Fixtures March 31st - Manchester City - Etihad Stadium - 3:30 Pm

Kick-Off

       Injuries                 Steve Gleiber



Get the Latest Post Go to the Bottom of Page It is currently Fri Mar 29, 2024 6:45 am

All times are UTC


  


Reply to topic

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Googlebot, warrior and 133 guests

 
Post #527801  Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 2:21 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:02 pm
Posts: 18363

Ignoring the gross nature of the play for ESL that’s being made what’s the actual reality?

It’s just a new midweek European competition replacing the champions league that may mean you would need to ditch the league cup and possibly the fa cup right ?

Correct me if I’m wrong but that doesn’t seem such a drastic change to me?


 Profile  
 
 
Post #527802  Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 2:47 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 12:53 pm
Posts: 17047

The glamour of a top class European tie will be completely lost. Fixtures we've had in our history against Benfica, PSG, Parma, Real Madrid, Juventus, Barcelona, Bayern, Fiorentina, Athletico Madrid - these were special because our domestic achievements earned us the right to play at this level but also because they were rare events which generated excitement. When we drew Barca or Bayern or Olympiakos years in a row, it's just not the same. It's not them again, and I'm not just saying that as we lost most of those!!

People will get bored of it extremely quickly and there's no real rivalry between the sides that is a fundamental part of domestic football.

Bin it.

_________________
It's a terrible love and I'm walking with spiders.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #527803  Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 2:47 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 12:22 pm
Posts: 20588

old man of hoy wrote:
Bored wrote:
I agree football's integrity has been slipping away for ages now, but this could potentially destroy the whole fabric of English football. I think this is bigger than football and it requires govenment intervention.
If I have read it right the ESL is not looking to destroy any national league - the 12 members have made it clear they want to retain their memberships of said leagues, but also have the right to do their own thing too. There is a lot of hyperbole at the moment - not least from UEFA, whose control over the money in the game is being challenged in a way they can't handle. Resorting to threats is not going to help them. Also, lets be honest, the current English football gravy train doesn't call at too many stops outside the top leagues. If the toilets at Dartford are made of gold I must have missed them...


Hi OMOH,

Totally agree, there is an incredible amount of hypocrisy going on here.

The govt would act to prevent 6 teams legitimately participating in their own midweek superleague instead of the CL whilst allowing foreign owners with questionable human rights and business practices to own our clubs.

Sky, BT and Uefa are not up in arms because they fear for the integrity of the game, they fear that their own gravy train might be about to hit the buffers that's all they fear.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #527804  Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 2:55 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 1:52 pm
Posts: 18758

TOP GUN wrote:
Ignoring the gross nature of the play for ESL that’s being made what’s the actual reality? It’s just a new midweek European competition replacing the champions league that may mean you would need to ditch the league cup and possibly the fa cup right? Correct me if I’m wrong but that doesn’t seem such a drastic change to me?
UEFA could continue with their Champions League or something similar - their choice. It could be an opportunity to go back to the founding principles of the European Cup - only champions competing - which football fans used to enjoy and would bring back that competitions USP. UEFA's idea though is very different - a 36 team Champions League runnng alongside a Europa Cup of interminable length. That is yawn inducing, and validates the ESL founders' view that UEFA is happy to oversee many very ordinary fixtures just so long as the money rolls in.

It would be dreadful to do away with the FA Cup - it is a great English institution and wonderfully egalitarian competition which pre-dates the leagues. It must be protected. In all the noise about the dangers to English football it is worth remembering that the FA Cup was being watered down by the English clubs long before the ESL was thought of. Unbelievably it was weakened when the biggest club in the country refused to take part, and the FA did nothing about it.

_________________
"Young and caught up in life, we seldom watched the skies.”


 Profile  
 
 
Post #527805  Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 2:57 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 12:53 pm
Posts: 17047

socrates wrote:
old man of hoy wrote:
If I have read it right the ESL is not looking to destroy any national league - the 12 members have made it clear they want to retain their memberships of said leagues, but also have the right to do their own thing too. There is a lot of hyperbole at the moment - not least from UEFA, whose control over the money in the game is being challenged in a way they can't handle. Resorting to threats is not going to help them. Also, lets be honest, the current English football gravy train doesn't call at too many stops outside the top leagues. If the toilets at Dartford are made of gold I must have missed them...


Hi OMOH,

Totally agree, there is an incredible amount of hypocrisy going on here.

