Steve Gleibers Arsenal Forum
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Supporters Forum
https://stevegleiber.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=6
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Author:  TOP GUN [ Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum

DHD wrote:
Slightly daft and maybe naïve question, but I'll ask it anyway.

In modern football, what's the essential difference between the number 10 role and the number 8 role?


Depends on the coach and the set up.

generally accepted the number 8 has more defensive duties than the 10. The suggestion is Partey is best played as an 8

Author:  DHD [ Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum

Thanks Bern & TG. I see what you're both saying and I wouldn't disagree. Tricky one.

In terms of 8 or 10, how should we view Saka and Smith-Rowe?

Author:  Bernard [ Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum

TOP GUN wrote:
DHD wrote:
Slightly daft and maybe naïve question, but I'll ask it anyway.

In modern football, what's the essential difference between the number 10 role and the number 8 role?

Depends on the coach and the set up.

generally accepted the number 8 has more defensive duties than the 10. The suggestion is Partey is best played as an 8

Traditionally I’ve always seen the number 4 as the defensive midfielder.

Author:  TOP GUN [ Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum

DHD wrote:
Thanks Bern & TG. I see what you're both saying and I wouldn't disagree. Tricky one.

In terms of 8 or 10, how should we view Saka and Smith-Rowe?


Emile Smith Rowe is a 10 who can also play wide left if the coach wants to retain possession a bit more (maybe in a big game) . Ødegaard is clearly a 10 and likewise Maddison. The type of player we need to invest in this summer in my opinion

Saka is neither and looks best wide left or right i think.

Cazorla and Fàbregas we’re good enough to be played in either position. Actually cazorla was so good he could play anywhere apart from defence or striker I reckon

Author:  Bernard [ Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum

DHD wrote:
Thanks Bern & TG. I see what you're both saying and I wouldn't disagree. Tricky one.

In terms of 8 or 10, how should we view Saka and Smith-Rowe?

Saka number 11 and Smith Rowe 7 maybe, as I see those as the wide midfielder numbers which is probably a decent description of them?

In sum, I’ve always seen the numbers as closest to these roles. 1 goalkeeper, 2 right back, 3 left back, 4 defensive midfielder, 5 strong in the air central defender, 6 ball playing central defender, 7 right midfield, 8 creative central midfield, 9 centre forward, 10 creative central forward, 11 left midfield.

EDIT: The numbers above have lost relevance to modern formations (for example, many teams don’t play with a traditional centre forward these days). Squad numbers have made them even less relevant as well. I wonder when the last time was that Arsenal’s starting eleven had the shirt numbers 1-11?

Author:  TOP GUN [ Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum

It’s not really numerical anymore as squad numbers have chucked all that out the window but people refer to 8 and 10 as numbers still for some reason to determine the roles of the 2 more attacking midfielders. Just a form of terminology people use for some reason

Author:  old man of hoy [ Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum

TOP GUN wrote:
Seems a reasonable fee. He never impressed at all for us really....
Agreed. Reported as being bought for £1.9m, so if this sale happens a £5m profit does not seem too shabby.

Author:  DHD [ Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum

TOP GUN wrote:
It’s not really numerical anymore as squad numbers have chucked all that out the window but people refer to 8 and 10 as numbers still for some reason to determine the roles of the 2 more attacking midfielders. Just a form of terminology people use for some reason


I think I'd agree with this TG, and with your last 'Edit' Bern. The numbers and their designations haven't made a great deal of sense to me for a while.

Author:  old man of hoy [ Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum

DHD wrote:
Slightly daft and maybe naïve question, but I'll ask it anyway.

In modern football, what's the essential difference between the number 10 role and the number 8 role?
2?

Author:  TOP GUN [ Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum

Historically some of the time at Arsenal some of the more defensive midfielders wore 8 a lot. Paul Davis (a favourite of mine) and Kevin Richardson for example.

Ian Wright certainly broke that and made the number his own.

Author:  DHD [ Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum

old man of hoy wrote:
DHD wrote:
Slightly daft and maybe naïve question, but I'll ask it anyway.

In modern football, what's the essential difference between the number 10 role and the number 8 role?
2?

A right back?

