Supporters Forum

TOP GUN · **#304761**

Pete on the beach wrote:

Well we’ll it came to pass

I’m glad it’s over , thank you Arsene for the first 10 years and i’ll Give you 5 more out of respect , but from 2011 onwards the writing was on the wall ; and it’s escalated the past 12-18 months

The rest we all know and has been done to death , so no need to rehash again, but as much as the tributes we’re being saturated with ( and is getting a bit nauseating a case of who shot bambi I) are fair enough up to a point, I’m not going to forget the fact that the past 7 or 8 years have helped rip the soul out of the club we all love , caused fights ructions and feuds amongst fans , and led to many being bored out of their mind, giving up on the club, walking away , or like daz and I did ( and others) seeking our fix elsewhere .

Am I back in the fold? theoretically yes , however the goalposts have moved now, it’s very hard ,when ‘lines’ that I crossed just over a year ago when we organised the first protests after the Munich debacle changed relationships fundamentally , Arsenal truth( I know some of you don’t like the guy, but he says a lot of accurate stuff for me) said this in his piece yesterday

“However, having been through this ugly experience, which has both tested my principles and forced me to turn my back on the club I loved for 35 years, I’m not quite sure if I can ever support Arsenal in quite the same way as I did before. For me, that is the unforgiveable legacy that Wenger has left behind. I now feel more inclined to analyse Arsenal as an observer rather than a supporter, only time will tell if that changes”

And that’s kind of how I view things at this moment too, as he says time will tell

Also the knock on from this is, I have a real affection for BHA these days, and as I live here, this is where I watch most of my football now , so I can’t just switch that off and quite possibly I have two clubs going forward . But yes I’m Sort of back on board and fully hoping we can win the Europa league ,

At the moment, like it’s all a bit giddy . As I’ve repeatedly said the past few years regarding Wenger , that i’ll Judge him properly , two years from the point he leaves , once the dust settles , so i’ll Get back to you in May 2020

And if you haven’t seen it Kev is pretty spot on as usual http://onlinegooner.com/article.php?sec ... trlksrTWhA

He reckons Ancelotti short term, which he’s been saying for 6 months

Good article. He keeps saying Ancellotti but the press seem to suggest otherwise. The comments from Ancellotti yesterday would suggest we haven't spoken to him though.

It's over Pete :laughing7:

what an incredible couple of years.

TOP GUN · **#304762**

This on BBC though

BBC Sport understands that Ancelotti would be keen on recruiting former Italy international Andrea Pirlo as an assistant.

Ash · **#304763**

lomekian wrote:

Ash wrote:

As unpopular as it was it may have been for the best that he went this summer not last, because of this paragraph from bbc article:

‘... The difference compared to a year ago is that Arsenal have a new structure off the pitch - Sanllehi arrived from Barcelona; Mislintat from Dortmund; head of negotiations Huss Fahmy from Team Sky; and head of high performance Darren Burgess from Australian Rules football...’

Finally got some other football people running the show. I think it possible Utd tanking after Ferguson has shaped the approach to this a fair bit. While that squad was overrated because of what he was able to get out of them ours, hopefully, is being underrated for the opposite reason and will be assessed soberly and added to robustly. There will certainly be fresh energy and motivation all through the club and that’s, at the moment, more than enough for me.

This is pretty much what I've been saying for months and why I was confident we'd have a new man next season. Good that he's seen the light and made the call now, as the goodwill of the farewell may inspire the team in Europe against a better side, and the crowd should be really up for it.

To be fair I probably got it from you first! As an aside, this is ridiculous twitter in the know stuff so apologies, the wife of someone I know comes from the same town in Croatia as one Luka Modric - knows the family because they all follow his career and everyone knows everyone, and casually mentioned to him, “Oh yeah he’s moving to England and it’s between Liverpool and Arsenal.” I tried not to get excited, I tried...

