Fixtures Sunday December 8th - Fulham - Craven Cottage - 2:00 Pm

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Post #393641  Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2024 7:46 pm 
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https://x.com/ThatGooner/status/1841528677038780803

Look at 50 seconds in this clip, this is the Ben White to Saka signature pass but done on the left side for Martinelli. I rarely see Martinelli receive the ball like this and drive inside on to his stronger foot. He was able to do it here because Trossard pulled wide to the touchline to release him inside. Xhaka used to go to the touchline a lot in his relationship with Martinelli - a kind of Zinchenko inverted, Xhaka pushing out, martinelli coming inside and sometimes swapping places with Jesus who moved wide. More of this kind of movement and interchanging positions on the left side thing will release Martinelli again I think. Ødegaard rarely drifts left and White doesn't invert like our left side typically does - so the set up on the right is pretty good for getting Saka in dangerous zones. Trossard favours that left side so with him in the floating 8/10 role he can help Martinelli


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Post #393642  Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2024 8:05 pm 
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dec wrote:
Decaf wrote:


At least Martinelli is getting into the right positions and making better decisions. I'm hopeful that our left side is on the up as is his finishing. He's a big weapon for us potentially.

Jesus on the other hand ... someone needs to tell him there is more than one way of impressing. Hogging the ball and running into blind alleys isn't one of them.

Jesus is playing like a 10 year old. His football intelligence is on the floor at the moment. I wonder if his sparkling form when he first joined was just a purple patch. He was always only OK at City.

I have no idea what’s happened to him but he was decent at city. I mean he scored 73 goals for them in the premier league. Maybe his injury affected his confidence. When he joined he was a bonafide threat but seemed to be able harness his ability more realistically than now.

Yesterday he tried to beat 3 men rather than taking the ball to the corner to try and nick a touch off one of them. He’s playing like his only objective is to achieve something spectacular that catapults him back into everyone’s thoughts. It’s not going to happen and even Trossard is a better option to start up front.

His contract expires in 2027 and whilst next summer could be key it feels to me like a Thomas Partey situation where we would probably sell if we got the right offer but that won’t come as he’s on 200k a week and nobody will touch that with a bargepole.


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Post #393643  Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2024 8:09 pm 
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grantyboy wrote:
Decaf wrote:
Havertz man of the match for me.


Deservedly he got it. The outlet he provided for longer balls into midfield and he won nearly all of them. Huge effort to keep leaping like that for 90 mins and also his hold up play was excellent. Brilliant performance.

Rest of the team equally hard working and held their shape so well. Kiwior did well considering he's had so little game time. Minor disappointment was Jesus who seems to be sulking a bit and didn't put in much effort even though he had the fresh legs.

Shay Given in the comments after match. "I'm still yet to be convinced until they win some silverware". So easy to be the contrarian. Mug.

:14laughter:

What’s odd is that it’s coming from Given who won *%^@ all apart from being an FA cup runner up twice to us. Thanks Shay !


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Post #393644  Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2024 5:45 am 
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Spurs fans putting van der ven up there as the best CB in the league….im actually a big vdv fan, I think he’s really good and has the attributes you want from a CB being asked to play for a high press attacking top team….but they’re putting him there based on a couple of barnstorming runs and assists, asking if other clubs CB can do this. It’s like saying Chris Wood is the best striker in the league because he made two amazing goal line clearances.
Saliba, Gabriel, Van Dijk, Dias, Stones, Akanji all better currently


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Post #393645  Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2024 6:06 am 
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I keep seeing people suggest football should have a challenge system for ref decisions, 1 per half, or 1 per game by the manager/captain and you retain it if you’re right. The problems with this are: can you challenge any decision? If you can then the game will become very stop start. Other sports with challenges that work well are tennis and cricket which have natural pauses in play at regular known points.
If you limit the challenges to goals, red cards and penalties - which would seem sensible - well those are the exact things that are already checked by var. so you can challenge a decision made by the ref and backed up by var….who is then doing the further review on that to see if your challenge can be upheld?
I’m just not sure how the challenge system works in football


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Post #393646  Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2024 7:13 am 
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Rich wrote:
I keep seeing people suggest football should have a challenge system for ref decisions, 1 per half, or 1 per game by the manager/captain and you retain it if you’re right. The problems with this are: can you challenge any decision? If you can then the game will become very stop start. Other sports with challenges that work well are tennis and cricket which have natural pauses in play at regular known points.
If you limit the challenges to goals, red cards and penalties - which would seem sensible - well those are the exact things that are already checked by var. so you can challenge a decision made by the ref and backed up by var….who is then doing the further review on that to see if your challenge can be upheld?
I’m just not sure how the challenge system works in football


Yellow cards are the biggest issue that var is currently not addressing. Players getting sent off when one or both of the yellows was not warranted, while other players get away with much worse, is a big problem.

