Stan Kroenke of Arsenal was eager for the Super League to go through. He was Perez's best 'mate' in this. Kroenke sees Super League as the way to make Arsenal "the biggest team in the world"


No.....the way to make Arsenal the biggest team in the world is to put your hand in your *%^@*** pocket

Bit of a depressing day on the football front. First we blow a really good chance to claw our way back towards the european qualification places, and then this European Super League proposal. My initial reaction to the latter is that I want no part of it and I would consider giving up my long held season ticket. I dont mean to be xenophobic but I find it annoying that its being pushed by these foreign owners (Man U, Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool) who have invested in English football clubs first and foremost to make money and who dont seem to care about the game or the fans itself.

It’s a long time since Arsenal considered us as fans. We are customers.

It is disgusting for fans. For Stan, no. The less he has to do financially in support for the club, he's for it.

So many would be cut out of the big portion of the pie, let alone not be a part of it.

An easy way out to minimal participation, financially. Pocket more money, without effort.

Apparently Tottenham are the sixth English team signing up for it, along with Manchester City and United, Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool. Don’t Tottenham have English owners?

https://www.football.london/premier-lea ... 3ae133acee

Oh I’m not shocked at all the bloke wants it. Or the glazers for that matter

In the most recent glory era/years we had dynamic players in the middle whose first mind was to look for a forward player: Fabregas, Vieira, Bergkamp when he played farther in the middle. We don't have such players. Okay, they are one off players but we don't have that type of player. Ødegaard could be one of those types. Its certainly not Xhaka and Elneny. Party's role isn't that but he's capable of it sometimes. Smith Rowe, Saka have that in their locker. But its Xhaka who controls the game when he's starting. The players we have don't believe they are skillful enough, or canny enough to do the feint, etc because they are more scared of being the one guilty of losing the ball in such a position and giving up a goal. We should have brought Fabregas back home from Monaco and fill in the position till someone else can be bought. There, I said it.

The breakaway 12 clubs makes no sense. Presumably they’ll be cut off from the FIFA/UEFA/FA environments. If so then where will they get their players from? Any player signing for them would have no way back. I just can’t get my head around it at all.

It's Joe Lewis. He's one of the richest British football club owners in the country. Worth close to £4B.

Like bromley I doubt it will happen. I wonder if it’s a side threat, or negotiating position, for something else they want. Also, why are Bayern and PSG not getting involved?

Exactly. That was my point Zed. Lewis is British. Indeed, he’s from London like the team he supports and owns. I was uncomfortable with the idea we should be blaming foreigners, if that’s what Bored was implying. If he wasn’t, then I immediately apologise to him. But it was the impression his post gave me. It was:

“I dont mean to be xenophobic but I find it annoying that its being pushed by these foreign owners (Man U, Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool) who have invested in English football clubs first and foremost to make money and who dont seem to care about the game or the fans itself.”

I suppose at the heart of it you have a bunch of clubs sticking their fingers up at everyone else so they are assuming the rest of the footballing world would adjust their environments to accommodate this new super league structure. It’s that and everything else isn’t their concern.

It’s pretty crazy and gross especially the part about issuing a letter of intent which is very salesy.

I would have thought due to Bayern’s unique ownership they are less likely to be championing something radical and individual like this as they are proportionally owned by their own trading company like a privately owned organisation Rather than having a toupee wearing noncey owner from America who wants to run the club like his toy. Bayern are a real sporting institution.

I think so.
My main objection is its a crap idea that is driven primarily by profit rather than sporting merit and could end up damaging the fabric of English football. I think what leaves a bad taste in the mouth is the admitedly naive idea that owners of football clubs are also custodians, so when a cabal of largely foreign owners seem to be acting in a way which threatens to destroy English football culture which has developed over 100+ years, I cant help but wonder whether growing up in another country makes them more detatched from the role and importance that football has played in England. Its probably a correlation rather than a causal relationship but it doesnt look good.