The govt would act to prevent 6 teams legitimately participating in their own midweek superleague instead of the CL whilst allowing foreign owners with questionable human rights and business practices to own our clubs.

Sky, BT and Uefa are not up in arms because they fear for the integrity of the game, they fear that their own gravy train might be about to hit the buffers that's all they fear.


The Sky hypocrisy question was addressed on the MNF last night.

Who here believes that the subscription model has improved football?

I thought they had some very strong arguments in favour of Sky's overall contribution (stadiums, lack of hooliganism; quality of the Premier League and Champions League, families going to the games).

The Champions League and Premier League have been fantastic over the years.

The problems started when they allowed in the venture capitalists. No one said a word and this is the end result.

_________________
It's a terrible love and I'm walking with spiders.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #527806  Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 3:00 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 7:45 am
Posts: 25814

DHD wrote:
https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/european-soccer-embraced-big-money-040017565.html

Persevere with this if you have the time. It's a Bloomberg piece with a slightly wider perspective that some of our nationals.

With just a 77m euro debt, we're one of the better-off clubs. Spurs owe 685 billion euro! This makes the point that the top 20 clubs have suffered a 2 billion euro hit due to the pandemic and clearly see the Super League as an instant fix. Having said that, something like this has been bubbling away for some time by the sound of it.

685 billion? Is that figure right?

_________________
I believe in our team, I believe in our quality and I am convinced that I am right. (Arsene Wenger Dec 08)


 Profile  
 
 
Post #527807  Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 3:01 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 12:53 pm
Posts: 17047

I mean FFS, I know Newcastle fans here (not many obviously) absolutely gutted when the Saudi's weren't allowed in.

_________________
It's a terrible love and I'm walking with spiders.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #527808  Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 3:02 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Mar 19, 2013 4:19 pm
Posts: 1954

socrates wrote:
old man of hoy wrote:
If I have read it right the ESL is not looking to destroy any national league - the 12 members have made it clear they want to retain their memberships of said leagues, but also have the right to do their own thing too. There is a lot of hyperbole at the moment - not least from UEFA, whose control over the money in the game is being challenged in a way they can't handle. Resorting to threats is not going to help them. Also, lets be honest, the current English football gravy train doesn't call at too many stops outside the top leagues. If the toilets at Dartford are made of gold I must have missed them...


Hi OMOH,

Totally agree, there is an incredible amount of hypocrisy going on here.

The govt would act to prevent 6 teams legitimately participating in their own midweek superleague instead of the CL whilst allowing foreign owners with questionable human rights and business practices to own our clubs.

Sky, BT and Uefa are not up in arms because they fear for the integrity of the game, they fear that their own gravy train might be about to hit the buffers that's all they fear.


Tell me when you have 14 PL clubs and many others, people in the game and supporters up in arms about 6 teams starting their own ESL. How can they play in the PL? The animosity for each match will be off the chart. The current system allows teams hope, the ESL one doesn't.

This should NEVER get off the ground.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #527809  Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 3:04 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 12:53 pm
Posts: 17047

old man of hoy wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
Ignoring the gross nature of the play for ESL that’s being made what’s the actual reality? It’s just a new midweek European competition replacing the champions league that may mean you would need to ditch the league cup and possibly the fa cup right? Correct me if I’m wrong but that doesn’t seem such a drastic change to me?
UEFA could continue with their Champions League or something similar - their choice. It could be an opportunity to go back to the founding principles of the European Cup - only champions competing - which football fans used to enjoy and would bring back that competitions USP. UEFA's idea though is very different - a 36 team Champions League runnng alongside a Europa Cup of interminable length. That is yawn inducing, and validates the ESL founders' view that UEFA is happy to oversee many very ordinary fixtures just so long as the money rolls in.

It would be dreadful to do away with the FA Cup - it is a great English institution and wonderfully egalitarian competition which pre-dates the leagues. It must be protected. In all the noise about the dangers to English football it is worth remembering that the FA Cup was being watered down by the English clubs long before the ESL was thought of. Unbelievably it was weakened when the biggest club in the country refused to take part, and the FA did nothing about it.

Can't see the FA Cup being attractive at all if the ESL comes in to the top 6.

_________________
It's a terrible love and I'm walking with spiders.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #527810  Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 3:06 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 12:53 pm
Posts: 17047

long time gooner wrote:
DHD wrote:
https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/european-soccer-embraced-big-money-040017565.html

Persevere with this if you have the time. It's a Bloomberg piece with a slightly wider perspective that some of our nationals.

