Obviously I’m gutted by today’s result even though I didn’t think we were going to win all our remaining games. It’s more the 2nd half performance which was so disappointing as Villa just took control and we were unable to wrestle it back. Is it a case of not having the squad when we needed to rotate because I thought we lacked energy and sharpness in the 2nd half.

Losing at home to Villa on a perfect day on a perfect pitch in the manner we did, with two extra days rest as well, does not inspire confidence that our mental issues are behind us.

Infact, I'd say the last few games of the season in a title run-in are almost more of a mental challenge than they are a physical challenge.

If we bounce back with a top display against Bayern I might revisit my argument but at this point it looks like a mentally weak second half display today.

I'm not taking anything away from Villa who were superb.

I don't think Arteta trusts his back-ups enough to give them the playing time during the season that would make them viable options now. We needed a goal but Nketiah never got a sniff, Martinelli isn't firing on all cyclinders but Nelson isn't an option it seems.

For the second season in a row we have overplayed our key players and they look mentally and physically exhausted just when we need them at their best levels.

True ... because there is this perception , that no matter how many points Arsenal are in front there will be a mini collapse that will derail our title challenge .

With the disaster mid week and todays ; every bloke and his dog can start sniggering BOTTLERS and it does appear that way .

An optimistic view might be to say .... "Okay we've done bloody well this season but the title was a "Bridge too Far " without a proper out and out striker , rectify that in the summer and next year will be our year .

Still seething from the loss

Too gutted to post yesterday. That one hurt.

Got to the ground 30 minutes before kick off and when I entered block 133 nearly everyone in the lower tier was focussed on the TVs. Almost went to turn right to go up the stairs but thought hang on I’ll check. To my amazement palace we’re beating the scousers. Such an opportunity.

I can’t really add much to what has already been said apart from it was such an energy less performance in the 2nd half and how we didn’t score in the first I don’t know.

It's not about mentality stop that silliness because we have that we just don’t have enough firepower within the squad to maintain the pace we need. Highlighted the obvious need for a striker but for me we need a 2nd playmaker in the mix as too much burden is placed on Ødegaard. We also just haven’t got enough off the bench. Eddie, Emile Smith Rowe and vieira. Just not good enough to win titles and where does that leave you. With several players dead on their feet.

I think if the club intend on maintaining a title push next year some difficult decisions may need to be made on certain players and I’m not talking about the obvious departures of Emile Smith Rowe and Eddie but those who have featured heavily and not really produced

Bollocks nevermind.

He’s been playing with 12 stitches in a bad laceration in his foot. The stitches were still in for the last game he played even. Must have an impact

But overplaying the best players had got us to 1st place with 7 games to go. Where in the season could we have rested players for a significant period and still have got all the results we have? Bernardo Silva has been rested for 9 league games this season by Pep.

Tthe trusting back ups also goes hand in hand with the other point made about not having enough match winners who have those moments of brilliance from nowhere. You can afford to trust your back ups if you have de Bruyne smashing one in the top corner from 30 yards to bail you out. When people say winning when not playing well is the sign of champions it’s often because a special player has done something special to bail them out. We don’t have that. Liverpool have it but they don’t have the ability to control games like we do. City have both the individuals and the control

The prem is becoming the bundesliga. Bayern/City win every year. Leverkusen have had to go unbeaten all season to win there, Liverpool got 82 points out of 87 in the first 29 games to win the title here.
City haven’t even been on their best form this season!

The sooner those charges are bought the better. It’s a farce how long it’s taken for them to be heard considering how quickly Everton and Forest were dealt with. People say they were quicker because they complied with the process, well not complying should carry an automatic points deduction in itself. Everton got 6 points for 1 breach. City have 115 breaches.

No matter what happens to City the league has been tainted since they and Chelsea ‘arrived’. Even if the charges are massive and titles are stripped it’s like being given the Olympic gold after a drugs cheat failed their test. You didn’t get to celebrate your win to feel like you did win it.