Author:  Rich [ Fri Jun 18, 2021 12:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum

Amid my moaning on the pitiful transfer fees we receive, or supposedly receive the acid test will be if Willock and AMN are sold.
You could make a case for a lot of our players who might be sold that we aren't in a strong negotiating position, be it contract length, age, injuries, attitude or ability of the player - each of the likes of Xhaka, Lacazette, Nketiah, Elneny, Kolasinac, Mavropanos and even Bellerin have circumstances where it might be difficult for us to get top whack for them. But Willock and AMN we do not have to sell, as young home grown players on the up they are a rare commodity and will have plenty of suiters. We must not sell either on the cheap if they do depart.

Author:  Rich [ Fri Jun 18, 2021 12:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum

Bernard wrote:
DHD wrote:
Slightly daft and maybe naïve question, but I'll ask it anyway.

In modern football, what's the essential difference between the number 10 role and the number 8 role?

I’ve always seen the number 10 role as the deep creative central forward role. A sort of Cantona or Bergkamp player. I’ve always seen the number 8 as the creative central midfielder role. A sort of Cazorla or Fabregas type of player, even if they don’t have the 8 shirt.

Agree. It is a question of formation I think
In a 4-2-3-1 you have a definite 10 behind the striker. If that player goes deeper and therefore becomes an 8 the formation changes to 4-3-3 or 4-3-2-1
Ina classic 4-4-2 you could have an 8 and a 10, with the 10 slightly off the main centre forward but not many teams play like that nowadays and ironically those that do tend to be scrappy teams who wouldn't field an 8 or a 10 - they tend to go with 2 No.4's in central midfield and 2 No. 9's up front. Think of Burnley and you'll get my thinking.

Taking it further someone like Pep plays with 2 No.8s (De Bruyne and Silva for a long time). With a single holding midfielder this formation is 4-1-2-2-1 with 2 wide men and 2 8's behind. I think this is the sort of thing Arteta would like to implement at Arsenal it is a kind of very attacking 4-3-3

Author:  Rich [ Fri Jun 18, 2021 12:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum

Bernard wrote:
In sum, I’ve always seen the numbers as closest to these roles. 1 goalkeeper, 2 right back, 3 left back, 4 defensive midfielder, 5 strong in the air central defender, 6 ball playing central defender, 7 right midfield, 8 creative central midfield, 9 centre forward, 10 creative central forward, 11 left midfield.

This is exactly how I see shirt numbers on the classic english 4-4-2. I think other countries have this a bit different. Some have the 6 as a holding midfielder, and I'm sure I've seen some national teams have 3 as a CB - whether that came from player preference or not I don't know.
The one I recall was Brazil when Roberto Carlos at left back wore 6 and Lucio the CB used to wear 3.

Author:  long time gooner [ Fri Jun 18, 2021 1:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum

I played no 4 for my primary school team.

That was right half in a 2-3-5 formation. And we played in heavy mens’ rugby shirts. And used dubbin on our boots.

Author:  Lincoln gooner [ Fri Jun 18, 2021 1:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum

long time gooner wrote:
I played no 4 for my primary school team.

That was right half in a 2-3-5 formation. And we played in heavy mens’ rugby shirts. And used dubbin on our boots.

Presumably you used jumpers for goalposts.

Author:  long time gooner [ Fri Jun 18, 2021 1:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum

bromley gooner wrote:
long time gooner wrote:
I played no 4 for my primary school team.

That was right half in a 2-3-5 formation. And we played in heavy mens’ rugby shirts. And used dubbin on our boots.

Presumably you used jumpers for goalposts.

Proper goalposts. No nets though.

Author:  Rich [ Fri Jun 18, 2021 1:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum

https://twitter.com/adamvoge/status/1405880764953206787

This guy on twitter does some great chart and stats analysis of players.
This is a selection of central midfielders ranked on their attacking and ball retention. He's pushing Auoar again, if he's available for less than last year that is a good example of extracting value from this market

Author:  Rich [ Fri Jun 18, 2021 2:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum

long time gooner wrote:
I played no 4 for my primary school team.

That was right half in a 2-3-5 formation. And we played in heavy mens’ rugby shirts. And used dubbin on our boots.

At school we had school issue rugby shirts that were reversible. plain on one side and hoops on the other. We'd spend half the lesson doing various rugby drills then half the lesson playing a match where half the class had to reverse their tops which were now nice and muddy. The feeling of putting the muddy side against your skin was not a nice one

Author:  long time gooner [ Fri Jun 18, 2021 2:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum

Rich wrote:
long time gooner wrote:
I played no 4 for my primary school team.

