In the summary of last night's press conference on arsenal.com 6-7 questions were about the referee or VAR. I do think McArthur should've been sent off because of how dangerous the challenge was and how far away from the ball he really was (Saka was jumping up to control the ball over his head, McArthur kicked his calf) but that type of questions just puts the focus on all the wrong things.

In individual games a howler from the ref may influence results, but the problem last night wasn't the ref (not saying anyone here is making that claim, by the way). The problem last night was yet another in a long line of poor, uninspired and unimaginative performances from Arsenal. Performances which are the norm rather than the exception these days. We were a better attacking side even during Wenger's last 18 months or so when our attacking performances seemed to take a nosedive. And we were a better attacking side under Emery. From an Arsenal perspective, that should be the only focus.

I fully agree that nobody is making that claim here, not even Rich who in my view goes overboard about referees. I think you’re right about our performances, which are independent of referees. That was the primary objective of my earlier post.

Changing subjects, one thing that I haven’t seen discussed here yet looked possible at the game was whether Ramsdale should have kept one of the Palace goals out. It was clearly a hard hit shot, but appeared pretty well straight at Ramsdale. But my seat isn’t directly behind either goal. I tend to see shots, even firmly struck ones, that are almost straight at the keeper as not only saveable but as goalkeeping errors when they go in.

Am I being unfair and it wasn’t almost straight at Ramsdale?

Sorry, I don't miss Xhaka at all. If we need Xhaka to play well/better, then pack it in.

I wonder if McArthur went momentarily blind or suffered some sort of hallucination.

I think it would be slightly harsh to blame Ramsdale. It wasn't great keeping and you would want a top level keeper to save it but it was a hard shot and Edouard was very close.

Ben White's defending for the goal was abysmal. He backed off into the box instead of engaging Edouard. Really terrible.

Same old stuff happens on the pitch so it is hardly surprising that the same criticisms are raised.

Thought the same with Gabriel for their first goal. It's not easy when a player comes at a standing defender with speed (although in Benteke's case, 'speed' is very much a relative term) but Gabriel just let him have a free shot way too easily in my opinion.

Thanks for the Ramsdale comment dec. Although your thoughts do make me wonder if I was being unfair, even if I was slightly harsh. I would like him to be a top level keeper and despite being very close, it wasn’t point blank.

I agree wholly with you suggestion about White’s defending though. It was very poor defending to the extent that I don’t feel your use of the word ‘abysmal’ is grossly over the top.

I’d agree about Gabriel for that goal too.

I would read the name Alan Sugar and Tottenham and knew nothing about the man. I thoroughly enjoyed this piece on him. Especially his saying the worst mistake of his life were the years dedicated running the club. You all probably know his story, but its new to me.

(Warrior for whatever reason, probably my own fault, the youtube URL didn't work)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeQ7i9_rA6g&t=653s

The difference between the two was that Gabriel got caught square on. That's obviously bad defending, but if you get caught in that position it is really difficult to adjust and a forward can leave you for dead. With White he just kept backing off which was ridiculous.

I think that is the mot juste.

Gabriel's was bit more forgivable because it happened so quickly and one could argue that he didn't have time to react.

Ramsdale's non-save would be in that grey area ... it would have been a very good save but one a top class keeper would expect to make.

Blaming Ramsdale for that goal is absolutely searching. Like Blaming seaman for the goal giggs scored againest him in that semi.

Totally let down by his defence. Let the guy take a free hit ffs

Yes, you can't legislate for Partey losing the ball in that area. Gabriel was absolutely sold there.

Obviously the blame for our goals is on Partey and White.

Its not blaming him to say that it was savable but would have take a great save. What is your point actually? Are you claiming it was unsavable? I'd bet that Ramsdale wouldn't.

Getting overrun in midfield is not my idea of fun. Each to his own, I suppose.

I have only seen highlights but it looked like two midfield errors caused the goals more than defensive ones? Ironic that our opponents are managed by a man who rarely lost a midfield duel. Also I can't accept lucky Arsenal for scoring in added time - a goal in the first five minutes and who calls that lucky? Palace are no pushovers, so great effort for the guys to keep at it right to the whistle in yet another London derby. As Tony used to say, that point gained might just be the one that matters in the end.

I think Ramsdale is anticipating the shot across him in to the far corner, which is the percentage shot for a striker in that position. Ramsdale shifts his body weight on to his right side and then had to try to arch back to his left. If we’re laying blame for that goal Ramsdale is 3rd behind Lokonga and White

Friday’s line up will be interesting. The back 5 and Partey will almost certainly play. Lacazette’s cameo should earn him a start in normal circumstances but it would be harsh to drop Aubameyang. So do we go back to Aubameyang wide left?
I think we must bring Lokonga or even AMN in to a central midfield 2, we’ve not got the balance right with Emile Smith Rowe and Ødegaard playing as the advanced 8’s. City did this with De Bruyne and Silva but both are more comfortable playing centrally whereas Emile Smith Rowe and Ødegaard aren’t really central midfielders they are much more attacking.

