Fixtures Tuesday October 26th - Leeds - Emirates Stadium - Carabao Cup - 7:45 Pm

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Post #535361  Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 4:15 pm 
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Pompey Gooner wrote:
I think we all look back on the post-invincibles era far too harshly, purely because we didn't win any pots. This video shows just how dynamite we were.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkXZRHG5RxQ&t=198s

Pep would die for his current City to play with this much verve and pace. It's absolutely electrifying, whatever the size of the players... and there are Bendtners and Eboues out there too. Doesn't look like tika-taka to me. Looks like lightning in a bottle.

That season more than other is tragic on so many levels. We were magnificent, we won nothing, and you can see from moments in this video that other teams saw only one way to stop us, and that was to clatter us around. And on top of that, the media also decided to legitimise the "stop Arsenal by any means necessary" approach and we all know how that ended up... with players in hospital beds having their legs pinned back together.


Watching this clip I can't help but feel we never got the best of Hleb. He had amazing feet.

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Post #535362  Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 4:44 pm 
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Another in a stream of encouraging articles about Patino.

https://metro.co.uk/2021/09/15/arsenal- ... IxGyTYGY3k

Hopefully he will come on as predicted. For some reason the name Henri Lansbury came to mind as I read this one. It’s such a tough road to get to the top.

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Post #535363  Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 5:12 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
...I think the change in style lent more to the fact we didn’t have the finances to sign the top players of height, power and pace anymore. I’m sure wenger would have lapped up drogba, Essien, Yaya Toure if he had the finances.
Yes that is right - he loved powerful players and pre oligarchs those guys could well have been at Arsenal rather than elsewhere. Song, Bendtner, Baptista, Chamakh and Adebayor were strong guys who might have done a better job for Arsene - especially Ade who ended up with a mixed career, rather than the stellar one his talent promised.

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Post #535364  Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 5:16 pm 
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Gunfire wrote:
Watching this clip I can't help but feel we never got the best of Hleb. He had amazing feet.
At Highbury v United I was sat next to a Man U supporter who was gobsmacked by Hleb's skill. "Where did you find him?" This was praise from an unexpected source.

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Post #535365  Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 5:59 pm 
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old man of hoy wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
...I think the change in style lent more to the fact we didn’t have the finances to sign the top players of height, power and pace anymore. I’m sure wenger would have lapped up drogba, Essien, Yaya Toure if he had the finances.
Yes that is right - he loved powerful players and pre oligarchs those guys could well have been at Arsenal rather than elsewhere. Song, Bendtner, Baptista, Chamakh and Adebayor were strong guys who might have done a better job for Arsene - especially Ade who ended up with a mixed career, rather than the stellar one his talent promised.

Absolutely the “he tried to make us Barcelona” myth is also crushed by Michael Carrick saying he was literally supposed to be signing for us on the Monday had cesc not turned in that shock performance in the charity shield that changed wengers mind


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Post #535366  Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 6:01 pm 
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old man of hoy wrote:
Gunfire wrote:
Watching this clip I can't help but feel we never got the best of Hleb. He had amazing feet.
At Highbury v United I was sat next to a Man U supporter who was gobsmacked by Hleb's skill. "Where did you find him?" This was praise from an unexpected source.

Decent player but the bloke couldn’t score in an Amsterdam knocking shop. Didn’t score in 19 appearances for Barcelona and only scored 30 odd goals in his whole career. Probably overachieved rather than under if anything


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Post #535367  Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 6:55 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Absolutely the “he tried to make us Barcelona” myth is also crushed by Michael Carrick saying he was literally supposed to be signing for us on the Monday had cesc not turned in that shock performance in the charity shield that changed wengers mind

To be fair that was actually in 2004, when we still had Vieira and Gilberto. So I don’t see how Carrick crushes any idea about Wenger later turning his back on power and physical presence in midfield.

