Fixtures Saturday November 2nd - Newcastle United - St. James' Park - 12:30 Pm

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Post #359001  Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 9:56 pm 
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Chambers was brilliant when he came on.
Surely he should be ahead of Cédric in the pecking order to deputise for Tomiyasu.


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Post #359002  Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 9:56 pm 
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bromley gooner wrote:
Proud of the team tonight. They are giving it everything they've got, can't ask for more than that.

Yeah it was Brom .... but given the circumstances we had no other option .

Was it a case of us defending well or were Liverpool a bit wasteful / didn't have the quality on the night to exploit the situation


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Post #359003  Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 9:57 pm 
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Post #359004  Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 9:58 pm 
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Zed wrote:
bromley gooner wrote:
I agree with that Bernard. Personally I thought Xhaka was a bit unfortunate there.

There's a replay of Xhaka's red card on Youtube. In slow motion it doesn't help him, even outside the box. One Arse player ahead of him and no defenders there at all. Prob why he did what he did.

It’s a blatant red it’s not even a subjective decision. The blokes been played in. Could have broke his rib too

If it happened at the other end we would have been screaming red


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Post #359005  Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 9:58 pm 
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Zed wrote:
bromley gooner wrote:
I agree with that Bernard. Personally I thought Xhaka was a bit unfortunate there.

There's a replay of Xhaka's red card on Youtube. In slow motion it doesn't help him, even outside the box. One Arse player ahead of him and no defenders there at all. Prob why he did what he did.

I don't think that is one of those where Xhaka is deliberately taking the man with a rush of blood, I think he thinks he can hook it away on the volley and Jota gets in front of him and the rest is inevitable.


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Post #359006  Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 9:58 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Merson strangely saying Ramsdale should have come to challenge Jota for that long ball. That's odd for me. Not many GK come for high balls a long way out of the box - maybe a through ball along the floor, but a high ball like that it is just a 50/50 header.

The better analysis from Merson on the red card was the press that Arsenal put on wasn't on, a couple of players were late to the press and Gabriel went too far up and left the gap. Sometimes if it isn't on you just have to drop and concede territory and get your shape back

You’re giving Merse too much credit. The analysis was by Carragher at half time. Merse simply repeated what Carragher had said.

And if Ramsdale had come out he would have been in great danger of colliding and getting himself sent off.

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Post #359007  Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 10:01 pm 
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Worth another shout out to Chambers and Holding. It isn't always easy to come on as a sub and immediately pick up the speed of the game and the concentration. It is where both players are very good.

White was absolutely superb and a worthy man of the match.

Arteta has a big decision for the NLD. White is so good on the ball do you put him in CM and let Lokonga roam forward more? How does he patch up that central midfield.


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Post #359008  Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 10:02 pm 
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I find it a little harsh to blame Ramsdale.

Xhaka doesn’t have to boot the guy just disrupt him. He’s not expecting the closest player to get himself sent off (again)


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Post #359009  Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 10:02 pm 
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AmericanGooner wrote:
The Macedonians needed 300 for what we did with 10.


They were Spartans.

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Post #359010  Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 10:03 pm 
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I cringe looking at it. Its a foul. No doubt. Red card is the only thing remotely debatable.




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Post #359011  Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 10:05 pm 
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First side to keep a clean sheet at Anfield with 10 men since 2015. And that match needs a caveat because Liverpool went down to 10 men on 58 minutes v West Ham who were already 2-0 up when they had their man sent off with 12 mins to go.


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Post #359012  Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 10:05 pm 
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Holding has been steady as a 3rd choice. I think the bar has been raised in central defending with Gabriel and White. I can imagine in training any other central defender has to level up to compete. Always a good thing.

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Post #359013  Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 10:06 pm 
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Rich wrote:
White was absolutely superb and a worthy man of the match.

To me, he's been getting better and better with each game. Looks like a future top class defender in my book.


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Post #359014  Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 10:09 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Merson strangely saying Ramsdale should have come to challenge Jota for that long ball. That's odd for me. Not many GK come for high balls a long way out of the box - maybe a through ball along the floor, but a high ball like that it is just a 50/50 header.

The better analysis from Merson on the red card was the press that Arsenal put on wasn't on, a couple of players were late to the press and Gabriel went too far up and left the gap. Sometimes if it isn't on you just have to drop and concede territory and get your shape back

It's Merse. He's a ridiculous pundit.

