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Post #430921  Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2021 3:17 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
It’s not really the same scenario Bernard it would be like Arsenal buying smith Rowe for 27 million from Huddersfield and agreeing to loan him back to secure him under the condition he gets regular game time to keep fit. For saliba arsenal were the buyer for Emile Smith Rowe selling entity.

The main difference was Arsenal not having bought Emile Smith Rowe from Huddersfield. But the principle of the parent club wanting the player they send on loan to get playing time is still relevant. From that, it still doesn’t explain why Arsenal didn’t insist on a penalty clause if he wasn’t picked, rather than just paying Saint Etienne for playing him. If the report you saw is correct, it strikes me as a completely arse-upwards way of doing things.


Because he was a player st Étienne didn’t want to sell that many clubs wanted including spurs were after and Arsenal had to make the offer attractive. It was a negotiation to buy their player and the loan was a consequence. Seller holds the cards right ?


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Post #430922  Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2021 3:31 pm 
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old man of hoy wrote:
For those interested in the Premier League penalty award debate this site is full of information. If I read it right only twice in the last 18 completed seasons have United topped the penalties awarded column.

https://www.myfootballfacts.com/premier ... s-by-club/

Yet since the start of last season they have been awarded twice as many penalties as Liverpool, who surely are the most potent attacking force in the league.

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Post #430923  Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2021 3:31 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Bernard wrote:
The main difference was Arsenal not having bought Emile Smith Rowe from Huddersfield. But the principle of the parent club wanting the player they send on loan to get playing time is still relevant. From that, it still doesn’t explain why Arsenal didn’t insist on a penalty clause if he wasn’t picked, rather than just paying Saint Etienne for playing him. If the report you saw is correct, it strikes me as a completely arse-upwards way of doing things.

Because he was a player st Étienne didn’t want to sell that many clubs wanted including spurs were after and Arsenal had to make the offer attractive. It was a negotiation to buy their player and the loan was a consequence. Seller holds the cards right ?

Not if the buying club has the right to say when he can and can’t play, which Arsenal appeared to do over the cup final.


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Post #430924  Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2021 3:50 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
Because he was a player st Étienne didn’t want to sell that many clubs wanted including spurs were after and Arsenal had to make the offer attractive. It was a negotiation to buy their player and the loan was a consequence. Seller holds the cards right ?

Not if the buying club has the right to say when he can and can’t play, which Arsenal appeared to do over the cup final.


Yes the did because the season had ended at that point. Wobble your head man :laughing7:

When you go for your weekly shop you must come back empty handed :laughing7:


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Post #430925  Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2021 4:08 pm 
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We're linked with Patson Daka the Salzburg Striker. 27 goals last season, 15 goals in 17 games this season. Salzburg have a habit of finding good players and developing them before selling them for big profit. Leipzig usually get first pick though. Daka is a Zambian international, 22 years old, 6ft 1 and that is literally all I know about him. Not even seen a youtube clip. It will be interesting to see what happens with Lacazette in the summer, he's got a new lease of life at the moment. In terms of strikers we have a bit of a gap - Aubameyang and Lacazette at the 29+ experienced end and Martinelli, Nketiah and Balogun (if he stays) all at the 20 and under end.


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Post #430926  Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2021 4:08 pm 
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dec wrote:
old man of hoy wrote:
For those interested in the Premier League penalty award debate this site is full of information. If I read it right only twice in the last 18 completed seasons have United topped the penalties awarded column.

https://www.myfootballfacts.com/premier ... s-by-club/

Yet since the start of last season they have been awarded twice as many penalties as Liverpool, who surely are the most potent attacking force in the league.

I had a look at OMOH’s stats and I did a quick calculation of the average number of penalties each club was awarded per season in the Premier League (obviously not everyone spent eighteen years in it, and it was the last eighteen years the table covered).

The average number of penalties awarded per club for each of their seasons in the Premier League is as follows below. It gives their place in order from top to bottom, the club’s name, and the average penalties they were awarded per completed season in the Premier League. So what’s happened so far this season doesn’t affect the figures.

