Touch wood!

Yessss!!!!
3 precious points!!!

Tough place to win is palace
Knew we had utd in game 4 but didn't realise we had city spurs and Chelsea all in the next 5 after utd.

Hard fought win.

Not convinced by the Partey RB experiment, Tomiyasu at LB or Havertz. Whether its a system that will eventually come good I don't know but Partey is far better in central midfield, Havertz ambles around a bit too much for my liking and Tomiyasu is not really a LB.

I would have liked to have seen more composure when down to 10, City still dominate even when down to 10 whilst we went into panic mode and kept smashing the ball upfield with no one up there.

Still its always difficult to pick up 3 points in a night game at Selhurst Park so we got the job done....just.

Lulling the opposition into a false sense of security eh?

Now that’s said I’ll be honest and say I don’t understand many things at the moment.

We have square pegs in round holes as far as I can see. Our football seems very rigid and unexpressive. It’s like a rigid set up to stop the opponent counter attacking but in the final third we haven’t impressed.

I don’t get Havertz yet. I was expecting a player closer to Ødegaard in terms of his technical ability in the final third and his ability to play deft passes and be an attacking option around the box. So far we haven’t seen this at all. Haven given up on him yet but there’s a massive question mark for me.

Defensive set up dont get me started. Not starting Gabriel is absurd and the notion we will sell him preposterous

Our interplay on our left flank is poor. Not helped by not having a natural left back. Martinelli needs a quick ball from the back and rarely gets it. What he would give to have fabregas in this side.

A work in progress hopefully,

Before I launch in to the ref, we haven’t really worked out how to play with 10 men. Ok we can do the all out defence job but I rarely see us offer anything going forward when we’re down to 10, luckily last season it didn’t happen at all but with the new ref edict which is basically do whatever you want it will happen more and more this season

When we did try to play a bit of possession football we did so effortlessly for a good few minutes until Zinny tried an unnecessary trick. Quite a lot of what we did today didn't seem very clever.

So I have regularly given refs loads of abuse over the years and I wonder now if more people are starting to think like me. They are just simply awful.
I haven’t seen the replay of Tomiyasu’s first yellow but people online are suggesting he had the ball for 8 seconds….is 8 seconds time wasting now? Can anyone confirm that is true?

The second yellow is possibly the worst second yellow decision I’ve seen for a very long time. There’s no contact there’s no foul, serious questions have to be asked of that ref. Also they need to change the rule that second yellows get reviewed by VAR, they have exactly the same effect on the game as straight reds all of which are reviewed by VAR so why not 2nd yellows? There is no logical or sensible explanation. Var is there to get the big game changing decisions right. That was a wrong and potentially game changing decisions.

All made worse by Ayew escaping his second yellow for pulling back Saka with a shirt pull, a far more clear cut yellow.

Once again, the Arsenal argument isn’t necessarily focussed on the decision against us it’s more than no one else gets punished for that exact same thing, especially in games against us!

We broke the golden rule which is you sub your centre forward and stick your fastest player (martinelli) on the halfway line to try and get a break. Crazy we didn’t do that.

That said the cameo from Jorginho was good and he knocked the ball about well.

Arteta is trying to make us more unpredictable but for now we need to go back to what works
Ramsdale, Zinchenko, white, Saliba, Gabriel, Partey, rice, Ødegaard, Saka, Martinelli….and then just choose from Havertz, Nketiah and Trossard for the forward position - each offer something different.

I know Arteta wants that extra midfielder in there and I get it for Forest at home. But most away games in this league are tough, it’s a place for Gabriel, it’s a place for solidity at the back and in the middle of the pitch, then we have the talent up front to win the game

To be fair, that first yellow was warranted. Tomiyasu was unlucky it went to him, but you can't get away with time wasting on a throw by passing it to a teammate.

VAR for second yellow is a no brainer. The whole point is to stop clear and obvious errors in match changing situations so ...

One of my big problems with the PGMOL is they are incapable of applying common sense. So a new directive comes in and it’s a sudden change to 100mph. Everything is either all in or nothing at all.