AmericanGooner · **#304764**

I'm going to sour the party a bit. We still have Kroenke and long term Stan is not good for The Arsenal. If Wenger had not quit, would he really have been sacked in the summer or during this season? As far as I know its speculation.

For me, short term, I'm excited and a wee bit fearful of what next season may hold. In the big picture, I am not happy with the ownership. I think Josh will be much better than the father. He's at least run teams where he tried to win, not just dollars and cents.

Gunfire · **#304765**

Ash wrote:

To be fair I probably got it from you first! As an aside, this is ridiculous twitter in the know stuff so apologies, the wife of someone I know comes from the same town in Croatia as one Luka Modric - knows the family because they all follow his career and everyone knows everyone, and casually mentioned to him, “Oh yeah he’s moving to England and it’s between Liverpool and Arsenal.” I tried not to get excited, I tried...

He'll be 33 then so I wouldn't get too excited.

AmericanGooner · **#304766**

Not that I'm expecting it but I wouldn't be surprised to see the remaining EPL games whereby the opposition clubs have some sort of recognition for him.

Ash · **#304767**

Gunfire wrote:

Ash wrote:

To be fair I probably got it from you first! As an aside, this is ridiculous twitter in the know stuff so apologies, the wife of someone I know comes from the same town in Croatia as one Luka Modric - knows the family because they all follow his career and everyone knows everyone, and casually mentioned to him, “Oh yeah he’s moving to England and it’s between Liverpool and Arsenal.” I tried not to get excited, I tried...

He'll be 33 then so I wouldn't get too excited.

33 in September. For a short term Ancelotti signing I’d still get excited.

TOP GUN · **#304768**

Ash wrote:

lomekian wrote:

This is pretty much what I've been saying for months and why I was confident we'd have a new man next season. Good that he's seen the light and made the call now, as the goodwill of the farewell may inspire the team in Europe against a better side, and the crowd should be really up for it.

To be fair I probably got it from you first! As an aside, this is ridiculous twitter in the know stuff so apologies, the wife of someone I know comes from the same town in Croatia as one Luka Modric - knows the family because they all follow his career and everyone knows everyone, and casually mentioned to him, “Oh yeah he’s moving to England and it’s between Liverpool and Arsenal.” I tried not to get excited, I tried...

He's exactly the type of player we need btw. Recycles possession and intelligent distribution

Gaz from Oz · **#304769**

It will be interesting to see if the fan base do come together for the remainder of the season and next season.

I think there are three distinct groups after the resignation/sacking : those who are happy he has gone and will give him no send off, the group who are glad he has gone and now want to pay tribute to him, those who did nt want him to go.

I hope the latter 2 groups understand and respect the rights of the first group. Next year the third group will be totally negative and expect the new manager to win every game. I will be surprised if does not unfold in this way

As has been mentioned by a number of people on here some supporters are lost for ever and there will be many who will not be the same rabid fans they once were. They will have other teams or found out that there are other things to do with the family than go to football.

Personally I will not be revising the last ten years - I am clearly in the first group mentioned above.

Daz · **#304770**

Very similar, Pete, going to have to suck it and see.

I dislike being told how I have to think about Wenger by people for whom this is just another opportunity to flip-flop or wag a sanctimonious finger.

I can't stand some of the mawkish revisionist bollocks that there was nothing at the club but drunken louts until he arrived and invented broccoli.

He was an integral part of a set-up over the last few years that opened a fundamental disconnect between the club and its supporters, that reneged on what moving to The Emirates was supposed to bring, and which - most egregiously - bored us and led to widespread disillusion.

I would be graceful at the ground, I would give him a farewell round of applause and I would feel strange that an era was coming to an end. But the length of that era is largely down to the fact that the stubborn old *%^@** would not leave and the owners didn't give a *%^@ as long as the bums were still on the seats or glued to the screen. He wasn't some saintly genius - or even the son of God - he was a football manager and in his latter stages not such a good one.

