We are - were - 3 or 4 goals better than this lot.

How??

*%^@*** infuriating.
We were so good in the first half then we get done
Penalty yes in real time but red card no.
Var should rule that as no penalty but of course we get shanked as usual.
We are always the team you break your bad run against. They haven't won in 8 just sods law they get it against us.

If there's a way to snatch a defeat from the jaws of victory then Arsenal will find it. We should have buried them in the first half.

If ever those wise words of taking your chances when you are on top were underlined today's game just proves that point.

Never mind lads that’s a freak result

Desperately unlucky

*%^@*** joke
I'm so pissed

Simple. Only a referee can change the direction of that football match. It’s a foregone conclusion otherwise

Not a red card last season. There are countless examples.

In most of these situations I will happily accept the decision on the pitch if I see that same rule applied to every player and every team. It just isn't and we are on the rough end of these inconsistent decisions time and time again.

The rules for that Luiz incident are very clear. If we take the starting point that a foul has been comitted
If you attempt to win the ball it can only be a penalty and a yellow. If there is no attempt to play/win the ball then it is a red card - apart from accidental fouls.

So basically the ref and VAR have decided that Luiz was running back and deliberately make his knee contact the Wolves player's heel. Despite the slow motion showing that Luiz checked his own stride pattern two steps before the smallest of contacts. It is pretty much impossible to deliberately do what they are saying Luiz has done.

Not even a yellow card

Utterly ridiculous decision. The rule is intended for when a player pulls a shirt or deliberately fouls an opponent with no intention of playing the ball, not when the contact is accidental (not that I could actually see any contact).

What I will say is that David Luiz has a habit of getting caught with those little balls played in behind him.

The most fouls a prem player has ever made in a match without being yellow carded is 7 for Ayew for Palace v Arsenal, the second most is Bissouma with 6 for Brighton against Arsenal.

Of course we are going to see and feel more of the injustices against our side, just as every fan will and every club will have their own tales of woe. The thing with us though is so many of ours are complete precedent setters, there is nothing before or nothing after that you can point to and say 'well that might have been harsh but it was the same as happened to X arsenal player' or 'X Arsenal player might feel harshly done by but it also happened to Y player'

You’d take 2-1 after being down to 9 men for that amount of time, ok we dropped points, but gd didn’t take a battering.

He's been sent off on reputation. Maguire, van Dijk etc do not get sent off for that. I'm not sure Holding gets sent off for that.
We've seen tight offsides and handballs irk sides but it terms of completely swinging a match you can't get much more decisive than a penalty AND a red card - if only there was a very clear rule to stop that 'triple punishment' (including suspension) happening.....

Frustrating that would couldn't last a bit longer with 10 men. What was it only 4 minutes after half time and an absolute once a season wonder striker as well. Felt like everything was against us today - such small margins in games and things like refs that are completely out of our control.

I hope Arteta tells the team to keep going because up until the penalty we were brilliant. I can take it being a penalty, it would have been a blow and wolves would have surely been lifted for the second half, but we'd have had a fair crack at 45 minutes at 1-1 and the way we were playing I'd have backed us.

We need to consider this nothing to do with the way we've been playing, we're on a great run that has been stolen by a ref. Go again with the same attitude at Villa

What’s gutting about it is that up until the sending off we were looking more fluid and balanced than we have done in years. Attacking on both flanks despite missing our left back with Saka and Pépé causing havoc.
You just want to see more of it.

Hope Arteta sticks with that front 3 if possible and the difference in the side when Partey plays as he does xhakas running for him is incredible

Also that has cost us 4 places in the league. We'd have been above Chelsea and Spurs with a win. Some pillock will say these things even themselves out over a season.....

someone posted the rules regarding red cards in the box arguing that regardless of it being an accident the fact that the fact that there was no attempt to play means it is a red card. If that is the justification for a penalty then its clearly a loop hole or not in the spirit of how the law was intended.

"Where a player commits an offence against an opponent within their own penalty area which denies an opponent an obvious goal-scoring opportunity and the referee awards a penalty kick, the offending player is cautioned if the offence was an attempt to play the ball; in all other circumstances (e.g. holding, pulling, pushing, no possibility to play the ball etc.) the offending player must be sent off."

As for the game we should have been 3 goals up at half time, so to lose it 2-1 does feel like a freak result. Its not worth getting too despondent about but it was a great opportunity to finally push into the Europa places.

This one goes out to all the Arsenal fans. Happy Groundhog Day...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkFQHScyti0

Sadly, I think tonight's result probably ended any outside chance we had of top four. That's how much was riding on that sending off.

And a point behind 5th
That defeat really hurts because we were so good in the first half. Definitely moving in the right direction.
Saka hits the post and then offside for his superb finish.
Knew how important it was to go in ahead at half time then that happens. Real sickener.
Villa will be tough but if we play like that we have a chance. Really hope Ryan is fit though Runarsson did hold his own when he came on.

Serious question, when and who was the last player to be sent off vs Arsenal, a straight red for a bad foul? I don’t know the answer

Can you get Bruce to change the lyrics to
“One goal up, two red cards”.

Some teams get all the luck. Crazy tackle from a Saints player has them down to 10 men inside 70 seconds vs Man U. They’re 4-0 down. Still got to beat the 10 men of course but complete luck to play against such a loose cannon making that sort of tackle.

There has been a clarification to that rule that allows for yellow cards for accidental fouls

Just looking for the regular Top Gun and Rich post lauding Leno. As for Luiz I think his history got him sent off. We should be asking ourselves how did he let the player waltz thru the middle. Sending off was harsh but why Arteta picks him is totally beyond me.

