What was with Leno catching the ball outside of the box? It looked pretty clear as only his trailing foot was inside the box and he pulled the ball back in to the box once he’d caught it. Didn’t see much made of it after

Arteta got booked for complaining about it

I don’t know what to make of Havertz, I’m finding it very difficult to judge because our defensive shape is such a mess. It’s affecting the whole team. That said vieira did more today than he has in 3 matches.

Beat MU next week and all will be forgiven

Not the same team in terms of first XI, we are playing with the same results as the 2nd half of the season. No Gabriel, Jesus or Zinny is understandable if we don't get results against good teams but what we had out there, was still far more quality than a draw at home to Fulham.

Arteta states we were ten times better against Fulham than last season. I think he is just saying anything to deflect the press, because that’s not what I observed.

Because the Aussie press are playing Ange up big you get to see almost every press conference of interview with him. Let me say there is a world of difference in how the 2 managers deal with expectations and giving a review of the performances. Maybe it’s my upbringing but I would rather my manager give a realistic assessment of the game. No need to throw players under the bus but just look at the overall team performance . If we retreated after going 2 -1 up say so.

I expect us to beat Man U because they look poor defensively. We need to start our season. It’s like preseason tactics in the first 3 games. Get it sorted.

I would try and get cucurella on loan or permanently from Chelsea. You have serious problems coming in the defence.

Arteta is going to get singled out as the poster boy for touchline behaviour this season. Nevill said he heard som lower league managers say they were briefed on behaviour by refs pre season and Arteta was used as the example. I think it’s extremely harsh as I don’t think his actions are by worse than lots of mangers.

He’s a classic full back and woefully out of form, might as well have kept Tierney

The forest red card v Man U is an interesting one, no doubt there is a foul for me but for a straight red it has to deny a clear goal scoring opportunity. Is the ref certain that the Man U player controls the ball over the top? He’s not even in possession of the ball which is often the deciding factor in these things.

I also thought the penalty Rashford won was one that I’ve seen waved away many many times

I think he could possibly invert but trust me we are going to have massive problem in that position in no time at all.

I would like to see Emile Smith Rowe given more minutes from the bench at least. He's got a bit of pace and power to go with his dribbling ability and sometimes we look like we need an injection of something a bit more dynamic.

To be fair, Vieira had a stunning cameo yesterday and showed that there is a really classy player there if we can bring it out consistently.

I wasn't able to see the game but I listened to the commentary and peoples reactions on twitter and it seems people feel Martinelli has lost some of that individuality and instinctiveness, people using the word "overcoached". It's something I've thought for a while, the service to him is often nowhere near as good that that given to Saka but I want to see him go past the fullback more often not cut back inside and play the safe pass.

There is no doubt that if Saka and Martinelli are unable to reach last years levels (and we can't just take it for granted they will) it could be a tough season, especially with the likes of Chelsea, Spurs, Villa etc looking like they will improve.

Martinelli has no connection with the players around him at the moment. Sticks out a mile. He had a centre half playing at left back behind him totally out of his depth and our interplay was non existent on that side until zinchenko came on. He’s also not been helped by by Havertz coming in either. Ffs get him an early ball.

Arteta has made a mess of our solid defence and full back relationships. I don’t really think either of our wide players have looked at our best this season so far. Far too much change and ridiculous amounts of square pegs in round holes.

I think the problem we have, and Arteta is obviously conscious of this, is that our one true inverted fullback Zinny is a bit of a sicknote, always picking up injuries and when he's out we don't look the same team. Unfortunately, though, giving the inverted role to Partey seems nonsensical given that at his best he is one of the top midfielders in the PL. On paper an in-form Partey and Rice together is a dream central midfield pairing.

Just watched MOTD. This nonsense on Gabriel.

He needs to rotate, he’s trying to keep everyone fresh etc etc. we’ve played 3 *%^@*** games for gods sake

He is by far the worst in the Prem. His antics have been widely remarked upon. He needs to calm down.

Big game against Manure and then the international break. A real chance for Havertz to show he can do it. I read he won most duels (whatever that is) and covered more ground than anyone against Palace and Forest. The Germans clearly see something i him as he is a regular so maybe it may take time. But time is not on our side. Lose against Manure we are playing catch up to 115 Charges FC.

Oh do shut up. Klopp ran on the actual pitch when Liverpool scored once.

He was ok in the first half linking with Trossard, albeit tentative with his finishing.

Once again, not great when Eddie was on. I would rather have kept Trossard on. He creates the sort of chance Eddie is good at finishing.

Indeed.
1. Gabriel and Partey .... ????
2. Tierney ???
3. Havertz
4. Martinelli and Saka starting every game and not being subbed except in extremis. Rotation my &*&*

Somewhat less nonsensical but still puzzling: Nketiah not starting after scoring and winning a penalty in the previous games. He's bang in form so play him.

I kind of understood playing Trossard who deserved his minutes but didn’t do well because pretty much the whole team was malfunctioning

Havertz experiment to convert him to a midfielder, partey experiment to convert him to a right back, kiwior experiment to convert him to a left back etc etc etc Just way too much, better off sticking with Eddie

I agree. Trossard wasn't very influential but he did set up a couple of decent chances for Martinelli and one excellent one that Saka headed straight down. He does combine well with Martinelli and Martinelli was the game changer in the first two games.

IMO Eddie just has to start in the next game, even if Jesus is fit.

