Ben White’s stats last season vs all our CB

Have to agree with the Romford Pele, £50m is a bit OTT for Ben White, even though English. Hope he won't disappoint when the time comes. At least not for Arteta, Arsenal supporters everywhere, the current players. As the MSM will be salivating to rip the club and the hiarchy to bits. The word flop comes to mind.

So partly I’m taking from that Holding isn’t the shitbucket everyone keeps making him out to be.

You can see the thinking behind signing him quite clearly in those stats, in case we already didn’t know. We haven’t actually signed him yet though have we?

Does Holding get much criticism here? If he does, I’ve not noticed it. It generally seems quite gentle good but not great type stuff. But I would warn against putting absolute faith in player stats.

A comparison of the stats for Maguire and Mustafi at the end of Maguire’s last season at Leicester (2018/19) implied Mustafi had outplayed him that season. From memory there was only one single category where Maguire had the better stats. But Manchester United still coughed up £85m for him.

I raised my eyebrow at the fee but he's a good defender and may become a great one. Who knows. We need a developed CB alongside Gabriel and White is.

People said at the time Man Utd grossly overpaid for Rio, 28 mil was it? Even by today's money its still not a small amount. We paid way more than we normally did for players when we bought Sol. When we put it into his salary. First, 100k a week player.

Liverpool paid 75 mil for van Dijk. All the aforementioned defenders were integral to a title. Not that White will win us a title but we need a solid defense. We can't leak goals as we have been or keep giving up leads and closing out games.

We are developing a good defense. Partey in front of a quality back 4 and keeper.

I’m probably one of the posters he has blocked. So can someone else explain to him that we didn’t buy Sol Campbell for “way more than we normally did” spend on players? We signed him at the end of his contract at Tottenham. I don’t suppose Tottenham would have considered for one second selling him to Arsenal.

Mills really hates Arsenal. It’s strange really, I get that in his time we were one of the top two teams and regularly beat his teams and our left side gave him a torrid time so he might be bitter about it but it was all 15 years ago. He needs to get over whatever grudge he has and it makes him look stupid as a pundit.

In the last 24 hours he’s said Pires was the first player to bring diving in to this league and that he’s amazed Ben white is going anywhere near us because we don’t win things.

Mills doesn’t get the mainstream gigs anymore, whenever I’ve heard him on radio on our games he just can’t hide his disdain for us. He works on some of the clickbait radio/tv/online stuff - if it’s just a wind up method to get fans phoning in to disagree then fair enough to make your living but you can’t be taken seriously as a pundit at all then

We had the 3rd best defence in the league last year so I think we’re targeting White to improve our build up and attacking play. He’s very good on the ball and dribbles the ball out of defence. It was a big problem for us last year of not being able to transition the ball quickly enough forwards meaning we often had to break down defences with lots of men behind the ball and at least for the first part of the season trying to do that without a creative mid!

You'd think he'd hate Man Utd more. I don't understand the Michael Owen hatred as well. I get Sherringscum's hatred of us. Fat Sam blames Wenger and by extension Arsenal's management for the managerial jobs at the biggest clubs going to foreigners.

I am hoping some of that hate isn't a wee bit of xenophobia. A lot of people thought we were a bit too French/Foreign in those days.

In sports similar to football (ice hockey, basketball, American football) there are some similar strategies and that is to build from the back, specifically, when you build a side from the ground up, start with the defense. This can take on a few different looks. It can be defense by ball possession (Brazil, Barcelona) or just having a damn good, no compromising tough defense that looks scary (1986 Chicago Bears, Arsenal's of the 90s and frankly, Arsenal of the early 00s, Leeds in the Revie era from what I understand, Oakland Raiders of the '70s).

There are some sides that will simply outscore you as a strategy (Golden State Warriors, Keegan's Newcastle, Liverpool of the 70s and 80s) but I am a fan of having a solid, air tight defense. You can be 1-0 to the Arsenal when you need be but also 'Scoring, Scoring Arsenal' as well.

