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Post #329481  Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:02 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
Does anyone think if the remaining North London derby was played behind closed doors you wouldn’t get Tottenham and Arsenal fans milling around outside the ground?

If it was played in the midlands?

And I think you underestimate the capability of the authorities. They got people to stop smoking in pubs and I imagine they be able to stop fans milling about.

However ... this would only happen if the disease subsided to the point that it was safe to go ahead. It is not implausible that a spell of warm weather in May or June could do the trick.

But my bet is that this won't happen, and that next season won't be able to start because of fears of a second wave of the epidemic.

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Post #329482  Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:22 pm 
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Decaf wrote:
Bernard wrote:
Does anyone think if the remaining North London derby was played behind closed doors you wouldn’t get Tottenham and Arsenal fans milling around outside the ground?

If it was played in the midlands?

And I think you underestimate the capability of the authorities. They got people to stop smoking in pubs and I imagine they be able to stop fans milling about.
Cry
However ... this would only happen if the disease subsided to the point that it was safe to go ahead. It is not implausible that a spell of warm weather in May or June could do the trick.

But my bet is that this won't happen, and that next season won't be able to start because of fears of a second wave of the epidemic.

Police will be needed wherever games are played. In the midlands, perhaps Villa still have to play Wolves? And big clubs will have supporters across the whole country. Arsenal and Tottenham will have fans in the midlands.

EDIT: Also playing all the remaining in the midlands just seems wrong. It will inevitably mean some clubs will be disadvantaged by having already played close opposition at the other team’s home ground. Yet they will have to play the same opposition in outstanding games at not only a neutral ground, but without their home fans giving them support.


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Post #329483  Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:28 pm 
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Decaf wrote:
Why are you applauding this?


I'll tell you why .....

Because Bubblechris had the nuts to question the system ... every dumb arse on the planet quoting this and that

Look it up you nematode ......... Mrs Kiwi did ....we 've had more flu deaths in the same period last year than Corona .


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Post #329484  Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:42 pm 
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kiwipete wrote:
Decaf wrote:
Why are you applauding this?


I'll tell you why .....

Because Bubblechris had the nuts to question the system ... every dumb arse on the planet quoting this and that

Look it up you nematode ......... Mrs Kiwi did ....we 've had more flu deaths in the same period last year than Corona .


I know you fishing again because your bored but Jesus

Corona is ten times more likely to kill than flu.

As for Bubblechris questioning the system! My goodness, he’s just quoting what Boris said after he did a complete about turn from the strategy of infecting 60% of us that would have killed many.


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Post #329485  Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:45 pm 
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kiwipete wrote:
Decaf wrote:
Why are you applauding this?


I'll tell you why .....

Because he had the nuts to question the system ... every dumb arse on the planet quoting this and that

Look it up you nematode ......... Mrs Kiwi did ....we 've had more flu deaths in the same period last year than Corona .

Kiwi, you really need to read up on this. Here are some simple maths. In a normal year, the annual death rate in the EU is 10 per thousand. That is total deaths from all sources. The figure is 9 per thousand in Spain. That works out at c1200 people per day. 838 people died from COVID19 in Spain yesterday.

Why on earth do you think the hospitals are heading for breaking point? There is no conspiracy here.

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Post #329486  Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 2:41 pm 
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This guy is good for unbiased summary of the covid-19 disease daily.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-4iQd9O3PQ

Some interesting stuff from S. Korea, they seem to be using Chloroquine / Hydroxychloroquine on some patients, as well as other anti-virals, and their CFR (death rate) is considerably lower than most European countries.

Quercetin may be a natural zinc ionophore which is the mechanism by which Chloroquine is 'helping' treat pneumonia in covid-19.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25050823

Not claiming to be an expert but feel this is worth note.

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Post #329487  Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 4:32 pm 
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richie wrote:
Bernard wrote:

EDIT: Also playing all the remaining in the midlands just seems wrong. It will inevitably mean some clubs will be disadvantaged by having already played close opposition at the other team’s home ground. Yet they will have to play the same opposition in outstanding games at not only a neutral ground, but without their home fans giving them support.