How about his other centre back has been ravaged with covid apparently and hasn’t looked right since so he has no choice ? Far be it you actually manage a post without critiquing our manager.

On Leno an unfortunate mistake but you have the interesting characteristic of seeming to hate all of our best players. Congratulations you probably need a psychiatrist.

Thanks for the update Rich

If we’re to recover against Villa I think it’s important to not feel sorry for ourselves. I hope none of the players read this forum.

Funny man. You should have known the football gods would strike back after your last love in about Leno. Are you saying Luiz is one of our best players at the club. Did you see Southampton game. So Gabriel shouldn’t be on the bench at all according to you. Was he fit or not. You get yourself into such silly situations with your misguided views. Still it’s a forum and you can say what you want but don’t expect people not to call you out.

As for best players at the club- Saka, S-R, even Tierney when fit plus Martenelli are all very good. Leno is our best current keeper

No he’s a fine player but apparently he’s struggled since he got Covid 19 so you have to give the club the benefit of the doubt if they feel it’s not best to start him right now.

We all know what Luiz is and what he isn’t at this point there’s no point bitching about it but that seemed harsh today

Arteta is saying we will appeal the red. He’s not talking about disputing double jeopardy though just the player didn’t touch Luiz.

Good. It’s been shown time and time again that you can get an edge with officiating, fergietime being the prime example. Whilst that is repugnant, and the blatant intimidation of referees that has gone on is out of order, that red nosed old *%^@ being the worst example, clearly getting a sphere of influence with officials somehow can benefit you on the pitch. It’s the whine and moan approach, kick up a fuss and they might think twice about *%^@*** us over

Yep I thought it was a bad decision. The great Arsenal sides have not been worried to be down to 10 men. I thought we could have got something from the game even after Luiz went. Better that it happens this season than when we are pushing for 4th spot and such a decision costs us CL football. Some really good signs from the club recently and we can only hope it continues. Must score when we dominate.

So can I just ask what you think the club should have done in the summer with the Leno and Martinez situation?
If you want to keep both we then we can’t sign one of Partey or Gabriel
If you wanted to keep Martinez who was there ready to buy Leno - or should we have transfer listed him and hope someone bid, meanwhile his price drops all the time and we have an unhappy player.

My stance on Leno has always been against those who say we made the wrong decision in the summer, I think it was the only sensible decision the club could have made. The money was on the table and the difference between the quality of the two gk is nothing

We also need to be looking for and engineering contact in the box at every opportunity. The penalty Man U got tonight was a joke but all their players are looking for the contact any time they’re in the box. The rewards far outweigh the risk.

Yeah no one gets booked for diving anymore! The blatant dives don’t get you pens anymore, the looking for contact ones are still being given, but of course all depends what the referee gives first and if there’s a, wait for it... “clear and obvious error”.

Whilst I think these things matter, ultimately they don’t matter as much as us keeping playing like we played first half and adding the cutting edge we lacked that meant we were only one up.

Make your own luck, score 3 when you’re dominating like that and have better options than Luiz, who whilst admirable in his effort and character this season, lacks the pace over 5 yards to avoid those kinds of situations.

I posted on the forum my views. Put Leno up for sale. As an established player Leno should have brought a bigger fee and spend the money accordingly. If there were no offers for him then move to plan B - sell Martinez. I believed and still believe Martinez is a better player with the ball at his feet. Otherwise they are about equal. Quick distribution from the keeper can really make chances.

The following will not settle the “best player between Pele and Maradonna” issue but it should help indicate who was the most universally respected player between the two.

I have a book buried in all the old crap in my attic that was some kind of biography of Pele’s footballing career (forgotten the title and the author but he was I think English). But what I do remember was that it was probably the best firsts page reading of any other book I had ever read before and maybe even since except maybe for Fever Pitch.

The book begins by listing all his achievements and honours which included off the top of my head, the following

1- Up to the time of publication around the late seventies Pele had met or been introduced to more kings, queens, heads of government, associated royalty, and international dignitaries than any other person in history

2- The Brazilian Government declared him a national icon so that he couldn’t be exported,

3- The shah of Iran waited for four hours at The airport for a flight that had Pele on board that had been delayed and was just scheduled for a refuelling stop just so that he might meet him.

4- While on a visit to Hong Kong Chinese border guards left their posts just so they could see him play

5- Two warring S. American countries ( not sure but I think El Salvador and Hondurous) called a truce so that both sides could go to the game and see him for themselves

There were more examples but they are the only ones that I currently remember and I have no idea how much “poetic license the author used but I would suspect that most if not all is pretty accurate. I also have no idea how many of his footballing records which I have not listed are completely accurate but have just grown through the ages (scoring 1000 goals seems a bit over the top to me) but it does give an indication of the respect that the world at that time had for him. So the difference for me between the two players is Pele by a mile. Maradonna was loved by Argentinian and Napoli fans but he never received the respect or the honours the Pele achieved.

And finally on a tour of Australia around the early nineties to promote his autobiography he was invited to kick off the beginning of the local football season in Sydney and junior football clubs were invited to bring along a team and be photographed with him. That photo now adorns one of my walls and include myself and my three sons and I can vouch for the fact that Pele personally shook hands and spoke to every single
Person or child in every team photo which was around two dozen teams.

A truly amazing footballer and gentleman

I don't like losing obviously but it was over a rash decision than being outplayed. We have to just shrug it off and go for the next game. Luiz is why central defense is a priority. By this time I thought Saliba and Gabriel would be our primary pairing...oh well.