VAR is the same, VAR either agrees with the ref or 100% makes him change his mind.

None of this matters when the officials are utterly incapable of making basic decisions and crucially not being swayed by a partisan home crowd, the state of the game or the name of a player.

Pathetic once again and we’re only 2 weeks in.
Wolves have had an apology for the missed pen, Mac Allister was given a joke of a red card. Liverpool given a joke of a penalty, now Tomiyasu with one of the weakest 2nd yellows you’ll ever see. Plus an 8 second time wasting yellow - has a player ever had 2 yellows without even committing a foul, even touching an opponent!

The Partey penalty, he gets away with it because he’s pulling his leg away. The PGMOL have said that contact doesn’t automatically equal a penalty of the fall is exaggerated. That’s not a penalty. But I can see why Palace would want it if the threshold is the penalty Liverpool got at the weekend

No prozes for seeing where the red card occurred. Arsenal totally dominant to that point - yet many will say we were lucky to win.

This shows you how much refs can influence games. We should g have let Palace have as much of it even down to 10 but it flipped the game and the only lucky thing for us in this game is we were determined enough to not let the referee decide the game.

Another day Palace equalise that late chance and some people will moan at Arsenal for not being good enough and we should beat teams by more to not rely on these refs decisions. Refs can decide games just as much as players can

Ditto. Not convinced at all.

The Tomiyasu red was an early warning. We just didn’t look comfortable in that position All night.

I saw Ashley walters rowing on twitter about the left back position and have to say I agreed. After that game it seems inconceivable to me we are going to sell KT. We won’t sign a replacement and it leaves us with 1 player in the squad Zinchenko why can play there and 2 more who can do a job at a push but would not be ideal or excel there.

We really needed to bring on Tierney/Zinchenko and Gab after we scored. Both flanks were a disaster waiting to happen.

And once again Saka and Martinelli only withdrawn when we went into all-hands-to-pumps mode. I wish Arteta would rotate the front player a bit more. Emile Smith Rowe, Nelson (and to a certain extent, Trossard) should be getting minutes because we are going to need them at some point.

Arsenal took 24 seconds over the throw where Tomiyasu was booked, Tomiyasu himself only took 8 of those. He was clearly the fall guy for a ‘team yellow’ and it was a yellow where the ref cowered to the crowd pressure.

The average time taken for throws in the match was 19 seconds. There were 6 throw ins that took longer than Tomiyasu’s and none of them were carded, 4 of those were palace throw ins before Arsenal took the lead.

The problem we have is we’re asking for yet another layer of consistency from a group of refs who have proven themselves anything but consistent in the past.

At home our fans need to be on top of the refs from the first minute every game for any delay in getting the ball back in play

That was a huge psychological boost for the team, and for the whole club.

And further evidence that there is a steeliness about this team now.

Well done boys.

Begs the question--why don't the off-field officials time throw ins and set pieces.

Otherwise it is too subjective as you suggest. Apart from the crowd, the context of the match affects how time is perceived. I thought that throw took ages because it looked like blatant timewasting, and I was worried we were going to attract a silly yellow, and I was wondering exactly what the point of wasting time was.

Nwaneri. I remember the game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIOeY-93l6s

It's what you do ALL the time.

It was our fault entirely. Look bust at the throw-in and don't don't dawdle or you'll get booked especially away from home and you're one up. The refs aren't going to time throw-ins and every player needs rightly to be cognisant of this with every match.

I’ve seen a compilation of Rice last night and he was bloody excellent. Exactly the type of player we needed to win games like this. He’s far more the Xhaka upgrade than Havertz who I see as more of a utility forward.

Also there was a passage of play from 89-91 mins where with 10 men we kept the ball the whole time. 2 minutes might not sound like a long time but it was very very good. Arteta got some of the late subs bang on. Zinchenko and Jorginho bring an air of calm and just do not give the ball away. We already had the gritty thou shall not pass this 6ft+ player type on so there was no more need to reinforce like that.