That was right half in a 2-3-5 formation. And we played in heavy mens’ rugby shirts. And used dubbin on our boots.

At school we had school issue rugby shirts that were reversible. plain on one side and hoops on the other. We'd spend half the lesson doing various rugby drills then half the lesson playing a match where half the class had to reverse their tops which were now nice and muddy. The feeling of putting the muddy side against your skin was not a nice one

Yuk. I can imagine that feeling still living with you.

Author:  gooner7 [ Fri Jun 18, 2021 2:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum

Bernard wrote:
gooner7 wrote:
Likely nonsense writing. If true, hope Arsenal don't make the dumb decision to agree on this.

Emile Smith Rowe home grown, and has established himself as a trusted first-teamer. Much more driven player than almost the entire squad (something we need in abundance).

Ødegaard, I'm still not convinced he can make it happen for us. Pulls away from tackles too quickly. Not anywhere close to Özil, Cesc or Carzola level to warrant this swap.

I agree, it’s probably nonsense journalism and I wouldn’t want to lose Smith Rowe for Ødegaard either. But can’t you find ways to say that without slagging Ødegaard off? Ødegaard is an elite talent and potentially a truly elite player. I suspect that’s why Real Madrid, in my view the world’s biggest club, not only bought him but probably want to keep him. I bet he ends up achieving more in the game than Cazorla, sadly as I don’t see it being with Arsenal.


Sorry, can't help it. It wasn't over-the-top slagging. Just don't like the way he plays. I prefer him to be tougher, like Cesc. Agree, he could potentially be a magician in the middle of the park. But I've not seen enough to be convinced he is able to bring up his game to match the opposition when needed. Well, I've been wrong before (don't we all?), and if he stays with us, hope he proves me wrong.

Author:  gooner7 [ Fri Jun 18, 2021 2:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum

DHD wrote:
Slightly daft and maybe naïve question, but I'll ask it anyway.

In modern football, what's the essential difference between the number 10 role and the number 8 role?


The number 9 role :1laughter:

Author:  gooner7 [ Fri Jun 18, 2021 3:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum

Czech to beat Croatia

Author:  Zed [ Fri Jun 18, 2021 3:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum

Not certain if anyone knows the Brentford match is now scheduled for Friday, Aug 13 at 8 pm. Moved for live TV coverage.

Author:  Zed [ Fri Jun 18, 2021 4:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum

Rich wrote:
Spurs hunt for a new manager goes on
Nagelsmann, Rodgers, Flick, Ten Hag, Pochettino, Conte, Fonseca, Gattuso.....on to the next one. Scott Parker?

Avram Grant... :14laughter:

Author:  Zed [ Fri Jun 18, 2021 4:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum

Bernard wrote:
gooner7 wrote:
Likely nonsense writing. If true, hope Arsenal don't make the dumb decision to agree on this.

Emile Smith Rowe home grown, and has established himself as a trusted first-teamer. Much more driven player than almost the entire squad (something we need in abundance).

Ødegaard, I'm still not convinced he can make it happen for us. Pulls away from tackles too quickly. Not anywhere close to Özil, Cesc or Carzola level to warrant this swap.

I agree, it’s probably nonsense journalism and I wouldn’t want to lose Smith Rowe for Ødegaard either. But can’t you find ways to say that without slagging Ødegaard off? Ødegaard is an elite talent and potentially a truly elite player. I suspect that’s why Real Madrid, in my view the world’s biggest club, not only bought him but probably want to keep him. I bet he ends up achieving more in the game than Cazorla, sadly as I don’t see it being with Arsenal.

Bernard, somehow or other I just can't see Arteta fulfilling or bringing out Ødegaard's potential with us. He may die on the vine. Ancelotti favours him, so better he stays at RM.

Author:  Rich [ Fri Jun 18, 2021 4:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum

https://www.football.london/arsenal-fc/ ... g-20853048
Some positive news about Tierney and a potential new long term contract.