But if it's behind closed doors then there won't be any fans regardless where the games are played. Fans inside I mean.

There’s no way the government will allow even a closed stadium game to take place. Imagine the game where Liverpool won the title. Guaranteed that selection of fans would congregate outside the ground regardless.

It’s just not happening


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Post #329488  Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 4:35 pm 
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Here’s a sobering thought. From recent analysis here in UK, the mortality rate of patients put in intensive care with the virus is running at almost 50%.

So if you make it into IC (I’d suggest hair dye - grey hair is not ideal when selection on the basis of age is already here), it seems ventilators may be just be window dressing - better than nothing - you can’t do nothing - but realistically, it’s a flip a coin, eh?

This was the message from Italy that caused the re-think - not I suspect out of respect for the elderly per se, but because it became obvious that large numbers of them would enter the critical stage and in so doing, they would gum up the works before they die - before WE die.

Stay pissed Kiwi.


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Post #329489  Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 4:39 pm 
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richie wrote:
Bernard wrote:

EDIT: Also playing all the remaining in the midlands just seems wrong. It will inevitably mean some clubs will be disadvantaged by having already played close opposition at the other team’s home ground. Yet they will have to play the same opposition in outstanding games at not only a neutral ground, but without their home fans giving them support.


But if it's behind closed doors then there won't be any fans regardless where the games are played. Fans inside I mean.

One would think :)

Plus no real home advantage since all the teams would be based there presumably?

I'm not sure how it would work with family, though. It would take at least 5 weeks.

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Post #329490  Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 4:42 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
richie wrote:

But if it's behind closed doors then there won't be any fans regardless where the games are played. Fans inside I mean.

There’s no way the government will allow even a closed stadium game to take place. Imagine the game where Liverpool won the title. Guaranteed that selection of fans would congregate outside the ground regardless.

It’s just not happening


A nation that managed to evacuate Dunkirk can't keep a few rowdy fans off the street?

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Post #329491  Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 4:44 pm 
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DHD wrote:
Here’s a sobering thought. From recent analysis here in UK, the mortality rate of patients put in intensive care with the virus is running at almost 50%.

So if you make it into IC (I’d suggest hair dye - grey hair is not ideal when selection on the basis of age is already here), it seems ventilators may be just be window dressing - better than nothing - you can’t do nothing - but realistically, it’s a flip a coin, eh?

This was the message from Italy that caused the re-think - not I suspect out of respect for the elderly per se, but because it became obvious that large numbers of them would enter the critical stage and in so doing, they would gum up the works before they die - before WE die.

Stay pissed Kiwi.

The death rate in the UK is starting to look scary.

The worry here is that this will be the final straw in the townships. The mood is ugly to say the least.

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Post #329492  Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 4:55 pm 
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DHD wrote:
Here’s a sobering thought. From recent analysis here in UK, the mortality rate of patients put in intensive care with the virus is running at almost 50%.

So if you make it into IC (I’d suggest hair dye - grey hair is not ideal when selection on the basis of age is already here), it seems ventilators may be just be window dressing - better than nothing - you can’t do nothing - but realistically, it’s a flip a coin, eh?

This was the message from Italy that caused the re-think - not I suspect out of respect for the elderly per se, but because it became obvious that large numbers of them would enter the critical stage and in so doing, they would gum up the works before they die - before WE die.

Stay pissed Kiwi.

A good friend of mine was speaking with a radiographer last week, who is working on the scans of COVID19 patients. She told him that the lung damage is up there with the worst she has come across.

I wish people would stop comparing it with the flu. Yes, lots of people get a mild dose, but when it gets hold of someone it's vicious.

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Post #329493  Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 4:57 pm 
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Decaf wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
There’s no way the government will allow even a closed stadium game to take place. Imagine the game where Liverpool won the title. Guaranteed that selection of fans would congregate outside the ground regardless.

