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Post #530601  Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 9:22 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Lots of links that Arsenal are very interested in Ben White of Brighton. And talk we still want another right sided CB. No idea what this means for Saliba.
Although perhaps Ben White is being targeted as a Holding replacement


Very odd, Rich.

Can’t say I have an opinion on Ben White one way or the other but to splurge £40m on him seems wildly extravagant when other areas of the team seem a more pressing issue.

Not sure why David Ornstein has gone public with it either. He doesn’t usually get fed duff information so Arsenal must be happy for it to be in the public domain.

I would be incredibly unhappy if we jettison Saliba without at least giving him a proper go.


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Post #530602  Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 9:42 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
Like I said 15 yards forward to the fullback. Sideways, backwards, cross field ball 15 yards forward to the fullback...

Never through the middle hence our weird u shape heat maps

His forward passing stats are for the final third. The final third!


Well 4 assists in his last 90 games !!!!!!!!. He’s not some final ball wizard and his passing isn’t progressive. He recycles possession and that’s it.

Everyone knows this


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Post #530603  Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 9:44 pm 
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socrates wrote:
Rich wrote:
Lots of links that Arsenal are very interested in Ben White of Brighton. And talk we still want another right sided CB. No idea what this means for Saliba.
Although perhaps Ben White is being targeted as a Holding replacement

Very odd, Rich.

Can’t say I have an opinion on Ben White one way or the other but to splurge £40m on him seems wildly extravagant when other areas of the team seem a more pressing issue.

Not sure why David Ornstein has gone public with it either. He doesn’t usually get fed duff information so Arsenal must be happy for it to be in the public domain.

I would be incredibly unhappy if we jettison Saliba without at least giving him a proper go.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. I haven’t ever seen Saliba kick a football so I’m unqualified to say whether he’s good, bad or indifferent let alone more extreme terms like brilliant or terrible. But after paying, what was it, £27m for him, it would seem very odd for Arsenal to get rid of him as I’ve no doubt people at the club would have watched him many times before we signed him? Has Arteta simply taken a dislike to him, as I’m suspicious he did with Guendouzi?

Otherwise, perhaps Rich is right and Ben White is being targeted as Holding’s replacement which may mean Saliba still might have a future at Arsenal?


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Post #530604  Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 9:50 pm 
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socrates wrote:
Rich wrote:
Lots of links that Arsenal are very interested in Ben White of Brighton. And talk we still want another right sided CB. No idea what this means for Saliba.
Although perhaps Ben White is being targeted as a Holding replacement


Very odd, Rich.

Can’t say I have an opinion on Ben White one way or the other but to splurge £40m on him seems wildly extravagant when other areas of the team seem a more pressing issue.

Not sure why David Ornstein has gone public with it either. He doesn’t usually get fed duff information so Arsenal must be happy for it to be in the public domain.

I would be incredibly unhappy if we jettison Saliba without at least giving him a proper go.


Most peculiar, he’s also in the England squad right. He’s probably going to have the tournament of his life and his price will rocket.

You would have to assume the club know a centre back is being sold


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Post #530605  Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 9:53 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
socrates wrote:
Very odd, Rich.

Can’t say I have an opinion on Ben White one way or the other but to splurge £40m on him seems wildly extravagant when other areas of the team seem a more pressing issue.

Not sure why David Ornstein has gone public with it either. He doesn’t usually get fed duff information so Arsenal must be happy for it to be in the public domain.

I would be incredibly unhappy if we jettison Saliba without at least giving him a proper go.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. I haven’t ever seen Saliba kick a football so I’m unqualified to say whether he’s good, bad or indifferent let alone more extreme terms like brilliant or terrible. But after paying, what was it, £27m for him, it would seem very odd for Arsenal to get rid of him as I’ve no doubt people at the club would have watched him many times before we signed him? Has Arteta simply taken a dislike to him, as I’m suspicious he did with Guendouzi?

Otherwise, perhaps Rich is right and Ben White is being targeted as Holding’s replacement which may mean Saliba still might have a future at Arsenal?