Interestingly Wenger always fancied Carrick as a player. He used to give talks at AGMs and the only time I ever recall him speaking of a player at another club was when he once spoke glowingly of some kid at West Ham called Michael Carrick. My guess would be it was probably either the 1999, 2000 or 2001 AGM.


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Post #535368  Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 6:55 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
old man of hoy wrote:
At Highbury v United I was sat next to a Man U supporter who was gobsmacked by Hleb's skill. "Where did you find him?" This was praise from an unexpected source.

Decent player but the bloke couldn’t score in an Amsterdam knocking shop. Didn’t score in 19 appearances for Barcelona and only scored 30 odd goals in his whole career. Probably overachieved rather than under if anything

I would say he underachieved considerably given his level of talent. His first touch was sublime. A brilliant dribbler but he had a bizarre mental block when it came to shooting. He just wouldn't shoot. Totally weird.

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Post #535369  Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 8:24 pm 
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Per what AG posted about Franck Ribery not getting the Ballon d'Or. He's Muslim. Converted from Christianity to Islam in 2002, as his wife is of Algerian descent.
Not that there haven't been any Muslim players in the running for this award, Yaya Toure, Karim Benzema, example. Yet don't recall any actually receiving it. So based on that premise, most receiving this award were of the Christian faith. If any Jewish players were ever nominated or won the Ballon d'Or, not aware of it. Really shouldn't matter what religion a player is. If they're exceptional, they deserve it.

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Post #535370  Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 8:25 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
Absolutely the “he tried to make us Barcelona” myth is also crushed by Michael Carrick saying he was literally supposed to be signing for us on the Monday had cesc not turned in that shock performance in the charity shield that changed wengers mind

To be fair that was actually in 2004, when we still had Vieira and Gilberto. So I don’t see how Carrick crushes any idea about Wenger later turning his back on power and physical presence in midfield.

.


It was before Vieira famously did his about turn ..

I was moving from the First Division to a team in the Champions League. I’d heard [Patrick] Vieira was leaving Arsenal and that opened up a space in midfield, so it seemed nailed on that Monday morning I’d be an Arsenal player.

Then, however, came the emergence of youngster Cesc Fabregas against Manchester United in the Community Shield. "I saw that a kid, Cesc Fabregas, only 17, started in Vieira’s place. Fabregas played a blinder but I didn’t think too much about the significance. I sat at home on Sunday night waiting for the call to arrange details of the next day. Arsenal! I couldn’t wait.

Your not trying to replicate Barcelona if your signing Michael Carrick really lets be honest.


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Post #535371  Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 8:36 pm 
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Zed wrote:
Per what AG posted about Franck Ribery not getting the Ballon d'Or. He's Muslim. Converted from Christianity to Islam in 2002, as his wife is of Algerian descent.
Not that there haven't been any Muslim players in the running for this award, Yaya Toure, Karim Benzema, example. Yet don't recall any actually receiving it. So based on that premise, most receiving this award were of the Christian faith. If any Jewish players were ever nominated or won the Ballon d'Or, not aware of it. Really shouldn't matter what religion a player is. If they're exceptional, they deserve it.


Hang on. Zidane is a practicing Muslim and he won it (such a class player) Also George Weah too.

Messi could be a Scientologist and would have won it several times. It’s a stretch at best to suggest there’s religious bias involved.


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Post #535372  Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 8:40 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Your not trying to replicate Barcelona if your signing Michael Carrick really lets be honest.

I’ve never said he was trying to replicate Barcelona in 2004. It’s difficult to put a precise date on it because there probably isn’t one. Logic suggests it’s not something that would happen overnight.

Did Wenger go to bed one night thinking I’m going to continue having physical presence in midfield and wake up the following morning thinking sod that, I’m going to build a midfield with more skilful midgets? No, I’m certain it would have been more gradual.

But trying to sign Carrick in 2004 surely shouldn’t be taken as showing he didn’t want to change our style of play at a later date?


