John, My deepest sympathies to you and your family. Take care of yourself.

Believe Arteta & team will look at Pool defeat as a learning step. Critically important to learn from this defeat. The carelessness of our play needs to be addressed.
Thought we had a good first half. Even after the goal, we were still playing positively.

I trust this team, collectively, has a stronger stomach, so I am going full optimism with the next few games.
Newcastle - W
MU - W (believe we can go for the jugular here)
Everton - D
Southampton - W
WH - D
Leeds - W
14 points

Strange that Klopp was so adamant there was no foul in the Mané challenge on Tomiyasu that sparked the touchline argument. I thought it was a clear foul as Mané led with the arm in to the face and could have easily been a yellow.

All managers wear that specially tinted glass.
His reaction is to be expected.
Arteta would have done the same if it was the other way round.

The frustrating thing from yesterday is we found ourselves 2-0 down to a set piece and an awful mistake to gift a goal. Up until then we restricted Liverpool to very few chances. Of course we offered virtually nothing in attack but that didn’t feel like we deserved a 4-0 loss, Liverpool were very clinical in the end.

Yeah I didn’t expect Klopp to agree that it should have been a yellow but I would have thought a more rational view would have been to say something like ‘you can’t give yellows for every foul’ rather than claim there was no foul at all. The ref did give the foul if I’m right?

The way I saw it, Ramsdale kept it at 0-0 for a long time. We could have been 2 or 3 down even before their first goal.
They were passing through us too easily.

Would largely agree but anything can happen on a trip to old Trafford. They could also have a new manager onboard at that point. If we can get that points haul from those games we will be in the reckoning for European spots

I think foul was given

I went to the match yesterday, sat in the main stand with the Liverpool fans. First time at Anfield, the ‘famous atmosphere’ is a bit of a myth. It was quiet until they scored their first and the only singing came from the Kop, it certainly wasn’t the cauldron that many pundits wax lyrical over.

This Liverpool team has been together for 3-4 years now, virtually unchanged. Our team has been together for 10 games.

Totally agree about anything from our trip to OT
I'm being overly optimistic in my prediction
Somehow I see this team as one capable to bounce back strongly, as a Team!
How wonderful if we won via a Aubameyang converted penalty at OT

I’d snap your hand off for that set of results. I think we’d be top 4 if we collected 14 points from the next 6

Final sentence is key here.

Shame. Solskjaer confirmed as gone. I was rather hoping that he would still be there when we play them.

Thanks dec

I think you’ve made some good points there kiwi. I was surprised by gooner7’s description of Ødegaard as too lightweight. I actually felt he did well after coming on and did enough to count as one of our better players on the day.

I always think there’s a tendency in some fans to overreact to bad defeats, or indeed any defeats - even narrow ones. gooner7 is right that Tavares and Lokonga’s performances were disappointing. I think it’s guaranteed that Tierney will come back into the team for the Newcastle game. I don’t know how close Xhaka is to fitness but when he is I reckon we’ll see him back in the side too. But had Tierney and Xhaka played yesterday I still think we’d have lost, albeit 3-0 instead of 4-0 as I doubt Tierney would have given Liverpool their second goal as Tavares did.

Yesterday’s result does not make us a poor team. All it showed is that currently Liverpool are way ahead of us. But we all knew that anyway.

Pleasing to see the women’s team beat Manchester United 0-2 away today. It was live on the BBC as well.

Spot on Bernard. And I’m hoping that our emergent players will have learned and benefitted from the masterclass.

Newcastle next.

The top 3 each have a full back (or two) who are technically brilliant and as creative as a No.10! Reece James, Trent and Cancelo are quite brilliant. I like Tierney, Tomiyasu and Tavares but none of them are close to the quality on the ball those 3 have. Full backs tend to get more space and time on the ball so having that ability on the ball in those positions is a huge assist to those 3 teams.

Thanks Bernard ...... I'd be very interested in listening to both managers half time instructions

... guessing I'd think Klopp thought "Okay they held us pretty much in the first half how can I change things" whereas Mikael thought we did well there carry on the same .

van Dyke said they were told move further forward concentrate on pressing us , which worked a treat Tavares and Lakonga confirming their youth .

Very interesting match against the Geordies .... have we taken this match on the chin and moved on or do we wilt like a two month old floral display ....?

Right on about the fans one defeat and .......... "spend some f(*(*&&^money " becomes the catchcry .

Brighton , Palace , West Ham have all got good results against Liverpool and haven't spent truckloads of cash .

It's all about getting the team to collectively function well rather than installing individually brilliant players .

I thought it was a clear foul but Klopp can be quite rabidly passionate , getting his gonads in a real Gordian knot .

Part of his reaction was fueled by some earlier match [ think versus Real Madrid ] where play acting got Mané a yellow .

Jurgen then had to replace for fear of another yellow leading to a red . He figured the same was happening there .

Little educational post here for you young Singaporean ......... Ramsdale is our goalkeeper , stopping the ball going into our net is his job .