Hi Bernard,

Holding was actually pretty good last season, not world class good but certainly good enough to be one of 4 or 5 cbs. Arguably our best cb.

If Ben White is a £40m player that makes Holding a £20m+ player at the very least then.


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Post #530606  Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 9:54 pm 
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I don’t think Arteta took a disliking to Guendouzi. I think Guendouzi just showed himself to be a petulant little prick.

This White interest seems odd. But the whole Saliba debacle has been curious if nothing else. If he goes without having kicked a ball fit us then so be it, but it’s been odd if nothing else.

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Post #530607  Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 9:59 pm 
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So Ben white is a right footer as is Holding and Saliba and others lefties so you would have to assume Holding or Saliba are more likely being moved on. Probably saliba as Arteta seemed to take to Holding last year


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Post #530608  Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:15 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Bernard wrote:
His forward passing stats are for the final third. The final third!


Well 4 assists in his last 90 games !!!!!!!!. He’s not some final ball wizard and his passing isn’t progressive. He recycles possession and that’s it.

Everyone knows this

No, you think it or want to believe it. You often seem to focus on assists. But in doing that, you ignore passes including incisive passes leading up to assists. Focusing on assists for goals is such a limited way of looking at it. How about one of Aubameyang’s goals at the Emirates when the creative pass was Xhaka putting Tierney through in a wide position that enabled Tierney to give Aubameyang a simple chance he couldn’t miss? It was Aubameyang’s goal and Tierney’s assist, but the goal was centred round Xhaka’s pass.


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Post #530609  Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:22 pm 
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Darren wrote:
I don’t think Arteta took a disliking to Guendouzi. I think Guendouzi just showed himself to be a petulant little prick.

This White interest seems odd. But the whole Saliba debacle has been curious if nothing else. If he goes without having kicked a ball fit us then so be it, but it’s been odd if nothing else.

I’m not as certain as you on that Darren.


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Post #530610  Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:27 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:

Well 4 assists in his last 90 games !!!!!!!!. He’s not some final ball wizard and his passing isn’t progressive. He recycles possession and that’s it.

Everyone knows this

No, you think it or want to believe it. You often seem to focus on assists. But in doing that, you ignore passes including incisive passes leading up to assists. Focusing on assists for goals is such a limited way of looking at it. How about one of Aubameyang’s goals at the Emirates when the creative pass was Xhaka putting Tierney through in a wide position that enabled Tierney to give Aubameyang a simple chance he couldn’t miss? It was Aubameyang’s goal and Tierney’s assist, but the goal was centred round Xhaka’s pass.


Good players cost lots of money, bad players not a lot of money. Xhaka is being transferred for peanuts. Your unhappy because the things you’ve said about him don’t make sense and you’ve been proven factually wrong now


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Post #530611  Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:29 pm 
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Darren wrote:
I don’t think Arteta took a disliking to Guendouzi. I think Guendouzi just showed himself to be a petulant little prick.

This White interest seems odd. But the whole Saliba debacle has been curious if nothing else. If he goes without having kicked a ball fit us then so be it, but it’s been odd if nothing else.


Spot on Darren the world and it’s mother could see Guendouzi is trouble. Contrast his attitude to someone like Saka or Smith Rowe ? Super professional and they would run into a wall for the club. Did the right thing to move him on.


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Post #530612  Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:11 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Bernard wrote:
No, you think it or want to believe it. You often seem to focus on assists. But in doing that, you ignore passes including incisive passes leading up to assists. Focusing on assists for goals is such a limited way of looking at it. How about one of Aubameyang’s goals at the Emirates when the creative pass was Xhaka putting Tierney through in a wide position that enabled Tierney to give Aubameyang a simple chance he couldn’t miss? It was Aubameyang’s goal and Tierney’s assist, but the goal was centred round Xhaka’s pass.