... you can’t blame the keeper for the goal. Free hit inside the penalty area.

... said a few weeks back. A matter of games till our fans started questioning him.

Look at their second goal, I can't help thinking that if Xhaka had been playing, our the entire left side wouldn't have been vacant like that. White's efforts weren't great, but he was pretty isolated.

Saw someone post this online. Partey trying to hold the midfield on his own with quite frankly an impossible job to progress the ball forward.

We don't play through midfield. It is all out wide until we get to the opposition box when the horseshoe kicks in. Last season it was either Saka or Tierney carrying the attacking threat. Aubameyang is one the best players around at getting onto a throughball, but it just doesn't happen anymore.

That photo is an extreme example and the frustrating thing is that when a team starts to get on top in midfield, Arteta pulls the forwards back. Aubameyang put in a shift last night but spent much of the game taking up a defensive position midway inside our half.

I don’t think we played very well for great slabs of the game. There was little sustainable possession that put pressure on Palace. I watched about 45 minutes of the game in total over 2 periods and then listened to Arsenal radio , while walking the dog in the middle. Even they expressed concern at how much space Benteke was given and repeated time and again that we did not play well when not in possession. It was a pretty poor performance and Palace looked like they had a game plan. They were not overwhelmed by an early goal and really closed us down time and again. This game was very concerning as to how other teams are already working us out and Arteta cannot respond tactically. I said I would give him to the half way part of the season; what is concerning is how quickly Viera has got a Palace team playing well even with players of lesser ability and how Arteta has failed to get an effective style in 2 years.

Hey Bernard - Did you get a PM from Juph ?

He was trying to contact you I believe.

True we are way off being a top team right now, but unless we start plummeting towards relegation, I can't see much point in ditching the manager in December or January. It is too disruptive - end of season is the time to review. Who might come in is another question.

I think we missed a trick when Arsene left by not appointing a guy with big experience - Rafa would have been my choice. Emery felt like a gamble and Arteta likewise. I'd like to see a big character in charge - Mancini would do for me, if only for his dress sense.

Mind you over the years our club has often turned to relatively inexperienced or unlikely managers, sometimes with great success - Allison, Whittaker, Mee, George and Arsene - or not - Crayston, Swindin, Wright and Neill.

Hi Rog. No there’s nothing (there’s a 0) against the new messages thing you click to read personal messages. I just clicked it anyway and there’s nothing from him, so the 0 presumably shouldn’t be a 1.

I agree we should have appointed an experienced manager. The problem is the longer we are out of Europa/CL we will become a long term mid table team, if not already there. Maybe eventually Arteta will get the team playing to potential, but I just feel he is flawed.

The midfield just didn’t work. I thought Partey did well despite the mistake.

Smith Rowe and Ødegaard just don’t seem the right type of players for the system where one midfielder sits and they need to be responsible for tracking back. They don’t seem naturally inclined to get in the middle of the park and compete.

Ødegaard actually seemed to be hiding on the right flank. Honestly he hasn’t impressed since he’s been back and the free kick at Burnley aside he hasn’t really looked capable of providing the creativity we need.

Saw that rumour that we have offered to swap Lacazette for Bale in January. Probably nonsense but as mad as the suggestion is I could see the logic in doing something like that to temporarily bring experience into the side as we have little composure and know how in attacking areas.

Also there’s nothing on the bench so Saka is going to have to play an awful lot of football.

That line up v Palace was designed to attack and apart from the first 10 minutes they just sat off and defended. It wasn’t a team to sit and defend.
It is so frustrating to see us get the early goal and then go in to our shell.
We always look so much better when we go on the front foot, I can appreciate plenty of teams have a counter attacking threat but we have 4 defenders with genuine pace now so there is no reason why we can’t play with a higher line and compress the pitch.
It isn’t the approach for every team as Liverpool and City would take it apart but it is a worrying trend how passive we are and how we fail to identify any kind of weakness in the opposition to base our attack around.

I didn’t think Ødegaard was hiding at all actually. He was always looking for the ball. He just wasn’t getting it enough so the game passed him by. Perhaps it’s more to do with Arteta not knowing how he wants the team to play? If that’s the case, is it any wonder he doesn’t structure it appropriately?

We started Saka, Ødegaard and Smith Rowe against Palace. To suggest a team with those three players lacks creativity is in my view barmy. They all started against Tottenham as well. We didn’t lack creativity that day.