I thought Wenger in the last several years of his time with us spent way too much of the little money we had on attacking players and rolled the dice on the defense, with some success (Kos) but more than a few duds.

Fat Sam was a huge fan of Carroll and I know he's viewed as a big waste but I always thought he could be a fairly dangerous player with the right set up. Okay...okay...stop laughing...

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/57884925

Those stats don't show that White is appreciably better than our centre backs. He played some games at right back so the "attacking" stats should be better. Also, I don't agree with Rich's point about needing a new central defender to improve our attacking. That could be said for fullbacks but building attacks through the middle of the pitch rests with midfielders. And as for dribbling out of defence....no thanks.

If we were paying £30m for White, that would be fine. £50m is way over the top. We are talking about a player who has played a single season of top flight football and one in which nobody was really talking about him until he got called up to England's large pre-Euros squad. That fee will also put a lot of pressure on him to deliver.

Our midfield is our biggest area of weakness by a long way and that is where the investment should be going. Maybe, I am jumping the gun and we will spend £60m or £70m on a midfielder. I won't hold my breath on that one.

So, White is not good in the air...allegedly.
https://www.football.london/arsenal-fc/transfer-news/ben-white-mikel-arteta-arsenal-20980317

Let me tell you something no matter how the kid performs he will have people on his back here on the forum because of his transfer fee, nationality or the manager who signed him.

I disagree wholeheartedly on what you have said here really. If you want to play out from the back you need defenders comfortable on the ball with a range of passing. Despite his calamitous antics at times we looked a far better team when David Luiz played in defence to enable quicker distribution to get the ball forward quicker. If he joins I see it as a positive that despite needing obvious reinforcement in midfield a plan is in place and part of it was bringing in defenders capable of playing the system we desire.

Teams who have CB who can't progress the ball forward quickly from the back and who aren't press resistant end up having two options
1) play much more direct football (we don't have the forward players for that)
2) ask your midfielders to effectively come and collect the ball from deep - this is basically what we were doing for much of last season. This just compresses the play so much more in our half and in order to avoid big gaps between the defence/midfield/attack everyone ends up dropping deeper. All this means that even if you do manage to bypass the first line of the opponents press you still have 60 yards to goal.

A number of our forwards are 'finishers' by that I mean they are best at getting on the end of chances rather than dropping deep and linking play. The likes of Pépé, Aubameyang, Martinelli thrive when 1 v 1 and space behind the defence. You play to these guys strengths by getting the ball forward more quickly so they aren't doubled up on all too easily.

I often see tactics whereby teams allow a certain defender time on the ball because they know he can't progress the ball forward as well as the others. for example Wan-Bissaka at Man U is rarely put under pressure.

Its fine if people disagree but I think it will prove to be a big added bonus to our attacking play to have centre backs who are elite level passers, press resistant and are comfortable bringing the ball out of defence

Passing was one of if not the biggest strength of Luiz. He looked like a midfielder at times from the back. I'm hoping we can have two CBs who can do that. What I like the most though is that they are big and capable. They are athletic, not easily bullied. And with Partey in front, it will be less pressure on them (although I'd like him to go forward a bit more).

Statistically Partey got forward a lot less than in the previous 3 seasons with Atletico. All his other relevant stats were quite similar. Perhaps it was because he was effectively holding the entire central midfield together on his own at times.
Depending on the partner he gets we could see more of him in an attacking sense. Put him in with Bissouma or even a Neves and the onus will be on him to get forward more.

Partey seemed to be a wee bit more free towards the end of the season. I'm inclined to trust his football brain of when to go and when to stay.

Looks like Lokonga is due to be announced soon.

Not sure Rafa Benetiz is going to endear himself to already sceptical Everton fans if their first few signings are Begovic, Andros Townsend and Demari Gray.
Everton spent way beyond their status for a while though, they've had some wild spending summers without much success. We've even managed to get £50m from them for Walcott and Iwobi

Was Partey really “effectively holding the entire central midfield together on his own at times”? It’s been said, and I think it’s a fair comment, that Partey made a slow start to his Arsenal career. He had some good games, but I think his overall level fell significantly short of “effectively holding the entire central midfield together on his own at times.” Myself, I think it’s going well over the top to say that.