Good players cost lots of money, bad players not a lot of money. Xhaka is being transferred for peanuts. Your unhappy because the things you’ve said about him don’t make sense and you’ve been proven factually wrong now

It’s already been explained that there are various factors contributing to a player’s transfer fee, as well as quality. One of which is their age, another is their eagerness to move, with another being the state of the market. Xhaka is approaching 29, it’s a depressed market, and allegedly fancies a move. All factors that could negatively effect the fee we’ll get for him. I therefore haven’t been proved factually wrong.


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Post #530613  Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:38 pm 
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Darren wrote:
This White interest seems odd. But the whole Saliba debacle has been curious if nothing else. If he goes without having kicked a ball fit us then so be it, but it’s been odd if nothing else.

Would be disappointing to see Saliba leave, but it does look like Arteta doesn't rate him. If he's successful elsewhere Arteta will have to accept being questioned about it.

All for signing Ben White though. Think he's a terrific young defender and Holding just isn't good enough for where we want to go.


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Post #530614  Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 5:56 am 
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Bernard wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
Good players cost lots of money, bad players not a lot of money. Xhaka is being transferred for peanuts. Your unhappy because the things you’ve said about him don’t make sense and you’ve been proven factually wrong now

It’s already been explained that there are various factors contributing to a player’s transfer fee, as well as quality. One of which is their age, another is their eagerness to move, with another being the state of the market. Xhaka is approaching 29, it’s a depressed market, and allegedly fancies a move. All factors that could negatively effect the fee we’ll get for him. I therefore haven’t been proved factually wrong.


Yes you have.

Plenty of midfielders even worse than Xhaka will be moving for more money this summer. We are getting peanuts because he has a reputation for petulance and making major bloopers that cost his team dearly in football matches. To ignore that shows you are in denial.


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Post #530615  Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 6:22 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Bernard wrote:
It’s already been explained that there are various factors contributing to a player’s transfer fee, as well as quality. One of which is their age, another is their eagerness to move, with another being the state of the market. Xhaka is approaching 29, it’s a depressed market, and allegedly fancies a move. All factors that could negatively effect the fee we’ll get for him. I therefore haven’t been proved factually wrong.

Yes you have.

Plenty of midfielders even worse than Xhaka will be moving for more money this summer. We are getting peanuts because he has a reputation for petulance and making major bloopers that cost his team dearly in football matches. To ignore that shows you are in denial.

That’s interesting. You say “Plenty of midfielders even worse than Xhaka will be moving for more money this summer.” So says the person who considers Xhaka the worst player he’s ever seen play for Arsenal. I would say that strongly suggests there ARE other factors that drive the money players move for.

Okay, it’s a depressed market for players generally, but doesn’t that make you think age is one of them? A club’s performance at negotiating fees could be another. But what I do think is that transfer fee size is alone not a reliable indicator of player quality. Therefore, I have not been proved factually wrong. I think it’s more to do with you not understanding what the words ‘proved’ or ‘factually’ mean.

So who are all these other players you consider even worse than Xhaka who will be moving for more money than him? They’re clearly at other clubs, but who are they?


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Post #530616  Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 6:34 am 
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Bernard wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
Yes you have.

Plenty of midfielders even worse than Xhaka will be moving for more money this summer. We are getting peanuts because he has a reputation for petulance and making major bloopers that cost his team dearly in football matches. To ignore that shows you are in denial.

That’s interesting. You say “Plenty of midfielders even worse than Xhaka will be moving for more money this summer.” So says the person who considers Xhaka the worst player he’s ever seen play for Arsenal. I would say that strongly suggests there ARE other factors that drive the money players move for.

Okay, it’s a depressed market for players generally, but doesn’t that make you think age is one of them? A club’s performance at negotiating fees could be another. But what I do think is that transfer fee size is alone not a reliable indicator of player quality. Therefore, I have not been proved factually wrong. I think it’s more to do with you not understanding what the words ‘proved’ or ‘factually’ mean.

So who are all these other players you consider even worse than Xhaka who will be moving for more money than him? They’re clearly at other clubs, but who are they?