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Post #359015  Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 10:11 pm 
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Proud of the team tonight. Guts and determination. Almost a George Graham type performance. No guarantee we’ll reach the final. But tonight I feel proud of every single player, without exception.


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Post #359016  Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 10:13 pm 
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dec wrote:
Rich wrote:
Merson strangely saying Ramsdale should have come to challenge Jota for that long ball. That's odd for me. Not many GK come for high balls a long way out of the box - maybe a through ball along the floor, but a high ball like that it is just a 50/50 header.

The better analysis from Merson on the red card was the press that Arsenal put on wasn't on, a couple of players were late to the press and Gabriel went too far up and left the gap. Sometimes if it isn't on you just have to drop and concede territory and get your shape back

It's Merse. He's a ridiculous pundit.

His book - how not to be a professional footballer- is very funny and also a very honest account of his desperate gambling addiction.


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Post #359017  Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 10:13 pm 
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Ramsdale and White were looked at skeptically by Gooners before arrival. Ramsdale criminally so. White, for me seemed very good from the start. One or two questionable things but that is going to happen with a new side, a better side initially.

I never thought Leno would lose his job so quickly and I rate Leno. We have two very good keepers. Either could start for most sides.

Holding is making us not long for Saliba as much. This has to be a confidence booster for the side, but the physical toll is yet to be determined.

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Post #359018  Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 10:14 pm 
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I wondered .... does Xhaka's reputation precede him ... if that had been Ben White , Martinelli would we have had the same outcome .

Heroic effort and obviously better than losing 4 -0 ; but I don't agree with the commentary team that give us a slight advantage .

At home we will have to come out and attack , leaving more space at the back which will suit Liverpool . With their more accurate passing my $$$$ would be on them .


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Post #359019  Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 10:14 pm 
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AmericanGooner wrote:
I cringe looking at it. Its a foul. No doubt. Red card is the only thing remotely debatable.





Hi AG,

It's a definite red, its a reckless kick in the stomach, Jota is probably through on goal and Xhaka is the last man.

However, Xhaka was hung out to dry by the left side of the defence who were absent without leave and he was panicked into making a desperate attempt to clear the ball.


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Post #359020  Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 10:17 pm 
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Now, if we could just wrap up the Vlahovic signing :laughing7:


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Post #359021  Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 10:20 pm 
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For the replay, Liverpool will still be missing Salah, Mané and Keita (who has actually been very good this season). This will pretty much be the strongest team they can put out. Slight psychological advantage for us, but it's really open still.


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Post #359022  Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 10:21 pm 
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kiwipete wrote:
I wondered .... does Xhaka's reputation precede him ... if that had been Ben White , Martinelli would we have had the same outcome .

Heroic effort and obviously better than losing 4 -0 ; but I don't agree with the commentary team that give us a slight advantage .

At home we will have to come out and attack , leaving more space at the back which will suit Liverpool . With their more accurate passing my $$$$ would be on them .

The tie is balanced 50:50 but having Salah and Mané unavailable is a big miss for them. They looked very blunt up front although Jota is still a big threat.
It will be a massive achievement if we can get through.


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Post #359023  Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 10:22 pm 
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dec wrote:
Rich wrote:
Merson strangely saying Ramsdale should have come to challenge Jota for that long ball. That's odd for me. Not many GK come for high balls a long way out of the box - maybe a through ball along the floor, but a high ball like that it is just a 50/50 header.

The better analysis from Merson on the red card was the press that Arsenal put on wasn't on, a couple of players were late to the press and Gabriel went too far up and left the gap. Sometimes if it isn't on you just have to drop and concede territory and get your shape back

It's Merse. He's a ridiculous pundit.


Matthew Upson can give him a few pointers ...five minutes after Xhaka departs......

his visionary comment ........" I think Liverpool can smell blood in the water "


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Post #359024  Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 10:25 pm 
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socrates wrote:
Now, if we could just wrap up the Vlahovic signing :laughing7:

:laughing7:

Get spurs called off then sign Arthur and Vlahovic (for too much money, it’s a disgrace blah blah blah )


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Post #359025  Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 10:26 pm 
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kiwipete wrote:
I wondered .... does Xhaka's reputation precede him ... if that had been Ben White , Martinelli would we have had the same outcome .