Decaf · **#304771**

Gaz from Oz wrote:

It will be interesting to see if the fan base do come together for the remainder of the season and next season.

I think there are three distinct groups after the resignation/sacking : those who are happy he has gone and will give him no send off, the group who are glad he has gone and now want to pay tribute to him, those who did nt want him to go.

I hope the latter 2 groups understand and respect the rights of the first group. Next year the third group will be totally negative and expect the new manager to win every game. I will be surprised if does not unfold in this way

As has been mentioned by a number of people on here some supporters are lost for ever and there will be many who will not be the same rabid fans they once were. They will have other teams or found out that there are other things to do with the family than go to football.

Personally I will not be revising the last ten years - I am clearly in the first group mentioned above.

I think you overestimate the negative effects of the past few years on support. The boost to support during Wenger's period was enormous: not just the success but also the way we played (or were perceived to play), Wenger's comportment (or perceptions thereof), and or lack of financial doping. In it is only in the last few years that we have actually become somewhat ridiculous. I doubt the declining attendances signal anything permanent.

As for the groups. The first group is welcome to their feelings, but any negative public display would be in extremely bad taste.

Daz · **#304772**

Some shortcuts to your Wenger's departure think piece

1 Decline

2 Drunkeness

3 Arsene Who?

4 Broccoli

5 Revolutionised

6 Bestrode the game like a...

6 Invincibles

7 But Abramovich/Mourinho

8 Emirates

9 Had the game passed him by?

10 Planes/empty seats

11 Jumped/pushed

12 Send off he deserves!

Daz · **#304773**

Sorry forgot

13 One thing's for sure we will never see his like again

Daz · **#304774**

Sprinkle liberally with relationship metaphors sit back and peel an onion.

grantyboy · **#304775**

Finally. Hopeful about Arsenal. Looking forward to seeing a team that is unpredictable again or one in which we can at least look at with a fresh sense of perspective.

grantyboy · **#304776**

Goonie wrote:

Gaz from Oz wrote:

It will be interesting to see if the fan base do come together for the remainder of the season and next season.

I think there are three distinct groups after the resignation/sacking : those who are happy he has gone and will give him no send off, the group who are glad he has gone and now want to pay tribute to him, those who did nt want him to go.

I hope the latter 2 groups understand and respect the rights of the first group. Next year the third group will be totally negative and expect the new manager to win every game. I will be surprised if does not unfold in this way

As has been mentioned by a number of people on here some supporters are lost for ever and there will be many who will not be the same rabid fans they once were. They will have other teams or found out that there are other things to do with the family than go to football.

Personally I will not be revising the last ten years - I am clearly in the first group mentioned above.

I expect the new manager to be given 100m to strengthen the team next season. Quite fair to expect him to get us Europa League in his first season and CL in the next. A real improvement would be the number of points amassed each season. At least 70 points next season, 75 the next and eventually minimum 80 every season to seriously challenge for the title.

Expect to see the post count on here go up as well as all us armchair experts start analysing everything again. :)

TOP GUN · **#304777**

Daz wrote:

Some shortcuts to your Wenger's departure think piece

1 Decline

2 Drunkeness

3 Arsene Who?

4 Broccoli

5 Revolutionised

6 Bestrode the game like a...

6 Invincibles

7 But Abramovich/Mourinho

8 Emirates

9 Had the game passed him by?

10 Planes/empty seats

11 Jumped/pushed

12 Send off he deserves!

Broccoli

Daz · **#304778**

Yes I agree with most of that, Lom, it is about miles more than Wenger really.

I feel a bit conflicted because I am genuinely sad that an era is over but I do find a) the repetition and b) the mawkishness of some of the tributes to be quite annoying.

Daz · **#304779**

Another good thing about smaller clubs and that Wenger not responsible for.

Saturday afternoon.

Going to the football.

Remember that?