You have been proved wrong

Well take last summer at the height of covid as an example players like Allan and Timothy Castagne moved for over 20 million. We ourselves were being linked with Jorginho for a while at a cost of 35 million. Even players like Rhian Brewster with no experience were sold for 23 million. Tiago went for 27 million and not the peanuts Xhaka fee and the market was worse then


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Post #530617  Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 6:59 am 
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I don’t see the Ben White rumours having any legs at the £40-50m price being touted.

Not unless someone has made a big bid for Saliba or even Holding.


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Post #530618  Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 7:14 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Bernard wrote:
That’s interesting. You say “Plenty of midfielders even worse than Xhaka will be moving for more money this summer.” So says the person who considers Xhaka the worst player he’s ever seen play for Arsenal. I would say that strongly suggests there ARE other factors that drive the money players move for.

Okay, it’s a depressed market for players generally, but doesn’t that make you think age is one of them? A club’s performance at negotiating fees could be another. But what I do think is that transfer fee size is alone not a reliable indicator of player quality. Therefore, I have not been proved factually wrong. I think it’s more to do with you not understanding what the words ‘proved’ or ‘factually’ mean.

So who are all these other players you consider even worse than Xhaka who will be moving for more money than him? They’re clearly at other clubs, but who are they?

You have been proved wrong

Well take last summer at the height of covid as an example players like Allan and Timothy Castagne moved for over 20 million. We ourselves were being linked with Jorginho for a while at a cost of 35 million. Even players like Rhian Brewster with no experience were sold for 23 million. Tiago went for 27 million and not the peanuts Xhaka fee and the market was worse then

No I haven’t. I’m glad you’re presumably not a lawyer because you clearly don’t understand the meaning of ‘proved wrong’.

So are you saying Xhaka is better than both Castagne of Leicester and Jorginho of Chelsea? But hasn’t one of your moans about Xhaka been that he wouldn’t get into the sides of clubs above us? Jorginho is a regular in Chelsea’s side, so it’s strange (and hypocritical) if you’re now saying Xhaka is better than him.

I think what I have got right is that your views on individual players can be shaped by whether you like them or not. I wonder if the main reason the expression ‘red rag to a bull’ hasn’t been replaced by ‘Xhaka to Top Gun’ is that a tiny proportion of the population read the site. You just can’t let it go about him. It’s quite amusing really.


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Post #530619  Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 7:31 am 
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Bernard wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
You have been proved wrong

Well take last summer at the height of covid as an example players like Allan and Timothy Castagne moved for over 20 million. We ourselves were being linked with Jorginho for a while at a cost of 35 million. Even players like Rhian Brewster with no experience were sold for 23 million. Tiago went for 27 million and not the peanuts Xhaka fee and the market was worse then

No I haven’t. I’m glad you’re presumably not a lawyer because you clearly don’t understand the meaning of ‘proved wrong’.

So are you saying Xhaka is better than both Castagne of Leicester and Jorginho of Chelsea? But hasn’t one of your moans about Xhaka been that he wouldn’t get into the sides of clubs above us? Jorginho is a regular in Chelsea’s side, so it’s strange (and hypocritical) if you’re now saying Xhaka is better than him.



Jorginho as an example is better than Xhaka clearly hence the higher fee, castagne not sure, Brewster unproven but all higher fees than a player with hundreds of appearances for arsenal. Why is this ? This is because Xhaka has a reputation for petulance and making major bloopers that cost his team dearly in football matches. To ignore that shows you are in denial and kidding yourself but unable to dig yourself out of the hole you have fell in.


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Post #530620  Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 7:37 am 
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socrates wrote:
I don’t see the Ben White rumours having any legs at the £40-50m price being touted.

Not unless someone has made a big bid for Saliba or even Holding.

Apparently Brighton really want Nketiah apparently. Might make sense if you think about it. Nketiah plus 20 million ish

Loan out saliba for another year as it’s a make or break season for Arteta and he will get few games anyway.

New centre back comes in for 20 million and can play out from the back with his right foot and beat the press. We still have a healthy budget to get other players.

.....also Keep an eye on some of our players being linked with Crystal Palace.


