Aubameyang should be in there. 44 league goals in the last 2 seasons. He will recover his form once the team recover its form.

I reckon Wenger can get us top 6 with the current crop.

I think Arteta can turn things around. He's a bit desperate now for us to score and get a win. I'd take a 0-0 draw against Burnley to stop the losing streak and build from there. Play with a back three again and stop the full backs from bombing forward all the time - make us more solid defensively. Ditch the 30+ crosses tactic. Work on our set-pieces since scoring from open play is a bit of a problem now. Make 1-0 to The Arsenal our anthem again.

I think Pep, whose system Arteta shares would get more out of them largely on his reputation and the respect he garners. Same with Klopp. I'd also be curious if they would start Xhaka? Xhaka gets praised. Fans are scratching their heads why but he Xhaka, as an example, would likely be in the aforementioned first XI. Who would they substitute? Would Özil follow their instructions?

I agree with Bernard, our squad is relatively poor but nowhere near as bad as some would make out.

I think when you look at managers and how they have performed at their respective clubs some have produced sides who are more than the sum of the parts, some less than the some of the parts and some have more or less done what they should have done given the resources at their disposal.

Arteta is fast falling into the category of a manager whose team is less than the sum of its parts.

I agree with those saying Arteta should be getting more out of these players, but not a huge amount more, this is the same set of players who have drifted from 5th, to 6th to a very fortunate 8th in the last 3 seasons.

The most disappointing aspect of recent games is Arteta moving away from what gave cause for huge optimism last season. He displayed tactical acumen in big games to find a way to win. It could be said there was an element of fortune in some of those games with an elite striker taking his chances with an unsustainable degree of efficiency - but whilst Aubameyang has dropped the level of chances created has dropped even more alarmingly.

There are too many individuals who I don't think you can extract much more from in this squad, they have reached their level or are on the decline. Arteta needs to figure out a way of getting more from the group. For me this is one of two ways
1) go back to the 3 at the back and play games very cagey, ensuring few chances for either team and games will be nicked by 1 goal
2) pick a team based on speed, power and direct football and abandon short accurate passing in favour of high tempo, high press and less sterile possession

The second is far more risky but gives a better longer term. Either way, what we can't keep doing is play this 4-3-3 with both fullbacks bombing on and zero awareness from a slow immobile and frankly non-existant central midfield.

One of the things that unites managers who create teams of more than the sum of the parts is the dedication to discipline and 100% effort on the pitch - it is the thing that helps the underdog level the playing field. How many of our squad strike you as the sort of player who is ready and willing to do that every single minute of every single game? Of course you could argue that is Arteta's role to install that in the players, but the old phrase you can take a horse to water springs to mind.
Would I rather have Mourinho and exactly the same squad or Arteta and 4 new first 11 players. The latter for me.
Mourinho didn't inherit a squad that wasn't willing to work, it had a mental problem of collapsing and not seeing themselves as winners, but the core of the squad was always one that was ready to do the dirty work, run all day and take instruction. Perhaps only players like Aurier, Ndombele, Alli fell in to the ill disciplined category.

I agree good managers instil discipline. But along with discipline you must always be fair and appear to all the players to be fair. That is one of his failures as I pointed out yesterday with the inconsistency in his discipline. He has favourites who do not suffer similar punishment as others. This breeds devision not cohesiveness. I was amazed in the article that was posted yesterday about clearing the air, that Arteta is still trying to find out who leaked the punch up incident. This indicates to me he has devisions but it also indicated to me that he is losing perspective. I would rather he spent the time trying to work on tactics for the NLD or working with Saliba instead of being a poor copy of Inspector Morse.

Lacazette's new role as number 10 is something I think Arteta should persevere with. I think Willian is capable of playing that role too and he can play there when Lacazette needs a rest.

It’s not though. It just isn’t mate

Our first season out of the champions league was 2017-18 that season we sold Alexis Sanchez and had sold Oxlade Chamberlain and we let cazorla go. 3 players who would make a difference. Season before last we sold Aaron Ramsey a player integral to our success and scorer of winning cup final goals. We also sold Koscielny who was a stalwart for us.