Hard not to like everything about Tierney, the only issue is that injury record. We need to have him playing 30+ prem games a season every season

Author:  Rich [ Fri Jun 18, 2021 4:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum

long time gooner wrote:
Rich wrote:
At school we had school issue rugby shirts that were reversible. plain on one side and hoops on the other. We'd spend half the lesson doing various rugby drills then half the lesson playing a match where half the class had to reverse their tops which were now nice and muddy. The feeling of putting the muddy side against your skin was not a nice one

Yuk. I can imagine that feeling still living with you.

Indeed. But strangely all good memories because I loved PE at school, any sport going.
When it came to picking the teams for the match the teacher used to line us up in a long line and go down the line 1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2 - all the 1's forma team vs all the 2's. We quickly cottoned on and used to grab a kid who was useless at sport and stick him between me and my mate - canny teacher was one step ahead though......1,2,1,1,2,2....haha

Author:  DHD [ Fri Jun 18, 2021 4:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum

Rich wrote:
long time gooner wrote:
I played no 4 for my primary school team.

That was right half in a 2-3-5 formation. And we played in heavy mens’ rugby shirts. And used dubbin on our boots.

At school we had school issue rugby shirts that were reversible. plain on one side and hoops on the other. We'd spend half the lesson doing various rugby drills then half the lesson playing a match where half the class had to reverse their tops which were now nice and muddy. The feeling of putting the muddy side against your skin was not a nice one


First 'organised' (I use that word loosely) game of football I played, the referee was a nun.

Author:  DHD [ Fri Jun 18, 2021 4:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum

Zed wrote:
Not certain if anyone knows the Brentford match is now scheduled for Friday, Aug 13 at 8 pm. Moved for live TV coverage.


Friday 13th

What could possibly go wrong?

Author:  long time gooner [ Fri Jun 18, 2021 4:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum

Zed wrote:
Not certain if anyone knows the Brentford match is now scheduled for Friday, Aug 13 at 8 pm. Moved for live TV coverage.

That didn’t take long did it? In fact all of our first three league fixtures have changed.

And there is the second round of the Carabao Cup to look forward to.

Author:  gooner7 [ Fri Jun 18, 2021 7:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum

Stones header hits the upright.

Author:  Bernard [ Fri Jun 18, 2021 7:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum

long time gooner wrote:
Zed wrote:
Not certain if anyone knows the Brentford match is now scheduled for Friday, Aug 13 at 8 pm. Moved for live TV coverage.

That didn’t take long did it? In fact all of our first three league fixtures have changed.

And there is the second round of the Carabao Cup to look forward to.

At least we’re still getting shown on telly.

Author:  long time gooner [ Fri Jun 18, 2021 8:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum

There is that.

Author:  long time gooner [ Fri Jun 18, 2021 8:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum

What a surprisingly dull low quality game so far.

Author:  Zed [ Fri Jun 18, 2021 8:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum

DHD wrote:
Zed wrote:
Not certain if anyone knows the Brentford match is now scheduled for Friday, Aug 13 at 8 pm. Moved for live TV coverage.


Friday 13th

What could possibly go wrong?

Maybe not much.

Author:  Zed [ Fri Jun 18, 2021 8:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum

Bernard wrote:
long time gooner wrote:
That didn’t take long did it? In fact all of our first three league fixtures have changed.

And there is the second round of the Carabao Cup to look forward to.

At least we’re still getting shown on telly.


Better than nothing.

Author:  DHD [ Fri Jun 18, 2021 8:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum

Well that’s 2 hours of my life I won’t get back.

Author:  Bernard [ Fri Jun 18, 2021 8:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum

long time gooner wrote:
What a surprisingly dull low quality game so far.

Watched a fair bit of the second half (very little of the first) but from what I did see, I thought Scotland deserved their point. Delighted for them, as at least they still have a chance of qualifying.

Author:  Lincoln gooner [ Fri Jun 18, 2021 9:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum

Bernard wrote:
long time gooner wrote:
What a surprisingly dull low quality game so far.

Watched a fair bit of the second half (very little of the first) but from what I did see, I thought Scotland deserved their point. Delighted for them, as at least they still have a chance of qualifying.

Scotland deserve a lot of credit for that performance and it wouldn't have flattered them if they'd nicked a winner. England will have to up their game significantly to have any chance of going deep into the tournament. I agree with Graham Souness when he said that you need to replace either Rice or Phillips in the England midfield with someone more creative.

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