was 5'7 or less, unstable in a stiff breeze, and had an unpronouncable name, Wenger wanted to buy it. It was only the fact that he had nailed his wallet shut, and that the trolley dashes did not allow us to be so discerning, that saved us from from become completely Lilliputian.

Maybe my memory is faulty .

No I’d suggest this is totally accurate, it was only after he’d signed rosicky hleb and co that the realisation occurred we didn’t have enough physicality in the side.

I guess the point he was trying to make was not about the players size specifically but that there was not an intentional decision to play differently ie the training methods and instructions didn’t change it was just a product of having smaller and quicker players who could buzz around the pitch

Any lack of money would have applied to anyone he bought. I doubt we spent any less money on skilful midgets than we would have done by signing players with more physical presence. For me he turned his back on what made his Highbury years so successful. I strongly suspect Martin Keown is right. He saw Barcelona of the Messi, Iniesta and Xavi years and fell in love with the way they played. He decided that was how he wanted Arsenal to play, so copied them with inferior players to the ones they had. It didn’t work.

And to be fair, in that period we had some real tough luck with injuries and players buggering off inopportunely to Barcelona and Italy. Rosicky and Eduardo and Hleb in particular. Not to mention Flamini.

But didn't the dismal sideways period come later?

If you’re right it surely means Wenger was completely lacking in foresight. You’re saying he signed a bunch of skilful midgets and only then realised we lacked physical presence. Maybe I’m being too kind in calling it a lack of foresight. Being thick or incompetent might be nearer the truth.

I still remember a game against Chelsea. We played a back four and before or maybe after substitutions the six in midfield and attack on the pitch at the same time were all the proverbial skilful midgets. I can’t now recall who they were. Who knows? Players around the size of Fabregas, Denilson, Hleb, Rosicky, Arshavin, Eduardo. But whoever it was, Chelsea comfortably beat us. It was like men against boys.

I think budget played a part in this period, physical players like drogba and Essien were out of reach financially for us. I think he was naive about the physical side of the game for a while also.

We are just incredibly boring to watch aren't we.

Against what transfers fees were at the time, didn’t we pay a lot of money for the likes of Arshavin and Rosicky. I might be wrong but wasn’t Arshavin our record transfer at the time? I’d be astonished if we couldn’t have found more physically robust players for similar amounts.

I accept some big players would have been financially out of our reach. But so were plenty of small players. We couldn’t get anywhere near the fees needed to buy the likes of Messi, Iniesta and Xavi. But the point remains that with the money we had, Wenger spent it on skilful midgets we could afford in preference to bigger players he could afford.

Indeed. He built the team around Fabregas and adopted a style similar to Barca and full of promising young players. The 2008 Arsenal was a very good side and played great attacking football. They fell short with injuries being a killer and let's not forget Chelsea and Man Utd were exceptionally strong back then....they contested the CL final. By 2011, he also had a good side with Ramsey and Wilshire in there but again disastrous injuries. There's no doubt some more physicality would have helped but Arsenal got no help whatsoever from some appalling refereeing of our games back then. From 2011 on is when it started to fade and become slower and slower tika taka. Not sure anything was as bad as Emery's last couple of months though.

Players like drogba and Essien were way more than Arshavin. Even Makélélé cost 17 million and that was several years before Arshavin came to us.

When Wenger finally realised we were missing physicality in came Chamakh. Our drogba

Arshavin remained our record transfer for 4 or 5 years though and didn't he only cost something like £16m? We spent virtually nothing for several seasons.

Yes drogba signed for chelsea several seasons earlier for 24 million. We were spending next to nothing and Arshavin was a final fling of the dice to get champions league which worked. We were spending a bare minimum.

Arshavin would look like a maestro in our current side.

Reyes cost £17m so if Arshavin was our record signing he must have cost more than that. I remember Reyes and Hleb because, I don’t know the reason why, but when their signings were confirmed on Arsenal.com they were the only times I ever recall the transfer fee being disclosed. Normally it was called an ‘undisclosed sum’ if my memory serves.

To be fair, on his day Arshavin would look like a maestro in any side. Hugely gifted player. On his bad days he was diabolical.

I still suspect a player’s perceived quality is far more important in determining his transfer fee than his size. Both out of our price range but I honestly think the smaller Messi would have cost even more than the bigger Ronaldo. If Wenger had wanted to buy bigger players, I’m sure he could have found plenty he could afford.

Good of him to do so. Hope the red card incident instilled a new desire in him. Push him to play harder on the pitch.

what an understatement

To be fair Adebayor was our drogba and for a while he was very very good, with him scoring 24 goals in the league we went very close to the title. At his peak with us Adebayor totally bullied defences.
Also I think the physical players out of our price range were just the very good, well known and highly sought after. Wenger could have bought more physicality if he wanted. Remember the continual links to Hangeland and Baba Diop both at Fulham, both huge but not as good on the ball as the type of player Wenger was buying at the time

I've seen us linked with Isco from Madrid and Boateng from Bayern. It really isn;'t the sort of player we should be going after now. You might get a perceived bargain transfer price because these guys leave on free transfers or the bigger club just want them off their books but they are still hugely expensive and if they don't work out they retain no transfer value.