It’s just not happening


A nation that managed to evacuate Dunkirk can't keep a few rowdy fans off the street?

Well at the moment you’ve got people travelling all over the place and the “lockdown “ hardly being observed by many.

I’m not sure Dunkirk comes into this. A different era with people
With different values


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Post #329494  Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 5:11 pm 
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kiwipete wrote:
Zed wrote:

all supporters would be ready to kill anyone at the FA, FIFA, Sky Sports pundits, etc.

then history would show Corona Virus did have a positive side :icon_mrgreen:

:7laughter:

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Post #329495  Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 5:21 pm 
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Gaz from Oz wrote:
I see reports of the FA wanting a July restart to finish the season. Is this simply a way to placate Liverpool. The season is absolutely dead - call it off and if by a miracle football can restart around this time then start a new season in August as always.

Nothing's set in stone. At this point, there's no guarantee that the C19 will be knocked back with less casualties and more recoveries by August, let alone July. Hoping for a positive in all this obviously. All things being considered, any and all games from UK, EU, and elsewhere, could be played behind closed doors during the first 3 months or so at the start of all new seasons. Time will tell how far this C19 progresses and cases treatable to ensure a halt to that progression.

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Post #329496  Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 5:25 pm 
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Gaz from Oz wrote:
kiwipete wrote:


:laughing7: Oh yeah ...and if Arsenal were twenty points ahead in the same position as the Scousers ........ you'd scream blue murder , froth at the mouth , go out and burn down a couple of banana plantations if someone suggested what you just have .

I would but that doesn't mean I am right. The season is dead - call it.

Thing is season could be dead for some time. No one knows how long this C19 will actually do more damage over the next few months.

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Post #329497  Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 5:28 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
kiwipete wrote:
Bc
:laughing7: Oh yeah ...and if Arsenal were twenty points ahead in the same position as the Scousers ........ you'd scream blue murder , froth at the mouth , go out and burn down a couple of banana plantations if someone suggested what you just have .

I’m not arguing, if this Coronavirus stuff hadn’t been happening and Arsenal were in Liverpool’s position I’d be saying the league has to be completed. Yet I want it declared null and void.

But I’m hopelessly biased. I admit it. The thought of those scouts gits winning the title again is horrible with their cocky, self loving fans is awful. The only good things about Liverpool is that they’re not Manchester United, Tottenham or Chelsea.

If this was a title chase between Spurs/Arsenal, I know who I'd want to make sure 100% got it. :5encouragement:

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Post #329498  Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 5:42 pm 
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Gaz from Oz wrote:
Zed wrote:
:14laughter:
I've been thinking same for some time. Had this been Arsenal in same situation as Liverpool, so close to winning the title, all supporters would be ready to kill anyone at the FA, FIFA, Sky Sports pundits, etc. :15laughter:
A few think differently, I know....but...

Okay, I would like you to think of the club we are dealing with. Do you have absolute trust that playing games behind closed doors the Liverpool supporters will not try and invade the ground to watch their team win the title; that they will not congregate together to celebrate each win and then what happens? Do you start a new season immediately or do the players need a break.

I suspect many clubs will not be able to function in the lower leagues and will in affect be bankrupt and I am not sure there will be too many in the top league looking very good financially. I think it is time to take a step back and think about reorganising what is left. Would like to see a strictly enforced salary cap put in place.

Gaz, think of this being Spurs for instance. Now not saying I'd want them to get the title, (if ever such a chance arose), but I doubt their fans would be any less nauseating at this point than the Scousers. Could actually be said about any club's fans that were in pole position to win a title. Look at the PSG v Dortmund CL match on 11 March. PSG fans who defied all government orders and congregated outside the Parc de Princes stadium to cheer their side onto the quarter finals, a game played behind closed doors. Looked like more than a 1,000 fans there. The most obvious of enjoyment missed by playing behind closed doors....the roar of the crowd. No, there's no guarantee any fans will not congregate outside a stadium no matter where the closing season games are played. Be it at neutral stadiums in the Midlands, maybe some at Wembley.
I tend to agree that a salary cap should be implemented. What I still won't object to is seeing City relieved of their status.