With just a 77m euro debt, we're one of the better-off clubs. Spurs owe 685 billion euro! This makes the point that the top 20 clubs have suffered a 2 billion euro hit due to the pandemic and clearly see the Super League as an instant fix. Having said that, something like this has been bubbling away for some time by the sound of it.

685 billion? Is that figure right?

Must include the stadium.

_________________
It's a terrible love and I'm walking with spiders.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #527811  Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 3:08 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:02 pm
Posts: 18363

socrates wrote:
old man of hoy wrote:
If I have read it right the ESL is not looking to destroy any national league - the 12 members have made it clear they want to retain their memberships of said leagues, but also have the right to do their own thing too. There is a lot of hyperbole at the moment - not least from UEFA, whose control over the money in the game is being challenged in a way they can't handle. Resorting to threats is not going to help them. Also, lets be honest, the current English football gravy train doesn't call at too many stops outside the top leagues. If the toilets at Dartford are made of gold I must have missed them...


Hi OMOH,

Totally agree, there is an incredible amount of hypocrisy going on here.

The govt would act to prevent 6 teams legitimately participating in their own midweek superleague instead of the CL whilst allowing foreign owners with questionable human rights and business practices to own our clubs.

Sky, BT and Uefa are not up in arms because they fear for the integrity of the game, they fear that their own gravy train might be about to hit the buffers that's all they fear.


100 percent spot on

Sky are aware they have already agreed the rights will be sold to DAZN on this. Don’t expect their vitriol over this to ease up.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #527812  Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 3:16 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 12:22 pm
Posts: 20588

Northbank Memories wrote:
socrates wrote:

Hi OMOH,

Totally agree, there is an incredible amount of hypocrisy going on here.

The govt would act to prevent 6 teams legitimately participating in their own midweek superleague instead of the CL whilst allowing foreign owners with questionable human rights and business practices to own our clubs.

Sky, BT and Uefa are not up in arms because they fear for the integrity of the game, they fear that their own gravy train might be about to hit the buffers that's all they fear.


Tell me when you have 14 PL clubs and many others, people in the game and supporters up in arms about 6 teams starting their own ESL. How can they play in the PL? The animosity for each match will be off the chart. The current system allows teams hope, the ESL one doesn't.

This should NEVER get off the ground.


Hi H,

Hope you are keeping well.

I think the animosity is already there now, the damage has been done. A relationship between the big 6 and the rest, which was often fragile anyway, has been well and truly broken.

I don't see how there is any way back barring govt intervention which in itself would cause all sorts of legal issues. What law is there to prevent clubs forming a breakaway league? Isn't that exactly what Sky and the PL did in 92 or whenever it was.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #527813  Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 3:17 pm 
Online
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2008 5:38 pm
Posts: 6432
Location: ɹǝpu∩uʍop

bromley gooner wrote:
warrior wrote:
No takers on this one ?

Could be Thomas Henry Jobson.


A reply from her:

Thank you so much for your information on my dad Tom Jobson
It was so nice to hear all about him. Some things I did know but not as much as all of you
found out. The only thing that was wrong was his name. His full name is
Thomas Henry Albert Jobson. It wasn’t Anthony .
I guess my dad must have been a good footballer to be in such good teams as Arsenal, Ipswich and Leyton I do remember going to Woodford fc to watch a game there I think he was a manager there or coach I forget but I remember him saying that he built the stand there.

When they opened the stand they had invited a lot of stars there I took a video of the stars playing Tommy Steele was there and I think Jeremy Irons were there I can’t think of anyone else off hand , but anyway thank you so much
Margaret Jobson Worlock


 Profile  
 
 
Post #527814  Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 3:18 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 12:53 pm
Posts: 17047

warrior wrote:
bromley gooner wrote:
Could be Thomas Henry Jobson.


A reply from her:

Thank you so much for your information on my dad Tom Jobson
It was so nice to hear all about him. Some things I did know but not as much as all of you
found out. The only thing that was wrong was his name. His full name is
Thomas Henry Albert Jobson. It wasn't Anthony .
I guess my dad must have been a good footballer to be in such good teams as Arsenal, Ipswich and Leyton I do remember going to Woodford fc to watch a game there I think he was a manager there or coach I forget but I remember him saying that he built the stand there.