The players who were making a difference are no longer with us or in ozils case on garden leave. It’s a lie to suggest the players from that period we retained like Xhaka, Mustafi, El Nenny and Bellerin were the ones driving that success. As the more and more of our quality players left the more our positioned has worsened over the last few years leaving us with the dross that existed before. The fact is most of the best players we have now are the ones that have been signed subsequently not the ones we are stuck with.

We need to stop revising history to fit a narrative

I'm not sure which corner you're fighting here, are you in the players are rubbish or Arteta is rubbish camp? I'm in the 'The players are rubbish and the biggest problem, but Arteta should be doing better but not top 4 better" camp
What I'm saying is the team has finished 5th, 6th, 5th and 8th in the last 4 seasons. (edit from my mistake above) You've added that in each of those seasons we have lost players who make a difference to the team and not sufficiently replaced them. So if we agree the squad of players is getting progressively worse over the last 4 years and even at their best the squad wasn't capable of finishing top 4 then it must be that the players aren't good enough right now as the primary reason rather than the manager must go.
I feel like we've been on the same page for this but your last post left me a bit confused.

There are a lot of players in the current squad who have been with the club for at least 2/3 seasons and haven't got in to the top 4 in any of them, leno, bellerin, Mustafi, Sokratis, chambers, lacazette, aubameyang, kolasinac, Xhaka, Holding, Elneny, Özil and a number of the academy players. I'm certainly not saying ditch that long list of players but there are still a significant amount that are not good enough for a top 4 team, and we've added players to that who are also not good enough for a top 4 team in the last 3 transfer windows.

I'm with Top Gun. The players are below the standard we need. The only thing that gives me hope is that our last two signings, Gabriel and Partey ARE good enough. Let's see what we do in this window. Arteta is not blameless by any stretch of the imagination, but at the moment he's trying to get a tune from a broken ukelele.

I believe some of the players are rubbish but Arteta is probably too rigid in his system. He’s also making some minor mistakes like not using AMN.

However our decline has been gradual over the last few years. Aaron Ramsey has been a massive loss for the club, wasn't replaced and Emery believed it caused him to get fired. Ramsey and Koscielny were big losses in 2019. Many more players before that. You can’t simply let go of all your talent and blame the new manager for not getting the same results with the dross that’s left. Aubameyang can only get us out of jail so many times and if he was going to hit a dry streak like he has then we were always going to get in trouble.

The simple reason why we are in the *%^@ right now is we have let our best players leave and not replaced them adequately. That’s it, it’s not much more than that.

Our approach to transfers, contracts and recruitment policy has been crazy.

Micro analysis of any other problems on the pitch or coaching is pointless right now.

... at the moment, certainly. I also don't buy that our players are hopeless. Sorting out our midfield is the trick.

Has Arteta been too rigid? He's played a 3-4-3, a 4-3-3 and a 4-2-2. His 4-3-3 has had variations with a true 10 or 3 flat midfielders. Aubameyang wide left and central. Willian as a false 9, Lacazette as a 10. Willock as a 10. Ceballos at right back!
This isn't to defend Arteta, if anything it feels like he's tinkered too much whilst also staying too loyal to certain players, he hasn't found a system which balances everything we need from the players we have.

Even with everyone fit there are probably 2 big holes in the midfield in Arteta's preferred 4-3-3. Someone to sit and hold or someone to go box-to-box if Partey holds, and a creative No.8. Once you fix that then you can look at the right sided centre half as none of the current multitude of options are good enough. The one area of the pitch where it feels the talent is at least there is in the front 3 positions, this is where Arteta needs to work better. How can he get the ball to them quicker? If the current team can't do it then sign someone who can. Then work on our strikers - for my money we've collected a group of forwards who are quite similar, they all are at their best being on the end of things, Aubameyang, Lacazette, Nketiah, Pépé - none of them have playmaker traits like other teams have in their front 3 positions. Even Willian and Nelson - albeit different than the 4 above- feel more like natural wide men rather than a Rosicky/Pires/Nasri type wide man who will come inside and link up and create

Might have a point

Xhaka is playing behind the centre backs at the moment
Any further back and he would in the stands.

Ceballos has revolutionised football by creating a deputy right back position where he just chases Bellerin round the pitch by running into the same space.

