Supporters Forum

Rich · **#391321**

socrates wrote:

It's hard to see where all this City stuff ends.

They may well win this case, and then what?

Do the other clubs just say OK that's fine no more limits on spending, knowing full well that City and Newcastle have bottomless pockets and any sense of financial fair play will be lost forever.

Or do the PL and the clubs make a stand and start a new league, minus City and Newcastle and anyone else who does not want to abide by the rules.

In truth I can see both sides of this argument. How does a little club ever become a big club without having the some sort of financial advantage? It's been like this for every really. If you pay the biggest transfer fees and wages the very best players eventually gravitate towards your club.

By the same token, allowing a nation state to spend obscence amounts of money, far in excess of anyone else, with no need to balance the books makes any sense of fair play impossible and removes the very essence of a competitive league. Not to mention the inflationary pressures that result.

Had it not been for the newly imposed FFP rules then there is little doubt Newcastle would now be dining at the top table. Some might say but why shouldn't they? Why should United, Liverpool, Arsenal etc always have a financial advantage based on history and fanbase.

No idea what the answer is. It's a mess.

City can still ‘earn’ as much as the top clubs through fair means though. The sponsorship deals just need to be a fair market rate. I’d say that irrespective of the size of the fan base City with 6 titles in 7 years could make a good case for as a minimum matching the best deal brokered by any top club. What they can’t justify is their sponsorship deals being 10 times what anyone else is able to raise. And they surely can’t defend the evidence that showed they actively tried to hide where the money was coming from.

john1 · **#391322**

DHD wrote:

Think I might've posted something to this effect 5 years ago. Please excuse:

On this day, at this time 80 years ago, apart from being a second generation Gooner, my old man was a Pilot Officer with 53 Squadron of the RAF. His Squadron were patrolling the English Channel for D-Day. He was 23 years old, and a Navigator/Observer in a B-24 ‘Liberator’ flying out of St Eval in Cornwall. He was the ranking officer and probably the eldest in his crew of 10-12 men; there were around 10-15 planes in his Squadron for D-Day.

The first line of his logbook shows his activity on that day - he took off at 01:10 on 06/06/1944, and they patrolled up and down, backwards and forwards across the channel (between the Scillies and Ushant) for 12 hours looking for U Boats.

They were ordered to fly very low and very slow (about 80 mph and 500ft). This is not what the large but lightly armoured Liberator was designed to do. At such a speed and height flying during daylight for this amount of time, it was like a ‘turkey shoot’; none of the squadron expected to return thanks to their orders. They wrote goodbye letters to their families and handed them to the Padre along with their valuables.

And then they all took off as ordered.

And yes, 80 years ago, more than half the planes in the Squadron were indeed shot down. All crews lost. Fortunately, Pilot Officer My Old Man's crew survived.

The stuff our forefathers did for us cannot, and never will be, forgotten.

Sobering stuff that should put some of our current domestic worries into perspective.

Andy Green · **#391323**

john1 wrote:

DHD wrote:

Think I might've posted something to this effect 5 years ago. Please excuse:

On this day, at this time 80 years ago, apart from being a second generation Gooner, my old man was a Pilot Officer with 53 Squadron of the RAF. His Squadron were patrolling the English Channel for D-Day. He was 23 years old, and a Navigator/Observer in a B-24 ‘Liberator’ flying out of St Eval in Cornwall. He was the ranking officer and probably the eldest in his crew of 10-12 men; there were around 10-15 planes in his Squadron for D-Day.

The first line of his logbook shows his activity on that day - he took off at 01:10 on 06/06/1944, and they patrolled up and down, backwards and forwards across the channel (between the Scillies and Ushant) for 12 hours looking for U Boats.

They were ordered to fly very low and very slow (about 80 mph and 500ft). This is not what the large but lightly armoured Liberator was designed to do. At such a speed and height flying during daylight for this amount of time, it was like a ‘turkey shoot’; none of the squadron expected to return thanks to their orders. They wrote goodbye letters to their families and handed them to the Padre along with their valuables.

And then they all took off as ordered.

And yes, 80 years ago, more than half the planes in the Squadron were indeed shot down. All crews lost. Fortunately, Pilot Officer My Old Man's crew survived.

The stuff our forefathers did for us cannot, and never will be, forgotten.