It feels like Arteta is doing his best Guardiola impression of occasionally overthinking things. Sacrificing Partey's midfield presence to employ him as an inverted RB seems ludicrous, Tomiyasu is not really a great LB whilst Havertz hardly adds to the dynamism of our midfield.

We look less fluid and less dynamic than last year.

When we went down to ten men we *%^@ our pants and could barely string two passes together, unlike City who would have continued to dominate. We only looked a bit more composed when Zinny, Kiwior and Jorginho were on the pitch.

I agree with TG, not having an out ball when down to ten is asking for trouble. Martinelli as the lone striker would have seemed the logical tactical switch. Instead we kept launching the ball foward to no one.

That said, I thought Rice was outstanding.

Given the probability that Palace would have taken a draw as a good result before the game kicked off, is their taking time over throw ins at 0-0 not exactly the same as us taking time over throw ins at 1-0?

As always, I’m absolutely fine with us being punished for it and other indiscretions as long as everyone is also punished similarly, or at least the majority are and we’re not the outlier. The foul by Ayew that didn’t earn a second yellow vs the ‘foul’ by Tomiyasu that did were ridiculous. Even go back to the Community Shield and look at the clear drag back Rodri did that didn’t earn him a card. If what Tomiyasu did is a yellow in every game then games will absolutely end 7v7. Ex refs and pundits can line up and spot a tiny bit of contact to justify the second yellow but they know it’s nonsense and that kind of incident doesn’t result in a yellow card 99 times out of a 100. I often find we are the 1 time

Agree with all of that.
I understand that Arteta wants to make us less predictable and I think he also clearly wants to add another technical body in for games we expect to dominate, and I think signing Havertz is key to his thinking in those games as well to use his physical attributes at the back post to benefit from Saka/Ødegaard crosses……but making us less predictable has made us less fluent.

I expect more experimenting v Fulham at home and we’ll probably be ok doing it but against Man U we have to go back to the tried and tested even if that means Havertz dropping out. There’s no way we can play Man U with Partey at right back and it’s potentially Rashford running at him or being left in space. Even White struggled against Rashford last year, Tomiyasu came on second half and shut him down

https://x.com/benvenceremos/status/1693 ... -j6VVZXEoA

Two incidents where players could have got a 2nd yellow card

Thing is we only even tried that a couple of times, On that occasion we held the ball comfortably and even looked threatening.

Mostly it was just walloping it upfield or worse, into touch. There was one aimless hoick to touch that Partey did that reminded my of Naas Botha.

I hope the first two games are not a template for how we intend to defend leads this season ...whether with 10 or 11 men.

Rice was great. We should just play him in the Xhaka role and we won't need to have an 'extra' body in midfield. Nketiah did an excellent job throughout apart from that miss.

The reason why Zinchenko and Timber can invert is they are nimble and have a low centre of gravity so can evade challenges and both can move the ball very quickly. This makes them perfect to play the inverted role as they drift in and complement our midfield. Not everyone can do this, requires a certain type of player so shoehorning Partey or anyone else in may not work. I thought Gary Neville made some decent observations about inverted full backs on Monday night football (and absolutely no other topic!)

I believe 1 of the issues with Gabriel might be salary. He’s on half of what Saliba is on now and that must grate a bit. I will be relieved when the transfer window shuts.

You will definitely see a return of last years defence at some point it’s just a case of when. United definitely but maybe Saturday. Zinchenko will be brought back into the fold because he’s our only decent left back and that means Arteta won’t be able to pick Partey as much as he would like. I would say Havertz will make way with Partey moving to midfield. Havertz hasn’t been bad at all he’s done ok it’s just he’s not providing what xhaka brought to the side and it’s slightly surprising as he’s less dynamic than I was expecting. It would be foolish to write him off and it took granit a while to assume the role also.

FFS! You're like a 12 year old. All teams everymatch get decisions for and against.

Talk of Pépé being reintegrated into the squad as cover for Saka.

This is not the worst idea I've ever heard but I assume if its being thought about its because we haven't been able to offload enogh players (including him) to allow us to move on the type of target we want.

