Fixtures March 31st - Manchester City - Etihad Stadium - 3:30 Pm

Kick-Off

       Injuries                 Steve Gleiber



Get the Latest Post Go to the Bottom of Page It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 6:45 pm

All times are UTC


  


Reply to topic

Users browsing this forum: old man of hoy and 96 guests

 
Post #524881  Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2021 7:47 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 12:06 am
Posts: 16350

Rich wrote:
AmericanGooner wrote:
This wild card system, is probably the suggestion of the American owners. American professional sides have been using a 'wild card' system for ages.
I personally think the reason is if a globally followed side has a bad season they will still be in the CL. It dilutes the competition and even though we may benefit, I'm against it in principle.

I read in the article is was supposedly being pushed by Van Der Saar the technical director at Ajax and the Juve technical director who also sits higher up on various UEFA boards I think.
Id agree with you that I highly doubt any of the American owners of big clubs would be against it, it secures their income.

The big teams have enough of an advantage with the seeding system. They should at least have to qualify each season! Imagine the system applied this season Liverpool would probably get in even if their putrid run continued and they finished outside the top 10 in the league!

_________________
Hamba kakuhle, Madiba


 Profile  
 
 
Post #524882  Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2021 7:50 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 12:06 am
Posts: 16350

old man of hoy wrote:
"Nobody's right if everybody's wrong."

Great lines, brilliant song. Amazing hat, ridiculous sideburns!

_________________
Hamba kakuhle, Madiba


 Profile  
 
 
Post #524883  Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2021 8:09 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:02 pm
Posts: 18363

Hazuki wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
Nope it’s a fact. No other outfield player has made more costly mistakes. Not an opinion a fact.



But I rarely, if ever, see his biggest detractors acknowledge all the things he does well. If you want to call him the biggest liability in the league because of that stat, that's fine. But it's also not an opinion that he's one of the most progressive midfielders in the league, whether it's progressive passing, carrying the ball or getting the ball into the final third. The stats are very clear about that. He simply gets the ball forward to teammates more than almost every other midfielder in the league, year after year.


This notion he’s the Swiss Andrea Pirlo is such nonsense. His passing isn’t progressive at all and he always passes “safe” usually a pass 20 yards forward to his full back that manipulates his stats. He recycles possession more than any other player and his asssts and goals are poor.

In addition to that he can’t tackle, Is useless in the air, picks up yellows and reds for fun and needs to take 3 touches to bring the ball under control.

The pass he did at the weekend was the worst pass in the history of Arsenal football club. It even beats Lee Dixon lobbing Seaman as there was an element in freakish nature in that, Xhaka however has that right in his locker to do something so stupid.

He’s shite and apart from those on this forum I think many of our fans think likewise, certainly all my arsenal supporting mates agree.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #524884  Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2021 8:10 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:02 pm
Posts: 18363

I see Piers Moron has been sacked.

Such a shame, he’s not at all a complete *%^@


 Profile  
 
 
Post #524885  Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2021 9:10 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 3:21 pm
Posts: 16415
Location: Stockholm

TOP GUN wrote:
This notion he’s the Swiss Andrea Pirlo is such nonsense. His passing isn’t progressive at all and he always passes “safe” usually a pass 20 yards forward to his full back that manipulates his stats.

Again, this is simply not true which stats show clearly. Not sure why passing forward to a full back is a negative, or recycling possession. It's a big part of what players in his position is supposed to do. His goals and assists record is comparable to players like Fernandinho, Rodri and Fabinho, players who play a similiar role to him. We usually have five players ahead of him not uncluding full backs, all who are expected to contribute more in the final third than the deepest playing midfielder in the team.

As for the cards, he is prone to pick up yellows, but he has three red cards in his Arsenal career - two in 16/17 and one this season.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #524886  Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2021 9:18 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:02 pm
Posts: 18363

Hazuki wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
This notion he’s the Swiss Andrea Pirlo is such nonsense. His passing isn’t progressive at all and he always passes “safe” usually a pass 20 yards forward to his full back that manipulates his stats.