Sobering stuff that should put some of our current domestic worries into perspective.

Lovely stuff DHD and John. Thank you. Lest we forget the ultimate sacrifice by these brave souls.

On a slightly separate note I know of a few guys in this area(Philadelphia) who have ventured over this week to pay respects to family/loved ones ....many lives were lost from this region on that day....they are combining it with a trip to London where the local baseball team The Phillies are scheduled to play two divisional games against arch enemies.... the New York Mets..... this weekend

AmericanGooner · **#391324**

DHD wrote:

Think I might've posted something to this effect 5 years ago. Please excuse:

On this day, at this time 80 years ago, apart from being a second generation Gooner, my old man was a Pilot Officer with 53 Squadron of the RAF. His Squadron were patrolling the English Channel for D-Day. He was 23 years old, and a Navigator/Observer in a B-24 ‘Liberator’ flying out of St Eval in Cornwall. He was the ranking officer and probably the eldest in his crew of 10-12 men; there were around 10-15 planes in his Squadron for D-Day.

The first line of his logbook shows his activity on that day - he took off at 01:10 on 06/06/1944, and they patrolled up and down, backwards and forwards across the channel (between the Scillies and Ushant) for 12 hours looking for U Boats.

They were ordered to fly very low and very slow (about 80 mph and 500ft). This is not what the large but lightly armoured Liberator was designed to do. At such a speed and height flying during daylight for this amount of time, it was like a ‘turkey shoot’; none of the squadron expected to return thanks to their orders. They wrote goodbye letters to their families and handed them to the Padre along with their valuables.

And then they all took off as ordered.

And yes, 80 years ago, more than half the planes in the Squadron were indeed shot down. All crews lost. Fortunately, Pilot Officer My Old Man's crew survived.

Fantastic story. :58big-emoticons:

One of these days I may share some of my eldest brother's experience in 'recon' in Vietnam. That generation of your father's time DHD is really the backbone of the country.

I fear the younger generation don't know enough or care enough of the sacrifice of men like your father.

TOP GUN · **#391325**

DHD wrote:

john1 wrote:

Hi Soc,

There was an interesting report on R4 a month or so back where it was claimed that the Saudis invested in City as a 'soft power' move to get their main target, which was to buy up huge swathes of the north side of Manchester city centre and get easy planning permission for all sorts of developments.

According to the report, the amount of investment in building a property portfolio, along with the 'schmoozing' of local dignitaries, councillors, planning inspectors etc., dwarfs what's been 'invested' in the club.

No idea what the truth of that is, but it seems to follow a pattern as I believe something similar happened at PSG regarding large parts of Paris.

Follow the money.

There are other examples of football-led regeneration. Different business models but we did something similar at Ashburton Grove where the whole area was transformed from waste-land and railway sidings to a high-quality neighbourhood with high-value as well as affordable housing. It wouldn't have happened without Arsenal. Tottenham is another example. That whole borough used to be the a****** of creation but - washing my mouth out - it's quite a pleasant place now. Wouldn't have happened without THFC.

It’s also worth pointing out Arsenal contributed 7.8 million towards the renovation of Drayton park and Holloway Road tube stations but TFL then used it on Highbury and Islington instead for some reason. Hence everyone having to leg it to that tube after games. The new stadiums seem to be helping the local communities if we are honest though through regeneration.

Levy seemed to do a good job with the spurs stadium by using the London stadium as a stalking rabbit with Haringey council who then seemed to agree to any request they made. Arsenal had a totally different proposition with Islington who refused to comply unless certain specifications were met. The original plans included a new tube station actually in the stadium development for match day use but these were rejected because TFL refused to staff it without owning it. Think about that. Would have made such a difference ! Then there were restrictions on the height of the stadium, attendance etc etc

It’s for this reason that it’s unlikely if not impossible to expand the capacity at a later stage now as local student accommodation is there plus more regeneration planned. Forgetting the technical aspects of the rebuild of the emirates it would involve a negotiation with the council who would demand funding to redo Holloway Road and Drayton park (again) which would probably outweigh the logicality of adding another 10K seats.