Not to mention the need perhaps to switch to finding defensive cover.

Contrary to what I said previously after watching last nights game I think the player we need most desperately now is an experienced left back who can also cover the right flank if needed. You just know Zinchenko will pick up an injury and miss games and utilising a centre back in his position won’t be effective long term.

Play like that defensively in the champions league and we will get our arses handed to us.

Have to say I always think the palace left back Mitchell does reasonably well against us.

I’m not talking about other teams I’m talking about decisions in Arsenal games. We get decisions which are one off style decisions and big game changing decisions. Surely it is more naive to believe decisions even themselves out over the course of a season?
Of course other teams get bad decisions, Brighton we’re particularly hard done by last season.
I will often outline bizarre decisions that go against us, if people are so convinced that we receive just as many of these eye brow raising decisions FOR us then I’ll happily hear them. If people are convinced I/we just take notice of the ones perceived to go against us then prove it by showing me the ones we do get.
I can see last night some people may say Partey could have given away a penalty, I don’t think it was but can see that some refs would give it to with only one view. Maybe it’s a 50/50 call but that Tomiyasu one is just not 50/50.
I can think of one soft penalty we got last year in the Liverpool home game, but can lost countless others last year that were nailed on for us.

Good player but very much a traditional left back. There aren’t many players who can do what Zinchenko does. If we can’t find one for the left then go for Fresneda who can do it from the right then you open up the ability to play Kiwior or Tierney as the nominal left back who ticks in to for the back 3

There’s always the danger of over inflating a players ability when they’re injured, and Jesus isn’t the prolific 25 league goals a season striker most Arsenal fans want but he is the kind of player that allows others to play well, he seems to knit together the attack so well.
Martinelli for one plays better with Jesus than Nketiah because Jesus drifts to the left whereas Nketiah stays central.

The right axis of White/Ødegaard/Saka works really well, last year we have Zinchenko/Xhaka/Martinelli/Jesus on the left. Martinelli hasn’t had the other 3 to play with yet this season.

I think Havertz in the left 8 becomes better when Jesus plays as well

Mavropanos to West Ham. Small sell on clause for Arsenal of about £1.5-2m

This nonsense about time wasting at throw ins, if you prepared for every throw in in the opponents half as a chance to launch a long throw in to the box, and waited for a centre back to run forward you would be allowed much longer time. The same with free kicks if you want a shot at goal direct from it.
PGMOL have dug themselves in to a hole that will just expose the impossibility of being consistent so there will always be disgruntlement and will lead people to scrutinise other incidents where teams weren’t punished as they were.
Once again refereeing is in the gutter. 2 weeks in and we’ve had 2 admitted errors that neither the ref on the pitch or the 2 VAR refs were able to come to the right conclusion on.

There was a briefing this year that there would be more tolerance on physical contact, why was this not applied to Tomiyasu- where there was little or no contact?

Hi Rich,

To be honest there was no reason for Ben White (i think it was) to spend several seconds looking to take the throw and then hand the ball to Tomiyasu to take it. The yellow for Tomiyasu was more for the team's collective timewasting. As frustrating as it was for us, if Palace had been 1-0 up and done the same we'd have all been moaning about them taking too long.

As for the 2nd yellow, in real time it looked like a tug back to prevent a break and I thought Tomiyasu will be very lucky to get away with it. I'm sure the ref probably saw what looked like a deliberate tug on the shirt to prevent a dangerous break and felt he had little option but to issue a yellow. Of course with the benefit of replays the contact was shown as minimal, this is more the issue and they should allow VAR to look at 2nd yellows just to make sure. If this had been Tomiyasu's first yellow I doubt many would have complained too much.

Overall, we lost a man with 20 mins to go but we were awarded a pen which could have been overturned due to Partey's slight foul and they had a penalty appeal turned down for the sort of pen I have often seen given so I don't think the refeeing was especially biased or incompetent.

I do agree, the long throw-in close to the box where the CBs go forward needs looking at if you want stop a throw-in taking too long.