I looked for signs of progress. I didn't see any.

Any midfield with Xhaka will require someone who is dynamic and can cover a lot of ground to make up for Xhaka's lack of pace ability to defend. That partner will also need to know Xhaka's movements very, very well ala Vieira and Petit. Even Vieira and Cesc (You know I'm going to throw Cesc in there).

The match was over when we went a man down. I don't think we fault a side for not having enough shots on goal away at City a man down. It's going to have to be a Wimbledon of years past, route 1, and hope for the best.

It could be Arteta's strategy to not to take the match seriously knowing the unlikelihood of getting anything out of it.

I don't think last night told us anything we didn't already know, and with the calamitous double mistake from Luiz ending the game and any chance we had of doing anything productive it is hard to judge other individuals.
I do agree on the number of players who just don't seem interested or motivated. It has been a general malaise of the club for too long. There are teams lower down the league, with less money, less status and far less talented players who at least manage to all pull in the same direction and give the absolute maximum to the cause even if the result doesn't end up with a win or european football or whatever the team's goals may be.
Arsenal cannot be a place players come for a big pay day, we need to get our wages in check. We're paying champions league wages to players who aren't even Europa League standard right now. It is totally unsustainable. I'm still in the camp that thinks Arteta can be tough enough to get rid of the bad apples and cultivate the right atmosphere but he needs help from the clubs hierarchy. Time to ditch this nonsense 'connections' approach to transfers. Buying players based on the level of friendship with agents. How in any industry is that better than scouting the best player for the position and getting him for a price that is good value and sustainable for the club?
There needs to be a huge turnover in playing staff and we're entering a summer when transfer business is likely to be at an all time low.

Dismal night at the office but I think Arteta got the approach correct to hit on the counter attack. Really bad decisions in possession in the first half where we could have been in with a couple of great chances as Wright explains below:



After that it was the Luiz show. What an absolute clown, he has to go. Claiming his head wasn't in the right place as a contract offer has not been forthcoming. No, that was just pure shite Luiz. No point analyzing the rest in any detail. Didn't fancy us to win with 11 v 11 and certainly didn't expect much more after the sending off, in fact Leno did brilliantly to keep the score down.

When we had 11 men on the pitch we really struggled to pick a pass through the six players City kept high in our half, the press from them was incredible but we need more quality in the midfield area. Thought Ceballos was poor again though perhaps harsh to single him out.

Chelsea have completed the signing of Werner for £52m. I think it is a very astute signing. He doesn't feel like he's going to be one of those expensive flops. Only 23 I think, bags of pace and bags of goals. £52m is pretty cheap for top level strikers, especially when you see the likes of Maddison and Grealish having £80m price tags on their heads.

I think there’s more chance of our friend from across the Atlantic stopping moaning about Mustafi or giving up his personal worship of Fabregas than there is of a huge turnover in playing staff this summer.

I know Ash may have disagreed with me a bit, but I still see the club’s main problem as Kroenke’s ownership. Buying this player and selling that player, a few times over, is as I said what fans would do. The lack of ambition to win trophies seems central to his ownership strategy. The focal point of it. If Liverpool’s owners got rat arsed and had swapped their entire squad for Arsenal’s last summer, I’m still not convinced that under Stan we’d have won the title. Good grief, Bayern won their eighth Bundesliga title on the spin on Tuesday. Had KSE bought them instead of Arsenal, my money would have been on Dortmund coming top. I’ll go even further. If Stan owned Celtic, I reckon Rangers might have won the Scottish title.

I realise I can’t prove any of this. But Stan has said winning trophies isn’t what he bought Arsenal to do, even if he’s hinted at more ‘politically acceptable’ aims (to the fan base) since. I just don’t think buying and selling players addresses Arsenal’s primary problem. KSE’s ownership.

Some may say he deserves everything he gets but I thought Luiz was a tad unlucky last night. Sure it was a foul and therefore a pen, but it wasn't violent or dangerous and Mahrez wasn't in the act of scoring, so did it have to be a red? I thought the rules had changed to avoid this 'double jeopardy'.

I don't dislike David Luiz as a person, he's seems a decent enough guy who is clearly popular in the dressing room.

However, we need to move on from second rate defenders, which is really what he is. Great on the ball but a second rate defender. You might get away with his lapses and mistakes if you had VVD next to him but we don't. For all his ballplaying qualities, he's not what we need. We need proper defenders.

Arteta's decision to play Nketiah, Willock and Saka all together in one of the two toughest away games of the season makes little sense, unless he was basically writing off the game and keeping players fresh for more winnable games.

Just thought I would pop back from my enforced absence to say yesterday’s game was probably the worst thing I’ve ever witnessed in my arsenal supporting life.

Players playing in an empty lifeless stadium with piped in fan noise going through the motions for no reason at all other than to achieve their exorbitant salary they don’t deserve and the club’s advertising revenue commitments and that’s it.