Looking round our squad at the moment there isn't great transfer value, but it really does feel like we need to try to make something happen. Apparently we had an offer for Lacazette from Roma in the summer but turned it down, I don't know how much for but lets say it was £15-20m, probably a knock down price on where we think he's worth but could that £15-20m plus another big saving in wages be put to better use in a young hungry striker?

Indeed. It is a pity he turnout out to be such a *%^@, and that RVP had such bad luck with injuries.
Wenger really was up against in the 2004-2011 period, with injuries and with financially doped rivals poaching our best players.

When Emery took over we proceeded on the basis we would buy young players to raise funds and get returns when they move on. But now Arteta has started buying players who are older, no resale value and most of whom seem to be winding down. They are what I call players to try and save the managers job, if we purchased 25yo players I could see it but WillianSoares Aubameyang and Luiz extended are no where near our corporate objectives. If Arteta does not succeed it is a total disaster for the club. He is buying players like Pep but with no thought to where this leads.

To some extent I can understand the methods though. If you have a budget of £50m and you feel you need 5 new players, do you go and get 5 x £10m players who will all fill gaping holes in your squad but none will ever really be good enough unless you unearth an absolute gem. Or do you go and get 2 x £25m players at the right profile who immediately improve the team and (you hope) can form the spine of the side for some time, and then fish around for some free transfer experienced pros who will do a job for you as a stop gap until the next transfer window comes and you have the same budget again?

Risks either way I think. We have made such a notch of transfers for years I have little faith left. It is not just poor purchases but not moving players on at the right time. In the last window I think we should have sold Lacazette and M-N to raise some funds. We may have got the elusive other midfielder we wanted.

Luiz, Mustafi, Sokratis, Kolasinac, Özil definitely out the door next summer (if not before), Lacazette likely to go too and Ceballos unlikely to join. That's around £1m a week off the wage bill. I think we just have to brace ourselves for a rough ride this season, and hope that 1) we get a proper rebuild in the summer and 2) Tottenham don't win the title

I respect (love is way over the top as a word) them as players but we had so many all at the same time. I don’t think it’s the way to achieve success in England. The best central midfield I’ve ever seen at Arsenal was Vieira and Petit together. Giants of men. Talented but not the pure skill of some skilful midgets we’ve had.

Please don’t underestimate Petit either. I remember Exiled, a poster I always respected, saying over the time they played together Petit may well have been the better of the two. I think there was a solid argument for him being right.

Thing was Manu wasn’t just a midfield enforcer he could really play and had a great left foot. That chipped pass over the top for overmars goal in the cup final v Newcastle.

Flamini could just enforce and recycle possession, Torreira like wise. You surely need some technical ability in the middle of the park too. I think this kind of grated with Arsene and even when Arteta played in front of our defence that worked okish even if it wasn’t combative enough.

To be honest I’d rather have a team of complete midgets right now that can pass superbly on a six pence than midfield “enforcers” that have a 95% pass completion rate in games that we lost without creating a chance.

Arteta himself was technically very accomplished.

Was kind of my point. Whilst he wasn’t an enforcer that many craved at the time his range of passing was very accomplished and with cazorla in front of him you have 2 players who can distribute the ball staggeringly well. I would give my arm for that combination now though at the time everyone was screaming for a more physical player

Super article on Monreal. Wonderful attitude. The sort of player that you like representing your club.

Anyone heard the Arsene Wenger desert island discs yet? Haven’t heard it.

My dad called to say he comes across really well.

Did he choose “I just don’t know what to do with myself“ ?

What am i missing?
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/54962709
Pedri: Lionel Messi is 'enormously impressed' - so could he be Barcelona's saviour?

As well as having a great attitude, Monreal was also a super player. If the best left backs I’ve seen play for Arsenal are Sansom and Cole, and Tierney joins them in a top three once he’s played more games, Monreal certainly gets in my second tier group that includes the likes of Winterburn and Clichy.

I've listened to it. And yeah he does. Whatever we all think of Wenger outstaying his welcome he really does come across as a decent bloke, and clearly still loves the club. Some good music choices in there as well.

Isco only has 3 goals since the start of last season. Didn't register a single assist in the league last season until the final day when he got 2. (made 30 appearances for Madrid last year_ Might be in his prime based on his age, but he's not in form

I agree on that. I'd back Vieira and Petit to dominate most 3 man midfields we've seen in the prem. People talk about Lampard and Gerrard and their goalscoring exploits but Vieira and Petit would dominate them both easily.
I was trying to think if we've ever seen anyone come close to what Vieira could do in the league for any team since he left? 6ft 4, unbeatable physically, telescopic legs making every tackle, receiving the ball in tight areas, wonderfully under rated technique. The closest I can think of with all that combination is Yaya Toure when he went through that golden period with Man City. He totally dominated games much like Vieira used to

Want to know why Willian is struggling at Arsenal compared to his time at chelsea ? Take a look at the goal Hudson Odoi just scored for chelsea.

Mason mount with a ball from inside his own half to the right flank as they were breaking that split the defence and had their defenders back peddling.

Fast and accurate, quite simply that pass doesn’t exist at Arsenal.

I can’t recall the last time I saw our midfield players hit a ball like that let alone it leading to a goal. We simply can’t move the ball up the pitch quick enough until we bring in more midfielders