When they opened the stand they had invited a lot of stars there I took a video of the stars playing Tommy Steele was there and I think Jeremy Irons were there I can’t think of anyone else off hand , but anyway thank you so much
Margaret Jobson Worlock

Nice one Rog.

_________________
It's a terrible love and I'm walking with spiders.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #527815  Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 3:19 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 2:02 pm
Posts: 8163

long time gooner wrote:
DHD wrote:
https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/european-soccer-embraced-big-money-040017565.html

Persevere with this if you have the time. It's a Bloomberg piece with a slightly wider perspective that some of our nationals.

With just a 77m euro debt, we're one of the better-off clubs. Spurs owe 685 billion euro! This makes the point that the top 20 clubs have suffered a 2 billion euro hit due to the pandemic and clearly see the Super League as an instant fix. Having said that, something like this has been bubbling away for some time by the sound of it.

685 billion? Is that figure right?


Good to see you're paying attention LTG - should be 685 million euro debt. Sorry.

It's the only league I'm happy for them to top.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #527816  Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 3:20 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 12:53 pm
Posts: 17047

socrates wrote:
Northbank Memories wrote:

Tell me when you have 14 PL clubs and many others, people in the game and supporters up in arms about 6 teams starting their own ESL. How can they play in the PL? The animosity for each match will be off the chart. The current system allows teams hope, the ESL one doesn't.

This should NEVER get off the ground.


Hi H,

Hope you are keeping well.

I think the animosity is already there now, the damage has been done. A relationship between the big 6 and the rest, which was often fragile anyway, has been well and truly broken.

I don't see how there is any way back barring govt intervention which in itself would cause all sorts of legal issues. What law is there to prevent clubs forming a breakaway league? Isn't that exactly what Sky and the PL did in 92 or whenever it was.

This is a completely different kettle of fish from the Sky/PL deal back in the day.

_________________
It's a terrible love and I'm walking with spiders.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #527817  Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 3:32 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 4:33 pm
Posts: 7011
Location: SE9

Niall wrote:
warrior wrote:

A reply from her:

Thank you so much for your information on my dad Tom Jobson
It was so nice to hear all about him. Some things I did know but not as much as all of you
found out. The only thing that was wrong was his name. His full name is
Thomas Henry Albert Jobson. It wasn't Anthony .
I guess my dad must have been a good footballer to be in such good teams as Arsenal, Ipswich and Leyton I do remember going to Woodford fc to watch a game there I think he was a manager there or coach I forget but I remember him saying that he built the stand there.

When they opened the stand they had invited a lot of stars there I took a video of the stars playing Tommy Steele was there and I think Jeremy Irons were there I can’t think of anyone else off hand , but anyway thank you so much
Margaret Jobson Worlock

Nice one Rog.

Seconded. Football really was the people's game back then. Things don't always change for the better.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #527818  Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 3:34 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 7:45 am
Posts: 25814

Niall wrote:
long time gooner wrote:
685 billion? Is that figure right?

Must include the stadium.

I reckon that you could get quite a few stadia for 685 billion. :12hello-bye:

_________________
I believe in our team, I believe in our quality and I am convinced that I am right. (Arsene Wenger Dec 08)


 Profile  
 
 
Post #527819  Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 3:40 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 1:52 pm
Posts: 18758

Northbank Memories wrote:
socrates wrote:

Hi OMOH,

Totally agree, there is an incredible amount of hypocrisy going on here.

The govt would act to prevent 6 teams legitimately participating in their own midweek superleague instead of the CL whilst allowing foreign owners with questionable human rights and business practices to own our clubs.

Sky, BT and Uefa are not up in arms because they fear for the integrity of the game, they fear that their own gravy train might be about to hit the buffers that's all they fear.


Tell me when you have 14 PL clubs and many others, people in the game and supporters up in arms about 6 teams starting their own ESL. How can they play in the PL? The animosity for each match will be off the chart. The current system allows teams hope, the ESL one doesn't.

This should NEVER get off the ground.
Maybe this ESL development has rocked football for one overriding reason - it blatantly confirms, with no pretence, that there is an elite league within the Premiership, not just in terms of affording the best players and winning trophies but also more importantly in attracting paying viewers. We all know this is the reality, and as sweet as it was when Leicester broke the cartel, we also knew that was a rare thing. All the other clubs know this too, and while they may be put out right now, when the inevitable compromise is made they will quite readily resume 'friendly' relations with the six. The gravy train will continue to run - the first class carriages will just be bigger. It is extremely hard to warm to any of the owners of the six, but you can't say they are trying to dupe anybody. They know they have the power and are being straightforward in using it.