The continued City thing has me so frustrated. You can play how we have for so long and 1 bad 45 minutes possibly loses you the title to those cheats. We obviously can only control 2 of City’s results, but if the rest of the league really want to do something about it I would love to see something ridiculously outrageous like every single team declared they will forfeit their matches v City each year as a form of protest. City win every game 3-0 but never get to take the field. Of course this never happens but it would spark action! The league would become a laughing stock

Well done to Xhaka and his teammates.

https://www.football365.com/news/emery- ... la-watkins

So the media decided Emery was a laughing stock during his time at Arsenal, they constantly ridiculed and belittled him, now he comes back and is doing well for Villa and the same media delight in telling people he’s proven them wrong.

If the season lasted 30 games we'd be back to back champions. We were either too tired, felt too much pressured or both.

Not to make excuses but I think the CL had a huge impact on us. To what extent, is hard to know. I also will say had Timber stayed healthy, we'd be a much different side. From what I saw in the Charity Shield I think the defense would have been even better. He can play all across the back line and he's better than even Ben White going forward. Far more two footed than White. With him healthy next year, a different story.

Arteta had a mid table showing. I think had we stuck with Emery we'd be fairly close to where we are now, but the problem would have been how long it would have taken. It would have taken longer.

I don#t think we would be where we are now with Emery. Emery thrives in the slight underdog status and his style of football is one that can be successful but I don't think it wins league titles.

Also, worth watching out for Villa when the next scrutiny of accounts is done, they have massively overspent and their turnover to wages ratio is one of the most precarious in the league. Champions League money will help them but they can't keep spending as they have done based on their resources. I'd predict a big player being sold or some sanctions of some kind down the line

With the title in Germany well gone before this weekend Bayern rested virtually their entire team on saturday.
It is one of the big disadvantages of the prem being so competitive in terms of the European prospects. Also, some other european leagues move their best teams games to friday nights to give them the best possible chance in their midweek game - I'm pretty sure the Portuguese league did this for Porto - can you imagine the uproar if the prem did that for the champions league sides?

City have been charged. I don't understand why nothing appears to be happening.

Gunny,

City have the best lawyers in the business defending them. They will run circles around the PL and I suspect most, if not all, of the charges will eventually be thrown out on technicalities or from lack of definitive proof.

Don't hold your breath for any significant punishment such as demotions and/or stripping of titles.

They are already talking about the PL removing FFP or at the very least watering it down substantially at some point moving forward so I suspect this will all get glossed over in the fullness of time.

I agree with you Rich. It's not a 'mental issue'.

Its like someone who is no 3 or 4 in the world at tennis or snooker repeatedly losing in finals to the number 1. Being in contention and then losing isn't choking. Choking is when you should win and don't.

Yesterday we ran out of steam because of the way we pressed in the first half and because too many of our players (Havertz, Ødegaard, Rice, Saka, Gabriel and Saliba in particular) are being asked to play 180 minutes of high intensity football twice a week. We could have won yesterday (we had plenty of chances) but didn't.

It's stochastic. The wheels might not have fallen off yesterday but they were very likely to at some point. Similarly Liverpool. You mention Villa playing on Thursday. Yes they won yesterday but got smashed by City and Spurs recently and couldn't beat Brentford or West Ham. So they are also struggling with the schedule.

City on the other hand can rotate very easily so are always going to have a massive advantage at this end of the season when other sides are suffering from injuries or struggling on too many fronts.

I've seen a lot of pundits and fans slate the line up yesterday. Very much a why change from Havertz up top and Jorginho holding and Kiwior at left back when it was that that had us going on this brilliant run. I have lots of issues with this. Firstly I didn't see any complaints on the line up when it was announced by any of the pundits, secondly it made total sense. Zinchenko, Trossard and Jesus all had an impact from the bench v Bayern and are all solid first team players it shouldn't have been a risk starting them. Similarly playing Rice as a 6 instead of Jorginho wasn't a shock, especially when Zinchenko drifts in to midfield to do part of the job Jorginho does well.
I think there is far too much analysis based on the result in football, too much hindsight.

Sometimes you can look at a game and say Arsenal should have had the game wrapped up in the first half and then they were a bit gassed and Villa played very well and clinically took advantage. It can happen.

Earlier in the season City were 2-0 at home to Palace with 14 minutes remaining and drew 2-2. The only reason this as an isolated moment wasn't called mentally weak was because City had proven they can win things. But as an isolated performance why is it any better than some of the results we and Liverpool got called out for?