1. Crystal Palace 7.50
2- Leicester City 6.57
3. Manchester City 5.94
4. Manchester United 5.67
5. Liverpool 5.44
6. Chelsea 5.39
7. Bournemouth 5.00
8. Arsenal 4.83
9. Watford 4.67
10. Tottenham Hotspur 4.28
11. Aston Villa 3.93
12. Everton 3.89
13. Fulham 3.75
14. West Ham United 3.67
15. Newcastle United 3.44
16. Southampton 3.36
17. Wolverhampton Wanderers 3.33
18. Burnley 3.17
19. Brighton and Hove Albion 3.00 + Sheffield United 3.00
21. Norwich City 2.17
22. Huddersfield Town 1.50

Hopefully I’ve not made any mistakes. If I haven’t, with Palace top, who have hardly been the best side over that term, it might imply how good Zaha is at getting penalties. Noticeable Leicester are second.


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Post #430927  Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2021 4:18 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Bernard wrote:
Not if the buying club has the right to say when he can and can’t play, which Arsenal appeared to do over the cup final.

Yes the did because the season had ended at that point. Wobble your head man :laughing7:

When you go for your weekly shop you must come back empty handed :laughing7:

But it presumably hadn’t ended if the cup final was still to be played. Especially if the cup final would have triggered the payment, had he played.

Bloody hell, you seem utterly desperate to try anything to imply the reason you read was the reason Arsenal stopped him from playing. I don’t know why, as I didn’t think it was even your idea.


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Post #430928  Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2021 4:46 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
Yes the did because the season had ended at that point. Wobble your head man :laughing7:

When you go for your weekly shop you must come back empty handed :laughing7:

But it presumably hadn’t ended if the cup final was still to be played. Especially if the cup final would have triggered the payment, had he played.

Bloody hell, you seem utterly desperate to try anything to imply the reason you read was the reason Arsenal stopped him from playing. I don’t know why, as I didn’t think it was even your idea.


I’m really not it’s just that you don’t seem to understand anything that doesn’t require mass explanation. You must fall down a lot.


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Post #430929  Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2021 5:01 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
Because he was a player st Étienne didn’t want to sell that many clubs wanted including spurs were after and Arsenal had to make the offer attractive. It was a negotiation to buy their player and the loan was a consequence. Seller holds the cards right ?

Not if the buying club has the right to say when he can and can’t play, which Arsenal appeared to do over the cup final.

Wasn’t that a different scenario that arose because of the extended season? It wasn’t that Arsenal had a say in picking St Etienne’s team, but was that Arsenal refused to extend the loan period thus making him unavailable.

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Post #430930  Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2021 5:06 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Bernard wrote:
But it presumably hadn’t ended if the cup final was still to be played. Especially if the cup final would have triggered the payment, had he played.

Bloody hell, you seem utterly desperate to try anything to imply the reason you read was the reason Arsenal stopped him from playing. I don’t know why, as I didn’t think it was even your idea.


I’m really not it’s just that you don’t seem to understand anything that doesn’t require mass explanation. You must fall down a lot.

Look who’s talking. You were trying to say the season had ended at that point. Even though the cup final had still to be played and if the idea you publicised here was right, that cup final would obviously have had to count in terms of his performances for Saint Etienne last season.


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Post #430931  Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2021 5:11 pm 
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long time gooner wrote:
Bernard wrote:
Not if the buying club has the right to say when he can and can’t play, which Arsenal appeared to do over the cup final.

Wasn’t that a different scenario that arose because of the extended season? It wasn’t that Arsenal had a say in picking St Etienne’s team, but was that Arsenal refused to extend the loan period thus making him unavailable.

Arsenal not extending the loan period makes more sense. But why would Arsenal have had to pay Saint Etienne for letting him play in the cup final? Wouldn’t they have have just extended the loan period to cover the cup final?