If the challenge came from the manager (which would make sense as the manager would be able to review the replay), it could be assessed by the VAR officials while the game proceeded. If upheld, this could be communicated to the ref at the next stoppage of play.

That doesn't lead to stop start, just as checking for potential straight reds which the ref didn't see doesn't.

Having it as a challenge that you retain if right, rather than at the discretion of VAR would work well. Refs wouldn't be able to get away for 'letting the game flow' rubbish, or not giving yellows for things there is a directive for, etc.

Its a bit tricker than cricket, where decisions are far less subjective. But that is besides the point, which is to correct clear and obvious mistakes. Don't use you challenge unless you are sure or it is a massively consequential decision.

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Post #393647  Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2024 8:02 am 
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I reckon Kudus at West Ham and the two Villa boys Morgan Rodgers and Jhon Duran are players who could potentially improve us.

PL ready as well but I am guessing you are looking at well north of £50m for any of them. .


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Post #393648  Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2024 8:17 am 
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So much to like about Arsenal’s defensive structure and off the ball work and a big part of that is I think we have the hardest working wingers in the league. The work Martinelli and Saka get through making sure they are back helping the defence is incredible.


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Post #393649  Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2024 8:19 am 
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socrates wrote:
I reckon Kudus at West Ham and the two Villa boys Morgan Rodgers and Jhon Duran are players who could potentially improve us.

PL ready as well but I am guessing you are looking at well north of £50m for any of them. .

There are strong rumours that if we’d managed to move on Nketiah last summer that Kudus was the one we were after but couldn’t get there because of FFP rules. He won’t stay at West Ham for long


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Post #393650  Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2024 9:13 am 
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Yes the suggestion was we wanted to pay 75-90 million for Rice and sign Kudus as well but West Ham inflated the Rice fee so we couldn’t and instead opted to pursue a low cost upgrade of our keeper that was FFP compliant.

Kudus honestly looks a Arteta Prototype player and would be perfect for us. Would cost a fortune now though. Feels like that ship has sailed


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Post #393651  Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2024 9:23 am 
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Man Utd 0-2 up at Porto, collapse and go 3-2 down then sneak an equaliser. Fernandes gets another red for trying to leave his boot in the face of the opponent in a high tackle. Always has been a dirty player so glad to see him getting some attention finally. Sadly Ten Hag's time is coming to an end.


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Post #393652  Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2024 9:24 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
grantyboy wrote:

Deservedly he got it. The outlet he provided for longer balls into midfield and he won nearly all of them. Huge effort to keep leaping like that for 90 mins and also his hold up play was excellent. Brilliant performance.

Rest of the team equally hard working and held their shape so well. Kiwior did well considering he's had so little game time. Minor disappointment was Jesus who seems to be sulking a bit and didn't put in much effort even though he had the fresh legs.

Shay Given in the comments after match. "I'm still yet to be convinced until they win some silverware". So easy to be the contrarian. Mug.

:14laughter:

What’s odd is that it’s coming from Given who won *%^@ all apart from being an FA cup runner up twice to us. Thanks Shay !


Exactly what I thought. Hilarious. And he's still a mug. :laughing7:


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Post #393653  Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2024 10:31 am 
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This is interesting from the laws of the game on advantage.
If I'm reading this correctly, refs can play advantage for a yellow card tackle and come back and book the player - all sensible so far.
But, if the ref has played advantage for stopping a promising attack the player is NOT yellow carded. ok - but what if that booking would have been a second yellow card and therefore a red - would you rather have your 'promising attack' or your opponent down to 10 men?

The only caveat is where the laws say advantage should not be played where a second yellow card should be given but only if that yellow card worthy foul denies a clear goal scoring opportunity.

So as I read it, you can be on a yellow card and commit a second yellow card offence to try to stop a promising attack but if the ref decides to play advantage then the opponent doesn't get sent off. Surely as a team you'd prefer to play v 10 men over almost anything apart from a certain goal


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Post #393654  Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2024 10:47 am 
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https://x.com/adamkeys_/status/1842102983594561710

Emery's last game - look at the swathes of empty seats. The fans had given up.