Thank you TG. In a spirit of conciliation I have parked the Brexit and Boris comments I was about to post post and instead wish you and yours a very Merry Christmas. God bless ya.

John while I am in a goodish mood sincere belated condolences on the death of your father.

You were very lucky you had your rock for so long. Mine passed over 30 years ago and I still miss him so much. God bless ya and have a good Christmas.

Thanks Chris

Hopefully at some point we'll exact our revenge against Liverpool. The club I want to get revenge the most is Man Utd. I want to put 9 past them and I hope I live to see it.

Agree with you both. I think it also shows the gulf in class between the top 3 and the rest. We've caught them all on a good day, and us on a bad day or fairly weakened for a few of them and got pummelled 11-0 on aggregate. It is easy to look at other teams picking up points against these 3, Burnley drew with Chelsea, City were beaten by Palace, Liverpool drew at home to brighton - but these results are real bonuses for the teams that do it and realistically being consistent against all the similar teams from 4th-10th is what is going to make a great season for us rather than a poor one.
For me, certainly this season, the joy of beating Leicester away 2-0 far outweighs the disappointment of losing 4-0 to Liverpool as it is a matter of expectations.
Newcastle at home is a must win and we should win and have won that sort of game pretty consistently with good and bad Arsenal teams - where we can judge ourselves much better is the upcoming away game to Man U and Everton and the home game vs West Ham. Take 7 points from those 3 games and top 4 is a more serious possibility.

The frustrating part for me is we've had some pretty heavy defeats against these teams for some years now but when we were top dogs I don't recall many thrashings we handed out to the other big teams. Like you, I'd love to give one of them a big thrashing soon!

Things go in cycles. I wasn't around but I have to think it looked like Liverpool was going to win titles for ever if you watched them in the 70s and 80s and if someone said they'd go about 2 decades without a title, you'd get laughed at.

I also have to assume, anyone who saw Man Utd in the 70s and 80s and said they would go on a 2 decade run, winnin CLs and a treble, they'd laugh their Arsenals off.

It's been about a dozen years or so that we were really good. We'll get there I think despite the present ownership.

The game has changed since those days. It's almost fully financial now. Newcastle will be up there in the next five years due to their newly aquired financial capabilities, that's nothing to do with the natural cycle of football. I'd be happy getting back into the top 4. I think this is as good as we can hope for for the foreseeable future.

I saw a tweet this morning that said it's weird to see Utd, Arsenal, Milan, Barca etc all being mediocre as you just assumed theyd always be amongst the best in Europe. It's down to money - despite a few outliers like Liverpool - who are still a very wealthy club. PSG, City, Chelsea, Newcastle (soon) etc. It's just the new order now. Big, state owned or state backed owners. We're not winning the league for years IMO.

EDIT -obvs Utd are down to rank mismanagement too, but egenerally speaking you get my point.

Bernard, I'm still hoping we can find a Vieira type attacking mid. Ode is good but not a game changer. Lacazette imposes himself on the game better than Ode, IMHO.

hey Kiwi, you are not playing fair you didn't read the entirety of my post.
perspective is important my friend

Quick story from my trip to Anfield. 20 or so minutes in the stadium was quiet, the Arsenal away fans were in good voice again and sang "where's your famous atmosphere" to the Liverpool fans. I think the Kop must get this a lot because it seemed like they were ready for it and it felt like every single fan in the Kop roared back a chant which I couldn't make out but must have been something along the lines of "here it is!".....to which the Arsenal fans applauded. I thought among all the over the top passion football creates in some fans it was quite a nice bit of shared humour. It went quiet again after

I can recall enjoying (sort of) being at Anfield whilst we lost 4-0. It was in 1998 and we had a cup final to look forward to.

All the scousers seemed to be delighted that we had stopped the mancs from winning the title.

Must admit I don’t think Lacazette does impose himself on many games. He’s also leaving, that’s clear. I simply think you underrate Ødegaard. Okay, he’s not as good as Vieira. But let’s be realistic. I haven’t seen an Arsenal midfielder as good as Vieira in nearly 54 years.

https://www.90min.com/posts/mikel-artet ... -of-season

I've been to Anfield a few times over the years. I remember as a kid being stunned by the noise of the Kop. However, on subsequent visits the overall atmosphere was no better or worse than at any other ground.

I must have missed the game when you were stunned by the noise of the Kop. I’ve never found Anfield out of the ordinary for atmosphere, to be honest. Nor have I St James’s Park.

We have the toon next, right? We need a win to erase the last match. Not a draw, a win. Need to keep the momentum going. And then NOT lose at Old Trafford.

A few articles about players Wenger almost got. The one that stands out is Ronaldo. He would likely have been a game changer for us. He came to the PL in 2003. It's almost a certainty I think we would have extended our run at the top with him. He was obviously that special and transformational as a player. I also don't think we'd have been able to keep him for a long tme. Man Utd had him 6 years.