Again, this is simply not true which stats show clearly. Not sure why passing forward to a full back is a negative, or recycling possession. It's a big part of what players in his position is supposed to do. His goals and assists record is comparable to players like Fernandinho, Rodri and Fabinho, players who play a similiar role to him. We usually have five players ahead of him not uncluding full backs, all who are expected to contribute more in the final third than the deepest playing midfielder in the team.

As for the cards, he is prone to pick up yellows, but he has three red cards in his Arsenal career - two in 16/17 and one this season.


Hes a complete blunt instrument. After he was booed off if he was decent someone would have come in for him. They didn’t because nobody decent will touch him for a barge pole. Speaks volumes


 Profile  
 
 
Post #524887  Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2021 9:24 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:27 pm
Posts: 11163

TOP GUN wrote:
Bernard wrote:
Do you even know what a ‘fact’ is? You clearly don’t if you think that is a fact. It is your opinion. No more, no less. Whatever one thinks of your opinion.

Nope it’s a fact. No other outfield player has made more costly mistakes. Not an opinion a fact.

No, what you say is an opinion. Just as much as someone saying he’s the eighth best forward thinking midfielder in Europe (which I don’t) because of those stats would be an opinion. Both views (and note my use of the word ‘views’ because that’s what they are) are opinions based on nothing more than one criterion each. What you claim IS NOT a fact. It is not provable. It is no more than your opinion.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #524888  Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2021 9:29 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:02 pm
Posts: 18363

Bernard wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
Nope it’s a fact. No other outfield player has made more costly mistakes. Not an opinion a fact.

No, what you say is an opinion.


No it’s a fact

stats provided by Opta show no Premier League outfield player has made more errors leading to goals than Xhaka since the start of the 2016-17 season.

That’s a fact, it actually happened. Your making yourself look ridiculous now :laughing7:


 Profile  
 
 
Post #524889  Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2021 9:31 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 3:21 pm
Posts: 16415
Location: Stockholm

Rich wrote:
Mavropanos is doing well in Germany by all accounts. I wonder what his Arsenal future is?
If he’s not one for us then we need to be getting proper money for him, none of this £5-7m nonsense. If he’s playing regularly and we’ll in the top league of one of the top 3 leagues in Europe and given his age that makes him £20m as a minimum

I think sadly his injury record knocks a couple of millions off that price tag. He's had some injuries again this season (missing around half of Stuttgarts games), but seems to have done really well when he's been fit.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #524890  Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2021 9:43 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2008 6:57 pm
Posts: 26425

TOP GUN wrote:
Bernard wrote:
No, what you say is an opinion.


No it’s a fact

stats provided by Opta show no Premier League outfield player has made more errors leading to goals than Xhaka since the start of the 2016-17 season.

That’s a fact, it actually happened. Your making yourself look ridiculous now :laughing7:

The one thing I would add about 'errors leading to goals' stats is they are very subjective. I'm not debating that Xhaka hasn't made clear errors like the one v Burnley but you could assign major defensive errors to all sorts of goals.

Take last night's West Ham v Leeds game, there was a Leeds player marking Craig Dawson at the corner, he completely lost him and Dawson was totally free to head the 2nd goal - I bet that doesn't go down as an error leading to a goal.

Also the season where De Gea was literally throwing them in the net he was nowhere near the top of the GK errors leading to goals. In Leno's debut season he was attributed with 5 errors leading to goals, I really don't remember that feeling very accurate.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #524891  Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2021 10:06 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2015 8:52 pm
Posts: 988
Location: Salisbury

AmericanGooner wrote:


Yeah we're owned by a trump supporting, greedy, land grabbing prick, so much better than an evil oligarch.. lol

So great that we can hold the moral high ground whilst the like of chavski *%^@ on us from above for the last 15 yrs.

Can't wait till city take Saka for £100m to pay off some of KSE's debt.

And no KSE did not fund Partey deal, they restructured some of the debt to free up cash already within the club.