The truth will come out next Sunday.
With a fully fit Zinchenko we will now see if the dropping of Gabriel was to accommodate the ridiculous inverting of Partey.
If he still persists with Partey and doesn’t bring back Gabriel then I *%^@*** give up.
He cannot afford to do this *%^@** up tinkering against utd.I really want havertz to show us a moment.
Remember when Dennis was being called a waste of money then he scored those 2 pearlescent in his 7th game against Southampton.
Remember when we were worrying about Reyes and he stuck in those 2 worldies against Chelsea.
This is what I want from havertz. Some justification of what Arteta sees in him…….because right now I cannot see what he does for us and it makes me angry seeing Emile Smith Rowe and his class just wasting away on the bench. This boy loves our club and I despise the way Arteta is treating him. He *%^@*** saved his arse 2 seasons ago and now just jettisoned to a bit part player.
We were fretting when villa were showing big interest in him then Arsenal went to town on the big announcement that Emile Smith Rowe had signed a new contract. It was a big deal.
How the *%^@ a year or so later has Arteta just gone a full 180 on the boy to put his faith in *%^@*** Havertz????!!!!
I despise his treatment of certain players, especially our own that have come through the academy.
I fear Emile Smith Rowe race is soon run and I’ll never forgive Arteta for that.
There was no *%^@*** need to sign Havertz.
Emile Smith Rowe could have played that role with His eyes closed

Lucky you !

I can cope with football existing again after yesterday. Watching Liverpool Newcastle. Fervent Liverpool supporter here. Funny when you realise who you want to win when watching a rival game. I want Newcastle to lose so much, but also suffer every misfortune a football club can suffer before actual tragedy.

Ugh. *%^@ you Liverpool. AA can’t control a ball with his left foot 1-0 down. Now Van dyke sent off.

Got the ball very clearly but cleaned out the man to get there. Red as he’s the last man. Win this game then don’t have Van Dyke for the next would be nice but Newcastle are more likely to get 3 or 4 here.

Newcastle are *%^@*** horrible. Pushed the man three times in a row when closing down but not winning the challenge. When does the ref address this intimidation *%^@? Joelinton worst offender.

Whew! Darwin Nunez. Liverpool just equalised away to Newcastle with 10 men. Not to use as a stick to beat us with but…

Darwin wins it. I’ll accept that for Newcastle. *%^@ you.

I could never barrack for Liverpool unless they were playing City.

I’ll assume that Arteta has a longer term plan than what we’ve seen so far. I think that last year we surprised many with the Zinchenko inverted full back but also became a bit predictable to the right in the 2nd half of the season. If anything I think Arteta is trying to create a lot of unpredictability but at the same time it’s taking time for our squad to learn. There were periods in the Fulham match where we were getting through the packed defence quite easily but lacked the finishing touch.

Still very nervous about the Man U match because they are good on the counter and we’re quite weak at defending when we lose the ball suddenly in midfield. Could easily have 70% possession and get picked off with 3 quick counters especially if we give away the ball so cheaply like we did against Fulham.

Things I'll like to see from Arsenal
1. Kill games off early
2. Havertz show a higher sense of urgency
3. Emile Smith Rowe gets more game time
4. Stop putting square pegs into round holes
5. Bring back Gabriel!

I think you’ll get only one of those in the near future.

If it's #5., it'll make not getting #1. slightly more bearable.

Yesterday's Newcastle and City showed the perils of being 1-0 up and seemingly in command. If even City are vulnerable when defending a narrow lead (and even to a team like Sheffield United) Arsenal really we need to stop taking the ()**(&.

The good news and bad news is first the bad news. We struggled in 2 games needlessly. Based on our improved squad, we should have dispatched with both over the course of 90 minutes without much of a fuss.

The good news is our rivals aren't much better. The story with Man Utd isn't that they won, but were down 2 nil.
Newcastle should have had the game done and dusted if they truly fancy themselves rivals to us, 'Pool and Man Utd. Liverpool are playing better than last season but no where close to a few years ago. Even City aren't looking invincible.

Some strange results to start the season and none more so than this weekend. With teams fresh and motivated it’s showing that everyone needs to be in their toes including Arsenal. Equally some of these results have shown that no one is comfortable even when dominating matches so maybe it’s not just us taking the piss nor left scratching our heads.

And screamed right in the 4th official’s face when Liverpool scored.
Jason Tindall as Newcastle assistant is also far worse than Arteta, but the rules this year means he can’t spend as much time in the technical area as only 1 member of the coaching staff is allowed there.
I know they don’t manage here anymore but Conte and Tuchel were also worse than Arteta. I read that Marco Silva celebrated Fulham’s equaliser very deliberately in front of the Arsenal bench.
Let’s not even get started on Pep’s touchline behaviour with the 4th officials.
Arteta’s biggest crime seems to be that he is probably the biggest coacher from the sidelines, barking continuous instructions and it has rubbed people up the wrong way. I think that has far more to do with him suddenly arriving on the scene as a top class manager when a) pundits had him lined up to fail b) he hasn’t earned his stripes elsewhere and probably c) another foreign manager proving that most Brit managers are dinosaurs.

Compare how Arteta has been treated in the press since he was Arsenal manager to Postacoglu at Spurs. Of course the pressure is rightly higher at Arsenal but the media is so friendly to Spurs in general it’s unreal - they are desperate for them to succeed