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Post #535373  Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 8:48 pm 
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old man of hoy wrote:
Song, Bendtner, Baptista, Chamakh and Adebayor were strong guys who might have done a better job for Arsene - especially Ade who ended up with a mixed career, rather than the stellar one his talent promised.

Song was the only midfielder in that lot and he made his debut in 2005. Was Baptista, who arrived in 2006, a midfielder or forward? Difficult to say really. Apart from a League Cup game at Anfield, his most suitable role was arguably the Emirates’ car park attendant.


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Post #535374  Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 8:53 pm 
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Zed wrote:
Per what AG posted about Franck Ribery not getting the Ballon d'Or. He's Muslim. Converted from Christianity to Islam in 2002, as his wife is of Algerian descent.
Not that there haven't been any Muslim players in the running for this award, Yaya Toure, Karim Benzema, example. Yet don't recall any actually receiving it. So based on that premise, most receiving this award were of the Christian faith. If any Jewish players were ever nominated or won the Ballon d'Or, not aware of it. Really shouldn't matter what religion a player is. If they're exceptional, they deserve it.

Ribery never won it because he was never close to being the world's best player.


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Post #535375  Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 9:06 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
old man of hoy wrote:
Song, Bendtner, Baptista, Chamakh and Adebayor were strong guys who might have done a better job for Arsene - especially Ade who ended up with a mixed career, rather than the stellar one his talent promised.

Song was the only midfielder in that lot and he made his debut in 2005. Was Baptista, who arrived in 2006, a midfielder or forward? Difficult to say really. Apart from a League Cup game at Anfield, his most suitable role was arguably the Emirates’ car park attendant.

Diaby 2006 also. Certainly not a Barca tika taka type


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Post #535376  Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 9:22 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Bernard wrote:
Song was the only midfielder in that lot and he made his debut in 2005. Was Baptista, who arrived in 2006, a midfielder or forward? Difficult to say really. Apart from a League Cup game at Anfield, his most suitable role was arguably the Emirates’ car park attendant.

Diaby 2006 also. Certainly not a Barca tika taka type

True, but January 2006 still doesn’t mean Wenger didn’t move towards giving less of a priority to physical presence in midfield. We were actually still playing at Highbury in January 2006.

Let me clarify I’m not saying the stadium move was the date it happened. I’m convinced it must have been a gradual decision rather than an overnight one. But I suspect the process was mostly in the Emirates era.


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Post #535377  Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 10:49 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Zed wrote:
Per what AG posted about Franck Ribery not getting the Ballon d'Or. He's Muslim. Converted from Christianity to Islam in 2002, as his wife is of Algerian descent.
Not that there haven't been any Muslim players in the running for this award, Yaya Toure, Karim Benzema, example. Yet don't recall any actually receiving it. So based on that premise, most receiving this award were of the Christian faith. If any Jewish players were ever nominated or won the Ballon d'Or, not aware of it. Really shouldn't matter what religion a player is. If they're exceptional, they deserve it.


Hang on. Zidane is a practicing Muslim and he won it (such a class player) Also George Weah too.

Messi could be a Scientologist and would have won it several times. It’s a stretch at best to suggest there’s religious bias involved.

Exactly why I said it shouldn't matter what religion a player is, if they deserve the award,, they should have it. Only recalled Zidane getting it after I posted. George Weah is now the 25th president of Liberia. No doubt his footballing days are behind him. He and AW go way back.

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Post #535378  Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 10:53 pm 
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Zed wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:

Hang on. Zidane is a practicing Muslim and he won it (such a class player) Also George Weah too.

Messi could be a Scientologist and would have won it several times. It’s a stretch at best to suggest there’s religious bias involved.

Exactly why I said it shouldn't matter what religion a player is, if they deserve the award,, they should have it. Only recalled Zidane getting it after I posted. George Weah is now the 25th president of Liberia. No doubt his footballing days are behind him. He and AW go way back.

Yeah race may not be determinative but who you play for bloody is. Henry should have had it as best player in the world at least once.