West Ham also did a decent job despite the ground being a bit crap it only costs them 1.5 mill a year or something. Boris probably got a few brown paper bags for agreeing that as mayor

AmericanGooner · **#391326**

Don't know how much veracity to apply to it, but a fairly respected football podcaster said that City believe Arsenal leaked information about them to the press about their charges to affect public opinion. Also, City supposedly has one ally, possibly two, but definitely one ally in all this: Chelsea.

john1 · **#391327**

Andy Green wrote:

john1 wrote:

The stuff our forefathers did for us cannot, and never will be, forgotten.

Sobering stuff that should put some of our current domestic worries into perspective.

Lovely stuff DHD and John. Thank you. Lest we forget the ultimate sacrifice by these brave souls.

On a slightly separate note I know of a few guys in this area(Philadelphia) who have ventured over this week to pay respects to family/loved ones ....many lives were lost from this region on that day....they are combining it with a trip to London where the local baseball team The Phillies are scheduled to play two divisional games against arch enemies.... the New York Mets..... this weekend

My godfather (an Uncle) shot and killed a German post D-Day.

He was my favourite Uncle. He was a mobile butcher, and I loved, on the odd occasion i was invited to go with him, to accompany him on his 'rounds'. (Non-refrigerated Vauxhall Vivan van). He was also an angler, and I loved to go with him on Sundays and fish for salmon, before disease and over fishing killed them off.

He never spoke about his war experiences; I only found out about the killing after his death. His eldest son (my cousin) said he (my Uncle) never had a good night's sleep in all the time he knew him.

Another Uncle was shot in the stomach; his mate (from the same village as him) went out, captured two Germans, and made them carry my uncle back to a first aid post. (He survived).

My dad's cousin, an Australian, came over to fly Lancaster bombers. Of the 34 lads he came over with, 3 went home.

We don't know we're born.

Gaz from Oz · **#391328**

john1 wrote:

Andy Green wrote:

Lovely stuff DHD and John. Thank you. Lest we forget the ultimate sacrifice by these brave souls.

On a slightly separate note I know of a few guys in this area(Philadelphia) who have ventured over this week to pay respects to family/loved ones ....many lives were lost from this region on that day....they are combining it with a trip to London where the local baseball team The Phillies are scheduled to play two divisional games against arch enemies.... the New York Mets..... this weekend

My godfather (an Uncle) shot and killed a German post D-Day.

He was my favourite Uncle. He was a mobile butcher, and I loved, on the odd occasion i was invited to go with him, to accompany him on his 'rounds'. (Non-refrigerated Vauxhall Vivan van). He was also an angler, and I loved to go with him on Sundays and fish for salmon, before disease and over fishing killed them off.

He never spoke about his war experiences; I only found out about the killing after his death. His eldest son (my cousin) said he (my Uncle) never had a good night's sleep in all the time he knew him.

Another Uncle was shot in the stomach; his mate (from the same village as him) went out, captured two Germans, and made them carry my uncle back to a first aid post. (He survived).

My dad's cousin, an Australian, came over to fly Lancaster bombers. Of the 34 lads he came over with, 3 went home.

We don't know we're born.

Well said.

Rich · **#391329**

If we can only go big on a midfielder OR a striker what would you want. for example the choices could be:

Isak + Onana......vs......Sesko + Guimares

I think as a minimum we'll see 4 signings
back up GK
left sided defender
central mid
striker

The rest depends on outgoings and whether Arteta feels he has suitable cover from someone like Jesus for the right wing. the left CM position really depends on outgoings as Emile Smith Rowe, Partey, Zinchenko and Vieira can all feasibly play there and none have certain futures with us right now

AmericanGooner · **#391330**

That's a tough one Rich, very tough. Immediate impact, I'll go with the former, but I think its possible, Sesko could develop physically into Haaland lite with much better dribbling. If we got either I'd be happy.

old man of hoy · **#391331**

DHD wrote:

Think I might've posted something to this effect 5 years ago. Please excuse:

On this day, at this time 80 years ago, apart from being a second generation Gooner, my old man was a Pilot Officer with 53 Squadron of the RAF. His Squadron were patrolling the English Channel for D-Day. He was 23 years old, and a Navigator/Observer in a B-24 ‘Liberator’ flying out of St Eval in Cornwall. He was the ranking officer and probably the eldest in his crew of 10-12 men; there were around 10-15 planes in his Squadron for D-Day.

