When we open the book on great midfielders it has many pages! The reason I love Vieira so much is that he came to us as an unknown and immediately took the team to a higher level. Remarkable really because he was just a young guy, yet his on-field leadership was evident straightaway. His debut, under lights at Highbury, was thrilling - the way he glided past opponents drawing comparison with Rocky at his best - smiles on every Arsenal face. Then he went from strength to strength - needed no settling in period, just a duck to water. Energy and committment even beyond Talbot - and as aggressive as Storey. He could be delicate too - how many times did we see that clever move in the centre circle where he would fool his marker and set up an attack? And a hell of a shot - the one off the bar against United to beat Schmeichel was wonderful.

My 2 pennies as it’s an interesting debate. I think you need to take zidane and platini and put them in a special category as they are number 10s and given absolutely free reign to do what they wanted on a football pitch Otherwise you need to include Dennis as well and it gets a bit messy.

If you are therefore classing cesc as a midfielder therefore then I’m with DHD on this and Cesc has a legitimate claim to be the best creative midfield player I’ve seen too. No midfielder I’ve seen has his weight of pass and vision from anywhere on the pitch, he had eyes in the back of his head and could find passes that simply didn’t exist for other players. 125 career goals from midfield and 214 assists (better than Gerrard and Lampard)

It was one of Arsenes biggest mistakes not resigning him and I think if we had our trophy haul could have looked differently. I watched him play for Chelsea and he looked no different to his time with us playing give and go football and his teammates always looking to him for the key pass.

Honestly I think his contribution to football has been overshadowed because the made the mistake of going to Barca to play second fiddle to xavi and iniesta. If not for that he would be more highly regarded. He may not admit it but when he looks back on his career he will privately acknowledge this.

Oh and of *%^@*** course he’s better than Glenda ! Lord have mercy. Wash your mouth out and get in the bin please. Thanks

Turns out my Bank was the issue. My card was being declined - who knew? I've been away for a while and they must've become wary of unusual spending patterns.

An hour or two trying via the website. 75 minutes on the blower to the Box Office ("you are number 42 in the queue") confirmed what was the problem, then another 55 minutes to the Bank to sort it out. Everyone was v polite to me and it clearly wasn't their fault, but as the hours go by, you do feel like ripping their ears off. Not that I did, of course. Sweetness and light. Oh yes.

However like I’ve said before. If Henry was making a run through and my life depended on a player successfully making that through pass to find him I’m asking Dennis to make that pass not Cesc.

For me, a major contributing factor to any measure of greatness is how often I've watched the player live. This adds much more weight to Cesc, Thierry and Paddy since they all played in the era when I was a 'home and away' obsessive. I saw almost all of the games they played for us.

I can't say that about Chippy Brady since I went to very few away games in those days; having said that, I used to believe he was the best I'd seen until the Wenger boys came along. I saw Platini once or twice but I don't think I ever saw Zidane, so they never really made an impact on me.

The exception to that rule was Maradona whom I saw live just once; that was enough.

You’re presumably a newbie and never saw Brady and Hudson at his best then. People moan about Xhaka’s lack of pace. Fabregas was obviously in a different class to him in everything but pace. Also Hoddle could do everything and more that Fabregas could. An utter genius. For me Tottenham’s most skilful player.

Where I think you’re right is the error Fabregas made in f*cking off to Barcelona where he was outshone by Iniesta and Xavi, neither of who I thought were as good as Matthaus.

Glad you mentioned Vieira’s debut. Sheffield Wednesday wasn’t it? Did you see Brady’s against Birmingham? The two best debuts I’ve seen.

Completely agree. Should have mentioned Maradona myself. The single greatest player I’ve seen.

One thing I think has to be mentioned when comparing players from different eras, as we have done with Brady and Fabregas, is the pitch quality. Players these days basically play on grass billiard tables. Highbury was often like a trench at the Somme when Brady and Hudson played on it. And there were worse than Highbury too.

Also, defenders now get booked for breathing heavily within three feet of an opponent. In the old days a defender could stab an opponent to death without even getting a talking to by the ref.

Playing football in modern times is way easier than it used to be in Brady and Hudson’s era.

Fair enough on the poor quality pitches and the homicidal defenders Bern, but the speed and intensity of the modern game more than balances that out. Cesc never enjoyed anything like the time and space given to Brady and Hudson. Whenever you see those games from the '70s and '80s, there's hardly any closing down and no pressing whatever.

I have no doubt Cesc would've shone back then. I'd be less confident that Brady and Hudson would cope with a Citeh-style press.

This is literally the point I was about to make. Henry and Walcott could run a 100metres in 11 seconds. Not even 2 full seconds slower than linford Christie’s best 100 metres.


Aubameyang was clocked at the first 30 metres or something faster than Usain Bolt did in a major race. Then bellerin recorded himself doing likewise.

