Okay. I’ll remove that part of my viewpoint. But the what I see as stomach churning hero worship for him remains in place.

Everyone who loves football can appreciate class players even if they don’t play for your club.

I remember being at Wembley for our champions league game v Dinamo Kyiv and seeing Shevchenko terrifying our defence for the first time. We contained him and think got a draw (might be wrong) and if I recall Big Tone made a world class tackle to stop him but you could just see he was class.

Deep analysis there B!

Fair enough. That’s your prerogative, especially if you find it stomach churning.

My personal observations are shaped by the fact that he is a one off. I can’t think of any player over the past few decades who does what he does. I like seeing different players and styles.

Sure it’s understandable to appreciate players of other clubs. As people here know I appreciate Harry Kane, not only for his excellence over many years but his loyalty to Tottenham.

But stomach churning hero worship, which is how I see some of the stuff here about Haaland, I find quite sickening.

A one off? Unique (if that’s what you mean by you can’t think of anyone else) over the past few decades? Do you watch loads of Dortmund? If not his games for City still number single figures (nine). That’s very quick to call him words to the effect of unique.

How about Kane who has done it for much longer at a less good team? I may see him as beyond his peak now, but how about Lewandowksi?

How about TH with the best goal per game ratio in Prem history. I'd wait to see how Haaland pans out. Way too early to make an assessment.

I’ve seen lots of Haaland pre-Man City. It is presumptuous of you to assume otherwise. Same as I’ve seen Lewandowski despite him not being in the Premier League.

By one-off I mean that he does things that I have not seen in Kane or Lewandowski (nor for that matter Messi or Mbappe etc). That is not to say that he is better than either, but that he does different things. That’s it really.

Come come LTG, he only has 135 goals in his last 137 games. A good run of games, nothing more. This season's Joe Willock.

That’s basically how I see it.

I was simply asking the question rather than presuming anything. By that standard you can probably call many players unique. Henry, Vieira, Messi, Ronaldo, Thomas Muller, Mbappe, Kane, Lewandowksi and others. Nobody is brilliant at everything, don’t forget. Messi’s strength isn’t heading and Henry’s strength wasn’t tackling. If Rich is right and Haaland only touches the ball ten times a game on average, he presumably is way more reliant on his teammates to provide him with assists so his infrequent touches are crucial than, say, Henry was.

Currently Haaland looks like a world class penalty box poacher, very few touches, not involved in any build up, just phenomenal positioning, touch and finishing ability. However, would he be as effective in a different team not built to his strengths? Him and City certainly seem to be a match made in heaven - City have creative technicians galore they work it in to the box and give chances and half chances to Haaland who finishes them. What would he be like in a different team, can he make a goal out of nothing? I've not seen him do that. The likes of Henry could. Messi certainly can. Ronaldo when he was younger could but in his later years I'd put Ronaldo in the phenomenal penalty box finisher category.

It is these sorts of reasons why someone like Ian Wright is actually under appreciated. He played with some fairly average players and in teams whose tactics were defend first and give it to him to score a goal - and he very often did and some quite magical solo goals and goals out of nothing.

Great point about Wrighty

He’s scored 20 goals in 21 games for Norway
62 in 67 games for dortmund
17 goals in 16 games for red bull
13 goals in 9 appearances so far for city


Haaland also set a new U-20 World Cup record for most goals scored by a single player in a match. He scored 9

That’s ridiculous stats.

Beginner's luck?

Vince !

I thought the quotes from Arteta about him going on loan were subject to us being able to bring in another player in the Jan window

Yep, phenomenal goal-scoring stats. Up there with what Messi and Ronaldo have done for 10 years straight. But watching Messi play vs anyone else in the world shows me he's infinitely the best footballer, certainly of my generation. People compare Messi and Ronaldo (or Haaland) on their goal scoring - which Messi just comes out on top - but Messi is far more than just goals. He is the best creative player I've ever seen play the game as well.
In summary Messi can do everything Haaland and Ronaldo do in terms of goal scoring but neither of them can get close to anything else Messi does on the pitch

Zinchenko is out of the Brentford game, 2 week injury.

Without checking the line ups for all our games this season, I would be surprised if the most common starting eleven for Arsenal so far wasn’t Ramsdale (keeper), White (right back), Zinchenko (left back), Saliba (central defence), Gabriel (central defence), Partey (central midfield), Xhaka (central midfield), Ødegaard (attacking central midfield), Zaka (wide right), Martinelli (wide left), Jesus (striker).

But if everyone in the squad is fully fit and not suspended, what do people think our starting eleven should be for a big game where nobody will be rested?

The possible options to me look Tomiyasu or White at right back, two of Saliba, Gabriel and White in central defence, Tierney or Zinchenko at left back, two of Partey, Xhaka and Zinchenko in central midfield, Ødegaard and Smith Rowe at attacking central midfield), Saka or Marquinhos at wide right, Martinelli or Smith Rowe at wide left, with Jesus or Nketiah as striker.