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Post #329499  Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 6:06 pm 
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richie wrote:
Bernard wrote:
EDIT: Also playing all the remaining in the midlands just seems wrong. It will inevitably mean some clubs will be disadvantaged by having already played close opposition at the other team’s home ground. Yet they will have to play the same opposition in outstanding games at not only a neutral ground, but without their home fans giving them support.

But if it's behind closed doors then there won't be any fans regardless where the games are played. Fans inside I mean.

Exactly. Which in my view is another reason why playing games behind closed doors over a part of a season but not all of it is plain wrong.


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Post #329500  Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 6:11 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Decaf wrote:

A nation that managed to evacuate Dunkirk can't keep a few rowdy fans off the street?

Well at the moment you’ve got people travelling all over the place and the “lockdown “ hardly being observed by many.

I’m not sure Dunkirk comes into this. A different era with people
With different values

Sadly you do have a point.

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Post #329501  Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 6:31 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
richie wrote:
But if it's behind closed doors then there won't be any fans regardless where the games are played. Fans inside I mean.

Exactly. Which in my view is another reason why playing games behind closed doors over a part of a season but not all of it is plain wrong.

Stopping 3/4 of the way through and declaring it null and void would be even more wrong.

If it is impossible to finish, fair enough. Finishing behind closed doors is far from ideal but we are not dealing with ideal here. Ideal is off the table.

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Post #329502  Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 6:51 pm 
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Decaf wrote:
Stopping 3/4 of the way through and declaring it null and void would be even more wrong.

If it is impossible to finish, fair enough. Finishing behind closed doors is far from ideal but we are not dealing with ideal here. Ideal is off the table.

I don’t think it would be. It would make the two games between teams in close opposition unfair. Some would play opposition with their home support driving them on. The other team would play the same opposition on a neutral pitch with no home fans supporting them, or even their own ground minus the home support. In my view it’s plain wrong.

I would say cancelling the season and declaring it null and void is the best option. It isn’t ideal, if you want to discuss falling short of ideal. But I think it’s the fairest option.


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Post #329503  Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 7:13 pm 
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The deputy chief medical officer just said the following... the debate about how to end the season seems frankly ludicrous right now..



"So over time, probably over the next six months, we will have a three-week review. We will see where we are going.
"We need to keep that lid on - and then gradually we will be able to hopefully adjust some of the social distancing measures and gradually get us all back to normal.
"Three weeks for review, two or three months to see whether we have really squashed it but about three to six months ideally, and lots of uncertainty in that, but then to see at which point we can actually get back to normal."


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Post #329504  Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 7:28 pm 
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richie wrote:
What do you mean by home support B? There wouldn't be any supporters in the ground which was the point I was trying to make before.

I was referring to it being unfair if the two games played against each other by teams in direct opposition, whether it be fighting relegation, trying to get into the Champions League or whatever, were played in different circumstances or environments. One with a team in front of their home support. The other match when played with the ‘home’ team not having its fans supporting them, either in their own ground behind closed doors, or on a neutral pitch without fans.


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Post #329505  Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 8:09 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
kiwipete wrote:

I'll tell you why .....

Because Bubblechris had the nuts to question the system ... every dumb arse on the planet quoting this and that

Look it up you nematode ......... Mrs Kiwi did ....we 've had more flu deaths in the same period last year than Corona .


I know you fishing again because your bored but Jesus

Corona is ten times more likely to kill than flu.

As for Bubblechris questioning the system! My goodness, he’s just quoting what Boris said after he did a complete about turn from the strategy of infecting 60% of us that would have killed many.



I wasn't fishing ..... I was legless .