Remember Henry’s goal v spurs. Literally ate up the whole Highbury pitch in a matter of seconds.

You are talking about physical specimens recruited from all over the world who are freaks of nature that just happen to be able to also control a ball as well.

Also diet. Chippy was called chippy for a reason and it wasn’t because of his love of broccoli

The speed and intensity Brady and Hudson would have easily adapted to, they were that skilful they could not have shone in the modern game. I would say far better than Fabregas would have done on the pitches back then.

Top Gun mentioned Brady liking chips. I have no doubt the modern dietary regimes at top football clubs would have ensured that wouldn’t have been a problem in the modern game. Hudson was an alcoholic. Perhaps modern dietary regimes would have kept him off it?

I think AW was one of (if not) the first to break the accepted talent development strategy of spotting footballing talent and then getting them fit. Under AW the policy mutated to spotting the athletic talent and then honing their footballing skills. That’s a simplification but you see where I’m going.

Brady was a product of the old school development strategy. I watched him from his first games in the reserves and I sincerely believe he had the talent to survive in any era, but in purely physical terms, I think he, as he was then, would struggle today. All those players would.

This is the nonsense of comparing players of different eras.

Hi DHD. The thing is with modern dietary and fitness regimes, Brady would shine today despite liking chips. Chips wouldn’t have been his main foodstuff now, I’m sure of that. Similar in principle, Hudson was a confirmed alcoholic long before he joined Arsenal. I hope, and expect, his moves towards alcoholism would have been stopped long before he got there, at a modern top club. Even on the pitches back then, they had the ability to show their skill. Stick Fabregas on the 1970s mud heap that Highbury was in the winter and I suspect he’d find it harder to adapt than Brady and Hudson would now.

But I agree, it’s so difficult to compare players from different eras. That’s one of the reasons I hate the expression best player of all time. As well as the obvious difference in playing styles and fitness levels, how can any of us who didn’t see Alex James say how Brady and Fabregas compared to him?

Regarding alcoholic players, everyone know about Greaves, Best, Hudson and MacDonald in the 60s and 70s. More recently there’s been Gascoigne, Adams, Sansom and Merson who were well known. But they were still in the 80s and 90s, up to thirty years ago. Can anyone think of a top modern footballer who is a known alcoholic now? I genuinely think top clubs would sort it out better now than what happened in the past.

A story throwing doubt on the likelihood of Arsenal signing Jesus. Might be clickbait, as may the stories that we’ll sign him. I’ve seen links to so many players that I’ve lost count. My advice is wait until the end of the transfer window before assessing the squad. In my view that’s better than reacting to clickbait, 99% of which I reckon is nonsense.

https://www.football.london/arsenal-fc/ ... dium=email

Years back I met someone who had a stint in the priory rehab centre and whilst he was in he said an Arsenal player was in receiving treatment also for a problem relating to alcohol abuse.

I won’t name the player as it’s a totally unsubstantiated rumour and he could have got the players name wrong or something but the player is the last person you’d expect and his playing time crossed the Highbury emirates cross over period so prime wenger days.

I bet there’s a few but we don’t hear about it. That said I think the days of a player like Greavsie literally turning up to play for Barnet pissed are long gone.

Interesting. I guess you must be right and it does still happen. Though I do reckon it must be dealt with more effectively now. Your anonymous player in the stadium move era would have been around about sixteen years ago.

Just looked up our squad for the 2006/07 season, the first year at the Emirates. The player you mention without naming must presumably be one of them. It was Lehmann, Diaby, Cole, Fabregas, Toure, Senderos, Rosicky, Ljungberg, Reyes, van Persie, Lauren, Hleb, Henry, Flamini, Song, Cygan, Gilberto, Djourou, Poom, Clichy, Almunia, Adebayor, Eboue, Aliadiere, Hoyte, Walcott.

The guess is, which one?

My guess is Rosicky. Or possibly Jens.

Interesting idea. There was a rumour about Rosicky being a crack cocaine addict.

https://www.digitalworldz.co.uk/threads ... ct.199683/

Ryanair--Imagine flying all the way from SA to Britain, and then being told you cannot go further because you can't fill in a form in Afrikaans. What the hell is that? What is wrong with them?

Yes, The Owls at night - we were looking ordinary until that young man came on as a sub and changed it all. No, I didn't see Brady's debut or that much of him live throughout his career. For most of the 70s and 80s my priorities didn't include going to football, so I saw very little of an obviously great Arsenal midfielder. I know it is hard comparing players from different eras but surely Brady would have been a star anytime?

Yeah, of course Brady would. The main reason for the elevation of Fabregas’ status above his seems to be Brady, as with all players, not being fit enough in those days to handle the pressing game often used now.

In my view it is entirely logical to accept Brady would be a damn site fitter with a better diet had he played in the time of Fabregas, with the changes in training regimes that occurred across all clubs, than it is to accept Fabregas shining to the same extent as Brady on the mud heaps that were passed off as pitches in those days.

