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Post #422921  Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2023 1:10 pm 
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City loaning out Canceles to Bayern.

Very surprising and very odd timing.


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Post #422922  Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2023 1:52 pm 
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God, I hate Man UTD

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Post #422923  Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2023 1:52 pm 
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Decaf wrote:
AmericanGooner wrote:
If or when we are up comfortably against Everton and hopefully as early as possible we might start thinking of subbing Partey off since he is integral to a title run in.

This also depends on what f we pick up someone by tomorrow.

Two questions
1) What is 'comfortably'?

Even 3-0 doesn't feel comfortable these days, as we saw in the Brighton game.

2) Who do you bring on and how do you adjust the formation?

I still have memories seared in about being 4-0 up in the second half at Newcastle United.

Or how about 2 up vs Tottenham at 90 minutes (Harry Rednapp’s second game there).
Or comfortably ahead at half time at Aston Villa before a parachutist did himself serous damage at half time.

Lot’s of examples to underpin my many anxious moments even when ‘plain sailing’.

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Post #422924  Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2023 1:56 pm 
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socrates wrote:
I'm a bit fearful about Marquinhos's loan to Norwich. The Championship is a brutal league, very demanding both physically and mentally with lots of teams all capable of beating each other. Every game is a tough, tough test.

If Norwich fans are expecting a sexy Brazilian winger, full of tricks and flair then I think they will be a tad disappointed. From what he's shown so far he's more of a wide midfielder than an out and out winger. Lovely touch and weight of pass/cross but not really a dribbler who goes past a fullback.

I hope I am wrong but I'm not sure he's ready for such a tough loan, maybe somewhere in France or Portugal would have been better. He's not really been exposed to the rough and tumble of what Championship football will bring so I think he might struggle for game time.

That said, I hope I am completey wrong on this and that it proves to be an inspired loan and he lights up the league. Norwich play good football so hopefully he can adjust quickly.

Charlie Patino is learning his trade there in that division, and doing okay. The fans at Blackpool regard him well - a bit like Palace fans did with Ashley Cole and Brentford fans did with Szczesny.

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Post #422925  Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2023 3:40 pm 
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Given the opportunity we have, given our over-reliance on Partey and his long history of injuries and given Elneny's latest injury woes it really is inconceivable that we could end the transfer window without having stengthened in that area and yet with a day to go we find ourselves in that position.


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Post #422926  Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2023 3:43 pm 
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long time gooner wrote:
socrates wrote:
I'm a bit fearful about Marquinhos's loan to Norwich. The Championship is a brutal league, very demanding both physically and mentally with lots of teams all capable of beating each other. Every game is a tough, tough test.

If Norwich fans are expecting a sexy Brazilian winger, full of tricks and flair then I think they will be a tad disappointed. From what he's shown so far he's more of a wide midfielder than an out and out winger. Lovely touch and weight of pass/cross but not really a dribbler who goes past a fullback.

I hope I am wrong but I'm not sure he's ready for such a tough loan, maybe somewhere in France or Portugal would have been better. He's not really been exposed to the rough and tumble of what Championship football will bring so I think he might struggle for game time.

That said, I hope I am completey wrong on this and that it proves to be an inspired loan and he lights up the league. Norwich play good football so hopefully he can adjust quickly.

Charlie Patino is learning his trade there in that division, and doing okay. The fans at Blackpool regard him well - a bit like Palace fans did with Ashley Cole and Brentford fans did with Szczesny.


Hi ltg,

You are right, Patino has done extremely well.

As I said, I hope I am wrong and Marquinhos turns on the style big time at Norwich. I'm just basing my thoughts on what I've seen from him so far, his lack of experience of english football and the type of player he is.


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Post #422927  Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2023 4:17 pm 
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socrates wrote:
I'm a bit fearful about Marquinhos's loan to Norwich. The Championship is a brutal league, very demanding both physically and mentally with lots of teams all capable of beating each other. Every game is a tough, tough test.

If Norwich fans are expecting a sexy Brazilian winger, full of tricks and flair then I think they will be a tad disappointed. From what he's shown so far he's more of a wide midfielder than an out and out winger. Lovely touch and weight of pass/cross but not really a dribbler who goes past a fullback.

I hope I am wrong but I'm not sure he's ready for such a tough loan, maybe somewhere in France or Portugal would have been better. He's not really been exposed to the rough and tumble of what Championship football will bring so I think he might struggle for game time.

That said, I hope I am completey wrong on this and that it proves to be an inspired loan and he lights up the league. Norwich play good football so hopefully he can adjust quickly.


Not si sure about that analysis. The Brazilian league can be quite physical as can other top leagues. These days there are a myriad of different nationalities in all kinds of leagues so I'd say he will be physically fine at Norwich.