These constant Emery/Arteta comparisons when Emery gets a good result never come to any rational conclusion and lose all the context.
Emery was dealt an impossible task following wenger, he had a mess upstairs and he appeared to have little say in the signings.
Emery also had us playing some awful stuff towards the end, unable to control games and giving up so many shots per game.
We'll never know if Emery could have turned it round, same as any sacked manager but it was 100% the correct decision at the time.
Emery went away rebuilt himself and became a better coach and came back to England and has done a brilliant job with Villa
Emery failed with PSG and Arsenal. Emery success has come with teams that sit below the established elite big teams.
Arsenal fans bear no ill will to Emery
Arteta has done an incredible job turning Arsenal round
Arsenal are a better team than Villa


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Post #393655  Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2024 12:38 pm 
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Timber not in the dutch squad for the International break - that's a good thing as his load needs to be managed.
Merino is in the spain squad - conversely this could be good for us to allow him to build up some match sharpness and fitness with spain

Arteta said Timber is being monitored ahead of the weekend, and Tomiyasu and Ben White are close. Zinchenko will be back after the international break.

I wouldn't mind seeing a bit of rotation but suspect Arteta won't rotate much.
Raya, Calafiori, Gabriel, Saliba + whoever is deemed the fittest from Timber, White, Tomiyasu in that order.
A possible opportunity to rest Partey and bring Jorginho in? I don't think we'll start Merino just yet
Saka and Havertz will start. I think Arteta will find it hard to leave Trossard out considering how crucial he's been as the Ødegaard replacement but I'd love to see Nwaneri given a start, we'll have loads of the ball and he can take risks in areas that don't effect the defensive side. His cameo v Leicester taking responsibility and driving at the defence was very good.
Then its the left side of the team, Martinelli has got some confidence so Arteta may keep him going but Sterling is waiting and ready


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Post #393656  Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2024 12:52 pm 
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Rich wrote:
https://x.com/adamkeys_/status/1842102983594561710

Emery's last game - look at the swathes of empty seats. The fans had given up.

These constant Emery/Arteta comparisons when Emery gets a good result never come to any rational conclusion and lose all the context.
Emery was dealt an impossible task following wenger, he had a mess upstairs and he appeared to have little say in the signings.
Emery also had us playing some awful stuff towards the end, unable to control games and giving up so many shots per game.
We'll never know if Emery could have turned it round, same as any sacked manager but it was 100% the correct decision at the time.
Emery went away rebuilt himself and became a better coach and came back to England and has done a brilliant job with Villa
Emery failed with PSG and Arsenal. Emery success has come with teams that sit below the established elite big teams.
Arsenal fans bear no ill will to Emery
Arteta has done an incredible job turning Arsenal round
Arsenal are a better team than Villa

Incredible clip really.

People had given up. You can’t charge 1300 quid for a season ticket and still nobody turning up. That’s a serious entertainment budget every 12 months.

Hard just to blame that on Emery. Years of apathy had set in at that point and the same thing was happening at the end of wenger. The Emery debate is boring, he’s a decent manager but any manager was going to fail after Arsene.

Wenger plus the kroenkes until that point was a match made in hell designed for complacency. I think Arteta has come in and simply said he wouldn’t tolerate certain things and we have to be ruthless. I think Stanley has got so lucky with Mikel as until his appointment there wasn’t a shred of evidence he was fit to run a football club in the premier league


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Post #393657  Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2024 2:47 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Timber not in the dutch squad for the International break - that's a good thing as his load needs to be managed.
Merino is in the spain squad - conversely this could be good for us to allow him to build up some match sharpness and fitness with spain

Arteta said Timber is being monitored ahead of the weekend, and Tomiyasu and Ben White are close. Zinchenko will be back after the international break.

I wouldn't mind seeing a bit of rotation but suspect Arteta won't rotate much.
Raya, Calafiori, Gabriel, Saliba + whoever is deemed the fittest from Timber, White, Tomiyasu in that order.
A possible opportunity to rest Partey and bring Jorginho in? I don't think we'll start Merino just yet
Saka and Havertz will start. I think Arteta will find it hard to leave Trossard out considering how crucial he's been as the Ødegaard replacement but I'd love to see Nwaneri given a start, we'll have loads of the ball and he can take risks in areas that don't effect the defensive side. His cameo v Leicester taking responsibility and driving at the defence was very good.
Then its the left side of the team, Martinelli has got some confidence so Arteta may keep him going but Sterling is waiting and ready

I'm sure he'll go full strength, unless anyone is actually injured, given the break. Even basement teams like Stn can't be taken lightly. It would be lovely if we could get a good lead and give Nwaneri some good minutes, but I think easing him in slowly is the way to go. Even more so with Sterling and Jesus, who haven't done enough to warrant a start.