Players who no longer want to be with the club going through the motions, Luiz, Aubameyang, Lacazette and mr absentee Özil.

Youngsters like willock out of their depth chucked in the deep end.

A manager so frustrated he just wants to play youngsters who he knows are likely to form part of our future even at the expense of more mature talent.

Then you turn on the radio today and listen to Raul Sanelhis mate Kia joorbachin talking like he’s on the board and owns the club as he ponders which duff player like Cédric soares he wants to flog us next.

The only enjoyable thing was watching Tierney charge about like a nutter the first 20 minutes.

Should have voided the whole season. Total mess

You son of a... you couldn’t just let me have it could you I knew we’d lose by three, that’s why I put no money on it so as not to dilute the misery. My victory could be pure, but no, here you come to sully that too. This forum has thankfully been free of this kind of pedantry that makes it the place of peace and harmony we all know and love...

After our injuries I thought oh well, I hope he’s not too injured but hopefully that will even it up a bit, the bad luck is shared out. Him being a young inexperienced player meant I couldn’t even be that sanguine about it, horrible thing to happen. I bemoaned being robbed of looking at the positive.

Thank you kindly. I still haven’t got over the shock him arriving I was so focused on the labour I forgot why we were there! The wife keeps laughing as she remembers my face when I saw him!

I’m sure there must be examples of clubs having a modicum of success under ‘bad’ owners. I think basically we could still be scraping fourth under Kreonke’s ownership but I think it would absolutely be a barrier to competing with City and Liverpool. The largest failures seem to be managing contracts and scouting players, although I can think of a few others... However I won’t really disagree with you too much, Kreonke isn’t a good owner regardless of the money he does or doesn’t put in. We’re part of his portfolio and that’s it. Not a recipe for excellence.

I think you have to be aiming for 1st and then see where you end up. If you’ve already accepted fourth the slide seems inevitable. The problem with punching above your weight is that financially you could punch yourself out, the most extreme example being Leeds. So I can see the logic of not really trying to win the thing for a while, it just can lead to the type of malaise we’re seeing right now.

Interestingly, in late December 2019 the worth of Fenway Sports Group, the owners of Liverpool so their equivalent to Kroenke Sports Enterprises, was stated as $6.6 billion. Forbes stated Stan Kroenke’s worth in 2020 to be $10.0 billion. So reports suggest Arsenal’s owner is appreciably richer than Liverpool’s.

Couldn't agree more TG. Don't give me all this bollocks about sporting integrity, Project Restart is an exercise in box ticking to ensure the clubs don't have to pay back any money to Sky and BT. Bloody awful.

I am happy to be corrected but at the moment I do not believe we have more than four or five players who are Champion League standard.

Leno and the two full backs probably and maybe Aubameyang.

Some of the youngsters show promise. Saka and Martinelli certainly do. But they are developing and youngster are often out of their depth in a poor team.

I doubt if any of our team would get in the Liverpool or City first 11. Not sure if many would get into the Totts or Chavs first 11 either. Certainly not in the Chavs first 11 next season after what they are spending.

I used to think we were three or four new players away from a quality squad. Pretty certain we are 15 or 16 players away from a good squad now.

Mari out for the season.

Makes it more difficult to decide whether to sign him permanently. Going to miss the 10 audition games and lots of training that would have helped make up the mind.
Is there anyone out there available for £7-8m as good as Mari?

I suspect many managers will be faced with selection based on who is actually match fit. Some players may have let it slide a bit during lockdown and not come back as fit as they should. Talent and ability won't count for much if you're struggling to last for 45 minutes

We've really let things drift. Central midfield and central defence is atrocious at the moment. Plenty of bodies but all a bit 'meh'

In our next 6 prem games we have less rest between matches than our opponents

I can't agree with you putting Saka in this list. He should be a first starter every time. Miles ahead of Tierney and many others. But the lack of Martinelli makes no sense. Would be in the side ahead of Lacazette.

I am calling out Arteta on his promises about reputation meant nothing and everyone starts even. His continually picking Luiz, Cellabos (after he had the big moan) Lacazette does not fit with his principles.

I have seen nothing, other than the Özil situation, which gives me any faith in Arteta. We have not even started developing a style of play and yesterday I saw nothing to convince me there is a way forward. He seems to have nothing more to say than he wants to keep Aubameyang.

In summary we have a large number of players who are in pre-retirement employment earning big money, a manager who has yet to prove he is not well out of his depth, financial problems and a number of potentially good young players who may very well look elsewhere. The only way it could be more disappointing is if we had employed Jose.

This BBC news article gives me a great deal of concern.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/53101049

Luiz contract ends on 30 June and he wants a 2 year extension on his contract and the club only want to give 12 months. If the club even give him 12 months they are just plainly f%&$#n stupid. But then we have a proven history of poor decisions so why change wwhat you do badly.

I want this clown out of the club by 1 July and he can take a few of his cheer squad in the dressing room with him.

I think he is working towards his new team selection in the next season. Let the younger players play together more in competitive games.