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Post #430932  Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2021 6:15 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
long time gooner wrote:
Wasn’t that a different scenario that arose because of the extended season? It wasn’t that Arsenal had a say in picking St Etienne’s team, but was that Arsenal refused to extend the loan period thus making him unavailable.

Arsenal not extending the loan period makes more sense. But why would Arsenal have had to pay Saint Etienne for letting him play in the cup final? Wouldn’t they have have just extended the loan period to cover the cup final?

No idea whatsoever about the finances.

At the time it was reported that Arsenal wanted him back as the agreed period had finished. No real info as to the exact thinking behind it.

I did guess back then that as he had spent much of the season being injured AFC didn’t want to risk him. But that doesn’t really seem to have been borne out by subsequent developments.

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Post #430933  Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2021 8:44 pm 
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On the penalty debate there was a table published recently which showed number of touches in the box per penalty rather than just penalties per game. By using number of touches in the box per
Penalty you remove a factor of some teams attacking a lot more, so Burnley fans moaning that Man U get way more penalties than they do. If you take the assumption that the more touches you have in the box the more penalties you get then creating a graph of penalties per touches in the box should, all being fair, have all teams dead level. Of course it won’t be like that but there shouldn’t be a huge discrepancy between teams - yet there was and it was Man U standing out absolutely miles from other teams. If I find the survey/table I’ll post it


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Post #430934  Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2021 8:46 pm 
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So Özil is off to the MLS then. Thank god that boring episode has ended


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Post #430935  Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2021 8:53 pm 
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Ok so here is the table from last season which shows penalty box touches per penalty. So it removes the factor of how many touches you’re having in the box total.


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Post #430936  Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2021 9:00 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
So Özil is off to the MLS then. Thank god that boring episode has ended

It would be great if we can get rid in this window. £9m saved in 6 months wages alone. Add in Kolasinac wages and possibly getting Sokratis and a few others out permanently or on loan and you could be getting upwards of £15m for their 6 months of wages. More than enough to push towards a new signing.

And those wage savings are for every year, we really have to push the wage bill down.


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Post #430937  Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2021 9:47 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Ok so here is the table from last season which shows penalty box touches per penalty. So it removes the factor of how many touches you’re having in the box total.

That looks impressive but it's a small sample. Last season United were awarded 14 penalties, so touches per penalty ratio will be high, but in 2017/18 they were awarded only 3 penalities (we got 5 that season), and the season before that only 4.

As Hoy mentioned, it is only 18/19 and 19/20 that United stand out. If the keep getting penalities this year it is going to begin to look like more than a statistical anomaly.

What changed? It's hard to imagine that refs suddenly started to be biased toward them, or they got much better than other teams at diving. Maybe with their counterattacking style they are more likely to carry/dribble the ball into the box, whereas a team like Liverpool relies more on crosses? I don't know.

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Post #430938  Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2021 10:00 pm 
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Decaf wrote:
Rich wrote:
Ok so here is the table from last season which shows penalty box touches per penalty. So it removes the factor of how many touches you’re having in the box total.

That looks impressive but it's a small sample. Last season United were awarded 14 penalties, so touches per penalty ratio will be high, but in 2017/18 they were awarded only 3 penalities (we got 5 that season), and the season before that only 4.

As Hoy mentioned, it is only 18/19 and 19/20 that United stand out. If the keep getting penalities this year it is going to begin to look like more than a statistical anomaly.

What changed? It's hard to imagine that refs suddenly started to be biased toward them, or they got much better than other teams at diving. Maybe with their counterattacking style they are more likely to carry/dribble the ball into the box, whereas a team like Liverpool relies more on crosses? I don't know.

But that is exactly why you he’s in the box per penalty is a more relevant stat than just total number of penalties.
Most Man U fans will say they get more pens because they get the ball in the box more. That’s fine, we would expect them to get more but what that chart shows (which is over the course of a whole season) is that is Man U have 680 touches in the box they would get 10 penalties from that. And when Arsenal have the same number of touches in the box we’d have zero penalties.
There was a video doing the rounds of Shaw going past his man in the box and there was a very slight coming together and he didn’t go down and Pogba motioned to him that he should have gone to ground. I have no doubt that Man U have a large number of players who get in the box and the primary thought is how can I win a penalty, same as Vardy, same as Zaha, same to some extent as Kane. They make the ref make more decisions and get more penalties because of it


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Post #430939  Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 12:18 am 
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So Tottenham beat Brentford to reach the League Cup final. With the other semi-final a Manchester derby, I really hope City win it so that I won’t want United to win a cup final.