Heroic effort and obviously better than losing 4 -0 ; but I don't agree with the commentary team that give us a slight advantage .

At home we will have to come out and attack , leaving more space at the back which will suit Liverpool . With their more accurate passing my $$$$ would be on them .

I think you’re right kiwi. His reputation got him the sending off tonight as I think others would have got a yellow. I’m not actually sure it was as easy a goal scoring opportunity as some may think. It was a difficult ball to control for the Liverpool forward. The most disappointing thing was, to repeat Carragher, the way Xhaka was left out to dry. Not so much by Ramsdale though, as by Gabriel and Tierney had gone absent without leave from their defending responsibilities. They otherwise played great so I’m not going to moan about any Arsenal player tonight. I’m proud of them all.


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Post #359026  Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 10:29 pm 
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Credit to Arteta for immediately going to the back 3. Completely block out the centre of the penalty area. Liverpool do score a lot from crosses but if you pack the box like we did every one of our CB could dominate their forward line in the air.


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Post #359027  Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 10:30 pm 
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bromley gooner wrote:
kiwipete wrote:
I wondered .... does Xhaka's reputation precede him ... if that had been Ben White , Martinelli would we have had the same outcome .

Heroic effort and obviously better than losing 4 -0 ; but I don't agree with the commentary team that give us a slight advantage .

At home we will have to come out and attack , leaving more space at the back which will suit Liverpool . With their more accurate passing my $$$$ would be on them .

The tie is balanced 50:50 but having Salah and Mané unavailable is a big miss for them. They looked very blunt up front although Jota is still a big threat.
It will be a massive achievement if we can get through.

Yes Salah and Mané are a big miss but what I'm emphasising is at home we will have to come out leaving space for their other ""ordinary" players Alexander Arnold . Henderson , Firmino , Jota to score .

We can't close up like a clam at home .


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Post #359028  Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 10:30 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Zed wrote:
There's a replay of Xhaka's red card on Youtube. In slow motion it doesn't help him, even outside the box. One Arse player ahead of him and no defenders there at all. Prob why he did what he did.

It’s a blatant red it’s not even a subjective decision. The blokes been played in. Could have broke his rib too

If it happened at the other end we would have been screaming red

Nothing given most likely at the other end. With/without VAR.

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Post #359029  Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 10:30 pm 
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If you are supposed to be a holding defensive midfielder you will be expected to cover for a fullback from time to time if they are committed upfield without getting yourself sent off. It’s that simple. Happens every week up and down the country


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Post #359030  Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 10:34 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Zed wrote:
There's a replay of Xhaka's red card on Youtube. In slow motion it doesn't help him, even outside the box. One Arse player ahead of him and no defenders there at all. Prob why he did what he did.

I don't think that is one of those where Xhaka is deliberately taking the man with a rush of blood, I think he thinks he can hook it away on the volley and Jota gets in front of him and the rest is inevitable.

Poor timing though. Not the best way to take out a player.

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Post #359031  Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 10:36 pm 
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In the last 10 years, only Sergio Ramos has picked up more red cards than Granit Xhaka across all competitions in Europe's top 5 leagues.


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Post #359032  Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 10:42 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
kiwipete wrote:
I wondered .... does Xhaka's reputation precede him ... if that had been Ben White , Martinelli would we have had the same outcome .

Heroic effort and obviously better than losing 4 -0 ; but I don't agree with the commentary team that give us a slight advantage .

At home we will have to come out and attack , leaving more space at the back which will suit Liverpool . With their more accurate passing my $$$$ would be on them .

I think you’re right kiwi. His reputation got him the sending off tonight as I think others would have got a yellow. I’m not actually sure it was as easy a goal scoring opportunity as some may think. It was a difficult ball to control for the Liverpool forward. The most disappointing thing was, to repeat Carragher, the way Xhaka was left out to dry. Not so much by Ramsdale though, as by Gabriel and Tierney had gone absent without leave from their defending responsibilities. They otherwise played great so I’m not going to moan about any Arsenal player tonight. I’m proud of them all.

I'm sure it does precede him Bernard .

Got to say I wasn't especially impressed with the ref extending a hand to haul Xhaka off the ground .

You've just shown him a red ; you plank ...... don't try and be buddy buddies now .