They will throw big money at players wages but where will the money come from? TV money I assume. The chances of me paying any extra money to watch us is zero. I don’t see why UEFA could not ask nations to ban clubs from their competition (EPL) if they sign up. It is just greedy people trying to make even more money out of the golden goose. We need to be really careful here as a club. They probably are trying to scam some other deal by doing this but frankly the club is a disgrace for being involved.

Hello Bernard. No i'm not blaming foreigners i'm blaming the mindset of owners of any nationality who try to maximise their profits without really caring about the damage it will have on the fabric of football in this or in any other country. The fact that the English clubs supporting these proposals are largely foreign owned is an interesting fact, but its probably irrelevant. I cant believe that this scheme will become reality as it seems too radical and its just a way to put pressure on UEFA.

Not sure why everyone is getting so upset. Football sold out to the moneymen a long time ago when Sky entered the fray and this is just the next logical step for those owners who see their clubs as a massive money making machine to move it to another level by avoiding the financial perils of having to qualify for the CL.

If we don't win the EL this year and don't qualify for europe at all then who knows when we might find our way back into the CL. It could be years, if at all. No wonder Kroenke is all over this idea. It seems to me that we stand to benefit from such a breakaway move more than just about anyone else.

Sky, BT and Uefa are just pissed because someone else has the audacity to stick their snout in the trough.

I reckon Uefa should have increased the CL places in the PL 6, then at least all the so-called big 6 clubs would have had a decent shot at CL qualification every year, and that's all they really care about. As it stands at least 2 big clubs are missing out on CL revenue every season and that is why the European Super League is so attractive.

Its interesting that the German clubs havent supported these proposals (yet). I'm no expert but could it be because their clubs are structured in a way which prevent them from being run primarily as a rich persons play thing or investment vehicle?

I think so, Bored. I mean Kroenke is supposedly one of the big players behind this move and he doesn't even come to Arsenal games, bar the odd cup final.

Good ebening Socrates. I agree football sold out a long time ago so in a way it is a natural progression along the road of profit maximisation. But I still find it jarring to think that a handful of rich owners could set up their own league with no relegation/promotion whilst simultaneously destroying the footbaling culture of the country.

I can’t see this European super league happening. This seems like it’s a power play by those clubs to be used as a bargaining position for better terms in current competitions.
It wouldn’t surprise me to see the big teams in our league start talking about a more structured tv money deal here. The tv deal is split very evenly in the premier league, no matter if you’re top or bottom. I can imagine the teams with the most fans and the most watched on tv try to broker deals for more of the share of the pot as they are the biggest draw. Or even push for their own tv deal.

I agree but the horse has bolted and its too late to shut the stable door. The gravy train is in full flow.

Why not, Rich, its the next logical step, as Bored said, in maximising profits.

Well 5th place Villareal beat 9th place Levante
5-1 today.

Yep. Greed intensified. Something to boast about between rich, elite club owners to pass the time. Why bother having fans attending live matches, when all the TV revenue has to do is scoop up subscriptions worldwide. Doing that now anyway. Especially if/when more matches are play
ed abroad. All this does is narrows the playing field by removing the less endowed clubs. A playground sport only for the super wealthy. Like a high stakes poker game.

I understand what you are saying. Would you be happy if Arsenal were no longer in the EPL and every week you were just looking at what team we were playing in Europe. There may become issues about which grounds are available to be used. Not every team across Europe actually own their own ground. Players would likely be banned from their national teams as well. While that might not mean much to some European players, national games and the World Cup are a big deal to a lot of players around the world. Just say it happened. Having now been released, penalties could be enforced immediately and Arsenal could well be involved in some lengthy legal battles. Plus how do you think our current team would fare in games in a super league next season.

Apparently 9th placed Arsenal drew with 20th placed Fulham today as well but it has been lost because today the club proved how far we are from any values that I can recognise and appreciate.

If you didn’t see it live, I’d recommend watching on BBC iplayer tonight’s MOTD2 (on the Premier League highlights) and the MOTD listed as a separate programme on the FA Cup highlights but to all intents and purposes the same show. At the end of each part of it (MOTD2 on the Premier League and MOTD on the FA Cup) the presenter Mark Chapman and pundits Danny Murphy and Dion Dublin all speak very well about the super league proposals.