Exactly, if that is the measurement for mental weakness then every single team from 2nd to 20th are mentally weak. Do sheffield U get described as mentally weak because they can't handle these pressure games that could save or commit then to relegation? no, people just accept their players are inferior to the teams above them.

City have mastered the small squad, no injuries and optimum rotation. It obviously helps to have top class players to rotate in, but Pep manages it really well. Despite De Bruyne's big injury this year they've once again (as last year) been hugely injury free - even more so than ourselves.

If you look to match up ourselves and City on the basis Arteta is very much from the Pep school of thought I'd argue there is not much between the defences. Both sets of defences are tall, physical, quick and crucially very flexible.

In midfield the big advantage City has over us is the ball players, creative types. De Bruyne, Foden, Bernardo are all elite. We only really have Ødegaard in this role for us - the back ups being Smith-Row and Vieira. Remove those two from our squad and bring in players of Bernardo Silva's ilk and we close that gap. defensive mid, Rice/Partey/Jorginho v Rodri/Kovacic/Nunes. Likely an area we're going to need replacements this summer as well

forwards - the only difference is Haaland. In an up and down season he has 20 league goals. I don't see huge difference between the sets of saka/martinelli/trossard/jesus v grealish/doku/alavrez/Bobb. A top goalscorer can make all those wingers look a lot better as well

Thinking again, the comparisons with last season are miles off.
Last year, 2-0 up against Liverpool- got battered and were lucky to come away with a 2-2
2-0 up v west ham, went in to our shell, missed a pen and drew 2-2
then the ultimate bed wetting was at home to Southampton, went 2-0 down early through some nervous play and ended up scraping a 3-3.

vs Villa the plan was fine, we were getting behind them all the time with Havertz runs, Trossard missed a glorious chance, Jesus poor header, Saka just wide - we battered them for 45 minutes and ran out of steam and Villa adjusted superbly in the second half and we did react.

I’ll wait to the end of the season before going into meltdown or throwing around a lot of excuses. Let’s just see where we end up. This City team is not as good as previous incarnations but they still have a great manager. But one thing I will say right now is that harping on about City’s alleged financial advantages has nothing to do with how we perform on the pitch. We neutralised them in games this season. Now we need to produce against other teams and systems. I look forward to us progressing at Bayern in our next match.

We're tired. That was obvious. Not an excuse but what seems obvious. Had Timber stayed healthy the defense would have been far more solid from what I saw of him in the CS game.

For the rest of the season, I'd like us to at least have some pride and finish no worse than 2nd. And for the fans that stuck by you, I'd expect them to beat Spurs and Man Utd. Chelsea would have been a given 48 hours ago but I'd add them too. Drop points elsewhere but not to them.

We can win at BM. We may not see a BM team this weak in a while. They will certainly buy in the summer and not let Leverkusen have so easy again. Gnabry is out I hear for the return leg and that is huge. Not looking forward to the possibility of City in a semi but lets give it a try anyway.

Let's take the 'Arsenal bottled it' accusations with some class. Accept it, smile and move on.

Very fine margins and think we’ve always been up against it with the run in that we have. Tbh we could hav easily been 2 or 3 up but the finishing was too casual and poor for this level. As painful as it is to give up the top it ain’t over yet and City are still capable of being beaten.

A real bugbear of mine has been how far behind we are other top 6 clubs in our turnover. I can accept that Man City's figures are farcical and cheated, and can also accept that Man U and Liverpool have a bigger worldwide fan base than us, but the gap generally and to chelsea and spurs is unacceptable

22/23 figures below in euros

City:
825m total, 399m commercial

Man U:
746m total, 355m commercial

Liverpool:
683m total, 298m commercial

Spurs:
631m total, 261m commercial

Chelsea:
589m total, 242m commercial

Arsenal:
533m total, 195m commercial

I know we've signed a few deals recently, £10m for the training ground sponsor but how on earth is it we're some near 370m per season behind Spurs? There is no reason for that gap, it should be the other way given the size and success of the clubs. That extra £70m should be so easily attainable and it would effectively give us a top name striker

Agreed their financial advantage has no bearing on how we perform except in 2 games but it gives them a bit of an advantage in the league, without which we'd already have 1 title in the bag from last year and be on route to defending that title this year.