Farsenal!

_________________
Wake me up when wiggy snuffs it


 Profile  
 
 
Post #524892  Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2021 10:27 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 2:58 am
Posts: 33880

This is kinda cool...
https://mymodernmet.com/vinyl-album-covers-alex-bartsch/?fbclid=IwAR34tUG_H9QQg5kAF_HLrfH4HkrSTRUj4fwphnfsulKufOv8oiNYrT8kyTA

_________________
"Never relegated, Never Will Be" :)


 Profile  
 
 
Post #524893  Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2021 10:37 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 3:21 pm
Posts: 16415
Location: Stockholm

AmericanGooner wrote:

Thinking about doing the same once the pandemic is over, starting with this classic

Image


 Profile  
 
 
Post #524894  Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2021 11:44 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:27 pm
Posts: 11163

TOP GUN wrote:
No it’s a fact

stats provided by Opta show no Premier League outfield player has made more errors leading to goals than Xhaka since the start of the 2016-17 season.

That’s a fact, it actually happened. Your making yourself look ridiculous now

Top Gun, if you are using the mistakes leading to goals stat to say it’s a fact that Xhaka is the biggest liability then as Rich explains the definition of what is used to measure that, the gravity of an error, can only be based at least in part on subjectivity. That can only mean it isn’t a fact, surely?

Also, if any aggregate totals are measured since the start of the 2016/17 season, when Xhaka first became an Arsenal player, does it take account of games played, so average mistakes per game compared to everyone else? If not, it could be taken as an inadequate stat.

If you’re having a bit of trouble grasping what I mean, hopefully this will make it clearer. When I was a young kid Arsenal had a useless back-up keeper called Malcolm Webster. But he only played six games, one of which was a clean sheet. In his other five games I bet he gave away fewer goals because of errors than David Seaman did. But David Seaman gave away his goals from errors in 564 games. So it’s not surprising that in 564 games David Seaman gave away more goals from errors than Malcolm Webster did in the five games in which he conceded.

Alongside your alleged fact being based on no more than one single stat for errors leading to goals (which as Rich pointed out are also subjective viewpoints), it can only confirm your fact is a viewpoint. It ignores other criteria that are usable for assessing players, like forward passes in the final third making him the eighth best in Europe. Is it a fact he’s the eighth best midfielder in Europe? No of course it isn’t. Just like it isn’t a fact he’s the worst in England. Both claims would ignore other relevant measures.

In your case it is clearly a very firmly held opinion. But you claim it is a fact, and it isn’t. It’s an opinion, albeit as I said a firmly held one. It is not a fact.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #524895  Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:36 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 2:58 am
Posts: 33880

Regarding Rich's and I suppose others have chimed as well, regarding Xhaka. We can do much better. The question is can we meet our goals (top 6, then top 4, etc.) with him in the first XI? We can, because the game is played with 11 men and you can surround a player with others that negate his liabilities to some extent.

So, my question, is do we settle for that? That old saying there are lies, damn lies and statistics come to mind. No player in NBA history has won more championships than Bill Russell. Almost double Michael Jordan's total and I am not sure Russell lost a final, maybe 1. I'm too lazy to look it up, but he's never mentioned in the same conversation as the NBA G.O.A.T. despite Jordan's 6 rings being used as a hammer to anyone who brings up Kobe Bryant, LeBron James or others.

Kareem Abdul-Jabaar has records that may not be equaled in our lifetime but he gets an honorable mention at most for G.O.A.T.

I recall a debate about Gilberto's usefulness, with the majority I think saying he should be replaced. Stats were dragged out for him. Gilberto is one of those Arsenal players that people look back relatively fondly but had mixed opinions while he was playing, despite almost everyone who started in the 'Invincible' era being given legendary status by fans. Xhaka could end up this era's Gilberto but only if we achieve some success.