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Post #530621  Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 7:43 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Bernard wrote:
No I haven’t. I’m glad you’re presumably not a lawyer because you clearly don’t understand the meaning of ‘proved wrong’.

So are you saying Xhaka is better than both Castagne of Leicester and Jorginho of Chelsea? But hasn’t one of your moans about Xhaka been that he wouldn’t get into the sides of clubs above us? Jorginho is a regular in Chelsea’s side, so it’s strange (and hypocritical) if you’re now saying Xhaka is better than him.

Jorginho as an example is better than Xhaka clearly hence the higher fee, castagne not sure, Brewster unproven but all higher fees than a player with hundreds of appearances for arsenal. Why is this ? This is because Xhaka has a reputation for petulance and making major bloopers that cost his team dearly in football matches. To ignore that shows you are in denial and kidding yourself but unable to dig yourself out of the hole you have fell in.

I thought I asked who all these players are you consider worse than Xhaka who will move for higher fees. So why did you mention Jorghino, let alone Castagne or Brewster? How about Allan, as it’s down to him now? By the way, do you consider £20m peanuts? Because that’s the fee I’ve seen for Xhaka, a player who’s approaching 29, his contract expires in two years, and appears eager to move on. You obviously buy your peanuts from Harrods.


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Post #530622  Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 7:47 am 
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Bernard wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:

Jorginho as an example is better than Xhaka clearly hence the higher fee, castagne not sure, Brewster unproven but all higher fees than a player with hundreds of appearances for arsenal. Why is this ? This is because Xhaka has a reputation for petulance and making major bloopers that cost his team dearly in football matches. To ignore that shows you are in denial and kidding yourself but unable to dig yourself out of the hole you have fell in.

I thought I asked who all these players are you consider worse than Xhaka who will move for higher fees. So why did you mention Jorghino, let alone Castagne or Brewster? How about Allan, as it’s down to him now? By the way, do you consider £20m peanuts? Because that’s the fee I’ve seen for Xhaka, a player who’s approaching 29 and appears eager to move on. You obviously buy your peanuts from Harrods.

Fee being mooted I’ve read is 15-18 which is peanuts when you consider Tiago went for 27 and was seen as a total bargain.

Why are you mentioning the players quality anyway. Ha lol you have just admitted that quality is a factor in the price proving my point precisely :14laughter: :15laughter: :15laughter:


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Post #530623  Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:14 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
socrates wrote:
I don’t see the Ben White rumours having any legs at the £40-50m price being touted.

Not unless someone has made a big bid for Saliba or even Holding.

Apparently Brighton really want Nketiah apparently. Might make sense if you think about it. Nketiah plus 20 million ish

Loan out saliba for another year as it’s a make or break season for Arteta and he will get few games anyway.

New centre back comes in for 20 million and can play out from the back with his right foot and beat the press. We still have a healthy budget to get other players.

.....also Keep an eye on some of our players being linked with Crystal Palace.


Maybe TG.

I must say that I’ve barely noticed Ben White on the relatively few occasions I’ve seen Brighton play.

Nketiah might make sense as Brighton desperately need someone to finish off some of their excellent approach work.


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Post #530624  Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:14 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Fee being mooted I’ve read is 15-18 which is peanuts when you consider Tiago went for 27 and was seen as a total bargain.

Why are you mentioning the players quality anyway. Ha lol you have just admitted that quality is a factor in the price proving my point precisely :14laughter: :15laughter: :15laughter:

The transfer fee prices quoted in the media will be unreliable. That is sure not arguable. I’ve never said player quality isn’t a relevant factor and it would be a lie if you’re saying I did. What I do think is that there are other factors that influence the price paid and received.

This could include in no particular order the state of the market (depressed or not), players’ ages, length of time left on contracts with existing clubs, the eagerness or willingness for relevant players to leave current clubs and go elsewhere, the skill or competence in negotiating transfer fees for buying and selling clubs, and I doubt that will be an exhaustive list. So it is NOT solely down to player quality, which you appeared to be suggesting. One other relevant factor is that the view of a player’s quality is nearly always, to some extent at least, a subjective judgment by managers as well as fans, rather than an objective one.