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Post #535379  Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 2:27 am 
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Pompey Gooner wrote:
I think we all look back on the post-invincibles era far too harshly, purely because we didn't win any pots. This video shows just how dynamite we were.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkXZRHG5RxQ&t=198s

Pep would die for his current City to play with this much verve and pace. It's absolutely electrifying, whatever the size of the players... and there are Bendtners and Eboues out there too. Doesn't look like tika-taka to me. Looks like lightning in a bottle.

That season more than other is tragic on so many levels. We were magnificent, we won nothing, and you can see from moments in this video that other teams saw only one way to stop us, and that was to clatter us around. And on top of that, the media also decided to legitimise the "stop Arsenal by any means necessary" approach and we all know how that ended up... with players in hospital beds having their legs pinned back together.


Such panache, such confidence!

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Post #535380  Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 6:22 am 
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Rich wrote:
Clear illustration of the lop sided tactics with Tierney’s and Tomiyasu’s touch maps from the Norwich game.

I don’t mind these complex tactics but my biggest concern with them is the effect on the right winger, who either doesn’t get enough help or who has to stay wide because no one else provides the width. It must be a lot more fun being the left winger, Tierney always next to you, you can drift inside and affect the game more.

Especially given who our current right winger is. Pépé needs to be receiving the ball nearer goal.

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Post #535381  Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 6:30 am 
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Gaz from Oz wrote:
Zed wrote:
Exactly why I said it shouldn't matter what religion a player is, if they deserve the award,, they should have it. Only recalled Zidane getting it after I posted. George Weah is now the 25th president of Liberia. No doubt his footballing days are behind him. He and AW go way back.

Yeah race may not be determinative but who you play for bloody is. Henry should have had it as best player in the world at least once.

Looking at the Ballon d'Or. The year Henry was runner up, Nedvěd won. You can't really claim that was unfair. Nedvěd was brilliant for a while.

Sure, it is a subjective decision, and the judges are not immune to the massive amounts of hype that surround these things. The same with other awards. And of course, there may be corruption sometimes. But the kind of 'everything is rigged' thinking that American Gooner is indulging in is a slippery slope. It panders to people with weak intellects and grievances, who don't like reality.

Look where the idea that 'everything is rigged' has got the Americans now with Trump.

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Post #535382  Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 6:42 am 
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Can we win on the road? We'll find out. Is the last win a change in fortunes or a one off?
Right now, 7th or 8th would be a godsend to some fans. How low the mighty have fallen.

Man Utd are quietly doing better in the league. Runner up last year, tied at the top of the table point wise. Yes, its early days, and who knows what will happen. But they are getting back quietly and with a manager many of their fans want out. Legend or not.

Anyway, with a somewhat settled XI, Arteta will have to produce. We are also looking for a recognizable tactic.

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Post #535383  Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 7:06 am 
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old man of hoy wrote:
Gunfire wrote:
Watching this clip I can't help but feel we never got the best of Hleb. He had amazing feet.
At Highbury v United I was sat next to a Man U supporter who was gobsmacked by Hleb's skill. "Where did you find him?" This was praise from an unexpected source.


Hi OMOD, Gunny,

Hleb was one of the best dribblers I've ever seen, at Arsenal or anywhere else. Sadly, he could never produce the numbers of goals and assists that his mesmeric dribbling ability deserved. He seemed to get a mental block when faced with a goalscoring opportunity.


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Post #535384  Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 7:13 am 
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Looking forward to today's game, albeit with a little bit of unease. It should be a real physical test for our new look defence. It will be interesting to see how Ramsdale and Tomiyasu in particular cope with somewhat intimidating tactics and a hostile atmosphere.

If Lokonga plays he will face a robust physical test as well.

It feels very much like the Bolton and Stoke awaydays of years gone by. A proper mental and physical test, on the edge and sometimes beyond the letter of the law.