TOP GUN · **#304780**

Watching some of the tributes envokes a strange feeling.

When they stick the honours list up all you can think of is "hmmn 3 titles in 22 years " Then your watching that Gazidis gushing press conference when he's trying to compare Wengers work to that of Ghandi and that he can never be replaced. I mean *%^@*** hell, he manages a football team.

Bob Wilson said on the radio that Wenger is in the top 3 human beings of all time. I mean Christ who are the other 2 Jim Bowen and David Icke.

I'm not saying a moment of reflection is inappropriate and people remembering his achievements is in order but nobody is mentioning we're 6th in the league and well adrift and he leaves the squad In a terrible state with departures incoming and a whole new defence required.

Funny feeling

grantyboy · **#304781**

TOP GUN wrote:

Watching some of the tributes envokes a strange feeling.

When they stick the honours list up all you can think of is "hmmn 3 titles in 22 years " Then your watching that Gazidis gushing press conference when he's trying to compare Wengers work to that of Ghandi and that he can never be replaced. I mean *%^@*** hell, he manages a football team.

Bob Wilson said on the radio that Wenger is in the top 3 human beings of all time. I mean Christ who are the other 2 Jim Bowen and David Icke.

I'm not saying a moment of reflection is inappropriate and people remembering his achievements is in order but nobody is mentioning we're 6th in the league and well adrift and he leaves the squad In a terrible state with departures incoming and a whole new defence required.

Funny feeling

No funny feeling here TG. He overstayed his welcome by 8 years and is getting paid 11 millions to walk away. Ive watched countless replays of the good times over the years so have no nostalgia about Wenger leaving whatsoever. Gloriously happy that he's finally going.

Decaf · **#304782**

lomekian wrote:

TOP GUN wrote:

Bob Wilson said on the radio that Wenger is in the top 3 human beings of all time. I mean Christ who are the other 2 Jim Bowen and David Icke.

He said top 3 men that he had known....

1. I wouldn't even put Wenger in the top tier of managers, excellent though he was.
2. A negative that stands out even more than the final years (which are understandable--a matter of not disposing of product at the used-by date) is how sh*te we were in Europe. That gawd-awful Uefa Cup final, and the defeat-from-the-jaws-of-victory efforts against Liverpool and Chelsea in the CL were even worse than the array of humiliating thrashings and no-show efforts. For me they encapsulated Wenger's main limitations, even in his best years.
2. So, stating the obvious, AW <<< Sir Alex Ferguson.
3. Brocolli
4. etc.

Decaf · **#304783**

TOP GUN wrote:

Watching some of the tributes envokes a strange feeling.

When they stick the honours list up all you can think of is "hmmn 3 titles in 22 years " Then your watching that Gazidis gushing press conference when he's trying to compare Wengers work to that of Ghandi and that he can never be replaced. I mean *%^@*** hell, he manages a football team.

Bob Wilson said on the radio that Wenger is in the top 3 human beings of all time. I mean Christ who are the other 2 Jim Bowen and David Icke.

I'm not saying a moment of reflection is inappropriate and people remembering his achievements is in order but nobody is mentioning we're 6th in the league and well adrift and he leaves the squad In a terrible state with departures incoming and a whole new defence required.

Funny feeling

To be fair, Top Gun, it is hard to strike that fine balance between mawkishness and the hard truth when giving farewell speeches and obituaries. It is quite natural to fend off the whole balance thing with a bargepole and lay on the praise with a trowel.

Niall · **#304784**

Not that I want to give any credence to Top Guns in my view, largely idiotic posts on Wenger, but we were robbed that night at Anfield by a last minute dive by Ryan Babel.

That was one of the sorest nights for me in Wenger's reign.

TOP GUN · **#304785**

Niall wrote:

Not that I want to give any credence to Top Guns in my view, largely idiotic posts on Wenger, but we were robbed that night at Anfield by a last minute dive by Ryan Babel.