Against Brighton we had all of Saka, Ødegaard and Smith Rowe start with Partey alongside Lokonga, as Xhaka was injured. That didn’t work too well either, to the extent that Arteta dropped Lokonga against Palace, which without Xhaka also didn’t work.

The obvious difference is that against Tottenham we had Partey AND Xhaka in deep midfield whereas against Palace we only had Partey on his own. Perhaps playing Saka, Ødegaard and Smith Rowe together may need two deeper midfielders behind them?

It’s also worth looking at the teams against Brentford, Chelsea and Manchester City. Those days we had Xhaka WITHOUT Partey, which also didn’t work. Neither Xhaka or Partey played against Norwich. That was probably the second best performance of the league campaign when we had Lokonga and Maitland-Niles, still two deeper midfielders. The only other game was at Burnley, another thoroughly underwhelming performance turned in to a fine three points by Ødegaard’s brilliant free kick. Only Partey played as the deep midfielder that day.

The above all makes me think we ideally should have two deeper midfielders out of Partey, Xhaka, Lokonga, Maitland-Niles and I suppose Elneny. Of those options, at this point in time I would say the evidence strongly indicates the best pairing is comfortably Xhaka AND Partey together. That should enable Saka, Ødegaard and Smith Rowe to provide the creativity that you want to see.

EDIT: The only game Xhaka and Partey have started together this season was Tottenham, our single excellent performance. Sadly with Xhaka’s injury it’ll probably be another couple of months or so before they can again. Then after that, I guess Partey will be off to the ANC.

A draw isn't going to be good enough vs Villa obviously. I'm curious to know exactly how much support the club has in Arteta. It's all speculation.

This is exactly it, it's very rare for us to dictate the game these days. There are very few teams in the league where we shouldn't be able to do that - even against Man Utd one should expect us to be able to control their very weak midfield.

Unfortunately, to me it all points to issues larger than what players we have available on any given day, or even what players Arteta picks for the starting eleven. He's just not making us play like a proper team, and with so many talented players underperforming at the same time I don't think it can be seen as a personnel issue.

We have a problem creating chances Bernard its blatant for all to see and I think Darren is right it will be the managers undoing.

We won at spurs because it was a must win and we kind of out efforted them as far as I saw.

You can have a debate about the formation and you may be right as the occasions when we used the one on Monday have worked once and failed once. Certainly in most games I’d suggest 2 might be a better option and dropping one of Emile Smith Rowe or Ødegaard

Btw Ødegaard was hiding, should have been yanked at half time and if we had better options off the bench would have been. Btw i still think this is the real problem. We looked a team of kids with Aubameyang and Partey. It’s like a half and half carling cup team wenger used to field. You’re gonna win some and lose some this season it’s going to be annoying

Take my word for it Ødegaard wasn’t hiding. He was taking up positions to receive the ball. He just wasn’t getting it and the game thus passed him by. But the effort from him was definitely there. Perhaps it came across better in the ground?

I think at the moment the front six should be Partey and Xhaka as the deeper players. Saka and Smith Rowe as the wider players with Ødegaard more central. Assuming there’s routinely one striker, that currently has to be Aubameyang although Lacazette had a good substitute appearance on Monday.

I think everyone knows Lacazette is off on a free next summer, when I think we’ll also be looking to sell Aubameyang. So a new forward will presumably be a priority then.

Absolutely agree with this. It’s so fundamental to control the midfield in any game in the league and Partey/Xhaka are two vastly experienced players who on paper and as a pair are easily top 6 quality.

Leads me to think the priority in January needs to be a deep lying defensive midfielder who has an exceptional passing range. I can see why we were linked to Neves.

I had to offload my season ticket for this one as the Mrs wouldn’t let me attend 2 weeknight games in one week but watched it live. I do agree when your in the ground you pick up on stuff you don’t notice on the TV and this probably contributes to me often shaking my head at the stuff written on here after some games I’ve attended.

Anyway listening to Tuesday club who went to the match and just described Ødegaard as being AWOL all game. Good to know it’s not just me then. As you were.

What the hell is the Tuesday club? Sounds like a bunch of morons who use over the top and exaggerated English to describe things. AWOL? Absent without leave is the type of Twitter over-reaction I prefer to ignore. I much prefer relying on my own judgment.

The game passed Ødegaard by. I’m not denying that. What I think is grossly unfair is saying he was hiding, and I’m certainly not the only person who believes he was trying to put himself in positions to receive the ball.

In most people's minds, the priority in the summer was to strengthen midfield by signing a good partner for Partey. We spent more than any club in Europe but still lack that midfielder. It's all good though because we are flying along in 12th position.