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Post #535385  Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 7:38 am 
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socrates wrote:
Looking forward to today's game, albeit with a little bit of unease. It should be a real physical test for our new look defence. It will be interesting to see how Ramsdale and Tomiyasu in particular cope with somewhat intimidating tactics and a hostile atmosphere.

If Lokonga plays he will face a robust physical test as well.

It feels very much like the Bolton and Stoke awaydays of years gone by. A proper mental and physical test.

I think it will also be interesting to see how we deal with Burnley’s aerial attacks, assuming that’s what they’ll be doing. My guess is that Gabriel will have the primary responsibility for Burnley’s tall forward, whose name I’ve forgotten.* But when they get corners and free kicks with the opportunity to pump the ball at height into the box, I presume there will be others to deal with as well as Gabriel’s man.

You’ve said yourself socrates that White is not primarily known for his strength in the air, a reputation that was reinforced when I read of his play with Brighton. Indeed, White’s performance at Brentford did nothing to suggest that argument was wrong. Nor the game against Norwich who didn’t seem to attack much in the air. So it should be fascinating to see what happens today.

* Seems his name is Chris Wood.


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Post #535386  Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 9:05 am 
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Should be a win for us. They concede a few goals an I would not be shocked if they go down this year.

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Post #535387  Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 9:10 am 
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socrates wrote:
old man of hoy wrote:
At Highbury v United I was sat next to a Man U supporter who was gobsmacked by Hleb's skill. "Where did you find him?" This was praise from an unexpected source.


Hi OMOD, Gunny,

Hleb was one of the best dribblers I've ever seen, at Arsenal or anywhere else. Sadly, he could never produce the numbers of goals and assists that his mesmeric dribbling ability deserved. He seemed to get a mental block when faced with a goalscoring opportunity.

One of the most frustrating players to watch, along with Gervinho.

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Post #535388  Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 9:36 am 
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Bernard wrote:
old man of hoy wrote:
Song, Bendtner, Baptista, Chamakh and Adebayor were strong guys who might have done a better job for Arsene - especially Ade who ended up with a mixed career, rather than the stellar one his talent promised.

Song was the only midfielder in that lot and he made his debut in 2005. Was Baptista, who arrived in 2006, a midfielder or forward? Difficult to say really. Apart from a League Cup game at Anfield, his most suitable role was arguably the Emirates’ car park attendant.
Baptista was a defensive midfielder who converted to scorer by the time we got him. I think there was a good player in there waiting to blossom, and at the time I seem to recall quite a bit of enthusiasm when The Beast arrived. It just didn't work out for him. Strange to think that in him and Arshavin we had two players who scored four goals at Anfield yet never became Arsenal favourites.

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Post #535389  Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 9:37 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Diaby 2006 also. Certainly not a Barca tika taka type
Yes, he was the one that bad luck took away - a fine player.

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Post #535390  Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 9:41 am 
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socrates wrote:
Looking forward to today's game, albeit with a little bit of unease. It should be a real physical test for our new look defence. It will be interesting to see how Ramsdale and Tomiyasu in particular cope with somewhat intimidating tactics and a hostile atmosphere.

If Lokonga plays he will face a robust physical test as well.

It feels very much like the Bolton and Stoke awaydays of years gone by. A proper mental and physical test, on the edge and sometimes beyond the letter of the law.
Yes, I'd take a draw now. A win will surprise me.

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Post #535391  Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 9:45 am 
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Bernard wrote:
...I think it will also be interesting to see how we deal with Burnley’s aerial attacks, assuming that’s what they’ll be doing. My guess is that Gabriel will have the primary responsibility for Burnley’s tall forward, whose name I’ve forgotten.But when they get corners and free kicks with the opportunity to pump the ball at height into the box, I presume there will be others to deal with as well as Gabriel’s man...
B, it is analysis like this that confirms for me you are a great defensive coach just waiting a chance to shine.

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Post #535392  Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 9:47 am 
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old man of hoy wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
Diaby 2006 also. Certainly not a Barca tika taka type
Yes, he was the one that bad luck took away - a fine player.

