Fixtures March 31st - Manchester City - Etihad Stadium - 3:30 Pm

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Post #535121  Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 9:54 am 
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old man of hoy wrote:
Interesting story about Law - before he joined Manchester City in 1960 there was much expectation that he would join Arsenal. Law visited Highbury and was impressed but decided to join City instead. In his book The King, he explained why. ‘It looked for a while as though I was going to Arsenal, who were like the Real Madrid of English football at that time. I had been to London a couple of times with Scotland: it was a big city, and Arsenal were a huge club. I had travelled down with Tommy Docherty who took me round the ground and pointed out the underfloor heating in the dressing-room, and the marble floors and statues in the foyer, and when I saw all that, Arsenal was the club I was going to, no doubt at all! But – and I’m ashamed to admit it, because looking back now it was very childish of me – one of the main reasons I didn’t go to Highbury was that they sent their assistant manager to talk to me about the move instead of George Swindin himself.

Interesting that Denis Law presumably didn’t think we were, to quote Pode, a “middling club with an ancient history and marble halls. Swindin and Wright were dismally dire managers.” Law seems to put Swindin not going to meet him as the reason he didn’t join. I’m not denying Swindin was a poor or even ‘dismally dire’ manager. He was before my time. But Law said Arsenal “were like the Real Madrid of English football at the time.”

If Pode reads this, I suspect the reason we’re not agreeing is differences in definitions more than me starting my support prior to the success in the early seventies. The mid-seventies was the closest I’ve seen Arsenal get to being relegated.

I don’t think you have to be top of the league to be a top club, or even near it. When Manchester United were relegated I still, unlike you who thought they became middling, saw them as a top club. In my view top clubs aren’t defined by the quality of their current team. As I said, for me getting relegated didn’t turn them into a middling club. Even in the lower division (and they did come straight back up, as Tottenham did when they were relegated) I perceived them as a top club.

To use an analogy, Celtic and Rangers are surely and undeniably the top clubs in Scotland. Even when Rangers were relegated to the bottom tier of Scotland’s league tier for financial irregularities, I still considered them one of Scotland’s two top clubs.

I’ve enjoyed this debate and hope you have. I suspect our disagreement has more to do with using differing definitions of words than anything.


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Post #535122  Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 10:25 am 
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socrates wrote:
Rich wrote:
Give the first 3 games and the pressure Arsenal and Arteta are under he couldn't have hand picked a better fixture to break the bad run. Norwich at home.

At the moment any win will do - but to really restore a degree of confidence a comfortable win would be very much needed. A squeaky 2-1 surviving some late long balls in the box would keep the wolf from the door but wouldn't inspire confidence.

3-0 please Arsenal


Hi Rich,

I may be in the minority here but I don't want to see a scrappy or lucky win. I want to see at the very least the seedlings of an expansive and exciting style of play that creates chances and some moments that thrill the crowd.

I am fed up with this boring, aimless, sideways possession game that hits the buffers as soon as we enter the final third of the pitch.


I'll join in the minority camp

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Post #535123  Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 10:46 am 
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It’s kind of weird but I’ve really been looking forward to today’s game for a while now. It feels special for a number of different reasons. COYR.

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Post #535124  Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 11:20 am 
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Bernard wrote:
Interesting that Denis Law presumably didn’t think we were, to quote Pode, a “middling club with an ancient history and marble halls.


Law was coming from Huddersfield with all its Chapman connections. He may have been very impressed with marble halls - after all it was still the era of the wage cap and footballer wages not much higher than the national average. Chapman knew who he wanted to impress.

My father had told me all about the marble halls, but I never saw them and they didn't impress me much. No shortage of marble in cemeteries.

Bernard wrote:
I’ve enjoyed this debate and hope you have. I suspect our disagreement has more to do with using differing definitions of words than anything.

I enjoy debate and I can be as pernickety as the next man. :58big-emoticons:


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Post #535125  Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 11:26 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
If you can’t get excited about the first game this season when we can actually field a decent side you need to find another hobby.

I feel this.
I'd expected the same for Brentford, but that went out of the window when I saw the absentees. And we have a fuller squad now.


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Post #535126  Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 11:29 am 
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Pode wrote:
Bernard wrote:
Interesting that Denis Law presumably didn’t think we were, to quote Pode, a “middling club with an ancient history and marble halls.