Xhaka does seem to have some good intangibles you can't really quantify. Tough willed, obviously a leader who the squad likes. I'm also not going to use his error as a reason he's not good enough. He doesn't make those types of blunders often. If it was Mustafi (who I send my best regards to in Germany), it would be apropos, but I think a bit unfair for Xhaka.

As it stands, Xhaka is going to be a fixture in the club buy all indications. So, like Kroenke, nothing we can do about it as fans. I just hope we buy well and surround him with quality.

_________________
"Never relegated, Never Will Be" :)


 Profile  
 
 
Post #524896  Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 4:07 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 10:04 am
Posts: 7361
Location: Townsville Australia

The real questions in the Xhaka debate are
1. Is he good enough to play for us in the alleged Arteta project. If yes then
2. in the unlikelihood that Arteta succeeds is he good enough for a team challenging for top 4 and the title.

Some might say I might have disclosed my thoughts on Arteta in the way the question is framed. I will concede that.

But exactly the say question can be asked about Willian, Luiz, and a few others.

_________________
If this policy does not deliver then I would say we have to change it.
AW 150810


 Profile  
 
 
Post #524897  Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 6:59 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:02 pm
Posts: 18363

Bernard wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
No it’s a fact

stats provided by Opta show no Premier League outfield player has made more errors leading to goals than Xhaka since the start of the 2016-17 season.

That’s a fact, it actually happened. Your making yourself look ridiculous now

Top Gun, if you are using the mistakes leading to goals stat to say it’s a fact that Xhaka is the biggest liability then as Rich explains the definition of what is used to measure that, the gravity of an error, can only be based at least in part on subjectivity. That can only mean it isn’t a fact, surely?

Also, if any aggregate totals are measured since the start of the 2016/17 season, when Xhaka first became an Arsenal player, does it take account of games played, so average mistakes per game compared to everyone else? If not, it could be taken as an inadequate stat.

If you’re having a bit of trouble grasping what I mean, hopefully this will make it clearer. When I was a young kid Arsenal had a useless back-up keeper called Malcolm Webster. But he only played six games, one of which was a clean sheet. In his other five games I bet he gave away fewer goals because of errors than David Seaman did. But David Seaman gave away his goals from errors in 564 games. So it’s not surprising that in 564 games David Seaman gave away more goals from errors than Malcolm Webster did in the five games in which he conceded.

Alongside your alleged fact being based on no more than one single stat for errors leading to goals (which as Rich pointed out are also subjective viewpoints), it can only confirm your fact is a viewpoint. It ignores other criteria that are usable for assessing players, like forward passes in the final third making him the eighth best in Europe. Is it a fact he’s the eighth best midfielder in Europe? No of course it isn’t. Just like it isn’t a fact he’s the worst in England. Both claims would ignore other relevant measures.

In your case it is clearly a very firmly held opinion. But you claim it is a fact, and it isn’t. It’s an opinion, albeit as I said a firmly held one. It is not a fact.


Not it’s a fact. If you pass the ball to an opposing player in your own penalty area that’s an individual mistake. Xhaka has made more individual mistakes than any other player for the last 4 years. All fact. Not opinion a fact. To ignore it is denying the truth and obvious


 Profile  
 
 
Post #524898  Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 7:20 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:02 pm
Posts: 18363

Question: since 2016 what player has given away the most penalties in the premier league ?


 Profile  
 
 
Post #524899  Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 7:22 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 2:58 am
Posts: 33880

I'm not going to make more of this than it is but I do worry Martinelli will eventually sour on playing for us long term. Not now but in a couple years.

Problem can be solved with Martinelli playing is favored position and Saka as attacking center mid.

https://www.football.london/arsenal-fc/news/gabriel-martinelli-mikel-arteta-arsenal-20018943

_________________
"Never relegated, Never Will Be" :)


 Profile  
 
 
Post #524900  Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 7:36 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:27 pm
Posts: 11163

TOP GUN wrote:
Bernard wrote:
Top Gun, if you are using the mistakes leading to goals stat to say it’s a fact that Xhaka is the biggest liability then as Rich explains the definition of what is used to measure that, the gravity of an error, can only be based at least in part on subjectivity. That can only mean it isn’t a fact, surely?