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Post #430940  Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 5:55 am 
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United may not have received the most penalties but I bet they have conceded by far the least number on average since the formation of the PL especially at home particularly during the Ferguson era.


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Post #430941  Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 6:43 am 
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Obviously would have preferred Brentford for a few reasons but oh well. Hoping for City so that Tottenham doesn't get a trophy. I can't trust Man Utd to beat Tottenham.

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Post #430942  Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 6:46 am 
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I don't know the pay scale in the MLS frankly but if they can come close to his salary, then as my Italian friends in Philly say 'salute'.

China could have had him. They can certainly afford his wages. But we know why he can't go. Understandable.

https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2021/01/05/report-mesut-ozil-negotiations-dc-united

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Post #430943  Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 7:39 am 
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AmericanGooner wrote:
I don't know the pay scale in the MLS frankly but if they can come close to his salary, then as my Italian friends in Philly say 'salute'.

China could have had him. They can certainly afford his wages. But we know why he can't go. Understandable.

https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2021/01/05/report-mesut-ozil-negotiations-dc-united

Looking and that link and then clicking on others within showed me something that I hadn’t noticed about the MLS. Austin are entering a team for 2021.

That caught my eye because for a period I went there several times for my employers. Also it brings to mind the infamous Lance Armstrong.

Is Austin a brand new setup, or have they relocated a franchise?

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Post #430944  Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 8:41 am 
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If Özil leaves this window or stays until the summer and leaves what will be the standout memory fans have of him on the pitch? I know he got a lot of assists in his first few seasons but there isn't much that really stands out as a 'moment'. Not in the same way other high profile players have.


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Post #430945  Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:03 am 
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long time gooner wrote:
AmericanGooner wrote:
I don't know the pay scale in the MLS frankly but if they can come close to his salary, then as my Italian friends in Philly say 'salute'.

China could have had him. They can certainly afford his wages. But we know why he can't go. Understandable.

https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2021/01/05/report-mesut-ozil-negotiations-dc-united

Looking and that link and then clicking on others within showed me something that I hadn’t noticed about the MLS. Austin are entering a team for 2021.

That caught my eye because for a period I went there several times for my employers. Also it brings to mind the infamous Lance Armstrong.

Is Austin a brand new setup, or have they relocated a franchise?


I have a very good friend there and have been there several times. Yes, they are getting a team this year. Austin is the San Francisco of Texas. There is stereotypical Texas and there is Austin. Very progressive, also the state capital.
One of the owners (very small share) is actor Matthew McConaughey, and the big money is a Dell computer exec, Dell is based in Texas. My friend is excited about it. He is a fairly long time Chelsea fan (about 2003/4...long by American standards..lol). He's taking his sons to the games after he gets season tickets. He's excited about it.

If any Texan city will embrace football its going to be Austin. The state is American football crazy. Nothing comes close....Austin is much more open minded.

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Post #430946  Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:25 am 
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Thanks American. That fits with my positive memories of the place. Nice feel to it back then. My career was in IT which is why I was out there for a while.

I do remember a day trip to San Antonio which also has a nice feel. I did visit the Alamo (next to a Woolworths) and on arrival rushed to take a photo of a building. Then I spotted the sign that said something like “This was all destroyed so we had a guess and built this which we hope looks something like”.

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Post #430947  Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 10:12 am 
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Rich wrote:
If Özil leaves this window or stays until the summer and leaves what will be the standout memory fans have of him on the pitch? I know he got a lot of assists in his first few seasons but there isn't much that really stands out as a 'moment'. Not in the same way other high profile players have.