Law was coming from Huddersfield with all its Chapman connections. He may have been very impressed with marble halls - after all it was still the era of the wage cap and footballer wages not much higher than the national average. Chapman knew who he wanted to impress.

My father had told me all about the marble halls, but I never saw them and they didn't impress me much. No shortage of marble in cemeteries.

Bernard wrote:
I’ve enjoyed this debate and hope you have. I suspect our disagreement has more to do with using differing definitions of words than anything.

I enjoy debate and I can be as pernickety as the next man. :58big-emoticons:

I finally got to see the marble halls etc as Highbury was coming to an end. They had a fans day and I took the opportunity to see around the inside. It was surprisingly unimpressive. A bit like a dowdy town hall.

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Post #535127  Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 11:44 am 
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socrates wrote:
I may be in the minority here but I don't want to see a scrappy or lucky win. I want to see at the very least the seedlings of an expansive and exciting style of play that creates chances and some moments that thrill the crowd.

I don't care much about the score, so long as we win.

I do care about style, but modern styles aren't often exhilerating. ManC, Chelsea and Liverpool all worse than ManU for this - most of the time. It's tiki-taka cautious and shrunk.

What I'd most like to see this season is the growth of real leadership on the pitch. All the pundits seem to be talking about our senior players having to stand up and show it, but we've learned it's not in most of them, so it will have to be down to new signings and therefore take time to develop. It's my impression that was one of the main reasons for signing White. Lokonga has often been captain, so hopefully leadership potential there too. I'd like to see Ramsdale play too because communication is likely to be part of it. Haven't seen much sign of it at the front, but they're all young (bar Aubameyang and Lacazette) and none of them established as core.
Maybe Tierney will have more impact across the team. Maybe Xhaka will be calmer in a more settled side. Maybe Partey will lead if he's on the field more often.


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Post #535128  Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 12:38 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
If you can’t get excited about the first game this season when we can actually field a decent side you need to find another hobby. It’s time look elsewhere.

How about darts ? A load of fatties throwing arrows and hitting the dartboard every single time it’s ace ! Your never let down it’s a sure thing.


You don't half talk some bollocks TG :laughing7:


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Post #535129  Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 12:55 pm 
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socrates wrote:
I want to see at the very least the seedlings of an expansive and exciting style of play that creates chances and some moments that thrill the crowd.

I am fed up with this boring, aimless, sideways possession game that hits the buffers as soon as we enter the final third of the pitch.

I was reading about the US tennis final. Fernandez style was described as nearly all percentage shots, moving opponents around and then going for the occasional winner. It's years since I watched a tennis match, but that sounds exactly like the modern style of top-end football to me.


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Post #535130  Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 12:56 pm 
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long time gooner wrote:
It’s kind of weird but I’ve really been looking forward to today’s game for a while now. It feels special for a number of different reasons. COYR.

So today I'm certain we'll either win, lose or draw. There's no way we'll sink lower in the table.

Follow me for more tips.
#Psychic!


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Post #535131  Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 1:03 pm 
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socrates wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
If you can’t get excited about the first game this season when we can actually field a decent side you need to find another hobby. It’s time look elsewhere.

How about darts ? A load of fatties throwing arrows and hitting the dartboard every single time it’s ace ! Your never let down it’s a sure thing.


You don't half talk some bollocks TG :laughing7:

:laughing7:


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Post #535132  Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 1:06 pm 
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Hmmmn the midfield 2

If he’s not ready then he’s not ready I guess


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Post #535133  Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 1:14 pm 
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AMN in midfield. That's where he likes to play so this is his chance.

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Post #535134  Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 1:15 pm 
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old man of hoy wrote:
Yes it could have been different, but all credit to United for coming back so well from the Munich disaster, which could have so easily sunk them. As a comparison when the great Torino team was destroyed in the 1949 air crash, they had a similar domestic record of achievement as United, but they never came back as strong - just one Serie A title and three Italian Cups in the 70+ years that followed. United rebuilt, and hard as it may be to imagine now, in the late 50s into the 60s there was widespread respect for their recovery amongst rival fans. By the late 60s of course tribalism in English football became far more rampant than it had been, and as far as Arsenal and United were concerned reached its low point in the Premiership years. Difficult to like United over the past 30 years, but not so in the period we are talking about.