The first line of his logbook shows his activity on that day - he took off at 01:10 on 06/06/1944, and they patrolled up and down, backwards and forwards across the channel (between the Scillies and Ushant) for 12 hours looking for U Boats.

They were ordered to fly very low and very slow (about 80 mph and 500ft). This is not what the large but lightly armoured Liberator was designed to do. At such a speed and height flying during daylight for this amount of time, it was like a ‘turkey shoot’; none of the squadron expected to return thanks to their orders. They wrote goodbye letters to their families and handed them to the Padre along with their valuables.

And then they all took off as ordered.

And yes, 80 years ago, more than half the planes in the Squadron were indeed shot down. All crews lost. Fortunately, Pilot Officer My Old Man's crew survived.

Our everlasting thanks go to your father and his like.

TOP GUN · **#391332**

This is absolutely remarkable

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4nnz0w41kvo

It’s own goal after own goal. Keep this up and they will get utterly wiped out.

TOP GUN · **#391333**

My grandad also shot a German btw.

His contribution should be forgotten this week.

Please note though not during the war. It was Benidorm early 60s, argument over a sun lounger

AmericanGooner · **#391334**

America historians refer to WW2 generation as 'the greatest generation'. I'd add as great the northern states of the Civil War.

mcquilkie · **#391335**

old man of hoy wrote:

DHD wrote:

Think I might've posted something to this effect 5 years ago. Please excuse:

On this day, at this time 80 years ago, apart from being a second generation Gooner, my old man was a Pilot Officer with 53 Squadron of the RAF. His Squadron were patrolling the English Channel for D-Day. He was 23 years old, and a Navigator/Observer in a B-24 ‘Liberator’ flying out of St Eval in Cornwall. He was the ranking officer and probably the eldest in his crew of 10-12 men; there were around 10-15 planes in his Squadron for D-Day.

The first line of his logbook shows his activity on that day - he took off at 01:10 on 06/06/1944, and they patrolled up and down, backwards and forwards across the channel (between the Scillies and Ushant) for 12 hours looking for U Boats.

They were ordered to fly very low and very slow (about 80 mph and 500ft). This is not what the large but lightly armoured Liberator was designed to do. At such a speed and height flying during daylight for this amount of time, it was like a ‘turkey shoot’; none of the squadron expected to return thanks to their orders. They wrote goodbye letters to their families and handed them to the Padre along with their valuables.

And then they all took off as ordered.

And yes, 80 years ago, more than half the planes in the Squadron were indeed shot down. All crews lost. Fortunately, Pilot Officer My Old Man's crew survived.

Our everlasting thanks go to your father and his like.

Absolutely.

Rich · **#391336**

Saliba 3rd in Arsenal player of the season
Rice 2nd in player of the season

1st TBC - I'd expect Ødegaard.

Hard for Saka to not be in the top 3, and also I think Gabriel should be ahead of Saliba based on last season alone

mcquilkie · **#391337**

TOP GUN wrote:

My grandad also shot a German btw.

His contribution should be forgotten this week.

Please note though not during the war. It was Benidorm early 60s, argument over a sun lounger

Sounds like the German chap probably deserved it.

Rich · **#391338**

You can cross a couple of our rumoured targets off the list for this summer. Hato has said he wants to stay with Ajax (very sensible really, he's 18 and gets games for Ajax and is unlikely to for us), and also Joshua Zirkzee whose release clause has supposedly been triggered by AC Milan and he's keen to stay in Italy

Rich · **#391339**

Saka certainly has a zone he scores goals from (yellow dots)

warrior · **#391340**

DHD wrote:

On this day, at this time 80 years ago, apart from being a second generation Gooner, my old man was a Pilot Officer with 53 Squadron of the RAF. His Squadron were patrolling the English Channel for D-Day. He was 23 years old, and a Navigator/Observer in a B-24 ‘Liberator’ flying out of St Eval in Cornwall. He was the ranking officer and probably the eldest in his crew of 10-12 men; there were around 10-15 planes in his Squadron for D-Day.

My father was also an FE on a Liberator. He was born in 1924 and said he a few others lied about their age to get on them. He used to make models of those planes I recall but didn't speak much about the war. He was also very big into radio and antennas etc. My mum remembers hiding in the Tube during the blitz - She would have been a teenager then.

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