hey Kiwi, you are not playing fair you didn't read the entirety of my post.
perspective is important my friend

Quick story from my trip to Anfield. 20 or so minutes in the stadium was quiet, the Arsenal away fans were in good voice again and sang "where's your famous atmosphere" to the Liverpool fans. I think the Kop must get this a lot because it seemed like they were ready for it and it felt like every single fan in the Kop roared back a chant which I couldn't make out but must have been something along the lines of "here it is!".....to which the Arsenal fans applauded. I thought among all the over the top passion football creates in some fans it was quite a nice bit of shared humour. It went quiet again after

I can recall enjoying (sort of) being at Anfield whilst we lost 4-0. It was in 1998 and we had a cup final to look forward to.

All the scousers seemed to be delighted that we had stopped the mancs from winning the title.

Must admit I don’t think Lacazette does impose himself on many games. He’s also leaving, that’s clear. I simply think you underrate Ødegaard. Okay, he’s not as good as Vieira. But let’s be realistic. I haven’t seen an Arsenal midfielder as good as Vieira in nearly 54 years.

https://www.90min.com/posts/mikel-artet ... -of-season

I've been to Anfield a few times over the years. I remember as a kid being stunned by the noise of the Kop. However, on subsequent visits the overall atmosphere was no better or worse than at any other ground.

I must have missed the game when you were stunned by the noise of the Kop. I’ve never found Anfield out of the ordinary for atmosphere, to be honest. Nor have I St James’s Park.

We have the toon next, right? We need a win to erase the last match. Not a draw, a win. Need to keep the momentum going. And then NOT lose at Old Trafford.

A few articles about players Wenger almost got. The one that stands out is Ronaldo. He would likely have been a game changer for us. He came to the PL in 2003. It's almost a certainty I think we would have extended our run at the top with him. He was obviously that special and transformational as a player. I also don't think we'd have been able to keep him for a long tme. Man Utd had him 6 years.

Yes, I do not rate him.
He is neither a fast mover of the ball, like Lokonga, White, even Tomiyasu & Tavares. (need not mention for our 2 current stars, Saka & Emile Smith Rowe)
Nor a maestro in the centre of the field for us.
I see him re-distribute more often than initiate an attack.

Just my opinion. And I would be very very happy if he would eventually prove me wrong.

Sorry, I just think your continual criticism of Ødegaard is so unfair it makes you look small minded. He is a player of tremendous talent and creativity. We were hammered out of site at Liverpool where he came on as a sub and in that time actually looked one of our better players (not that that took much compared to the others) and you insist on singling him out for spiteful criticism. Try giving it a rest.

As Gooner 7 said he would be happy to be proved wrong. I think there is some talent in him but there is in Pépé and others. But they need to prove it. He is a long way from that position at this time IMO. You can live him all you like but criticism is currently justified.

I find it strange that some people moan about our lack of creativity when we have Saka, Smith Rowe and Ødegaard. I realise games can pass them by. But that’s the nature of many creative midfielders. It’s what tends to happen with them, or most of them. If we only had creative players in the front six we’d lack balance and be much lower than we are, in my view. Look at Maddison, and he’d have cost twice what we paid for Ødegaard.

I’ve said often enough that people are often driven by what happens in the last game. I didn’t see much to moan about Ødegaard in his substitute appearance at Anfield. He did more than all of Partey, Lokonga, Saka and Smith Rowe that day.

I don’t really like or dislike him as an individual (although I find his comments responsible). That’s my middling outlook on the huge majority of players these days. If Steve Williams joined the club now I probably wouldn’t have liked him so much. But Ødegaard is a special talent and I think we’re lucky to have him.

Brilliant. A true masterplan.

Yes Ødegaard has disappointed so far. Clearly talented but seems to struggle to impose himself on games enough right now. This may change in time as he adjusts. I don’t think he’s to be written off but really he’s on the fringe of games and you can’t make a case for dropping lacazette or smith Rowe for him. Likewise Pépé who I thought did well last season and yes we don’t really play to his strengths but eventually you have to say there must be something within the character of these guys that they aren’t imposing themselves on these matches.

It makes me laugh that Arteta was getting routinely accused of tinkering too much changing the side and now this agenda has changed to him picking his “favourites” only. Really the bloke can’t win.

Good point. Will City ever have a long spell out of the top? Hard to see that happening. Still, I think we are more than capable of getting back into the top 3 or 4 and with some luck have a title winning season.

LOL...one has to wonder why I'm not in Arteta's war room.

It was Liverpool vs Man U and I was probably 10 years old so not surprising you missed it. We had seats in the main stand right next to the Kop. It was only my 2nd ever football match.

I am reduced to cheering for Bayern and PSG to stop the Chelsea juggernaut and the jammy manure.