Partey was at a new club in a different league, let alone an alternative country. There were injury problems too, that presumably held him back. I am therefore expecting a big improvement from Partey next season. But let’s not overplay or exaggerate the excellence of his form last season. If we do, it may become harder to emphasise any positive progression in his form that I not only hope to see, but expect.

Just been formally announced on Arse.com:

https://www.arsenal.com/news/welcome-sambi-lokonga-joins-arsenal

"Albert will wear the No 23 shirt and have the name Sambi on the back"

Time to believe it then. Hopefully another move in the right direction.

Lokonga is done, wears No.23. £15m plus £4m in add ons. Will wear 'Sambi' on his shirt

Arteta said: “Albert is a very intelligent player who has shown great maturity in his performances during his development. He has been coached well by Vincent Kompany and his team at Anderlecht. I know Vincent very well and he talks so highly about Albert and the positive impact he had to Anderlecht in recent seasons. We’re confident Albert’s ready for the next stage in his development and we’re looking forward to welcoming a new member to our squad with his quality and presence.”

There were those games when Xhaka was forced to left-back where I'm sure Arteta pretty much emptied central midfield and played a kind of 4-1-5 formation - with not great consequences. I was also thinking of games when he played with Ceballos and Elneny (save the OT performance) where it was mainly the lack of quality from his partner that lead me to that expression of 'holding the entire midfield together himself'

I agree there were some underwhelming performances but his class was still evident above every other Arsenal midfielder - and I'm one of the few who actually thinks Xhaka had a decent season but I think playing Xhaka gives us a ceiling to our performances.

When looking at players I like to look at them with my own eyes in the match (sadly don't get to see much live in person as that gives another dimension as well) but also look at the stats of the player. Sometimes either of these can contradict what you think you saw or read or they can confirm it. When I looked at some of Partey's stats he was still playing as a top level central midfielder in the prem - even if we saw a few misplaced passes or poor touches. The stats also backed up that Xhaka was better at progressing the ball forward than many would think. My issue with Xhaka was always his lack of mobility and pace and propensity to dive in to tackles.

Guendouzi and Cebackpass gone and a new Roma bid for Xhaka is expected in the next day apparently.

Looks like Arteta is ripping apart the ineffective midfield that has blighted us for so long. Promising young midfielder with more direct progressive passing has come In and we are expecting a more attacking midfield player to join also. Happy days, might actually be fun watching us again next season.

Keep going Mikel, next the Brazilian Nutty Professor please

Hi Rich. My problem was your comment that Partey was “effectively holding the entire central midfield together on his own at times.” I simply don’t believe that was the case and it’s a gross ‘over the top’ exaggeration. As stated, I think he’ll end up being a good signing. But he has to significantly improve from last season to do so.

If I had the choice of having Partey or Xhaka at Arsenal next season, Partey would definitely get my vote. No argument there. But there were quite a few ordinary performances from him last season and I would say too many to say his class was evident above every other midfielder.

I know you like looking at stats. So do I. But their limitations should not be ignored. For example, stats can be very useful for showing what is happening. But they may be less useful in explaining why it is happening. On their own they are not a reliable guide to a player’s quality. I know you haven’t claimed otherwise. I simply think the limitations of stats should be recognised. For example, you gave those stats about White earlier, which looked positive. dec thought they suggested something different.

I mentioned the stats that Mustafi outplayed Maguire in 2018/19, with Maguire only being better on one single factor. I looked it up. Maguire had one more block than Mustafi, and that was it. However, that didn’t stop Manchester United paying £85m for him, did it? That’s despite what the stats said.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football ... -transfer/

Arsenal.com and ltg have made it official. Good luck Lokonga...and Rich as well.