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Post #530625  Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:16 am 
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So we have Mari Holding Gabriel Chambers Mavraponos and Saliba currently on our books but we want to go and spend another 40 to 50nmillion on Ben White. Absolutely *%^@*** bonkers when midfield is crying out for some much attention.
Arteta doesn't want to do what he is supposedly good at and actually want to coach these players and give them a chance namely Saliba and Mavraponos .
I'll be so so disappointed if Saliba is jettisoned without even being given a *%^@*** chance. The kid has all the attributes to be a top class defender but no typical Arsenal to spend 28 million then sell him without giving him a chance because Mikel *%^@*** Arteta didnt take a shine to him.
I'm so 'meh' right now with Arteta. Slowly taking a dislike to him
Hate the way he treats some players who clearly are not afforded the same chances others are. Not the manager or that man manager(like Brendan Rodgers)i thought he was going to be.
Let's not even use the obvious one as Guendouzi or the atrocious way he has treated Saliba.
Just look at the way he has treated Reiss Nelson.
You cant tell me the boy doesn't have potential. He could have nurtured him and worked on him to bring that talent out but no he played Willian and Willian over and over and dumped Nelson giving him no chances whatsoever. I'm sure Rodgers would work wonders on Nelson.
Look what he did with Harvey barnes.
If this dumping of Saliba comes to pass then Artera is done for me.


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Post #530626  Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:18 am 
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Bernard wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
Fee being mooted I’ve read is 15-18 which is peanuts when you consider Tiago went for 27 and was seen as a total bargain.

Why are you mentioning the players quality anyway. Ha lol you have just admitted that quality is a factor in the price proving my point precisely :14laughter: :15laughter: :15laughter:

The transfer fee prices quoted in the media will be unreliable. That is sure not arguable. I’ve never said player quality isn’t a relevant factor and it would be a lie if you’re saying I did. What I do think is that there are other factors that influence the price paid and received.

This could include in no particular order the state of the market (depressed or not), players’ ages, length of time left on contracts with existing clubs, the eagerness or willingness for relevant players to leave current clubs and join a new ones, the skill or competence in negotiating transfer fees for buying and selling clubs, and I doubt that will be an exhaustive list. So it is NOT solely down to player quality, which you appeared to be suggesting.


Your post 530621 confirms player quality determines transfer value. No longer any need to continue this


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Post #530627  Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:23 am 
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arse blogger was saying on Twitter something’s up with the saliba transfer and it stinks of Raul Sanelhi.

It was always odd paying such a huge fee for a young player then loaning him back immediately. If he leaves we may never find it the full story about this but my feeling is this is more than about the coach not rating him.


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Post #530628  Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:26 am 
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david.d wrote:
So we have Mari Holding Gabriel Chambers Mavraponos and Saliba currently on our books but we want to go and spend another 40 to 50nmillion on Ben White. Absolutely *%^@*** bonkers when midfield is crying out for some much attention.
Arteta doesn't want to do what he is supposedly good at and actually want to coach these players and give them a chance namely Saliba and Mavraponos .
I'll be so so disappointed if Saliba is jettisoned without even being given a *%^@*** chance. The kid has all the attributes to be a top class defender but no typical Arsenal to spend 28 million then sell him without giving him a chance because Mikel *%^@*** Arteta didnt take a shine to him.
I'm so 'meh' right now with Arteta. Slowly taking a dislike to him
Hate the way he treats some players who clearly are not afforded the same chances others are. Not the manager or that man manager(like Brendan Rodgers)i thought he was going to be.
Let's not even use the obvious one as Guendouzi or the atrocious way he has treated Saliba.
Just look at the way he has treated Reiss Nelson.
You cant tell me the boy doesn't have potential. He could have nurtured him and worked on him to bring that talent out but no he played Willian and Willian over and over and dumped Nelson giving him no chances whatsoever. I'm sure Rodgers would work wonders on Nelson.
Look what he did with Harvey barnes.
If this dumping of Saliba comes to pass then Artera is done for me.