Martinelli playing for the U21s tonight

The Ceballos and Xhaka average positioning is very strange. A 1-5-1-3 formation? with Xhaka behind the CB's and 2 right backs

With everyone fit I'd like to see a front 6 set up as
..........Partey........
.......AMN - Saka.......
Pépé - Aubameyang - Martinelli

Parety holding the fort, AMN and Saka as to No.8's going forward. Bags of pace and excitement in that team.

Alan Davies nailed this on the Tuesday club the other week. Said it’s basically cowardice because they aren’t technically good enough so it’s easy to go hiding and look busy around the halfway line and “energetic” whilst ultimately not doing much. Ceballos in particular is strange as he was billed as an attacking midfielder when he joined yet in some games he absolutely will not get into the final third let alone Near the box.

But we have bought promising players: Partey, Pépé, Gabriel, for instance, and we've had couple of players graduate to the first team (counting ANM in that group), and one or two others on the fringes, epsecially the likes of Martinelli.

Clearly it is too early to tell whether we have 'replaced' the likes of ramsey, kos and sanchez. But I don't agree that things are as hopeless on the squad front as your analysis suggests.

Puzzling

I agree we have some good players in defence and up front but the midfield IS hopeless there is no question and it’s killing us,

Excluding the recent signing who is injured willock, Xhaka, ceballos and El Nenny compared to the departed cazorla, Özil, Ramsey, Chamberlain ?

It’s not even a comparison. We have lost all our quality in the middle of the pitch and with no engine the car won’t move.

Most would agree we are only one defender from a good back line. Gabriel needs a good partner. Saliba is expected to be that partner.

We are only one midfielder away from a good central midfield. Partey needs the right partner. We are supposed to be set at the wings (Pépé and Willian).

We might be one forward from a front line, Aubameyang being the sole one deemed good enough.

throw in Saka playing where ever deemed best. AMN. Martinelli coming back.

What am I missing?

Fact is we are sixth from bottom of the league with a woeful scoring record. Were we ever that low and goalshy under Emery? I honestly can't recall, but surely the manager must take some of the responsibility for the fall from relative riches of 8th last season? The much criticised late days of Arsene now feel almost Chapmaneque in comparison. A couple of wins will really help change the mood.

1 more central midfielder for the first 11 as you need Partey + 2 new ones plus one who can sit on the bench and rotate as somebody is bound to get injured at some point.

There you go. An easy 100 million in the current market

Exactly.

As omoh has stated, our scoring is woeful. Our goals against is not too bad. It's better than Liverpool, Leicester, Soton (who sit 5th), Man Utd, Everton and Wolves.

10 goals is the worst of all teams out of the relegation zone. Aubameyang's lack of scoring is the most glaring. Is it lack of service or bad form or both? Should Arteta swallow his pride and mend things with Özil? Would it make a difference if Özil plays and would it hurt the shape of the side Arteta is trying to put in? One could say, what shape? lol.

It is hard to see how playing Özil would make us less creative. Problem is the manager has very publicly drawn a red line on his selection, something that might just about be acceptable if the squad was packed with creators, but difficult to understand otherwise. It is clearly a point of principle which Arteta may come to regret. Face, nose, cut off, spite - rearrange!

The biggest question for me for Arteta is why has he moved away from what was successful last season? he installed a high press, low block system, with a kind of floating left wing back and left centre back who would join attacks or pop up in central midfield. Did everyone suddenly just work that one out?

Go back to the 3 at the back, and if they are all confident ball playing CBs then there is no need for Xhaka who would probably still try to drop in as a 4th centre half. Use AMN or Saka as the floating left wing back again.

We hoped gabriel and partey would allow us to play a 4-3-3 but it turns out we need 2 gabriels and 2 parteys to be able to play such an attacking formation.

I think we'll see a similar europa team on thursday. Nelson and AMN will start. If we then revert back to Xhaka/Ceballos/Willian for the game against Burnley I'm going to be so annoyed. I wish Arteta plays the likes of Xhaka, Ceballos and Willian vs Dundalk - it is win/win. They 'should' fill their boots and get some confidence back and remember how to play attacking football. If they sink like a stone it is a meaningless game but proves that they really have to dropped from the premiership team.

A lot to write about in the CL game where the teams have walked off for an alleged racist remark by a fourth official

No details other than that we lost 3-0 and had two players (Akinola and Saliba) sent off late on.