1 very good season, 1 ok season then pretty much going through the motions

He’s been a financial tumour for the club and if I was going to pick my top 6 favourite midfielders for Arsenal he wouldn’t feature at all which speaks volumes.


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Post #430948  Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 10:21 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Rich wrote:
If Özil leaves this window or stays until the summer and leaves what will be the standout memory fans have of him on the pitch? I know he got a lot of assists in his first few seasons but there isn't much that really stands out as a 'moment'. Not in the same way other high profile players have.

1 very good season, 1 ok season then pretty much going through the motions

He’s been a financial tumour for the club and if I was going to pick my top 6 favourite midfielders for Arsenal he wouldn’t feature at all which speaks volumes.

Özil wouldn’t be anywhere near my top six favourite Arsenal midfielders. I’m like Rich, I’m struggling to think of a favourite moment either. I went to his debut at Sunderland. An assist he provided in that game is probably my stand out moment for him.


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Post #430949  Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 10:22 am 
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Looks Like Matt Macey is joining Hibs on loan for the rest of the season.

I also wonder what will happen with Balogun. I was very interested to hear Arteta say "I want him to stay, and he wants to stay". If Balogun was set on leaving for free why would Arteta say that. Is it just a case of Balogun demanding more than Arsenal are prepared to offer him at the moment both in terms of wages and game time? Obviously we can't give him £100k a week, but then he won't get that sort of silly money wherever he goes. If he wants game-time now then he needs to drop down a level. Surely the solution is to get him to sign a deal even if it is on bigger wages than we'd want and get him on loan where he can play first team football. We've were offered £5m for him last year, so we'd easily get that sort of money for him if we wanted to sell him later - and even an extra £30k a week would take 3 years to break even on a £5m transfer fee.


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Post #430950  Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 10:30 am 
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Rich wrote:
Looks Like Matt Macey is joining Hibs on loan for the rest of the season.

I also wonder what will happen with Balogun. I was very interested to hear Arteta say "I want him to stay, and he wants to stay". If Balogun was set on leaving for free why would Arteta say that. Is it just a case of Balogun demanding more than Arsenal are prepared to offer him at the moment both in terms of wages and game time? Obviously we can't give him £100k a week, but then he won't get that sort of silly money wherever he goes. If he wants game-time now then he needs to drop down a level. Surely the solution is to get him to sign a deal even if it is on bigger wages than we'd want and get him on loan where he can play first team football. We've were offered £5m for him last year, so we'd easily get that sort of money for him if we wanted to sell him later - and even an extra £30k a week would take 3 years to break even on a £5m transfer fee.

I’ve always wondered if Balogun had got Nketiah’s game time this season we’d have been far more likely to keep him. But unfortunately he didn’t, so I’ll be surprised (albeit pleasantly) if he stays.


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Post #430951  Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 10:36 am 
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Sad to hear Manchester City legend Colin Bell died yesterday. A truly wonderful player.


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Post #430952  Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 10:59 am 
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Bernard wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
1 very good season, 1 ok season then pretty much going through the motions

He’s been a financial tumour for the club and if I was going to pick my top 6 favourite midfielders for Arsenal he wouldn’t feature at all which speaks volumes.

Özil wouldn’t be anywhere near my top six favourite Arsenal midfielders. I’m like Rich, I’m struggling to think of a favourite moment either. I went to his debut at Sunderland. An assist he provided in that game is probably my stand out moment for him.


I think his best performances off the top of my head we’re in a 3 nil to Liverpool at home and againest Leicester I think last season.

He certainly wasn’t a player who typically rose to the big occasion, I reckon if he was through on goal for the Michael Thomas moment he’d have probably fluffed it. Also bizarrely I can barely recall an outstanding performance in a big game away from home.. ie old Trafford, Stamford bridge. He was just absent


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Post #430953  Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 12:19 pm 
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long time gooner wrote:
Thanks American. That fits with my positive memories of the place. Nice feel to it back then. My career was in IT which is why I was out there for a while.