Also, if any aggregate totals are measured since the start of the 2016/17 season, when Xhaka first became an Arsenal player, does it take account of games played, so average mistakes per game compared to everyone else? If not, it could be taken as an inadequate stat.

If you’re having a bit of trouble grasping what I mean, hopefully this will make it clearer. When I was a young kid Arsenal had a useless back-up keeper called Malcolm Webster. But he only played six games, one of which was a clean sheet. In his other five games I bet he gave away fewer goals because of errors than David Seaman did. But David Seaman gave away his goals from errors in 564 games. So it’s not surprising that in 564 games David Seaman gave away more goals from errors than Malcolm Webster did in the five games in which he conceded.

Alongside your alleged fact being based on no more than one single stat for errors leading to goals (which as Rich pointed out are also subjective viewpoints), it can only confirm your fact is a viewpoint. It ignores other criteria that are usable for assessing players, like forward passes in the final third making him the eighth best in Europe. Is it a fact he’s the eighth best midfielder in Europe? No of course it isn’t. Just like it isn’t a fact he’s the worst in England. Both claims would ignore other relevant measures.

In your case it is clearly a very firmly held opinion. But you claim it is a fact, and it isn’t. It’s an opinion, albeit as I said a firmly held one. It is not a fact.

Not it’s a fact. If you pass the ball to an opposing player in your own penalty area that’s an individual mistake. Xhaka has made more individual mistakes than any other player for the last 4 years. All fact. Not opinion a fact. To ignore it is denying the truth and obvious

No it isn’t a fact that alone makes him the countries worst midfielder, as you appear to be claiming. Do you seriously think errors to concede goals, which as Rich points out is a subjective (so non-factual) assessment is the only criterion for measuring a player’s quality? I think you’re on a wind up. Even you must realise that single measure is inadequate. If someone claimed he was the eighth best player in Europe because only seven other players pass the ball forward into the opposition’s final third more, I’m sure you would accept that that alone is an inadequate measure.

Well in the same way the aggregate giving away goals measure is on it’s own equally inadequate. Otherwise, you would have to believe Seaman was a worse keeper than Webster (see my example above).


 Profile  
 
 
Post #524901  Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 7:38 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:02 pm
Posts: 18363

Bernard wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
Not it’s a fact. If you pass the ball to an opposing player in your own penalty area that’s an individual mistake. Xhaka has made more individual mistakes than any other player for the last 4 years. All fact. Not opinion a fact. To ignore it is denying the truth and obvious

No it isn’t a fact that alone makes him the countries worst midfielder, as you appear to be claiming. Do you seriously think errors to concede goals, which as Rich points out is a subjective (so non-factual) assessment is the only criterion for measuring a player’s quality? I think you’re on a wind up. Even you must realise that single measure is inadequate. If someone claimed he was the eighth best player in Europe because only seven other players pass the ball forward into the opposition’s final third, I’m sure you would accept that that alone is an inadequate measure.

Well in the same way the aggregate giving away goals measure is on it’s own equally inadequate. Otherwise, you would have to believe Seaman was a worse keeper than Webster (see my example above).


No it’s a fact it’s not subjective. Passing statistics are subjective as the outcome can often not lead to a decisive moment in the game. He’s also given away more penalties than any other player in the same period so do you consider that statistic subjective ?

Your in 28 to 29 years old territory here.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #524902  Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 8:13 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:27 pm
Posts: 11163

TOP GUN wrote:
Bernard wrote:
No it isn’t a fact that alone makes him the countries worst midfielder, as you appear to be claiming. Do you seriously think errors to concede goals, which as Rich points out is a subjective (so non-factual) assessment is the only criterion for measuring a player’s quality? I think you’re on a wind up. Even you must realise that single measure is inadequate. If someone claimed he was the eighth best player in Europe because only seven other players pass the ball forward into the opposition’s final third, I’m sure you would accept that that alone is an inadequate measure.