Our frequent enforced kit changes look even more daft when looking at this evening’s game between Millwall and QPR. There it is okay for a team in blue and white to play a team in blue and white. You couldn’t make it up.

News on Martinelli:

Gabriel Martinelli made his long-awaited return to action for Arsenal in the Papa John’s Trophy tonight (Tuesday).

The Brazilian sensation, 19, burst onto the scene for the Gunners last season as he became the first teenager since Nicolas Anelka to more than 10 goals for the club in a single season.

He committed his long-term future to the club with a new deal in July but was ruled out for the remainder of the year shortly afterwards having undergone knee surgery.

With Mikel Arteta’s side struggling for goals, Martinelli has recovered ahead of schedule and been back in full training in recent weeks.

And he finally got back in competitive action for Arsenal Under-21s as Steve Bould’s side took on AFC Wimbledon in the Papa John’s Trophy.

Martinelli started the game before being substituted at half-time in what appeared a planned move as he builds up to match fitness.

His role gave a hint as to where he could feature in the Arsenal first-team as he returns to try and give some added impetus to Arteta’s misfiring side.

The Gunners lined up in a 4-4-2 diamond formation, slightly different to the system used by Arteta’s side.

But, tellingly, Martinelli was deployed as one of the two central strikers alongside Swedish youngster Nikolaj Moller.

Alexandre Lacazette has recently dropped deeper into a No.10-style role as one of two central players in Mikel Arteta’s system, which could offer Martinelli a passage into the side.

Martinelli showed different sides to his game, offering some dangerous runs in behind but also dropping deeper to get onto the ball to try and breakdown the Wimbledon defence.

He regularly dropped even deeper and wide onto the right flank in a flexible role in which he was seemingly given plenty of freedom.

The Brazilian largely featured on the left-wing last season, but Mikel Arteta indicated previously he sees him as a central striker.

"[Aubameyang and Martinelli] are centre forwards but with the squad balance that we have at the moment, to play on those positions on the left we don’t have five players," Arteta said after the 1-0 win over West Ham United last season.

Martinelli’s return may not necessarily be representative of Arteta’s plans, particularly given a slightly different system used by the Under-21s behind the strikers.

But it is fair to expect the Brazilian would ideally have been deployed in a role similar to that expected of him on his first-team return.

With that in mind, it appears he could be given freedom to roam around from a central role in order to make things happen in a side devoid of creativity.

So Man U join us and spurs in the Europa league. They were awful tonight, went 3-0 down to Leipzig and it ended up 3-2 thanks to 2 late goals, a penalty that was debatable and a goal that hits Maguire’s hand as it goes in which I thought wasn’t allowed

So with that problem Arteta decided to get Willian in and pay him a large amount of money. Arteta decided not to play the most obvious tactic in the NLD - park the bus and not give them chances on the break despite Spurs being top. Arteta decided that putting in non stop crosses is a good football tactic. Arteta needs to accept a lot of responsibility. There is a combination of some poor players and incompetence from the manager. Its alright for you to say give Arteta 100mil to get new players in. That would require us to trust his judgement in players.

The problem is he is unproven as a manager. The board will likely stick with Arteta, but if they are wrong about him, the damage he will do to this club in the next 2 years, will be immense. Already I question his managerial qualities as his player management looks very poor. I have never seen him as the messiah as have others on here. It will take a lot to convince me. Starting with 6 points in the next 2 EPL games.

6 points and an improvement of at least +5 on GD

I'm willing to wager a decent amount that Stan has no idea where we are in the table and even if he did, he is not nearly as concerned as some would think an owner should.

I echo that. As long as Xhaka, Willian and Ceballos are absent from the team, I echo it 100%

Xhaka very often runs into the penalty box whenever we are being attacked. I would expect him to regularly be just outside our penalty box to pick up the loose attacking midfielders (Toreira almost always does this for us, and with grit). Was that through Arteta's coaching or simply his lack of awareness? A top class DM would take a quick glance and move to positions to prevent any easy passage towards our goal. Be it in taking on the marauding player, or the be near some loose player most likely to receive the ball.

I believe he is a very nice guy and probably one of the leaders outside of the field. But, not good enough in play.