After drinking God knows how much vodka .... I don't even want to check the bottle it might make me feel worse ; woke Mrs Kiwi up when I decided to listen to Duanne Eddy's "Peter Gunn" at 3 am so the temperature in our house at the moment is about - 20 .


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Post #329506  Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 8:36 pm 
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On the whole play the games behind closed doors thing.

Look at what Jack Grealish has just done for exhibit A.

Sent a tweet yesterday urging people to stay at home and to protect the NHS. Then allegedly threw a house party, got pissed and crashed his Range Rover into numerous vehicles before running away from the scene and getting a mate to try and hide the evidence.

How can you stop the infection when people let alone players are pulling *%^@ like that


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Post #329507  Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 9:48 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
On the whole play the games behind closed doors thing.

Look at what Jack Grealish has just done for exhibit A.

Sent a tweet yesterday urging people to stay at home and to protect the NHS. Then allegedly threw a house party, got pissed and crashed his Range Rover into numerous vehicles before running away from the scene and getting a mate to try and hide the evidence.

How can you stop the infection when people let alone players are pulling *%^@ like that

What was he driving his Range Rover for after a party at his own place? Taking people home maybe? Jesus wept, Villa won’t be the biggest payers in the Premier League, but he’ll still be on an absolute fortune by most people’s standards and can easily afford to send everyone off in a cab with him paying the fares.

A youngster with too much money too soon?


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Post #329508  Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 9:56 pm 
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I know this is a time where football is rightly relegated to a less important position in our lives, but frankly living on the planet and the things that are going down all the time it really shouldn’t have the importance it does, but it brings a lot of joy to people’s lives and it would be pretty awful to always focus on the negatives in life, as important as they may be.

In that vein I’ve just listened to the Cesc Fabregas interview on Arseblog and I highly highly recommend it. Hints at a few answers to questions I’m sure we’ve all had, and he comes across as absolutely the kind of player we would love to have at the club now. May induce a large bout of ‘oh what could have been...’

https://arseblog.com/2020/03/episode-570-cesc-fabregas/


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Post #329509  Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 9:59 pm 
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I have no problem admitting that had Liverpool stayed unbeaten I wouldn't have been for giving them the title. :42laughter: The fair part of me would say, yes, give them the title. But the gooner in me would have said no.

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Post #329510  Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 10:48 pm 
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AmericanGooner wrote:
I have no problem admitting that had Liverpool stayed unbeaten I wouldn't have been for giving them the title. :42laughter: The fair part of me would say, yes, give them the title. But the gooner in me would have said no.

I just don’t think you can hand trophies out before they’re won. Liverpool are not mathematically certain of winning the title however likely it was. Less likely things have happened than the odds on Liverpool winning the league before this crisis. Watch some of BBC4’s scientific programmes about the creation of the universe if you want proof that anything can happen, almost whatever the odds.

However, if the season is null and voided, I can understand if City are allowed to include this season’s League Cup on their honours list. They won it.


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Post #329511  Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 12:07 am 
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TAFKAEiN wrote:
As for this season - it's done. Wrap it up.

It can't work, even before you think about the fans. Players and coaching/medical staff combined with officials would give you up to 100 people already. All in close proximity to each other. You need some stewards just to get the place open and close it up again if nothing else. Then you have to have some kind of catering for the people there. Add in maybe another 100 people to run the TV side (because you know every game would be televised) and then you've got reporters there as well. Just on the barest numbers you've got a couple of hundred people all around each other.

But even if you just get it down to the 22 on the pitch. Would you like to run around with other people's sweat etc going over you in the middle of this? You'd only need 1 player to be infected at the start for everyone to potentially be infected at the end of the 90.

Would I think differently if it was Arsenal (almost) certain of the title? I may well do, but I don't think I would. It just seems so damned crazy to even think about.
Thanks for a sensible post on this issue. It beats me that anybody can think football, or any other sport is important right now.