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Post #422928  Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2023 5:09 pm 
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Update on caicedo

He’s either likely or unlikely to sign for us tomorrow. We made an imaginary bid earlier today for 70 million that’s been denied as Brighton want 80 million but will likely reject that too. He’s super keen to join Arsenal as well as any other club under the sun.

Video explanation https://youtu.be/gYF5C3uvM18


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Post #422929  Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2023 5:20 pm 
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Cancelo on loan to Bayern is not one I saw coming. Very versatile player for City but obviously a falling out has happened. This is all good news for us.

Enzo Fernandes looks like Chelsea’s last big deal this window, close to £120m

Some positive progress it seems on the Caicedo chase, Arsenal not leaving the table…. But it does seem we’re putting all our eggs in this basket which is a worry

Everton are looking to spend their Gordon money (£45m) on Gallagher from Chelsea. Not sure why Gallagher would go there right now. It helps chelsea cook their books though as they would bank the full £40-45m for accounting purpose and it would allow £280m of signings on 7 year deals to balance out that expenditure for this year….they’d have to make the same £40m sale each year but it shows how the long contracts can be used to manipulate FFP


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Post #422930  Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2023 6:54 pm 
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Jorginho from Chelsea as an alternative is being mooted


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Post #422931  Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2023 7:30 pm 
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I’d rather watch Dave Lee travis play Macbeth than sign another chelsea player but it might not be the worst idea.

It doesn’t hurt our attempts to sign caicedo the fact we are being linked publicly to other players now.

Don’t get or believe the onana links though. Why would Everton sell us their best player this season for just a 10 million profit when they are in the middle of a relegation battle


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Post #422932  Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2023 8:09 pm 
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Man U have been drawn at home in 13 of the last 14 domestic cup draws


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Post #422933  Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2023 9:04 pm 
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Brighton are free to reject or accept any bid they want but one way of looking at this is Brighton are able to get these players and are an attractive option for these players because they get a) playing time, b) prem league exposure and crucially, c) an unwritten promise that they will be allowed to move on to bigger things.

If Brighton are seen to block the moves for their players (which is completely their right) then maybe up and coming players might start to look elsewhere


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Post #422934  Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2023 9:31 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Jorginho from Chelsea as an alternative is being mooted

Big NO from me
Have we not learnt our lesson with Willian???


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Post #422935  Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2023 9:50 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Zed wrote:
This from Fabrizio Romano, then taken down. Questionable to say they least.

Surely fakes. This nonsense is never ending

Only believe it when I see it. Straight from Arsenal.

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Post #422936  Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2023 3:40 am 
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Wow. 3 years already?


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Post #422937  Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2023 7:30 am 
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Since Xhaka is playing a bit more of an advanced position than he was previously, he's got better looks at goal. I'd love to see him try more shots from distance to keep the defense honest. I can picture Nketiah putting any rebounds in.

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Post #422938  Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2023 7:31 am 
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If (and I haven't seen anything so far but it could very well happen) we don't bring anyone else in, what do you think of our chances of getting the title?

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Post #422939  Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2023 8:17 am 
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Rich wrote:
Brighton are free to reject or accept any bid they want but one way of looking at this is Brighton are able to get these players and are an attractive option for these players because they get a) playing time, b) prem league exposure and crucially, c) an unwritten promise that they will be allowed to move on to bigger things.

If Brighton are seen to block the moves for their players (which is completely their right) then maybe up and coming players might start to look elsewhere

I think c would be include "at a time and in a manner that is not unreasonably detrimental for the club". That often is not the case in the January window. Clubs have to be able to say 'no'. Players agitating for moves on social media is a major problem too. You can see why a club would want to make a point about this.

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Post #422940  Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2023 8:25 am 
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I thought the only real concern from the City cup game was how well Ake dealt with Saka. He was excellent and kept Saka quieter than any full back I’ve seen this season. I’d expect the same match up in the league games. Having Ødegaard out there with Saka will help though.


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Post #422941  Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2023 8:25 am 
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AmericanGooner wrote:
If (and I haven't seen anything so far but it could very well happen) we don't bring anyone else in, what do you think of our chances of getting the title?


0.5-X^aY^b

where X is the odds of Partey getting an injury and Y is the severity of the injury measured in number of league games missed, and a and b are parameters

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Post #422942  Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2023 8:26 am 
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Decaf wrote:
Rich wrote:
Brighton are free to reject or accept any bid they want but one way of looking at this is Brighton are able to get these players and are an attractive option for these players because they get a) playing time, b) prem league exposure and crucially, c) an unwritten promise that they will be allowed to move on to bigger things.

