Watched a fair bit of the second half (very little of the first) but from what I did see, I thought Scotland deserved their point. Delighted for them, as at least they still have a chance of qualifying.

One should take one's pleasure where one can, Gaz

Scotland deserve a lot of credit for that performance and it wouldn't have flattered them if they'd nicked a winner. England will have to up their game significantly to have any chance of going deep into the tournament. I agree with Graham Souness when he said that you need to replace either Rice or Phillips in the England midfield with someone more creative.

Lots of happy Scots because they didn't lose, but in truth that was a constipated game of football. Where have all the flank players who take on their backs gone to? Where was the creative forward pass? Just a few moments of excitement, and for me the Tierney cross for a good volley well saved was the only classy moment in a turgid match. Kane looks knackered and without him firing England's prospects look limited.

I only watched about 20 minutes but it was in the second half when Kane was put thru but a long way out and he was run down with ease and while a foul was given against the Scots he really looked more like Lacca than a 100million pound player. I wonder if he is on the slide.

Sorry, can't help it. It wasn't over-the-top slagging. Just don't like the way he plays. I prefer him to be tougher, like Cesc. Agree, he could potentially be a magician in the middle of the park. But I've not seen enough to be convinced he is able to bring up his game to match the opposition when needed. Well, I've been wrong before (don't we all?), and if he stays with us, hope he proves me wrong.

Sorry but in my view it was grossly over the top slagging. You implied Ødegaard isn’t driven and pulls away from tackles. That’s a criticism of his attitude that I see as way over the top. Creative players can show inconsistency (look at the England players last night) and if you had restricted your criticisms to that issue rather than implying he has a poor non-driven and tackle avoiding attitude I would have accepted it. Albeit I would have commented that you were probably being unfair because of his age and newness to the country and Premier League.

Ødegaard as a talent is arguably on another level. He did enough to convince me of that, while he was here. As I say, I wouldn’t want to lose Smith Rowe to acquire him, which is the rumour that started this debate. But I think many fans are too willing to use over the top criticism by slagging players off. I think you could have found a more reasonable way of saying we shouldn’t lose Smith Rowe to get him. That’s my point here. You went over the top. Your post was made even worse by saying Ødegaard is “Not anywhere close to Özil,” who would be very near the top if I was listing the Arsenal players I’ve seen with the worst attitudes.

However, I do agree with Zed’s point. Ødegaard will probably be better off (career wise) going back to Real than joining Arsenal.

Goodness Bernard ... you make yourself out to be the key moderator of my opinions. I didn't know I had a "wife" in this forum to tell me what I should and should not think.

So, you feel I'm over the top, ok. I said I wasn't, so sue me. I'll let my lawyer know to expect your call.

I’m not telling you what you should or shouldn’t think. But when you post here, I think it’s perfectly reasonable for others to give their opinions on your views. That’s all I was doing.

Yup, and I've always accepted differing thoughts to mine. But your response was over-the-top, pun intended

Ok, let's be friends

I only watched about 20 minutes but it was in the second half when Kane was put thru but a long way out and he was run down with ease and while a foul was given against the Scots he really looked more like Lacca than a 100million pound player. I wonder if he is on the slide.

Wrighty was none too pleased that Phil Foden was taken off in favour of Greilsh. Greilish, who in turn had been out for a bit, really didn't do much at all anyway.

There was some discussion on here earlier about the roles of the 8 and 10.

For me that game highlighted the problem with these modern formations which is the striker is left isolated. If mount is playing in the 10 role he had to get closer to Kane otherwise essentially all you have is a marked striker. arsenal were guilty of this a lot in the first part of last season.

Kane looks out of sorts and will get pelters but really you have to get players closer to him and bouncing off him

Goodness Bernard ... you make yourself out to be the key moderator of my opinions. I didn't know I had a "wife" in this forum to tell me what I should and should not think...

I didn't know I had a "wife" in this forum to tell me what I should and should not think.

I see these players as starting deeper than a classic 10 but being able to carry the ball forward and create chances. Smith Rowe I could see doing this role, also Aouar feels like this sort of player.

and a bag of Eboues to go with it.

Yes he was easily outrun - quite painful to watch such a fine player so reduced. He plays too many games for Spurs to ever be fresh enough for the end of season international tournaments. Can't blame Spurs for getting their moneysworth but as you suggest they may have had the best of him.

Maybe not much.

Weird to see a French team without an Arsenal player even on the bench.

Couldn’t agree more. You’re just as entitled to think my response to you was over the top as I thought your stuff about Ødegaard was. I think the main strength of the forum is others giving their views on the opinions expressed.

I like the pace of the Hungarians. Positive, purposeful football.

And they hold out for a draw against the world champions.

Just like England holding out for a draw against Scotland eh?

Great start to Germany - Portugal. Have to say it's been a brilliant tournament so far, almost every game has been entertaining to watch.

Portugal are on fire. Now scored three. Only problem is that the last two were in their own net.

Portugal are on fire. Now scored three. Only problem is that the last two were in their own net.

They seem to have given the first Germany goal to Havertz, not sure how as he never touched the ball

Sky Sports and also the official site still have it as an own goal

The may be Bananaskin with different ideas.