Trossard is finding his mojo in that false 10 position of whatever it is, and needs to keep playing. He seems to be improving from game to game. Likewise Martinelli. I really want to see that same left side against Southampton. Hopefully White or Timber will be available at right back.

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Post #393658  Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2024 2:49 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Rich wrote:
https://x.com/adamkeys_/status/1842102983594561710

Emery's last game - look at the swathes of empty seats. The fans had given up.

These constant Emery/Arteta comparisons when Emery gets a good result never come to any rational conclusion and lose all the context.
Emery was dealt an impossible task following wenger, he had a mess upstairs and he appeared to have little say in the signings.
Emery also had us playing some awful stuff towards the end, unable to control games and giving up so many shots per game.
We'll never know if Emery could have turned it round, same as any sacked manager but it was 100% the correct decision at the time.
Emery went away rebuilt himself and became a better coach and came back to England and has done a brilliant job with Villa
Emery failed with PSG and Arsenal. Emery success has come with teams that sit below the established elite big teams.
Arsenal fans bear no ill will to Emery
Arteta has done an incredible job turning Arsenal round
Arsenal are a better team than Villa

Incredible clip really.

People had given up. You can’t charge 1300 quid for a season ticket and still nobody turning up. That’s a serious entertainment budget every 12 months.

Hard just to blame that on Emery. Years of apathy had set in at that point and the same thing was happening at the end of wenger. The Emery debate is boring, he’s a decent manager but any manager was going to fail after Arsene.

Wenger plus the kroenkes until that point was a match made in hell designed for complacency. I think Arteta has come in and simply said he wouldn’t tolerate certain things and we have to be ruthless. I think Stanley has got so lucky with Mikel as until his appointment there wasn’t a shred of evidence he was fit to run a football club in the premier league

It is pretty incredible how good Arteta has been. Emery is a decent manager but Arteta is special. It is surreal considering where we were a few years ago that we are now actually bookies' favourite to win the EPL. I thought we would do well to get back into the CL, considering the strength of the top 6 in the EPL.

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Post #393659  Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2024 7:14 pm 
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Decaf wrote:
Rich wrote:
Timber not in the dutch squad for the International break - that's a good thing as his load needs to be managed.
Merino is in the spain squad - conversely this could be good for us to allow him to build up some match sharpness and fitness with spain

Arteta said Timber is being monitored ahead of the weekend, and Tomiyasu and Ben White are close. Zinchenko will be back after the international break.

I wouldn't mind seeing a bit of rotation but suspect Arteta won't rotate much.
Raya, Calafiori, Gabriel, Saliba + whoever is deemed the fittest from Timber, White, Tomiyasu in that order.
A possible opportunity to rest Partey and bring Jorginho in? I don't think we'll start Merino just yet
Saka and Havertz will start. I think Arteta will find it hard to leave Trossard out considering how crucial he's been as the Ødegaard replacement but I'd love to see Nwaneri given a start, we'll have loads of the ball and he can take risks in areas that don't effect the defensive side. His cameo v Leicester taking responsibility and driving at the defence was very good.
Then its the left side of the team, Martinelli has got some confidence so Arteta may keep him going but Sterling is waiting and ready

I'm sure he'll go full strength, unless anyone is actually injured, given the break. Even basement teams like Stn can't be taken lightly. It would be lovely if we could get a good lead and give Nwaneri some good minutes, but I think easing him in slowly is the way to go. Even more so with Sterling and Jesus, who haven't done enough to warrant a start.

Trossard is finding his mojo in that false 10 position of whatever it is, and needs to keep playing. He seems to be improving from game to game. Likewise Martinelli. I really want to see that same left side against Southampton. Hopefully White or Timber will be available at right back.


Thing is if you aren't going to start Jesus and Jorginho against Saints at home when will you play them.

i think he might rotate for this one but everytime you expect him to he plays more first teamers than you expect. Surely Sterling, Jesus and Jorginho can cover this one.


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Post #393660  Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2024 5:55 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Decaf wrote:
I'm sure he'll go full strength, unless anyone is actually injured, given the break. Even basement teams like Stn can't be taken lightly. It would be lovely if we could get a good lead and give Nwaneri some good minutes, but I think easing him in slowly is the way to go. Even more so with Sterling and Jesus, who haven't done enough to warrant a start.

Trossard is finding his mojo in that false 10 position of whatever it is, and needs to keep playing. He seems to be improving from game to game. Likewise Martinelli. I really want to see that same left side against Southampton. Hopefully White or Timber will be available at right back.