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Post #329512  Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 12:16 am 
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Ash wrote:
I know this is a time where football is rightly relegated to a less important position in our lives, but frankly living on the planet and the things that are going down all the time it really shouldn’t have the importance it does, but it brings a lot of joy to people’s lives and it would be pretty awful to always focus on the negatives in life, as important as they may be.

In that vein I’ve just listened to the Cesc Fabregas interview on Arseblog and I highly highly recommend it. Hints at a few answers to questions I’m sure we’ve all had, and he comes across as absolutely the kind of player we would love to have at the club now. May induce a large bout of ‘oh what could have been...’

https://arseblog.com/2020/03/episode-570-cesc-fabregas/

I also enjoyed the interview but as you say there are more important things than football. Still looking around for podcasts to keep me amused. I have started looking in depth at other audio opportunities and am listening to a number of older free audio books. Very enjoyable but you have to like things from Conan Doyle and other talented writers who are long gone.

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Post #329513  Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 12:19 am 
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kiwipete wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:

I know you fishing again because your bored but Jesus

Corona is ten times more likely to kill than flu.

As for Bubblechris questioning the system! My goodness, he’s just quoting what Boris said after he did a complete about turn from the strategy of infecting 60% of us that would have killed many.



I wasn't fishing ..... I was legless .

After drinking God knows how much vodka .... I don't even want to check the bottle it might make me feel worse ; woke Mrs Kiwi up when I decided to listen to Duanne Eddy's "Peter Gunn" at 3 am so the temperature in our house at the moment is about - 20 .

It seems that it is not only the young like Jack Grealish who are dickheads. Age does not give people increased brain power. Vodka 9 NZ 0.

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Post #329514  Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 7:19 am 
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You have to feel for the Liverpool fans. 30 years waiting for this. A certainty to win the title. They have won every honor since 1990 but are known for not winning the title and then this happens. Definitely the best PL side to date in terms of dominance. Perhaps on their way to the best top flight season ever in terms of points, etc.
Even if they are granted the title, it will have an asterisk next to it. Strange times indeed.

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Post #329515  Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 7:20 am 
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“The Premier League are planning to move clubs into quarantined training camps and play all remaining fixtures in the Midlands during June/July in a World Cup style format“


I really wouldn’t put it past them doing something ridiculous like this, the last time they had a major decision to make was when they refused to dock West Ham points for the tevez saga as it would have relegated them. That was ridiculous

Agree with the Bayern president. If you can’t finish the league by June you should simply put a red line in it and be done with it.


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Post #329516  Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:22 am 
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Post #329517  Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 9:01 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
“The Premier League are planning to move clubs into quarantined training camps and play all remaining fixtures in the Midlands during June/July in a World Cup style format“


I really wouldn’t put it past them doing something ridiculous like this, the last time they had a major decision to make was when they refused to dock West Ham points for the tevez saga as it would have relegated them. That was ridiculous

Agree with the Bayern president. If you can’t finish the league by June you should simply put a red line in it and be done with it.



Hi TG,

Football should not resume until they either have a vaccine or an effective treatment that makes it a manageable condition.

So what if the season's cancelled, this is life and death.


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Post #329518  Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 9:27 am 
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These are extraordinary times and circumstances. The EPL is an international league when you consider the number of international players. The same can be said to a lesser extent of the lower divisions where a foreign player or two is now the norm when in the past it wasn't.

Since the opening of any of the major leagues in Europe are all interwoven with players from each representative country that UEFA would convene a meeting with medical experts in attendance. Opening up the EPL impacts the countries that all the players go back to.

Just like I would hope the UN or G8 or some international body tackle the virus issue as a group, so I would hope the FA and other leagues tackle it together since the health consequences impacts all of them. We are all intertwined. Acting independent of that fact may have huge consequences.

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Post #329519  Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 9:41 am 
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Stewart Lee is *%^@*** brilliant

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... he-experts

After all this is done definitely watch him live if you get the chance


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Post #329520  Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 9:48 am 
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AmericanGooner wrote:
You have to feel for the Liverpool fans.

I don't.


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