It just seems like the club isn't committed to getting the best central defense it can. It seems like their heads are turned by any new attacker or creating midfield player that seems a bargain. Both City and Liverpool built their sides with dominating CBs (Kompany, van Dijk, etc.). Of all the clubs in the league we should know better. Our backline was the most famous and even in a movie our offside trap was mentioned, whose name escapes me.

Saliba is a good start, but still young. Luiz was a stop gap. He was never meant to be long term. Mustafa has not worked out obviously. There is no way in the 7 hells you can contend with him at the back no matter how much he seems to be playing better under Arteta. The full back positions are strong but central defense is a mess. I'd trade central defense with almost anyone in the league.

Roma want Mkhitaryan to move permanently, that’s great news, we seem to be some way apart on the price of the transfer and so we may have to take a bit of a hit to get his £200k a week wages off the books.
There’s also talk of a swap deal with Roma’s Justin Kluivert who surprise, surprise has the same agent as Mkhitaryan....Mina Raiola.

Kluivert plays right wing where we have Pépé and Nelson and others who can play there. He hasn’t exactly set the world alight at Roma. It makes no sense other than it would grease the pockets of Raiola nicely

If we want to use Mkhitaryan to get a player from Roma then Pellegrini would be a much better purchase. 23, central midfield, can sit, go box to box or create, good passing range and is 6ft 2 and strong. Absolutes fits the profile for what we need in CM

Why aren't we looking at Roma's defenders first? I had no idea Chris Smalling was there. We need defenders. I'd much rather making a deal for their better defenders than another attacking player in a position we are already well stocked in.

(and offer them Mustafi as an inducement)

Smalling is only on loan at Roma, so couldn't be included in any swap deal with them

Did Mustafi have an affair with your girlfriend the last time he went to the USA?

Bernard, when you write 'girlfriend' you are making assumptions.

Looking at our options in central defence, now that Mari has joined Chambers on the crocks list: we have Mustafi, Sokratis, Holding (if he's fit now) and, God help us, Luiz once he's back from suspension. Mavropanos is out on loan. After that it's shifting a fullback, with Kolasinac and Tierney the two most likely.
So taking all that into account Mustafi is probably our best central defender right now, whether or not he shagged American's girlfriend.

Just spoke to a Watford fan who said apart from Aubameyang and Leno no Arsenal player gets in the Watford team. I couldn’t really disagree with him. (The only caveat being young players with potential) How we’re not bottom half is a bit perplexing to me right now. I know things look worse every time we play Man City but honestly it’s looking really, really depressing for the foreseeable.

I understand the point about which players would or wouldn't get in other clubs first 11's but if a Watford fan thinks a combined 11 would have 9 Watford players to 2 from Arsenal then 1 of these 3 things are true
1. Watford have massively under performed
2. Arsenal have overachieved with a bottom 3 squad
3. The watford fan is slightly delusional and generally the quality of players and team is reflected by their position in the league.
I can't recall who Watford's full backs are but are they really better than bellerin or tierney. Watofrd are the 2nd lowest scorers in the league but 3 of their front 4 are better than Arsenal?

I can certainly agree when comparisons are made with Liverpool and City etc and no doubt we lack the required quality in our squad but we aren't Watford

8 first team defenders, 3 are injured, 2 on loan, 1 suspended, 1 fit and 1 only recently fit from a long term ACL injury.

I'm sure we'll see one of Medley or Ballard on the bench. Tierney could play there with Mustafi if Holding isn't deemed ready.

Give it a week and we will be bottom half. The sooner this farce of a season is over, the better.

Arsenal's transfer needs have been as much about who we can get rid of as who we buy. There has been a large turnover of players in the last couple of seasons but we've still struggled to fully get rid of experienced players not up to scratch or not performing.
Some players have been moved on to generate money like Iwobi but he was far from the biggest problem we had.
Last season Ospina and Jenkinson leaving was overdue. Welbeck needed a fresh start but we shouldn't have let his contract run down. Ramsey for free was shocking. Koscielny and Monreal were past their best but didn't exactly let us down in their career with us. And we could only shift Elneny and Mkhitaryan on loan

Season before that: Big financial hit on Perez, Joel Campbell left for peanuts and Wilshere, Cazorla, Mertesacker all left for free for various reasons

Meanwhile we still have plenty to move on. It feels important that we can somehow move past certain players so we can really start a fresh. Luiz and Özil would be top of the list for me. Mustafi and Xhaka have at least both improved under Arteta.

Rich, years of mismanagement under a disinterested owner, a chief executive who was full of it, and a manager well past his sell by date have lead us to where we are now. Of the 3, the one you'd want to get rid of the most is sadly the one still there, and while he remains, we're *%^@**.

Flamengo have confirmed Arsenal will make Mari’s deal permanent. Nothing from Arsenal yet

Being that there's been a lot of talk on here about player wages, here's this....

For £10m permanent deal if it happens.