That was one of the sorest nights for me in Wenger's reign.

No that was vintage Wenger and typical of the 2nd half of his reign to score a last minute winner yet incredibly still not progress. Dive or not

AmericanGooner · **#304786**

It will be interesting if we don't play well for the rest of the season. Fans will come back just to see Wenger 'one last time'. We have two big matches left (possibly more if we get into the Europa cup final)
Atletico and Man United. He can be forgiven for a loss to either. The other matches, no. It would be nice if he beats Mourinho on his way out but I won't hold my breath.

john1 · **#304787**

Niall wrote:

Arsene Wenger is a legend. Those years of 98-04 we will never see the likes of again. He lifted Arsenal to a level none of us had ever seen before and clearly couldn't be replicated in the recent post Highbury years. Will it ever? Doubt it. We saw peak Arsenal in our lifetime.

I will always "love" Arsene Wenger. Arsene will always be an Arsenal man. His pain at our defeats was obvious and I loved him for it. His put downs of Ferguson absolutely brilliant. We were invincible, double winners twice. European cup finalists. Absolutely *%^@*** amazing. We were the team.

Merci le professor for the best times supporting this club. I loved George Graham too but you surpassed him. Brilliant players, brilliant football. Going into work while we went 49 unbeaten was amazing. How it annoyed my colleagues having nothing to say
Scousers, Mancs and the odd Spurs man..silenced with begruding admiration of a top side.

But it is the right time to go. Whether that be foreseeing the push or a voluntary decision. The team is on the decline. Fans are apathetic. No longer could anyone argue you are the best man for the job. Younger blood is needed. Arsenal needs a change.

Had you gone stale? Had you lost the drive and ambition? Have you ultimately not been supported financially by the men who run the club? Has football just moved on and your philosophy is just outdated in modern terms? It will surely be revealed in time.

A sad day in regards to the passing of time. I was 23 when AW took charge. Never heard of an EEG, a Daz, a Bernard, Kiwipete or a (rip) Steve Gleiber. Time and tide waits for no man.

Onwards and upwards.

Allegri for me.

Rodgers can go do one.

Well said

Decaf · **#304788**

AmericanGooner wrote:

It will be interesting if we don't play well for the rest of the season. Fans will come back just to see Wenger 'one last time'. We have two big matches left (possibly more if we get into the Europa cup final)
Atletico and Man United. He can be forgiven for a loss to either. The other matches, no. It would be nice if he beats Mourinho on his way out but I won't hold my breath.

It would be quite something if he were finally to win a European competition AND crack Mourinho, all after he has announced his exit.

Lincoln gooner · **#304789**

My two pence worth.
All the over the top tributes are making me feel sick.

Grateful for the great memories from the first half of his tenure.

Pissed off that he's overstayed for at least 5 years, pissed off that he tarnished all that he achieved. For the first time ever I have actually felt disinterest in our games and results.
Delighted he's finally going, really thought we were going to have to suffer another year.

Bernard1 · **#304790**

Decaf wrote:

It would be quite something if he were finally to win a European competition AND crack Mourinho, all after he has announced his exit.

Arsenal beat Manchester United last season when Mourinho was their manager.

bubblechris · **#304791**

No chance this time round sandwiched between 2 Athletico legs.

Can see him resting half the team tomorrow as well. Can't see the point myself Win it first half and rest them second after parking the bus or using the youngsters.

gooner7 · **#304792**

Alexis scored a beautifully headed goal for MU. The energy of the 2 teams are good. So much better than watching our slow-mo.

Niall · **#304793**

Bus parking *%\**€

gooner7 · **#304794**

Spurs lose in yet another FA Cup SF. 8 defeats in a row. Alexis man-of-the-match.

Pete on the beach · **#304795**

gooner7 wrote:

Spurs lose in yet another FA Cup SF. 8 defeats in a row. Alexis man-of-the-match.