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Post #359033  Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 10:59 pm 
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kiwipete wrote:
Bernard wrote:
I think you’re right kiwi. His reputation got him the sending off tonight as I think others would have got a yellow. I’m not actually sure it was as easy a goal scoring opportunity as some may think. It was a difficult ball to control for the Liverpool forward. The most disappointing thing was, to repeat Carragher, the way Xhaka was left out to dry. Not so much by Ramsdale though, as by Gabriel and Tierney had gone absent without leave from their defending responsibilities. They otherwise played great so I’m not going to moan about any Arsenal player tonight. I’m proud of them all.

I'm sure it does precede him Bernard .

Got to say I wasn't especially impressed with the ref extending a hand to haul Xhaka off the ground .

You've just shown him a red ; you plank ...... don't try and be buddy buddies now .

It was a bit odd by Oliver wasn’t it. Wonder if he was thinking ‘hmm, did I overreact a bit there?’


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Post #359034  Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 11:27 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
If you are supposed to be a holding defensive midfielder you will be expected to cover for a fullback from time to time if they are committed upfield without getting yourself sent off. It’s that simple. Happens every week up and down the country

Indeed. It is a regular tactic for Tierney to push forward, far more than our right side, and when that happens, Xhaka as the left-sided central midfielder will naturally move over to cover. That's what defensive midfielders do. He wasn't "hung out to dry" at all.

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Post #359035  Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 11:33 pm 
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dec wrote:
Indeed. It is a regular tactic for Tierney to push forward, far more than our right side, and when that happens, Xhaka as the left-sided central midfielder will naturally move over to cover. That's what defensive midfielders do. He wasn't "hung out to dry" at all.

Tierney and Gabriel were about as near to the Sydney Opera House as the goal they were defending.

I still think it was the primary responsibility of the actual defenders to be back protecting our goal in a tight semi final at Anfield. If Xhaka hadn’t bothered covering them, people would surely have been asking why Gabriel and Tierney weren’t in a position to stop the Liverpool player scoring rather than expecting him to be back doing it. But Xhaka was trying to cover them so everyone now seems to be pointing the finger of blame at him rather than where most of the blame does lay: the absent defenders.


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Post #359036  Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2022 2:02 am 
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Soc brought up a very good point, I didn't think about. The defense left Xhaka out there exposed and alone .

If we have learned one thing over the years is never put Xhaka in that position. He'll pull a Mustafi.
Still, he could and should have done better, but he shouldn't have been in the position in the first place.

I wonder how the back pages are describing the game and our effort? Did they put it down to Salah and Mané not being there or give credit where credit is due?

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Post #359037  Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2022 3:04 am 
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IMHO, the fact is clear that Xhaka is slow, and will almost always lose out in any sprint for a through ball. Opposing managers recognise that, and lobbing that long ball to a stranded Xhaka must be one of the tactical moves instructed to his players.

Whether Xhaka was left stranded by his left-sided partners, or it was a tactical play gone bad, does not take away the fact that we have a slow player in the rearguard who is almost always ready to be out sprinted.

Not intended to be overly critical of Xhaka. Simply pointing to a fact well known. Which is why, that remains a glaring weak link for opposing teams to exploit. An upgrade needed if we want to challenge for top honours.

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Post #359038  Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2022 4:38 am 
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Was discussing the game with Americans I know who follow football, 1 of them is a gooner. One thing that is amazing that we haven't discussed is just how far this side has come this season. It's completely amazing. We were literally relegation fodder after the first month. Most of us would be surprised if Arteta made it this far as our manager had we only moderately improved.

Some of us were talking about the 'R' word seriously. At the very best we were resigned to being midtable at best. Lower half of the table probably. Now we are more than holding our own either for a half or the entire match against the best of the league.

If we finish top 4 or 5 it will have been an amazing achievement if it happens. More than worthy of being manager of the season stuff but it won't happen. There is still a lot of football left and shudder the thought we slide down the table but if we maintain this form, Arteta should cement his place as our manager.

I don't know if any side has made this kind of turnaround within a season ever but so far, ours is simply amazing.

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Post #359039  Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2022 7:06 am 
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Thought the away fans were excellent again last night. I know there are more of them for cup matches but I can only remember hearing the Liverpool fans properly twice all game.


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Post #359040  Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2022 7:18 am 
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I have to think that by now, the top of the league sides no longer see us as pushovers.

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