Do you think your youth and lack of experience in going (as it was your second match) made you stunned by the Kop? I remember in my first game at Highbury, I was stunned by the noise. It was the loudest thing I’d ever heard at that time. Looking back (it was December 1967 when I was at Primary School but a fair bit younger than the 10 you were), I don’t suppose for one second I’d have found it stunning later.

Just expected a lot more from him. It is not a witch-hunt on him.
Spiteful? Well, if every critical review is spiteful, then I am. And you are being spiteful with me, with your criticism of my opinion. It's ok, does not stop me thinking the same of Ode until he becomes the type of game changing player we need when chips are down.

Gaz, don't be small-minded

I will try and improve my mind. But my mouth just opens and out it comes. I don't think I can change after 65 years.

Traditionally, it was the biggest game in the country so it wouldn't be at all surprising to me if the atmosphere wasn't crazy.

Same with any big rivalry. Any sport frankly. The surprising thing is if it wasn't loud and boisterous.

Maybe spiteful was too strong a word to use. I thought it shortly after making the post, but not within the hour we have to edit posts. So I apologise for using spiteful. Perhaps unreasonable would have been a better word than spiteful. I just think it’s a bit unfair to keep moaning about Ødegaard. There are far bigger negative issues facing the squad than him.

I think his talent is such that there is so much to be pleased about having him. Yes he’s been inconsistent. I’m sorry but that is the nature with so many creative players. Even our own Saka and Smith Rowe, but as academy graduates their poor displays are ignored more. And they have had them. In saying that, I’m not claiming Ødegaard has been as good as either. If we were to sell all three in January I would expect a lot more for Saka, then the second biggest fee for Smith Rowe, then the lowest fee for Ødegaard.

But Ødegaard doesn’t, in my view, deserve the criticism he got from you after the Liverpool defeat when I would say he did more in his.time on the pitch as a substitute than Saka and Smith Rowe did in their time as starters. Also, look at Maddison. The phrases ‘a bit on the edge of things’ or ‘often fails to affect the game’ could have been invented for him. But whereas he would have cost £60+m, at least Ødegaard cost about half that.

I’m more than happy we’ve got Ødegaard and think he could easily become a big part of a more successful future for the club. You imply you’ll continue your criticism until he becomes a game changer when the chips are down. Your moans suggests you were expecting him to change things radically at Anfield. Come on, let’s be realistic. The game was over well before he came on.

Fair comments

Darn it. Wrote something and I got called away and it timed out. Anyway, as an aside, American university football stadiums have by far the biggest 'atmosphere' in America and I would contend, rival anywhere in the world.

My uni was a top tier sports uni. Our school had in my day around 25,000 students, all programs, undergrad, masters, PhD programs, etc, the city was a small southern college town of 20,000 people. The football stadium seated around 93,000. It was sold out every home game. Not surprising to some extent. There are only about 5 or 6 home games for uni teams. So, they are fairly scarce each season. The top tier schools are almost always sold out for home games going back decades.

The atmosphere that struck me the most with the most aura in my memory is Neyland Stadium at the University of Tennessee, over 100k seater, steps steep, so when you came back from the concession stand and walked down to your seat you felt like you were going to fall down.

In my home state of Pennsylvania, The Penn State stadium at home games was an atmosphere I have rarely if ever seen equaled. It seats at least 105-106k people and you can't hear yourself at all.

The stadium that I thought was the hardest for opposition fans but especially for players is LSU (Lousiana State University) in Baton Rouge. They were in our conference and I have been in town a few times for a game. Seats well over 100k and that swampy, oppressive, Bayou heat beats you down. Over 100,000 people all crammed into a stadium in swamp weather, well...you will lose 2 or 3 kg just being there. Imagine if you are an opposition football team with all that equipment and that helmut trapping that heat under you?

These football programs bring in on average over 50 million dollars annually to the top 15 or 20 programs. Its big money. If they have a good basketball program its tens of millions of more.

This article does a decent job of summing up the particulars of the upcoming St. Louis vs the NFL, Kroenke, etc, court battle.

My guess? The City will win. The NFL owners are part of the present American 'corporotocracy' that has resulted in America being a large, inept and corrupt super power. The NFL lied and cheated host cities for decades. I have no reason to believe they didn't do the same to St. Louis which is a 2nd tier city in size and power so thought they could easily be brushed aside.

My other guess? The NFL will settle out of court. The potential pay out is too huge. The big question for Kroenke is if or how much the NFL will share in any monetary payout.

Some owners think they (via the league) should not be subject to any part of any settlement since (in their minds), Kroenke's city, Kroenke's deal, so Kroenke's problem. Kroenke could counter that the city got some reassurances from the league either directly or indirectly that they were going to keep the Rams. They spent a lot to keep the Rams happy thinking they were staying when they had already decided to leave.