I do remember a day trip to San Antonio which also has a nice feel. I did visit the Alamo (next to a Woolworths) and on arrival rushed to take a photo of a building. Then I spotted the sign that said something like “This was all destroyed so we had a guess and built this which we hope looks something like”.


I was last in the area in 2018. I was in San Antonio for a week or so. It's quaint. Fairly progressive as well. America controls the narrative but The Alamo and the reason America fought Mexico has been romanticized (coded speech for lied about it...lol).

In a nutshell. Texas was a Mexican state, largely barren and they wanted people to move there. Americans were invited to live there. They were almost entirely Americans from the south. This was post Mexican independence (1810 and their wars with other European powers). The settlers brought over slaves as well as kidnapped escaped slaves. Mexico forbade slavery (as they experienced it from Spain to some extent). That and other issues soured the Mexicans towards the American settlers. The American settlers thought otherwise, and basically usurped the state and America helped them to it.

Anyway, there is a very nice little area in San Antonio called Riverwalk. Touristy but its the main attraction other than the re-creation of the Alamo. t's a military town for the most part as well.

Austin, as you imply, is the tech center of Texas. Lots of research companies there as well. You will also remember 6th street which has all the live bands, and its all sorts of music, rock, blues, jazz, country, etc. University of Texas, which I've visited twice as a uni student and athlete. Huge campus, has to be at least 40k or 50k students there. Its, its own entity.

Anyway unlike the other areas of Texas, its friendly to everyone, foreigners, LBGTQ, non Texan Americans, etc. I hope the MLS franchise takes hold. 'Football' gets a toe hold in Texas, it would be great for the sport. Some of our best athletes are from that state. If a modest amount of them take up football, we could produce a handful of very good players, good enough for European football.

Lastly, I'm trying to imagine you with your British accent and the locals. You must have a story or two regarding that.

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Post #430954  Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 12:21 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Looks Like Matt Macey is joining Hibs on loan for the rest of the season.

I also wonder what will happen with Balogun. I was very interested to hear Arteta say "I want him to stay, and he wants to stay". If Balogun was set on leaving for free why would Arteta say that. Is it just a case of Balogun demanding more than Arsenal are prepared to offer him at the moment both in terms of wages and game time? Obviously we can't give him £100k a week, but then he won't get that sort of silly money wherever he goes. If he wants game-time now then he needs to drop down a level. Surely the solution is to get him to sign a deal even if it is on bigger wages than we'd want and get him on loan where he can play first team football. We've were offered £5m for him last year, so we'd easily get that sort of money for him if we wanted to sell him later - and even an extra £30k a week would take 3 years to break even on a £5m transfer fee.


There are rumors he wants to leave. In your quote Arteta is saying he wants to leave. Arteta may really mean he 'is considering' staying....lol. Could he be another Gnabry?

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Post #430955  Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 12:25 pm 
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A pet peeve. I do a certain amount traveling and one of the things that irritate me is just how many people are unashamedly glory hunters. I get teased for supporting Arsenal and they will tell me to change clubs. And of course I can't or won't rather and they really don't understand why. I've met people from a variety of countries where once Chelsea fans, for example, or Man Utd fans and are now Liverpool fans. It really, really irritates me.

Some fans follow players. In the middle east, Saleh is king and they are Liverpool fans primarily because of him and Liverpool being good is just icing on the cake but if he leaves they will go with him.

Korean fans are Tottenham fans for the same reason.

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Post #430956  Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 12:57 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Bernard wrote:
Özil wouldn’t be anywhere near my top six favourite Arsenal midfielders. I’m like Rich, I’m struggling to think of a favourite moment either. I went to his debut at Sunderland. An assist he provided in that game is probably my stand out moment for him.


I think his best performances off the top of my head we’re in a 3 nil to Liverpool at home and againest Leicester I think last season.