Thing is if you aren't going to start Jesus and Jorginho against Saints at home when will you play them.

i think he might rotate for this one but everytime you expect him to he plays more first teamers than you expect. Surely Sterling, Jesus and Jorginho can cover this one.

Its a difficult one. This is indeed the ideal opportunity. But you can see why he may feel like that is taking too much of a risk, even against Southampton. None of those players has exactly shone this season or fills one with confidence.

Perhaps there is an element of overcaution following from the Leicester scare and that dreadful 3-3 result last time we played Southampton at home. Our home record against Southampton is otherwise spectacular and they are pretty crap.

I nevertheless expect that Arteta will field our strongest possible team, with the aim of putting the game to bed asap and then bringing on the fringe players.

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Post #393661  Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2024 8:22 am 
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Saka must be rested.

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Post #393662  Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2024 12:06 pm 
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Looking a bit ominous for Palace against Liverpool. Eddie working hard but Liverpool utterly dominating. If I had to put money on a result I’d be going 4-0 Liverpool.

I’ve been waiting for their easier run of fixtures to end and to start dropping points. Palace away last year was a really tricky fixture but they look bereft of confidence and quality atm.


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Post #393663  Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2024 12:15 pm 
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Ash wrote:
Looking a bit ominous for Palace against Liverpool. Eddie working hard but Liverpool utterly dominating. If I had to put money on a result I’d be going 4-0 Liverpool.

I’ve been waiting for their easier run of fixtures to end and to start dropping points. Palace away last year was a really tricky fixture but they look bereft of confidence and quality atm.

Liverpool are in the title race for sure.


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Post #393664  Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2024 12:39 pm 
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If White and Timber are out, I wonder if we'll see Partey at right-back? Not a bad option considering.

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Post #393665  Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2024 12:56 pm 
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yeah thought so, If you don’t do it now then when will you


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Post #393666  Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2024 12:59 pm 
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Lincoln gooner wrote:
Ash wrote:
Looking a bit ominous for Palace against Liverpool. Eddie working hard but Liverpool utterly dominating. If I had to put money on a result I’d be going 4-0 Liverpool.

I’ve been waiting for their easier run of fixtures to end and to start dropping points. Palace away last year was a really tricky fixture but they look bereft of confidence and quality atm.

Liverpool are in the title race for sure.


They're pretty slick in attack but Palace have been able to get through their midfield easily at times. Only problem is the rest of Palace's game has been god awful. I've lost count of how many terrible passes they've made. Nketiah is far too slow in his reactions and doesn't read what's going to happen but reacts late and is always a step behind the play. Can see why we were ok to let him go.

If Palace actually wake up I think they might get something.


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Post #393667  Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2024 1:05 pm 
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Gaz from Oz wrote:
Saka must be rested.


I agree with the sentiment but who were you thinking to deputise?


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Post #393668  Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2024 1:11 pm 
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Palace denied a clear peno. One forumite here would be incandescent if we were denied such a penalty. Liverpool hanging on a bit.

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Post #393669  Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2024 1:14 pm 
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oh my dear god. Eze!! FFS


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Post #393670  Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2024 1:47 pm 
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Any decent links?


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Post #393671  Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2024 1:58 pm 
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grantyboy wrote:
Gaz from Oz wrote:
Saka must be rested.


I agree with the sentiment but who were you thinking to deputise?

Yeah, I would have preferred Saka to be the one rested, since he'll probably be flogged to death by England too. Martinelli could do with a confidence boosting goal or two.

But Arteta clearly doesn't like to drop Saka, and who can blame him?

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Post #393672  Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2024 1:59 pm 
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Good to see Tomiyasu on the bench. Hope Jesus gets himself a goal.


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Post #393673  Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2024 2:01 pm 
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And welcome back Rambo.


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Post #393674  Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2024 2:09 pm 
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Wow. Jesus has to do better there.

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Post #393675  Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2024 2:30 pm 
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Fulham lead at City.


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Post #393676  Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2024 2:30 pm 
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C'mon Fulham...........


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Post #393677  Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2024 2:33 pm 
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This is getting a bit frustrating.


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Post #393678  Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2024 2:34 pm 
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And City level.


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Post #393679  Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2024 2:50 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 12:06 am
Posts: 17002

A bit sterile after the opening flurry. None of the forwards are playing badly, but with Saka nullified we lack that creative spark.

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Post #393680  Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2024 2:51 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 2:55 pm
Posts: 11847
Location: Singapore

Jesus and Sterling ineffective

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