If Brighton are seen to block the moves for their players (which is completely their right) then maybe up and coming players might start to look elsewhere

I think c would be include "at a time and in a manner that is not unreasonably detrimental for the club". That often is not the case in the January window. Clubs have to be able to say 'no'. Players agitating for moves on social media is a major problem too. You can see why a club would want to make a point about this.

Agreed, I don’t blame Brighton for digging their heels in, particularly as this might be one of the times they don’t have a ready made replacement imbedded in the squad already.


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Post #422943  Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2023 8:29 am 
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david.d wrote:
Rich wrote:
Jorginho from Chelsea as an alternative is being mooted

Big NO from me
Have we not learnt our lesson with Willian???

Wouldn’t be my choice. But I would take him as a last ditch thing if it was only on a 5 month deal. I don’t want him long term. I could see situations in some games where he could be useful. Arteta supposedly wanted him back in his first season, as did Pep at one point.


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Post #422944  Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2023 8:34 am 
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Rich wrote:
I thought the only real concern from the City cup game was how well Ake dealt with Saka. He was excellent and kept Saka quieter than any full back I’ve seen this season. I’d expect the same match up in the league games. Having Ødegaard out there with Saka will help though.

That, and the fact that Saka is a big game player. My impression is that his weaker games have been against lesser opposition or in the cups. World cup quarterfinals, and top 6 opposition in the league what makes him tick. He'll be up for this one.

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Post #422945  Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2023 8:36 am 
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Rich wrote:
david.d wrote:
Big NO from me
Have we not learnt our lesson with Willian???

Wouldn’t be my choice. But I would take him as a last ditch thing if it was only on a 5 month deal. I don’t want him long term. I could see situations in some games where he could be useful. Arteta supposedly wanted him back in his first season, as did Pep at one point.

Exactly.

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Post #422946  Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2023 8:49 am 
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Looks like no Caicedo then,

Why have we left things so late to try to sign the one type of player we absolutely need to cover Partey, even more so with Elneny's injury?

We spent what seemed weeks chasing Mudryk, expecting Shakhter to cave-in and accept our offer. That went well.

We only signed Trossard after his agent apparently contacted us the day before he signed, so why did it take his agent contacting us to set the deal in motion? Was it just serendipity?

Kiwior looks like more of a successful planned signing.

Let's see what happens to day but its not looking good.


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Post #422947  Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2023 9:12 am 
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socrates wrote:
Looks like no Caicedo then,

Why have we left things so late to try to sign the one type of player we absolutely need to cover Partey, even more so with Elneny's injury?

We spent what seemed weeks chasing Mudryk, expecting Shakhter to cave-in and accept our offer. That went well.

We only signed Trossard after his agent apparently contacted us the day before he signed, so why did it take his agent contacting us to set the deal in motion? Was it just serendipity?

Kiwior looks like more of a successful planned signing.

Let's see what happens to day but its not looking good.


At the end of the day we just don’t have the budget so we have to stretch it. What’s the alternative ? 8 year contracts for unproven players.

Even if Brighton accepted 75 million I’d feel uneasy about it. He’s hardly proven.

Every once in a while we go large. Last summer it was Jesus, apparently this summer it’s Rice but there’s an element of working to a budget. It’s always been this way with Arsenal

I’d rather we sat on our hands than sign Jorginho. Even play lokonga than sign him for 15 million and pay him 150k a week.


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Post #422948  Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2023 9:13 am 
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No sooner do I post then Ornstein says…

Arsenal advancing towards agreement to sign Jorginho from Chelsea. 31yo Italy midfielder now most likely #DeadlineDay recruit. Acceptance at #AFC that Brighton stance on Moises Caicedo means pursuit of 21yo Ecuadorian is over


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Post #422949  Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2023 9:19 am 
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The scale of the Jorginho issue will be on what terms he’s signed.

If he’s on a free and we just pick up his wages for the next 16 months it’s not much of a issue really. If he’s useless he won’t play for Arteta and we just move him in the summer. People moan about Willian but there’s wasn’t much loss there.

If we pay 15 million, 150k a week and it’s a 3 year deal it’s likely another situation where we have a player not adding value and could have to be paid off.


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Post #422950  Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2023 9:20 am 
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The £105m that Chelsea are supposed to be bidding for Fernandez is quite remarkable. Benfica bought him from River Plate last summer for £9m.

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Post #422951  Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2023 9:21 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
No sooner do I post then Ornstein says…

Arsenal advancing towards agreement to sign Jorginho from Chelsea. 31yo Italy midfielder now most likely #DeadlineDay recruit. Acceptance at #AFC that Brighton stance on Moises Caicedo means pursuit of 21yo Ecuadorian is over


A club with our resources and souting network has to do better that Jorginho on the last day of the window.