Obviously some players are options for more than one position like White at right back or central defence, Zinchenko at left back or central midfield, and Smith Rowe at attacking central midfield or wide left. So a choice between where they play has to be made.

I think my own choice would be a starting eleven of Ramsdale (keeper), Tomiyasu (right back), Tierney (left back), Saliba (central defence), Gabriel (central defence) Partey (central midfield), Zinchenko (central midfield), Ødegaard (attacking central midfield), Saka (wide right), Martinelli (wide left), Jesus (striker).

The reason I’ve put Zinchenko in midfield is although he’s played commendably at left back, he goes wandering a bit too often leaving the left side of our defence gaping wide open (which Tierney doesn’t do). I want Zinchenko in the team somewhere and I’ve had him replace Xhaka rather than Partey because for balance, like Xhaka, he’s left footed. Arguably a bit of an odd decision as I think Xhaka has had a better season than Partey so far, but there you go.

Bit harsh on White maybe, but I think Tomiyasu is the better right back and I’d go with Saliba and Gabriel in central defence. Sadly I’m struggling to fit Smith Rowe in anywhere as a starter. Ødegaard centrally and Martinelli on the left both get in ahead of him.

The left back hoodoo is catching then.

If Tierney plays it won’t make too much difference, if any at all. Zinchenko has played very well at left back but as I said in my longer post above, he does go wandering to leave the left side of our defence exposed. Tierney doesn’t do that.

Indeed. In fact it might work in our favour. His omission from the national side will give him a longer period to properly recover.

Sorry for being defeatist but Haaland scores again.

I wouldn’t be surprised to see him get 50+ goals in all competitions this season.

He’s probably gonna get another 3 in the second half alone.

Wolves down to 10 after one of the worst challenges you’ll see. The players boot almost went directly through grealishs chest made even funnier by the wolves players complaining anyway

How thrilling for City fans…and an Arsenal fan perhaps?

Charlie Patino starts for Blackpool today, and has scored.

Yeah I hope Leicester go down

Useless twats who give it the big un ‘and deliver nothing.


Utterly pathetic

Bit of a downer.

Tottenham have certainly mastered the art of playing poorly but winning.

Looking at the result against Leicester you'd think they were utterly dominant and yet for a large period of the game they were second best. Infact, there were audible groans from the Spurs supporters as more and more passes went astray and possession was lost time and time again.

What it clearly shows is that they are utterly ruthless on the counter attack. Son came on a scored a hat-trick, including two curling efforts which no-one in our team currently would have scored. Martinelli threatens to cut-inside and score those curling efforts but rarely does at the moment. Saka too is capable of those kind of goals but isn't firing on all cyclinders. Jesus has the ability but those kind of goals are not really his forte.

It's annoying because Son was looking out of sorts this season but now he's back to his best ahead of the derby.

How long Spurs can go on playing badly but winning is debatable but with those forward options it looks likely to continue for a good while.

Tough game today.

As Mee (RIP) would have so eloquently pointed out its an early kick-off on a tight little ground with a voiciferous home support and against a team with no shortage of physicality.

Last season I saw people (perhaps you were one) moan about playing them away in the evening. Now you’re worried it’s an early kick off. When do you want to play them socrates?

If we lose today it won’t have anything to do with the kick off time.

Absolutely.

Not going to be easy at all. Feels like it could one of those games where it’s all about winning the second ball.

A win of any kind would be fantastic

Hi Bernard,

I wouldn't want to play them at night under lights. 12pm ko is marginally better because the crowd might be still half asleep (and the players as well) but 2pm, 3pm or 4.30pm are better times I think.

Plus the players undoubtedly have a matchday routine which is interrupted by a very early kick-off.

I always feel that evening kick-offs and midday kick-offs against teams like Brentford are a bit more difficult and are a bit of a levelling out, just like if its really windy or there's torrential rain. At least it looks like being a calm, sunny day today.

Not an excuse at all but just adds an extra degree of difficulty to the game.

15 year old Ethan Nwaneri on the bench for us today.

Obviously won't get on barring an emergency, but imagine if he did. Would he be Arsenal's youngest every player?

Morning socrates. Surely the Brentford players will also have a match day routine that will be just as interrupted as our one. Vociferous crowd? This is Brentford we’re talking about. It’s not Ibrox or Celtic Park. It’s not even White Hart Lane. Indeed, with a 12 noon kick off haven’t the Brentford crowd got less time to get sozzled than they would with a later kick off? That may make them less vociferous?

I just think we have to stop making too much of potential if not imaginary problems. In general Arsenal have better players than Brentford and as I wouldn’t swap Arteta for Frank, I think a better manager. Of course that doesn’t mean we’ll win or even draw as anyone can beat anybody in a one off game. But I’d like to think there’s more chance of Arsenal winning than Brentford.

What’s up with Ødegaard?