Let me clarify that I do accept Fabregas would have been a very fine player back then, even with the pitches and leg breakers teams had. But I’m sorry, I just cannot consider Fabregas the equal of Brady.

Mind you, what this debate has done is highlight the big problems in comparing players from different eras.

I love the fact that there are extended highlights of Vieira's debut on YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyRTX60BQJU

Yet more on the Saka rumours.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football ... dium=email

Thanks for posting that. How good to have a commentator who didn't scream and shout.

https://www.fr12.nl/nieuws/arsenal-en-feyenoord-bespreken-samenwerking

Dutch media reporting both clubs aim to form a 'friendly relationship' and work together as much as possible. Music to my ears!

I loved the bit where Des Walker took out Wrighty at knee level and then proceeded to protest that it was a dive.

...and despite that leg-breaker of a challenge, Ian Wright barely went down.

Thanks for this McQ.

Interesting that Vieira took a while to get into the game. He started quite shakily but grew visibly in the second half. He finished as a different player.

I heard that from a few sources.

On Paddy's debut this is worth a read.

http://arseweb.com/96-97/reports/160996.html

We could do with one of those now

Vieira 8.0 Perhaps a bit over the top, but my choice for man of the
match, if only for the joy of watching a midfielder who
can pass and is comfortable on the ball.

Liverpool close to a deal with Darwin Nunez, £68m fee with £17m add ons. Mané surely moves on this summer and Salah could follow him next year.

I wrote a few times about Liverpool’s ageing squad but they are putting in place the younger replacements steadily. Van Dijk is the main guy they struggle without

Good luck Lacazette

I read some comment by a gooner no doubt that 15 of Harry Kane's international goals came from the spot. Not sure if that is considered too many or not and puts the total number in a more accurate context.

Hi Rich. If Arsenal were to sign one of Darwin or Jesus and no other forward, who would you choose? If it’s Jesus you must think we have strengthened our team more than Liverpool. If it’s Darwin you presumably feel they have strengthened their side more than us. I’m not talking of squad strength here, as Jesus is hopefully a bigger upgrade on Lacazette than Darwin is of Mané.

The relevance of this question is of course dependent on Arsenal getting Jesus, which according to the Mirror is now in doubt. The link below is also negative about our hopes of keeping Saka.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football ... dium=email

Hi Bernard, It is a good question. for me if we were only signing one forward this summer I'd take Darwin Nunes over Jesus - even with the risk of not being 'Prem ready' as I think he is more the type of CF we need.

I think Jesus could/would be a good signing but going in to the season with only Jesus, Nketiah (not certain) and Martinelli as viable striker options seems a bit light and a set of strikers who are all quite similar.
For my money, and to really give us a balanced forward line I'd be looking at a taller strong striker (Scamacca, Abraham, Osimhen) to play as the No.9, I'd also have Jesus who can play as the No.9/false 9 in some games but can also play wide right when Saka doesn't play (or Saka plays wide left)......I'm assuming Pépé leaves. I don't know how ready this lad from brazil we're supposedly signing is but it seems more likely he'd go on loan.

If we had a collection of the following players for the front 4 positions we'd look an awful lot stronger in attack next year:
Emile Smith Rowe, Martinelli, Ødegaard, Saka, Nketiah, Jesus, Scammaca - as the cheapest tall striker of the 3 I listed

Back that up with a Tielemans and full back cover and I'd say that is a pretty decent window

Getting whatever signings we are going to make done before the start of the season would be a big plus.

We can’t afford to wait, as we always do, until the season is well underway.

For some reason I can’t see Gabriel Jesus ending up at our place. Feels like there’s too much attention in him

That said if the press reports are true and we’ve offered 190k a week that would be too much for many.

Hi ltg,

Its the same old same old........unfortunately, we are probably not at the top of the queue for most of our main targets, especially without CL again, so we are left to wait and see what's left on the table when the more monied and/or attractive clubs have finished dining.

I used to get excited by transfer rumours in years gone by but now I have learned to just take them with a pinch of salt until more concrete links emerge.

We are a massive club worldwide but we just don't have the clout in the transfer market anymore, infact you might argue that we've never really dined at the top table, even under Wenger it was only his knowledge of the french market and his network of contacts that gave us a bit of an edge in recruiting a few unpolished diamonds and broken players with a point left to prove.

Take the striker situation, a lot of clubs are looking for a no 9 to supply them with the goals they need but there is not an unlimited supply of top or even emerging strikers available and we are some way down the queue for the best ones.

We have to outsmart the market, as Arteta has said numerous times. That means buying young and developing them. It remains to be seen just how smart our scouts and Edu can be in this market. It's tough, hence our move for Vlahovic in Jan because we knew we'd have no chance in the summer.