If, and it is very unlikely, the six are thrown out of the Premiership, then the other clubs will have a beter chance of winning the competition, albeit with less money in their pockets.

_________________
"Young and caught up in life, we seldom watched the skies.”


 Profile  
 
 
Post #527820  Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 3:48 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 1:52 pm
Posts: 18758

socrates wrote:
...I don't see how there is any way back barring govt intervention which in itself would cause all sorts of legal issues. What law is there to prevent clubs forming a breakaway league? Isn't that exactly what Sky and the PL did in 92 or whenever it was.
Yes it was, and shame on this government, and its supine Opposition, for threatening to legislate in the matter. This past year has been astonishing for the way in which a Conservative government has nationalised a good deal of life, but at least there was an important reason for doing so. How in all honesty can it be right to extend their power into the running of football clubs?

_________________
"Young and caught up in life, we seldom watched the skies.”


 Profile  
 
 
Post #527821  Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 3:53 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 1:52 pm
Posts: 18758

Niall wrote:
Can't see the FA Cup being attractive at all if the ESL comes in to the top 6.
I don't know. It still has that something about it. Well certainly for me. A look at the faces of the winners of this years final may also show that the players still value it.

_________________
"Young and caught up in life, we seldom watched the skies.”


 Profile  
 
 
Post #527822  Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 3:59 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 2:46 pm
Posts: 3034

Imagine if we were kicked out of the Europa League as punishment...


 Profile  
 
 
Post #527823  Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:00 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:51 pm
Posts: 3569

TOP GUN wrote:
Zed wrote:
And more....sorry to be such a bore, but....

JPMorgan has confirmed they underwrite the project.

Each founding member would be provided at the start with ~$400 million, which is more than four times what the winner of the Champions League took home in 2020.

By forming their own competition, they believe they can better leverage their brands without smaller, less attractive clubs diluting their value.


For Arsenal financially it’s a no brainer! Covers the loan, gives a budget towards the rebuild and neglect Kroenkes ownership has brought the club plus it removes the aggro of having to qualify anymore which we are too crap to achieve anyway.

Makes complete sense! Bring it on.

Of course. Sheik Mansour needs $400M like I need a new bunny tail. None of these 12 owners needs $400M start up.

_________________
Be careful who you call your friends. I'd rather have four quarters than one hundred pennies.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #527824  Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:02 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:51 pm
Posts: 3569

Gaz from Oz wrote:
danny wrote:
Long time reader of the forum but don't post these days as the club seems to be on time loop and it's all been said before. However, if Arsenal do go ahead with the European Super League then I will cut all ties as what Arsenal Football Club have turned into is unrecognisable from what I fell in love with.

Would be just if all 6 of these teams were relegated.

Mate you can still come on here because many other topics are discussed which probably points to how football is losing its flavour.

Good to see Danny here again. Hope he posts more.

_________________
Be careful who you call your friends. I'd rather have four quarters than one hundred pennies.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #527825  Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:06 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:51 pm
Posts: 3569

AmericanGooner wrote:
Mourinho will likely never get another top job at a club again. Top being a top 10 or less global club. Juve, PSG, Barca, RM, City, Liverpool, Man Utd, Bayern Munich.

He'll be offered the next tier down. Tottenham was already the next tier down. My guess is the best he'll be able to do is Dortmund, Atletico, Sevilla, Valencia, either Rome clubs...maybe....maybe Milan. Celtic or Rangers, Ajax, Feyenoord, any french club other than PSG, such as Monaco, Marseille, or Lyon.

I have a feeling he'll end up as national team manager for Portugal or 2nd tier Euro power or a country like Japan, South Korea, China, a decent South American team that isn't Brazil. Maybe...maybe Argentina if they are desperate enough.

I would have thought Wenger would have gotten another managerial job by now. My guess and its only a guess he over estimated himself.

Oh I bet a few MLS sides would find him adequate.
:icon_mrgreen:

_________________
Be careful who you call your friends. I'd rather have four quarters than one hundred pennies.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #527826  Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:06 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:30 pm
Posts: 8103

Niall wrote:
socrates wrote:

Hi OMOH,

Totally agree, there is an incredible amount of hypocrisy going on here.