Hi Dec,

I am actually looking forward to seeing him play. I have seen some of his highlight reels and the thing that stands out is his composure and ability on the ball. He’s also quick and athletic which are big assets. He can play RB and DM as well.

I think we have overpaid but clearly we see something really special in him to have payed that much.

Can’t wait to see if it’s justified. I’ve said before, if he matures into a worldclass cb and stays with us for 10 years it’s money well spent.

Welcome Sambi

Love these young progressive hungry, with something to prove type of signings.

Now for a central midfielder to replace Xhaka and an attacking midfielder.
Would love Bissouma but I think Neves could do a good job for us.
AM? Not Maddison for me. Overpriced. Aouar worth a shout at price he is going for now.
Would like to see Azeez given some playing time as well.this season.

Great to see the likes of Balogun Okonkwo and soon to be as rumoured Taylor Hart signing new deals.
Got some great talent coming through.

The Academy seems to have done well recently. It is just so incredibly hard for academy players to nail down a first team place either first 11 or even squad. The other big 6 teams show this as well.
The last 'batch' to come through will likely see success for Saka and Smith-Rowe and success of a different kind for the likes of Nelson, Nketiah, Willock and Maitland-Niles if they are moved on. We should be getting maybe £10m for the first two and £20m for the latter two. Nketiah would be higher were it not for his contract having 1 year left.

If every 3-4 years we can produce 6 academy players with 2 ready for the first team and 4 who are sold for an average of £15m a man then we will be in a very healthy position.

Hi Soc,

It is quite a leap from one season in the PL with Brignton to world class centre back who stays with us for a decade.

The way I see it, we already have 5 centre backs but a big weakness in midfield and here we are spending huge money on another centre back. That's over £100m on centre backs in two seasons. I just think that the money would be better spent elsewhere, especially as we are spending well over the odds here.

The question is how many of our current centre backs have the quality to be a starter for a team that's aiming for Europe? I would say only Gabriel has shown that type of talent, and even he didn't really do it consistently last season. We need to improve our starting eleven in several positions, and centre back is one of them.

A lot of signs point to us going out to spend on a midfielder if Xhaka leaves, so I have no problem going big for White if he's identified as someone who can help take our defense up a level.

Time will tell if White's fee is too much. Again, Ferdinand, eventually justified his then astronomical fee. I would suggest that the success they got with van Dijk playing no small part was worth 75 million to Liverpool. Paying Sol 100k a week, astronomical at that time, basically paying him over time for the fee a club would have to pay, was well worth it.

Less I remind everyone we paid 36 million for....cough....Mustafi. 14 mil more shouldn't be too much for someone tested in the league.

It is wonderful we are getting the transfers in
Looking forward to the new season

I have to assume Henry had some part in our signing of Lokonga. Players talk and they ask each other or former players their opinion. I recall Gallas saying that Vieira (I think) saying that if he comes to Arsenal, he'll laugh at something every day in training.

You're right, it's a massive leap Dec, and I am fearful that we could have got this one badly wrong but I still can't help but be excited that we are willing to spend that kind of dosh on a relative rookie, though. There has to be something special that makes us think he's worth that kind of outlay......doesn't there?

'Cebackpass'. Hilarious!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NEWA32jqk0

The links with Ramsdale who Sheff Utd want £40m for but a deal could probably be struck for £25m appear so incredibly strange when there is Sam Johnstone who is available for £10m (as he only has 1 year left on his deal). Both fulfil the home grown status and many would think Johnstone is the better GK. Johnstone is however 5 years older than Ramsdale but when you're buying a No.2 GK does it matter enough to spend £15m more on an inferior GK?
I can't see us spending £20m+ on a number 2 GK, it would be laughable, so if we spent that much then he would be No.1 and Leno would surely be off.

Spurs are swapping Erik Lamella and £25m for Bryan Gil from Sevilla. 20 year old left winger, handful of caps for Spain. Don't know much about him, but left wing is where Son plays normally.