Listen mate the future of the club won’t be in the hands of Reiss Nelson or Guendouzi ? They just aren’t the level we aspire to be at and using it as an axe to bury in the coaches head is absurd.


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Post #530629  Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:37 am 
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Saliba hasn’t played a single minute in the PL so we have no idea how good he is. Something is remiss when it comes to how he’s been handled but there is a very real chance he’s just not what we thought we were buying. I also think we could be offloading another CB and not Saliba.

But I do find this fetishisation of Saliba from some fans, particularly on Twitter as a bit odd seeing as he’s never played a competitive minute for us.

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Post #530630  Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:42 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
arse blogger was saying on Twitter something’s up with the saliba transfer and it stinks of Raul Sanelhi.

It was always odd paying such a huge fee for a young player then loaning him back immediately. If he leaves we may never find it the full story about this but my feeling is this is more than about the coach not rating him.

If you're using Arseblogger as a yardstick, he also said a couple of days ago that Xhaka is easily our second best midfielder - by which he means, I'm sure, our worst player ever.

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Post #530631  Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:43 am 
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mcquilkie wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
arse blogger was saying on Twitter something’s up with the saliba transfer and it stinks of Raul Sanelhi.

It was always odd paying such a huge fee for a young player then loaning him back immediately. If he leaves we may never find it the full story about this but my feeling is this is more than about the coach not rating him.

If you're using Arseblogger as a yardstick, he also said a couple of days ago that Xhaka is easily our second best midfielder - by which he means, I'm sure, our worst player ever.

Obviously I don’t agree with everything every human being says right ? Even a clock is wrong twice a day or whatever


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Post #530632  Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:49 am 
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Darren wrote:

But I do find this fetishisation of Saliba from some fans, particularly on Twitter as a bit odd seeing as he’s never played a competitive minute for us.

Basically we don’t have fans anymore

There is a whole generation of fans now days who attach themselves to a player, almost like a club. They seem to be doing it before a player makes it, as a look at me statement. Look at the way Bernard doubles down on Guendouzi and Xhaka if anyone dares suggest they aren’t up to it. Bizarre


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Post #530633  Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 9:07 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Darren wrote:

But I do find this fetishisation of Saliba from some fans, particularly on Twitter as a bit odd seeing as he’s never played a competitive minute for us.

Basically we don’t have fans anymore

There is a whole generation of fans now days who attach themselves to a player, almost like a club. They seem to be doing it before a player makes it, as a look at me statement. Look at the way Bernard doubles down on Guendouzi and Xhaka if anyone dares suggest they aren’t up to it. Bizarre

I think any use of 'doubling down' and 'Xhaka' in the same sentence points pretty inevitably in the direction of one particular forum member - and it isn't Bernard. Bernard is certainly more of a fan of Guendouzi than most of us, but that happens.

Regarding Saliba, it feels more like an anti-Arteta thing to me (something else to blame him for) than pro-Saliba, but I might be wrong about that.

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Post #530634  Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 9:12 am 
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Saliba was nominated as one of the CBs in the French league team of the season despite only joining in Jan.

He definitely has something about him. Raw yes, but it’s not like we bought a dud. The kid looks destined for the top and if we lose him because we handled his situation poorly then more fool us.


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Post #530635  Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 9:18 am 
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mcquilkie wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
Basically we don’t have fans anymore

There is a whole generation of fans now days who attach themselves to a player, almost like a club. They seem to be doing it before a player makes it, as a look at me statement. Look at the way Bernard doubles down on Guendouzi and Xhaka if anyone dares suggest they aren’t up to it. Bizarre

I think any use of 'doubling down' and 'Xhaka' in the same sentence points pretty inevitably in the direction of one particular forum member - and it isn't Bernard. Bernard is certainly more of a fan of Guendouzi than most of us, but that happens.