He certainly wasn’t a player who typically rose to the big occasion, I reckon if he was through on goal for the Michael Thomas moment he’d have probably fluffed it. Also bizarrely I can barely recall an outstanding performance in a big game away from home.. ie old Trafford, Stamford bridge. He was just absent

Thinking about Özil again there was that goal he scored in the last minute of a europa game when he lobbed it up over the gk, then dummied two defenders and slotted it in the empty net - a really enjoyable goal and one where it had class written all over it, Özil was a step ahead of each of his opponents, a lovely goal to watch .......BUT, a rather meaningless Europa league game, not exactly a big moment.

One he was involved in that felt like a huge moment was the free kick for Welbeck to head in the 95th minute winner v Leicester in the year Leicester won the title.

A couple of cheeky bounce it in to the ground finishes against various GK's were nice.

Leading and scoring the breakaway 3rd goal v Chelsea when he volley in after playing it to Sanchez.

I'm struggling now. Bergkamp, Pires, Fabregas, Van Persie, Sanchez all had many many more bigger stand out moments


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Post #430957  Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 2:25 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
Sad to hear Manchester City legend Colin Bell died yesterday. A truly wonderful player.

Never saw him play, but used to play Top Trumps in Primary school and he was one of the cards. That 501 appearances was always a winner. Sad news indeed.

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Post #430958  Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 2:31 pm 
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socrates wrote:
Rich wrote:
Looks like Saliba is going on loan to Nice for the rest of the season


The whole Saliba situation is just bizarre. If Fofana is good enough to play regularly for Leicester then Saliba is more than good enough to play for us, if not as a PL starter at least in the cups.

I think TG posted something about us trying to avoid paying a £5m bonus to St Etienne once he played his first game for us or something. If, so it just shows what a tin pot club we have become.

Why is everyone so happy to just accept negative publicity about the club?
The £5m payment is just BS - we would never have allowed that to be inserted
The comparison on Forfana and Saliba can be seen in several ways, but for me its shows the risk that comes with bringing players in from overseas - some take to their new club immediately, and some don't; what they did previously is irrelevent i this respect.
I could pick several examples of players who have been the best in, say an u23 team but haven't made it in the prem, but other so-called lesser players do

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Post #430959  Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 2:57 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
socrates wrote:

The whole Saliba situation is just bizarre. If Fofana is good enough to play regularly for Leicester then Saliba is more than good enough to play for us, if not as a PL starter at least in the cups.

I think TG posted something about us trying to avoid paying a £5m bonus to St Etienne once he played his first game for us or something. If, so it just shows what a tin pot club we have become.


Yes this is what I heard. 5.1 million the moment he pulls on our shirt at a time during Covid where we are over loaded with centre backs and debt because our ground is shut.

I don’t know if it’s true but to me it sounds the only logical explanation. The suggestion he’s not good enough is nonsense, Arteta has confirmed he’s got a great attitude but had a personal problem and the club had hoped to loan him out before the last window to avoid the clause but couldn’t get it done in time so he’s effectively been trapped in limbo. It sounds a combination of our bad management and the effect of Covid 19

Why is it the ONLY logical explanation?
I don't think anyone has said he isn't good enough - indeed we have been clear that we still see him as a future 1st team player; It's just that his assimilation into the club hasn't been as easy as anyone would have liked.

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Post #430960  Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 3:09 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Bernard wrote:
Okay, but it just strikes me as very odd that Arsenal would be paying Saint Etienne for putting him in their team. I would have expected the arrangement to be the other way round. Namely, Saint Etienne paying Arsenal for putting him in their side.

It makes sense if you consider it as an incentive for the smaller club to actually have to play the player. I have seen some clubs go about it a different way and use a penalty clause for the club the player is loaned to if the player is not picked. From the parent club it makes sense to have these penalty or incentive clauses because the whole point of putting your player on loan is for them to get the games. There was a point recently where young players from big clubs would go to smaller teams as those teams just wanted to bulk out their squad and they were getting little game time.

It's actually quite common when its a buy and loan back deal to include an increase in the fee for the purchase - The selling club are going to lose a player that they are also expected to develop for the larger, buying club.
In straight loan deals the loan fee can have a reduction clause if a specific number of games are reached.

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