The govt would act to prevent 6 teams legitimately participating in their own midweek superleague instead of the CL whilst allowing foreign owners with questionable human rights and business practices to own our clubs.

Sky, BT and Uefa are not up in arms because they fear for the integrity of the game, they fear that their own gravy train might be about to hit the buffers that's all they fear.


The Sky hypocrisy question was addressed on the MNF last night.

Who here believes that the subscription model has improved football?

I thought they had some very strong arguments in favour of Sky's overall contribution (stadiums, lack of hooliganism; quality of the Premier League and Champions League, families going to the games).

The Champions League and Premier League have been fantastic over the years.

The problems started when they allowed in the venture capitalists. No one said a word and this is the end result.

I was watching that and Sky were taking credit for all sorts. For a start they didn't sort out the hooligan problem. They took football from terrestrial TV and put it behind a pay wall. They undoubtedly raised the bar in terms of the broadcasting. Full credit to them for that.

As to raising the quality of football, English teams won 7 European Cups in the 15 years before the PL was formed. In almost 30 years since, they have won 5.

And as to their claim to being right behind the fans.....that's utterly laughable. Arsenal v Liverpool on Christmas Eve.

Having said all that, the new set-up looks like it will be worse.

_________________
"I just kept going pretty lively. Them killers wasn't too healthy company."


 Profile  
 
 
Post #527827  Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:07 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 2:46 pm
Posts: 3034

old man of hoy wrote:
How in all honesty can it be right to extend their power into the running of football clubs?


Couldn't you argue that as football clubs have such an intrinsic value to the local community a law mandating some community/fan involvement on their boards would be beneficial?


 Profile  
 
 
Post #527828  Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:11 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:30 pm
Posts: 8103

Zed wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:

For Arsenal financially it’s a no brainer! Covers the loan, gives a budget towards the rebuild and neglect Kroenkes ownership has brought the club plus it removes the aggro of having to qualify anymore which we are too crap to achieve anyway.

Makes complete sense! Bring it on.

Of course. Sheik Mansour needs $400M like I need a new bunny tail. None of these 12 owners needs $400M start up.

Real Madrid and Barcelona definitely need the money.

_________________
"I just kept going pretty lively. Them killers wasn't too healthy company."


 Profile  
 
 
Post #527829  Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:12 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 2:46 pm
Posts: 3034

dec wrote:
I was watching that and Sky were taking credit for all sorts. For a start they didn't sort out the hooligan problem. They took football from terrestrial TV and put it behind a pay wall. They undoubtedly raised the bar in terms of the broadcasting. Full credit to them for that.

As to raising the quality of football, English teams won 7 European Cups in the 15 years before the PL was formed. In almost 30 years since, they have won 5.

And as to their claim to being right behind the fans.....that's utterly laughable. Arsenal v Liverpool on Christmas Eve.

Having said all that, the new set-up looks like it will be worse.


Agree with that


 Profile  
 
 
Post #527830  Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:12 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:02 pm
Posts: 18363

There’s no model thats perfect that works entirely on fan ownership, remember even in Germany you have Red Bull Leipzig :laughing7:

Where morally wrong owners exist they will find a way around this stuff.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #527831  Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:13 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:51 pm
Posts: 3569

socrates wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:

Absolutely, it’s not a tactic to renegotiate the champions league contract as that means nothing to Arsenal. This will run and run, I can’t see how they can ban the respective clubs until the new season. The key is how premier league and la Liga deal with it and if they allow the clubs to participate in the respective leagues


Hi TG,

They can't kick the 12 clubs out of their respective leagues because they are the biggest attractions for worldwide tv audiences. If they disappear then the potential income streams from tv deals and advertising are massively diminished. It would be like cutting off their nose to spite their face. The clubs know this hence they are relaxed about the threats being made.

Players will not be banned from international games either for the same reasons, they are the ones who attract the huge audiences and the big money tv and advertising deals.

Which takes it back to why this ESL was formed. Eliminating players, clubs from PL, CL, EL won't impact the big money involved in the 12 breakaway clubs.

_________________
Be careful who you call your friends. I'd rather have four quarters than one hundred pennies.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #527832  Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:17 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:02 pm
Posts: 18363

Also remember Alan sugars comments on the bidding process when sky won the premiership TV contract way back in the day.

He himself was feeding details of the terrestrial TV companies offers to Sky directly so they could be gazumped by Murdoch.