Wenger and spurs out in 2 days , if carlsberg did weeks :laughing7:

k

Pete on the beach · **#304796**

lomekian wrote:

The problem with Arsenal Truth that Pete quotes, is that he sees all Arsenal's ills in a vacuum, disregarding the impact of larger and more powerful trends. We've all had our say on Wenger's failings and achievements and no doubt will continue to do so, but most of the problems we have with modern football have very little to do with our manager.

As both Pete & Daz and no doubt others have found, smaller clubs with smaller budgets, more modest ambitions and a genuine relationship with their fan base are in many cases more fun and more satisfying to watch, as they do allow us to feel and experience some of the things that made us fall in love with Arsenal 30/40/50 years ago. It all feels so removed, and as such Arsenal fans have by definition become spectators over supporters. How much is this is the money-go-round of the Premier League? Certainly a lot of fans find the English top flight a less satisfying experience than in days gone by, which also reflects on the different priorities in player development (technique so often over character), the internationalisation of the game in England, the wages, the prices, the distance of the board (ours more than anyone)...

Whilst arsenal truth is pretty brutal , the fact is it has called the power crazed megalomania of Wenger’s situation for years and that he would hang on for his own needs pretty accurately imo, and also the damage it has caused to the fan base : and In the end most began to see this, the wider ills of football are a wider issue, as you know we’re not going to agree on the financial stuff regarding Wenger because too many things contradict this which we’ve done to death ; and now doesnt matter anymore anyway

Sure the alternative football experience thing applies as you say , although in my case the club have ended up in the premier league ( and look like staying there, at least for this season ) so some of the issues are the same . Having said that what BHA went through 20 years ago , has created a great bond between club - fan base and city which hopefully will last for a long time whatever happened on the pitch

Northbank Memories · **#304797**

A supporter of a football club breaths that football club, loves that football club. It’s alright ex & current players, opponents & media having a view on Wenger, but ultimately it’s the fans that make those clubs. Then fans that decide futures of boards, managers & players.

Once the games against City, Stoke, Saints and CSKA had empty seats and gates start falling, those fans are talking big. The people that really matter decide the fates of those mentioned above.

Ultimately the protests may not have worked as people steer away from them, yet the inevitable happened once the club saw those empty seats.

I’m going to enjoy going v West Ham as I support Arsenal FC, not Arsene FC.

Bored · **#304798**

On hearing the announcement yesterday my initial reaction was one of relief. We've all been waiting patiently for this moment as our league form declined over recent years with the manager obviously powerless to reverse the trend. Today, I'm still pleased that we will finally have a new manager for next season as supporting Arsenal became stale and many lost interest as a result. But I will always feel so fortunate to have witnessed the style and success which Wenger's teams delivered during the first half of his stewardship.

Bored · **#304799**

...and how sweet it was watching sperz fail to win a major trophy yet AGAIN despite having their best team in almost 2 generations.

Pete on the beach · **#304800**

Goonie wrote:

Pete on the beach wrote:

Whilst arsenal truth is pretty brutal , the fact is it has called the power crazed megalomania of Wenger’s situation for years and that he would hang on for his own needs pretty accurately imo, and also the damage it has caused to the fan base : and In the end most began to see this, the wider ills of football are a wider issue, as you know we’re not going to agree on the financial stuff regarding Wenger because too many things contradict this which we’ve done to death ; and now doesnt matter anymore anyway

Sure the alternative football experience thing applies as you say , although in my case the club have ended up in the premier league ( and look like staying there, at least for this season ) so some of the issues are the same . Having said that what BHA went through 20 years ago , has created a great bond between club - fan base and city which hopefully will last for a long time whatever happened on the pitch

What if by some cruel twist of fate (for you), Wenger ended up as BHA's manager? :1laughter:

Now there’s a thought :53big-emoticons:

Think his ego wants bigger , and the local spud is doing a grand job anyway

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