The conclusion of the charges against City will be one of the biggest seismic moments in english football whichever way the charges go. If they stick and the punishment is sufficient it brings football in to line and returns to fair competition, if they are dropped then its open season for just the richest owner to win - the players themselves no longer become the main factor in winning football matches.

I do agree about getting our heads down and winning our games, win the next 2 and put 4 points between us and City and force them to win it - we can't hand it to them. Make them win their final 6 games. Brighton away is the kind of game that City can lose because Brighton are so brave in their gameplan - the kind of team that if they get it right can win, unlike the 10 behind the ball smash and grab tactic which very very rarely beats City

I actually don’t rate Guardiola as much as his record seems to show. Unlimeted resources everywhere he’s been. Corruptly state financed at Barca, Bayern Munich who win 8/10 regardless and failed miserably in the CL while he was there, then moves to the most financially doped team on the planet where he gets the exact player he wants in every position to suit his system and it still takes him 5 years to win the CL. Tactically clever sure but the best manager ever with the resources he’s had?…bollox

With the financial backing they have, I suspect Rich's list will include Newcastle in a few years.

Congratulations to Xhaka !!!!!!
And Bayer Leverkusen

I am not saying he is the greatest manager ever but a great manager. He is a cut above some of the others. And just having a lot of money guarantees nothing. You still have to consistently get it together on the pitch. Look at Chelsea’s spending since Roman left as an example.

Great game. Old school, muddy pitch, etc.

On to Munich, Tuchel says Gnabry is out and Coman and Sane are doubts. would be huge for us if those other 2 are out. The pace on the wings is where they really killed us.

Ødegaard is a possible doubt for us - which will be a big dilemma for Arteta. Ødegaard missed a 3 game stretch earlier in the season and Arteta went with Havertz on the right, Rice left and Jorginho holding. He could easily do that again with Jesus up top but given what happened at the weekend he might be hesitant.

Can we take a risk on Partey? Probably not as I don't think he's had the minutes in his legs yet.

I'm more and more coming to the conclusion that Jesus needs to be used out wide more now. That more classic mould centre forward can't come soon enough in the summer

Quite possibly. Quite how anyone truly believes Man City generate as much commercial revenue as Real Madrid is beyond me. You only have to look at it and say that can't be right. Commercial revenue by and large is going to go hand in hand with the quantity of worldwide fanbase and your success. 15 years of City success (and not even as successful as Madrid in that time) suddenly propels them to the highest revenue in the world

I suppose a single charge where the accused fully cooperates with the process is going to be resolved quicker. One of City’s 115 charges is for refusing to cooperate with the investigation. In my mind that should be an automatic 1 point penalty. Like refusing to take a drugs test.
It is pretty farcical that the premier league chief exec has happily hung winners medals on City’s players the past 3 years all whilst being the same person bringing these 115 charges against them.

We’ve got a bit of a left back problem. All 3 who would play there lack something.
Zinchenko scared the life out of fans but he’s started and impressed in many big games and wins for us.
Kiwior has improved hugely now he’s not being asked to invert but has looked out of his depth in the biggest games
Tomiyasu has shown he can shut down an area or player defensively but doesn’t offer a huge amount on the ball at left back.

Then we’re pinning hopes on Timber who has never played left back really

I think Pep is one of (if not the) greatest ever. He should have won more CL for sure but that just signifies the jeopardy of knock out competition. He's only failed to win the league 3 times I think as a manager. But the thing that sets him apart is the style of football and the influence he's had on the game generally. Tika Taka, the great Spain national side that dominated 3 tournaments in a row, his 09 Barca side are still the greatest team I've ever seen. Every innovation Pep makes in football is immediately copied by hundreds of teams. The counter press, the false 9, inverted full backs (started that at Bayern), 4 central defenders, a ball playing gk, playing out from the back all the time. With varying degrees of success look how many teams in just the prem play out from the back now, the way it is done was virtually unheard of in this country 10 years ago, teams just didn't do it, or if they did they were under no pressure at all.