Well in the same way the aggregate giving away goals measure is on it’s own equally inadequate. Otherwise, you would have to believe Seaman was a worse keeper than Webster (see my example above).


No it’s a fact it’s not subjective. Passing statistics are subjective as the outcome can often not lead to a decisive moment in the game. He’s also given away more penalties than any other player in the same period so do you consider that statistic subjective ?

Your in 28 to 29 years old territory here.

I don’t know what 28 to 29 years old territory means. But what I do know is, as Rich carefully explained, the judgement of errors is subjective. It can’t be a thing else. There’s also enough debate on here about whether penalties should or should not be given to know that is a subjective judgment too.

By the way. It’s practically guaranteed Seaman gave away more goals from errors in his 524 games than Webster did in his six games and one was a clean sheet. Do you think that alone makes Seaman a worse keeper than Webster?


 Profile  
 
 
Post #524903  Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 8:21 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:02 pm
Posts: 18363

Bernard wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:

No it’s a fact it’s not subjective. Passing statistics are subjective as the outcome can often not lead to a decisive moment in the game. He’s also given away more penalties than any other player in the same period so do you consider that statistic subjective ?

Your in 28 to 29 years old territory here.

I don’t know what 28 to 29 years old territory means. But what I do know is, as Rich carefully explained, the judgement of errors is subjective. It can’t be a thing else. There’s also enough debate on here about whether penalties should or should not be given to know that is a subjective judgment too.

By the way. It’s practically guaranteed Seaman gave away more goals from errors in his 524 games than Webster did in his six games and one was a clean sheet. Do you think that alone makes Seaman a worse keeper than Webster?


A goalkeepers involvement in a goal is subjective as they could be criticised for everything. An outfield player not.

It’s not subjective that passing to an opposing player in your own box is an individual error. It’s not subjective that ridiculously diving in to take out son in the penalty area in a north London Derby is an individual mistake. It’s not subjective grabbing a player round the neck and getting sent off to cost us a game is an individual mistake.

Your pointing at the sky howling that it’s green rather than blue


 Profile  
 
 
Post #524904  Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 8:29 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2008 6:57 pm
Posts: 26425

Errors leading to goals is difficult to judge. In some instances it is dead easy, Xhaka v Burnley or one would assume, giving away a penalty. But to take that last example, what if a defender plays a no look back-pass that is intercepted and as the GK closes the striker down he gives away the penalty? Is that the GK assigned an error leading to a goal or the defender, or both? Are all own goals considered errors leading to goals, You'd think not as a unlucky deflection can fly in, but if you lob your own GK like Dixon then yes - but there are lots of instances between those two extremes.

Aubameyang's goal v Burnley. Arsenal fans will say wonderful forward play to fool the defender with multiple stepovers and score hard and low at the near post. Burnley fans will probably blame Lowton for allowing Aubameyang inside on his strong foot so easily and partially blame Pope for getting beaten at his near post. But I'm sure that goal won't have an 'error' attributed to it.

Each person is going to view things differently. You could test it this weekend by anyone who cares watching all the goals in the premier league and deciding how many true 'errors leading to goals' there are and see how different the figures are across the forum.

So to bring this back to Xhaka, he has conceded some quite blatant errors leading to goals but to just focus on that when he's had 10 good games prior is a bit unfair. You could argue Pépé was just as guilty for our defeat by missing at least 1 if not 2 quite simple chances to score the winner.
Is Xhaka good enough to start for us to get us in the top 4? Currently no, but if you buy quality players around him of course he can be. Of course I think we can improve on him, and realistically improve rather than an unrealistic option because I could say we could improve on Aubameyang by signing Haaland. Currently he is the 2nd best central midfielder we have and I think he will be with us next season but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be buying someone to push him for his place in the team.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #524905  Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 8:36 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 11:15 am
Posts: 2692

TOP GUN wrote:
A goalkeepers involvement in a goal is subjective as they could be criticised for everything. An outfield player not.