Regarding Saliba, it feels more like an anti-Arteta thing to me (something else to blame him for) than pro-Saliba, but I might be wrong about that.


Hi mc,

Guendouzi was captain of the french u21 side, a team packed with outstanding players.

We are practically giving him and Xhaka away. I will see what kind of fees other players go for in the rest of the window before judging our selling prowess but it’s not looking great so far.


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Post #530636  Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 9:27 am 
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Ultimately these players go on the same pitch and are given the same football to kick as the rest of the players. If they don’t take their opportunities it’s their fault. Arsenal down the years have given very good opportunities to young players who seized their chance. All arsenal managers in my time haven't really hesitated to give people a chance in the side and back in the day our fans would never have advocated sacking George Graham for not giving Mark Flatts enough minutes on the pitch.

Surely if Guendouzi is that good he would stand out a mile in the Hertha Berlin side ? But he didn’t.

Trying to desperately search for ulterior reasons such players didn’t make the grade is bizarre and self defeating. Apart from maybe Serge Gnabry we haven’t really dropped the ball with a young player and that was very specific


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Post #530637  Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 9:41 am 
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We all have our differing views on this but Saliba clearly has talent.
To not afford the boy a chance to even prove himself is scandalous.
All down to one man Arteta.
And agreed with Mcq he does seem Anti Saliba rather than pro Saliba.
The boy never stood a chance.
Dreading how he is going to manage Balogun to be honest..


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Post #530638  Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 9:44 am 
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We dont have the resources to be spending huge amounts.
That's why nurturing these youngsters is another way to do it.
Arteta is not the man to do it.


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Post #530639  Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 9:53 am 
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david.d wrote:
We dont have the resources to be spending huge amounts.
That's why nurturing these youngsters is another way to do it.
Arteta is not the man to do it.


Am I missing something ? Willock, Emile Smith Rowe and Saka all products of hale end we’re used frequently last season.

There’s highlighting a difference in opinion and then there’s just highlighting the nonsense that wanders round inside your brain mate :58big-emoticons:


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Post #530640  Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 10:21 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Bernard wrote:
The transfer fee prices quoted in the media will be unreliable. That is sure not arguable. I’ve never said player quality isn’t a relevant factor and it would be a lie if you’re saying I did. What I do think is that there are other factors that influence the price paid and received.

This could include in no particular order the state of the market (depressed or not), players’ ages, length of time left on contracts with existing clubs, the eagerness or willingness for relevant players to leave current clubs and join a new ones, the skill or competence in negotiating transfer fees for buying and selling clubs, and I doubt that will be an exhaustive list. So it is NOT solely down to player quality, which you appeared to be suggesting.

Your post 530621 confirms player quality determines transfer value. No longer any need to continue this

My post 530621 was: “I thought I asked who all these players are you consider worse than Xhaka who will move for higher fees. So why did you mention Jorghino, let alone Castagne or Brewster? How about Allan, as it’s down to him now? By the way, do you consider £20m peanuts? Because that’s the fee I’ve seen for Xhaka, a player who’s approaching 29, his contract expires in two years, and appears eager to move on. You obviously buy your peanuts from Harrods.”

I have never said that transfer fees are unrelated to player quality. It is why, assuming he leaves Tottenham this summer, that Harry Kane will be transferred for more money than someone like Maupay will leave Brighton for, if he goes. What I am saying is that player quality is not the only single thing that influences transfer fee size. Age can. If Lewandowski was to leave Bayern this summer I am sure he would go for less money than Kane will leave Tottenham for. Not because of any vast difference in quality, because as players they’re quite possibly at similar sorts of level. But because Lewandowski is about five years older and is now a veteran, who is probably not only past his best but will be leaving his best further behind in the past as time moves on.

There will be other factors that influence transfer fees as well as quality and age. Among them time left on contracts, the eagerness of players to move, negotiating talent at buying and selling clubs, and judgements that inevitably to an extent will be subjective as to how good or bad a player is. And I don’t doubt there could be other factors too.

So I do agree with you that there is no longer any need to continue this.


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