The city, so far, has a fairly strong case, that they were led to be believe the Rams were staying, spent the money for upgrades that were "agreed to" while Kroenke knew the whole time he had no intention to stay and was just using that for time to put his move to LA in place.

That has happened a few times in other cities, but the difference is these cities didn't file a law suit over it. I don't think the NFL or Kroenke thought St. Louis would. Probably because filing such a lawsuit would make it extremely unlikely the NFL would grant anyone else a franchise in St. Louis. That's the reason other cities didn't. Baltimore lost its team to Indianaopolis via subterfuge but they didn't file a lawsuit and eventually got another team. Implied agreement was don't sue us and we'll make sure you get another team when we can.

I've said before, that American cities don't consider themselves a 'big city' unless they have professional teams, especially an NFL team. Basketball, baseball, and ice hockey sports teams are all well and good but the NFL is for the "biggest, most important" cities: Los Angeles, Chicago, New York, Houston, etc.

2nd tier cities want to be one of the big boys and will screw over their own citizens with taxes in order to entice an NFL team or keep their team. Some of these cities were once major cities but fell on hard times due to a plethora of things, among which, the loss of the industrial base. Pittsburgh, provided steel for the nation and much of the world, gave us Carnegie, and other robber barrons of the day, now only has a population of about 300k. There are more people of Korean American ancestry in Los Angeles alone than people in Pittsburgh, to give you some perspective. Same for St. Louis with a similar population. Once hailed as the 'Gateway to the West, because everything moving from one side of the Mississippi river to the other came through there. It gave us the Pulitzer family of newspapers and the prize. Its a shadow of its past glory. Baltimore has over 600k people but that's about a quarter of LA, Chicago, and other cities. Its sandwiched between Washington, DC, Philadelphia and New York and is the least important of the aforementioned.

Possibly similar to Sheffield, Leeds and other cities in the UK for reference but I'm writing that with only nominal knowledge of their histories.

Anyway, my interest is almost solely about how it will affect The Arsenal if or when Kroenke loses the lawsuit. I'd be surprised if they won, unless the judge is a Republican appointee with a capitalist mindset.


https://sports.yahoo.com/as-nf-ls-billion-dollar-mediation-with-st-louis-begins-team-owners-could-wage-war-against-each-other-062242924.html

Just crossed my mind Willock may be making his return to Arsenal in a Newcastle shirt. I haven't followed him as much as I should. I hope he is doing well and does do well. If he scores in a losing effort for Newcatle, I won't begrudge him.

Or just generally plays well in their loss (clean sheet if possible for us).

The PSG - Man Utd - Poch situation is also interesting. I'm sure he has his own reasons, but off hand, don't know why he'd want to leave PSG for Man Utd.

I've never heard of Stoichkov before happening upon his video. Can't believe I haven't.

I’ve just watched the first part of a BT programme about the breeding grounds of football in South London. It’s called South of the River.

Both fascinating and informative. Well worth a watch if you can.


https://www.bt.com/sport/football/featu ... ocumentary

Yet another article on our enigma.

http://www.skysports.com/share/12470760

As they say, despite how well he plays it is hard to see him ever playing for us.

I worry he won't want to play for Arteta

There is an answer and that's the frustrating thing about it. I can't wait for the documentary on our season. I'm hoping it will shed some light if not sooner.

The club had better have a damn good reason why.

I honestly couldn’t give a *%^@

I hope we sell the geezer. It’s become so boring listening to people talk about him. If he comes back and does well people will blame arteta for loaning him earlier and and he does badly likewise it’s because of the loan.

Quite agree TG. Really really boring. It looks increasingly unlikely he'll be happy at Arsenal so sell.

Best that we can hope for is that he enhances his transfer out value.

Tiresome

He makes 2 mistakes in a game that both cost goals it doesn’t get mentioned, has a decent half and makes one decent tackle against mbappe and he’s the next beckenbaur.

Endless articles on the bloke and fans saying they would never forgive the manager if he gets sold.

Honestly I have no idea how our fans would be able to cope these days with a scenario like when George sold fan favourites like Sansom or lukic.

If we decide to sell him this summer and use the money to sign a top class midfielder who adds a new dimension to our team you will still have people moaning about Saliba mark my words.

Absolutely, though am I right in thinking he'll only have a year left on his contract come next summer? If so we'll do well to get our money back on him.

Yes, midfield and up front are areas that need strengthening more than central defence. Gabriel and White are looking excellent and our backup is pretty decent as well.
Arteta clearly has his reasons for why the kid has been sent out on loan. I fancy it might be something to do with attitude and application, perhaps he was demanding to be first choice, I don't know. But Arteta would have kept him and played him if he came problem free. I back Arteta's judgement on this situation.