Is this set in stone? Direct from Mount Sinai? I'd love to know your source.

_________________
'It's the gaps what rocks' - Steve Marriott


 Profile  
 
 
Post #524906  Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 8:37 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:27 pm
Posts: 11163

TOP GUN wrote:
A goalkeepers involvement in a goal is subjective as they could be criticised for everything. An outfield player not.

You’ve made it quite clear that outfield players can be criticised for anything too. For an example, do you know I once (in fact many times more than once) saw someone claim Xhaka only passes the ball sideways and back when he is actually the eighth most progressive forward passer across the five top league in Europe. Remarkable isn’t it.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #524907  Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 8:38 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:02 pm
Posts: 18363

mcquilkie wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
A goalkeepers involvement in a goal is subjective as they could be criticised for everything. An outfield player not.

Is this set in stone? Direct from Mount Sinai? I'd love to know your source.

This doesn’t even make sense, congratulations


 Profile  
 
 
Post #524908  Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 8:40 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:02 pm
Posts: 18363

Bernard wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
A goalkeepers involvement in a goal is subjective as they could be criticised for everything. An outfield player not.

You’ve made it quite clear that outfield players can be criticised for anything too. For an example, do you know I once (in fact many times more than once) saw someone claim Xhaka only passes the ball sideways and back when he is actually the eighth most progressive forward passer across the five top league in Europe. Remarkable isn’t it.


Because that’s subjective. If they don’t lead to anything there’s no evidence to suggest the passing is effective.

Giving away a penalty is conclusive and Xhaka has given away more than any other player.

Basically your howling at the moon and sticking your head in the sand.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #524909  Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 8:47 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:02 pm
Posts: 18363

Rich wrote:


Is Xhaka good enough to start for us to get us in the top 4? Currently no, but if you buy quality players around him of course he can be. .


Now this IS a subjective opinion but I don’t think he can. I don’t think any of the top 5 clubs would touch him with a barge pole and he when would have been available for transfer due to his previous meltdown with the fans the only club that showed interest was her Hertha Berlin which is probably his actual level.

His game is littered with errors and I think Gary Neville summed him Up perfectly when he said “he’s the least experienced experienced player of all time”


 Profile  
 
 
Post #524910  Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 8:50 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 3:21 pm
Posts: 16415
Location: Stockholm

Rich wrote:
Currently he is the 2nd best central midfielder we have and I think he will be with us next season but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be buying someone to push him for his place in the team.

I fully agree with this. I don't think finding someone better than Xhaka will be as easy as some, but for me central midfield is a priority in the summer. If we can find someone who is good enough to grab a starting spot in midfield that's great, because that means we have improved as a team - watching Xhaka succeed is no end in itself for me. I just happen to rate him higher than many Arsenal fans at his current ability.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #524911  Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 8:58 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:27 pm
Posts: 11163

TOP GUN wrote:
Giving away a penalty is conclusive and Xhaka has given away more than any other player.

Whether the decision to award a penalty was correct or not can definitely be subjective. Try reading the posts of Rich. Also the aggregate totals for a penalty being awarded is on its own a hopelessly inadequate criterion for measuring player quality. You would expect a player with over 200 appearances to have more penalties awarded against him than a player in a similar position who has played a much lower number of games than 200.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #524912  Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:05 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 11:15 am
Posts: 2692

TOP GUN wrote:
mcquilkie wrote:
Is this set in stone? Direct from Mount Sinai? I'd love to know your source.

This doesn’t even make sense, congratulations

Failure to engage with the argument - textbook technique. Nicely employed, actually: I'd give it 8 out of 10.

_________________
'It's the gaps what rocks' - Steve Marriott


 Profile  
 
 
Post #524913  Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:07 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:02 pm
Posts: 18363

Bernard wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
Giving away a penalty is conclusive and Xhaka has given away more than any other player.