If this goes ahead then I will no longer follow Arsenal which I'm viewing as a positive right now.

Unfortunately the proposal includes a relegation / promotion aspect as well so Arsenal could easily drop out of it and find it just as tough to get back in. You're right about Sky, BT and UEFA's indignation and motivations though and this is a play by rich owners to get their hands on more of the money.

Elneny is full of energy. Good to close players down. He has the stamina to chase and chase and chase. Other than that, the expectations from a good offensive midfield player is beyond him. Good squad player.

If it happens the winner will be grass roots football. Watched my grandson over the weekend under 9s I think and he was brilliant but his team mates played like kids, heads down no passing.

I know where I'll be spending weekends in future. I vote no to this form of super league

So Stan is at the forefront of this Super League? https://dailycannon.com/2021/04/european-super-league-arsenal/ Not shocked at all, in fact, no would should. Stan looked at the potential numbers (revenue) and my guess is this was his plan all along down the line. He's a very careful, canny investor. He looks long term.

The TV revenues from the U.S. alone could be astronomical. There are T.V. contracts in America just for the Super Bowl alone, a one time event, is about $2 billion dollars.

I got this from the net:
"The largest domestic TV deal is the Premier League, which has agreed a deal from 2019-2022 of an estimated £5bn for the three years for 200 live matches per season."

This is what the NFL is getting. A sport that is only popular in America.
"CBS, ESPN/ABC, Fox, and NBC agreed to pay $89.5 billion over the next 11 years for the rights to air pro football game"

Kroenke is looking at this potential league and thinking, his cut alone would be massive. The guy knows nothing about football and I gurantee you, willing to bet anything, that outside of Real Madrid and Barcelona he only heard of Bayern Munich, Juve, PSG and any other major continental club from trying to form this league. No doubt whatsoever at all that when he bought Arsenal he had no idea who they were.

I know how I sounded when we had the debate of him or Usmanov were going on. I knew no one on here would fully understand. I had said a long time the last thing you want are Americans involved in football. We'll muck it up like we did our own professional sports. Make rules changes purely for monetary reasons and not for sporting reasons to make it better. Defense has pretty been banned from the NBA and NFL. Look at the scores today compared to 30 or 40 years ago. You can't do certain things these days. In basketball if you look menacingly at someone its a foul (overstating but I'm not too far off from the truth).The Super Bowl is no longer a pure sporting event. Its no different than the Oscars, Grammies, or any other entertainment event. Its a show. The talking point after some Super Bowls isn't who won or lost but the adverts. Yes, the friggin' adverts. Andy Green would confirm this I think. I remember one season, an Apple ad was talked about way more than the actual game.

My guess of what will happen? Time outs. The game will be much longer. Possibly up to 3 hours. The average NFL game when was a kid was 2 hours. Maybe a few minutes over but you could pretty much count on 2 hours. Now? Its near 3 hours. There are actually 'tv time outs' in pro games. TV effen time outs? What the hell is that?

With Americans controlling 3 of the biggest clubs in England, its probably too late to save it. I know what we do well. Monetizing. We can make money off stuff that would get laughed at. Who do you think found a way for people to make thousands with cat videos? Do you know why we even say the national anthem at NFL games? The U.S. military paid big money to the NFL to do it. When you are constantly waging wars overseas (we learned that from the Romans), its tough to get the poor urban blacks, poor latinos in barrios of east La and poor whites from Alabama to keep dying for Raytheon to sell guns. You need to glamorize 'serving your country' a bit by tying it to the 'All American sport'.

I loved the purity of football when I started watching it. American pro sports were polluted. I've seen football in England and in Europe slowly degenerate. It's sad. I felt like a kid again discovering football, specifically English football. The passion of the fans. The same passion I had for the Sixers. My day, even week was ruined if we lost to the Boston Celtics. I felt the same way losing to Man Utd. American friends would chastize me. "Why don't you love your own sports?" I said "My sports stopped loving me". The stories of life on the terraces, traveling to Yorkshire, Lancashire or even within London were pure and similar to American sports growing up.