There’s little sympathy and sentiment here, the whole business is dirty and dominated by one thing and one thing only and that’s who can write the biggest cheque in the world


 Profile  
 
 
Post #527833  Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:26 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:30 pm
Posts: 8103

TOP GUN wrote:
There’s no model thats perfect that works entirely on fan ownership, remember even in Germany you have Red Bull Leipzig :laughing7:

Where morally wrong owners exist they will find a way around this stuff.

Fans involvement is no guarantee that a club will be well run. As an example, Cork City FC are the biggest supported club in Ireland. They went off a financial cliff about 10 years ago. The club was then taken over by a group of fans. It went well for a while with promotion back to the PL and winning the league in 2017. They were relegated last season and are on the brink financially once more.

_________________
"I just kept going pretty lively. Them killers wasn't too healthy company."


 Profile  
 
 
Post #527834  Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:34 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:51 pm
Posts: 3569

TOP GUN wrote:
Bored wrote:
The fact that Arsenal would be one of the biggest beneficiaries of the Super League is hardly a consolation if the sporting value and culture is massively devalued.


So Oligarchs are allowed to pump as much money into their club playthings as they want without ANY resistance from the footballing world but if Arsenal want to strike a perfectly legal agreement to participate in a competition to earn them extra cash they can't? After years in the footballing wilderness

More like Stan and Josh K earn extra cash. No guarantee that any monies will be funneled into signing any high calibre players to Arsenal just cause it's joined an ESL. No relegation no promotion. Just recycled games ad nauseum within the 20 member sides.

_________________
Be careful who you call your friends. I'd rather have four quarters than one hundred pennies.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #527835  Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:05 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:02 pm
Posts: 18363

Zed wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:

So Oligarchs are allowed to pump as much money into their club playthings as they want without ANY resistance from the footballing world but if Arsenal want to strike a perfectly legal agreement to participate in a competition to earn them extra cash they can't? After years in the footballing wilderness

More like Stan and Josh K earn extra cash. No guarantee that any monies will be funneled into signing any high calibre players to Arsenal just cause it's joined an ESL. No relegation no promotion. Just recycled games ad nauseum within the 20 member sides.


Of course it would mean expanded budget. The kroenkes no matter how bad they are aren’t stealing our cash for themselves they just aren’t investing their own.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #527836  Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:46 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 2:02 pm
Posts: 8163

I find myself a tad conflicted in all this.

I don’t like the idea of a closed shop league and I don’t welcome the loss of the FA Cup, which I have always loved. If, as of right, we’re in a perpetual elite competition which is denied to the rest of the PL, it will destroy the PL as a competition and drastically reduce its broadcast value to the other 14; this would be an entirely undeserved double whammy to them all, though as Old Man has observed, where the power now resides has been well and truly established.

On the other hand, if there is to be a super league, regardless of whether we deserve it at the moment, I want us to be in it. Top table please. I also quite fancy the idea of having a massive influx of funds. Shallow or what?

I suppose the kicker for me is that right or wrong, we are now all-in. It’s a shit-or-bust position. I do NOT want us to re-assess, cave in or in anyway back down.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #527837  Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 6:07 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 2:02 pm
Posts: 8163

....... and as I write, looks like Citeh and Chavs are recanting.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #527838  Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 6:15 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:02 pm
Posts: 18363

DHD wrote:
....... and as I write, looks like Citeh and Chavs are recanting.

They all will now one has buckled.

The interesting part will be when we and the other American owned clubs throw in the towel


 Profile  
 
 
Post #527839  Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 6:29 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 12:22 pm
Posts: 20588

That didn't last long did it.

Nobody moan, though, when we have no money to spend in the summer and are still churning out the same old *%^@ in midtable next season, without even any european football. :laughing7:

City and Chelsea seen as the saviours of english football when infact their lavish spending and inability of other teams to keep up caused inflationary pressures in football in the first place.

At least that paragon of virtue Uefa will be still there.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #527840  Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 6:30 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2008 6:57 pm
Posts: 26425

So they start dropping out. Come on Arsenal don’t be the last one to drop.


 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
     [ 570734 posts ] 
Go to page Previous  1 ... 13193, 13194, 13195, 13196, 13197, 13198, 13199 ... 14269  Next

All times are UTC

Gooners Online - Click to see what Everyones Doing

Colour Key:  Visited Profile    Members Profile      Admin

Get Latest Post

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Googlebot, warrior and 133 guests


Search for:

Go to Top

Powered by php BB © 1993 - 2018