Whether the decision to award a penalty was correct or not can definitely be subjective. Try reading the posts of Rich. Also the aggregate totals for a penalty being awarded is on its own a hopelessly inadequate criterion for measuring player quality. You would expect a player with over 200 appearances to have more penalties awarded against him than a player in a similar position who has played a much lower number of games than 200.


My point remains, grabbing someone by the neck isn’t subjective. Passing to an opposing player in your own box isn’t subjective, diving in with both feet isn’t subjective. These are individual mistakes.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #524914  Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:08 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:02 pm
Posts: 18363

mcquilkie wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
This doesn’t even make sense, congratulations

Failure to engage with the argument - textbook technique. Nicely employed, actually: I'd give it 8 out of 10.


It doesn’t even make sense. I’m not sure what response you wish to solicit


 Profile  
 
 
Post #524915  Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:21 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:02 pm
Posts: 18363

It isn’t a matter of opinion that this is *%^@*** stupid :42laughter:

https://youtu.be/NTKdNIk4TJ0


 Profile  
 
 
Post #524916  Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:25 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:02 pm
Posts: 18363

Henry really isn’t being subjective enough shame on him..

https://youtu.be/F_jSnpG1XkE


 Profile  
 
 
Post #524917  Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:57 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:02 pm
Posts: 18363

Disappointing comments from Neville here.

He should be countering his actual opinion by pointing at meaningless stats about recycling possession :58big-emoticons:

https://www.fourfourtwo.com/news/granit ... ad-him-one


 Profile  
 
 
Post #524918  Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:04 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:27 pm
Posts: 11163

TOP GUN wrote:
Bernard wrote:
Whether the decision to award a penalty was correct or not can definitely be subjective. Try reading the posts of Rich. Also the aggregate totals for a penalty being awarded is on its own a hopelessly inadequate criterion for measuring player quality. You would expect a player with over 200 appearances to have more penalties awarded against him than a player in a similar position who has played a much lower number of games than 200.

My point remains, grabbing someone by the neck isn’t subjective. Passing to an opposing player in your own box isn’t subjective, diving in with both feet isn’t subjective. These are individual mistakes.

You could find specific mistakes by any player. Anyone. But what you’re trying to do is take the aggregate number of penalties conceded by Xhaka as a measure of his overall game by seeming to claim it makes him the worst. For a criterion that is undeniably subjective (despite any attempts you’re making to deny its subjectivity) and refusing to take account of games played, it’s a hopelessly inadequate measure of player quality.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #524919  Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:10 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:02 pm
Posts: 18363

Bernard wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
My point remains, grabbing someone by the neck isn’t subjective. Passing to an opposing player in your own box isn’t subjective, diving in with both feet isn’t subjective. These are individual mistakes.

You could find specific mistakes by any player. Anyone. But what you’re trying to do is take the aggregate number of penalties conceded by Xhaka as a measure of his overall game by seeming to claim it makes him the worst. For a criterion that is undeniably subjective (despite any attempts you’re making to deny its subjectivity) and refusing to take account of games played, it’s a hopelessly inadequate measure of player quality.


It’s a fact that Xhaka has conceded more penalties than any other player since 2016. It’s not subjective it actually occurred. Debating wether the penalties should be given would be subjective but it’s a fact the referee gave them. :58big-emoticons:

To suggest otherwise is an attempt to live in an alternate reality


 Profile  
 
 
Post #524920  Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:19 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 3:21 pm
Posts: 16415
Location: Stockholm

TOP GUN wrote:
It’s a fact that Xhaka has conceded more penalties than any other player since 2016.

Where is that stat from? On premierleague.com they have Xhaka down for five conceded penalties since 16/17. David Luiz had that many last season alone.


 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
     [ 570734 posts ] 
Go to page Previous  1 ... 13120, 13121, 13122, 13123, 13124, 13125, 13126 ... 14269  Next

All times are UTC

Gooners Online - Click to see what Everyones Doing

Colour Key:  Visited Profile    Members Profile      Admin

Get Latest Post

Users browsing this forum: old man of hoy and 96 guests


Search for:

Go to Top

Powered by php BB © 1993 - 2018