We have a chance to win the league and you're telling me there is absolutely no one in europe, South America or even Africa who could have come in, even on loan, with a profile more similar to Partey than Jorginho.

Jorginho's contract is up in 6 months, if we end up paying £10-15m for him Chelsea will be laughing all the way to the bank.


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Post #422952  Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2023 9:23 am 
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I’m surprised that Chelsea would consider letting one of their players come to us. With their dosh they can afford to keep him and thereby stop us strengthening.

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Post #422953  Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2023 9:24 am 
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socrates wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
No sooner do I post then Ornstein says…

Arsenal advancing towards agreement to sign Jorginho from Chelsea. 31yo Italy midfielder now most likely #DeadlineDay recruit. Acceptance at #AFC that Brighton stance on Moises Caicedo means pursuit of 21yo Ecuadorian is over


A club with our resources and souting network has to do better that Jorginho on the last day of the window.

We have a chance to win the league and you're telling me there is absolutely no one in europe, South America or even Africa who could have come in, even on loan, with a profile more similar to Partey than Jorginho.


Who then? What obvious player can you extract in January.

Unless you pay an absolute fortune like chelsea you are signing a back up player, someone out of contract or someone like wouters who man united went for. It’s not really the time to do business but as Mikel said we have no option we have to use every window


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Post #422954  Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2023 9:25 am 
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long time gooner wrote:
I’m surprised that Chelsea would consider letting one of their players come to us. With their dosh they can afford to keep him and thereby stop us strengthening.

They need to offload wages and squad numbers as a priority. I really hope we haven’t paid much though.


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Post #422955  Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2023 9:25 am 
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I have seen it reported that Palace want to take Lakonga on loan. Assuming that we do actually get someone in through the door (not a definite by any means) then that would help us out quite a bit.

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Post #422956  Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2023 9:26 am 
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long time gooner wrote:
I’m surprised that Chelsea would consider letting one of their players come to us. With their dosh they can afford to keep him and thereby stop us strengthening.



They probably don't care ltg, they won't catch us and if they get Enzo Fernandez he probably won't play anyway. The Chelsea signings are all about next season and thereafter so why not pick up a tidy little sum for a player who is leaving in a few months for free anyway.


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Post #422957  Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2023 9:26 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
long time gooner wrote:
I’m surprised that Chelsea would consider letting one of their players come to us. With their dosh they can afford to keep him and thereby stop us strengthening.

They need to offload wages and squad numbers as a priority. I really hope we haven’t paid much though.

Do they? They seem to be impervious to FFP. Is it the squad numbers thing then?

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Post #422958  Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2023 9:29 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
socrates wrote:
Looks like no Caicedo then,

Why have we left things so late to try to sign the one type of player we absolutely need to cover Partey, even more so with Elneny's injury?

We spent what seemed weeks chasing Mudryk, expecting Shakhter to cave-in and accept our offer. That went well.

We only signed Trossard after his agent apparently contacted us the day before he signed, so why did it take his agent contacting us to set the deal in motion? Was it just serendipity?

Kiwior looks like more of a successful planned signing.

Let's see what happens to day but its not looking good.


At the end of the day we just don’t have the budget so we have to stretch it. What’s the alternative ? 8 year contracts for unproven players.

Even if Brighton accepted 75 million I’d feel uneasy about it. He’s hardly proven.

Every once in a while we go large. Last summer it was Jesus, apparently this summer it’s Rice but there’s an element of working to a budget. It’s always been this way with Arsenal

I’d rather we sat on our hands than sign Jorginho. Even play lokonga than sign him for 15 million and pay him 150k a week.

I think "uneasy" is the appropriate word for the Caicedo fee. I feel the same. It's huge money for a guy who has done very little. If we are serious about Rice, you would wonder if we have the funds to get him in the summer if we have already spent £70/80m on Caicedo.

It's funny how being top of the table changes your perspective. If we were comfortably in 2nd but 5 points behind City, I would say we would be less inclined to favour huge spending in January.

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Post #422959  Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2023 9:31 am 
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Jorginho is technically a very tidy player but he's got no pace and no legs, not really Parteyesque in any shape or form.

In the event of a Partey injury, does that mean we drop Xhaka in Partey's role and play Jorginho higher up the pitch where his lack of pace and mobility is less of an issue?


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Post #422960  Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2023 9:33 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
long time gooner wrote:
I’m surprised that Chelsea would consider letting one of their players come to us. With their dosh they can afford to keep him and thereby stop us strengthening.

They need to offload wages and squad numbers as a priority. I really hope we haven’t paid much though.

Oh wow. I was assuming that he was a free. Anything else is not great.

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