His particular bad luck was to meet that oaf Dan Smith.

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Post #535393  Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 9:55 am 
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Gaz from Oz wrote:
Should be a win for us. They concede a few goals an I would not be shocked if they go down this year.
It will be very unusual for us to score freely at Burnley. While we do win up there, in the last nine visits we have
failed to score twice and scored just one on five occasions. Tough territory.

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Post #535394  Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 9:55 am 
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Was trying to find news on Willock, hope he is doing well. Was sad to hear he thought about quitting social media due to abuse. https://www.espn.com/soccer/newcastle-u ... on-twitter

He's a nice lad, wonder who would? Maybe a few bonehead gooners that he left? Or possible a few toon fans that he was signed. Who knows.

Easy to say in relative obscurity but it really should be expected of athletes and entertainers or anyone in the public eye, or even on a relatively small football forum :icon_mrgreen: you will get the bad along with the good of being famous or noteworthy in some form or fashion. Gotta expect it or at least be resilient about it. Not excusing the behavior at all. It's up to twitter or instagram to sort that out. Indvidually, you just have move on. You can only control your own reaction.

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Post #535395  Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 9:58 am 
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long time gooner wrote:
old man of hoy wrote:
Yes, he was the one that bad luck took away - a fine player.

His particular bad luck was to meet that oaf Dan Smith.
Yes, frightening that all players are just one bad tackle away from a ruined career. Diaby was class, no doubt about that. Smith, where is he now?

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Post #535396  Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 11:18 am 
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I was a big fan of Diaby. I really thought he'd be a huge player for us. Unfortunate with the injuries.

I was looking at clips of second incarnation of Ronaldo. I remember the first time I saw him play against us, he scared the sh*t out me. It was obvious from the start he was going to be very special. I was in the pub in LA and all of us gooners looked at each other thinking 'He is going to be a problem'.

I was also at the pub when Fabregas had that blinder in the Charity Shield and loved hearing Man Utd fans gobsmacked. I'll never forget one guy saying in anger/frustration. "Where the f*ck did he come from? Never heard of him. Where f00k does Wenger find them?". Rooney was known as a teen. But Fabregas was relatively unknown. I can't think of any non Arsenal fans and even a few who had any idea about him.

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Post #535397  Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 11:22 am 
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old man of hoy wrote:
Bernard wrote:
...I think it will also be interesting to see how we deal with Burnley’s aerial attacks, assuming that’s what they’ll be doing. My guess is that Gabriel will have the primary responsibility for Burnley’s tall forward, whose name I’ve forgotten.But when they get corners and free kicks with the opportunity to pump the ball at height into the box, I presume there will be others to deal with as well as Gabriel’s man...
B, it is analysis like this that confirms for me you are a great defensive coach just waiting a chance to shine.

Thanks. I felt at the time White may have been a tad fortunate to be out for the Chelsea game where the two central defenders were Holding and Mari. The latter had the misfortune to have Lukaku to mark, perhaps for understandable reasons when you look at Holding’s performance against, was it Liverpool last season, when Warwick Davis could have given the forwards more to think about with crosses in the air.

To be fair I don’t think either Mari and Holding are that bad. But my guess is White and Gabriel will become the recognised first choice pairing and from what I’ve read about White from his time at Brighton and saw of him at Brentford, I expect Gabriel to be marking Chris Wood today.


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Post #535398  Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 11:53 am 
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Interesting article on Mertesacker’s work at the youth academy.

https://www.football.london/arsenal-fc/ ... dium=email


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Post #535399  Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 11:59 am 
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old man of hoy wrote:
long time gooner wrote:
His particular bad luck was to meet that oaf Dan Smith.
Yes, frightening that all players are just one bad tackle away from a ruined career. Diaby was class, no doubt about that. Smith, where is he now?

Apparently Dan Smith set up a spray paining business in the north east. No idea how it’s doing.


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Post #535400  Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 12:29 pm 
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https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/58604851

Sad.

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