It's changing now. Rich sugar daddies buying titles, buying history. Sad, sad if this all takes the course I think we are on. It will seem exciting at first but I guarantee you, if Kroenke, Glazer and John Henry (Liverpool) have their way you'll be seeing iPhone, Cadburys and HSBC adverts every 10 minutes when play has stopped. 3 hours later, you'll get your result, average goals scored will be 8 to 10 a game. Perhaps even very few draws as they may introduce shoot outs like the NHL after extra time.

So, which one is Arsenal in this 'Super League'?

I understand that, but I think the backlash from authorities and fans will be big enough to stop it. Talk of the authorities banning players from the national team and excluding them from their domestic league. So the super league clubs are left with just the super league fixtures each season. Fans will vote with their feet and we’ve seen what a lack of fans does to a clubs finances. It is now a case of who blinks first, the clubs who have formed this super league or the authorities who have threatened the ban for them in domestic leagues.

They may very well throw big money at players wages. But for all players at these clubs? What happens to such as the academies? If an academy player doesn’t make it into the first team then is he barred from going to a non-breakaway club?

On your second point: I think UEFA has been shooting itself in the foot by bloating European football, creating a system where the balance between domestic and European competitions is so out of kilter, that domestic leagues, like the domestic cups before them, are in danger of becoming second tier qualifying competitions. Once that happens, there is going to be pressure from the big clubs to change the rules to ensure their qualification, and from there it is a natural step to breaking away from the domestic leagues altogether. So no, I don't think that increasing CL qualification to the top 6 would be a good move.

On your first point: I think that is probably the main reason that it is unlikely to happen. There are huge vested interest in the status quo. The EPL for example is still a vast money spinner with a huge following around the world. It will be a huge dislocation and a big risk for clubs to shift from that. However, this is a big warning: we really need to avoid a situation where clubs start treating 6th place as almost as important as winning the league, and play weakened teams in the league in order to focus on champions league games.

I think it will get done eventually. Maybe not now, but these people are patient and play the long game. There are a great many things the rich want and eventually bide their time. The government as well. For example. The removal 'net neutrality'. Google and others wanted it gone for years. The public in America said hell no. Eventually they bid their time, waited, found the right Congress and President to do it and it got done. The same will happen. Step 1 throw it out there and gauge the reaction. Step 2,Then take note of the reasons the opposition has given and work on a narrative that neutralizes it. Step 3, There will be an event, something in the future that will let it happen.

It will happen, sooner than any of you think it will. There is simply too much money to make for it to go away simply because of outcry from some fans. The tv revenue from America alone will make it a no brainer. Then the Chinese market, Euro market, the rest of the world? It's going to happen. That kind of money to be made never, ever loses these days. They'll line up the right politicians, whatever they have to, and it will get done. Count on it.

Hi Rich,

The big clubs are powerful enough to find a way around it. They might even propose a superleague where the initial 12 teams play each other 4 times a season, thus creating a league with both midweek and weekend fixtures. At this juncture anything could happen.

I suspect fans of the clubs involved might profess faux outrage whilst secretly embracing the idea of playing the big clubs in europe every week.

Of course, as others have mentioned, how long would fans be happy if their team could never actually win anything because the likes of Madrid, Barca, City etc are just too strong and have all he very best players. However, it might be argued that lesser teams like Arsenal and Milan, say, might receive so much of a financial boost from the new league that they would be able to produce competitive teams again.

Uefa won't ban players from internationals because their world cups and euros would be devalued.

If I am honest, I would probably prefer to pay to watch a superleague where every game involves big clubs than the PL where I don't watch two thirds of the games anyway. Who wants to watch Burnley v WBA when you can watch two big sides play each other. As it is I mainly only watch PL games involving at least one of the big six anyway.

How quickly the excitement of a superleague would wear off it we kept getting thumped every week is another matter.