The other thing that has changed a lot since 1963 is player committment to a club. Certainly relegation would not have seen Bobby Charlton leave United, nor Denis Law I think, who came to love United.

Interesting story about Law - before he joined Manchester City in 1960 there was much expectation that he would join Arsenal. Law visited Highbury and was impressed but decided to join City instead. In his book The King, he explained why. ‘It looked for a while as though I was going to Arsenal, who were like the Real Madrid of English football at that time. I had been to London a couple of times with Scotland: it was a big city, and Arsenal were a huge club. I had travelled down with Tommy Docherty who took me round the ground and pointed out the underfloor heating in the dressing-room, and the marble floors and statues in the foyer, and when I saw all that, Arsenal was the club I was going to, no doubt at all! But – and I’m ashamed to admit it, because looking back now it was very childish of me – one of the main reasons I didn’t go to Highbury was that they sent their assistant manager to talk to me about the move instead of George Swindin himself. I took it as a slight, and that’s why I find my reaction embarrassing now, because one thing I’m certainly not is big-headed. And you know who the assistant manager was? Ron Greenwood, who went on to become the brilliant manager of West Ham United and England.’ Law subsequently went to Italy - Torino - and after that United.


It's these kinds of stories that makes the forum unique and special and have me going to google and youtube.

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Post #535135  Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 1:16 pm 
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PV4 with 2 up for CP at home. Poor Spurs. :14laughter:

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Post #535136  Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 1:22 pm 
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Easy to see why Palace went for Edouard rather than Eddie


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Post #535137  Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 1:25 pm 
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Pode wrote:
socrates wrote:
I want to see at the very least the seedlings of an expansive and exciting style of play that creates chances and some moments that thrill the crowd.

I am fed up with this boring, aimless, sideways possession game that hits the buffers as soon as we enter the final third of the pitch.

I was reading about the US tennis final. Fernandez style was described as nearly all percentage shots, moving opponents around and then going for the occasional winner. It's years since I watched a tennis match, but that sounds exactly like the modern style of top-end football to me.


Hi Pode,

Womens tennis is generally pretty boring, a lot of matches only lasting two sets and the depth in the women's game seems quite poor. Serena Williams got away with being a relative part-timer for many years and was still highly competitive.

Emma Raducanu's is an amazing story but I believe she has not had to play any of the real top players on route to the final (not her fault as you can only play whoever is in the tournament and progresses through) and even her final opponent is a qualifier.


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Post #535138  Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 1:30 pm 
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socrates wrote:
Pode wrote:
I was reading about the US tennis final. Fernandez style was described as nearly all percentage shots, moving opponents around and then going for the occasional winner. It's years since I watched a tennis match, but that sounds exactly like the modern style of top-end football to me.




Emma Raducanu's is an amazing story but I believe she has not had to play any of the real top players on route to the final (not her fault as you can only play whoever is in the tournament and progresses through) and even her final opponent is a qualifier.


darts mate … I’m telling you DARTS. It’s a sure thing for you every time

It’s like the fat people Olympics ! They may as well call it “fat people going crazy” you’re going to love it. Enjoy TG


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Post #535139  Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 1:35 pm 
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socrates wrote:
even her final opponent is a qualifier.

Young, but I don't think Fernandez was a qualifier.


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Post #535140  Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 1:50 pm 
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Looks like a back 3 with AMN and Tierney as wing backs.


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Post #535141  Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 2:03 pm 
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and they're off !
:22encouragement:


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Post #535142  Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 2:06 pm 
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I hope I don't regret my last post.............


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Post #535143  Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 2:09 pm 
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Thanks bubblechris. I'm going to give it a whirl.
I quite like the look of our lineup today. Touch wood!

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Post #535144  Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 2:10 pm 
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White and Tomiyasu aweswome.


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Post #535145  Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 2:12 pm 
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Bugga there goes my picture :20hospitals:


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Post #535146  Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 2:23 pm 
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I like Tomiyasu already

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Post #535147  Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 2:23 pm 
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Aubameyang set up by Odwgaard but blocked


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Post #535148  Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 2:29 pm 
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Ramsdale so strong. Took balls for Arteta to play him.


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Post #535149  Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 2:39 pm 
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Crap freekick from Oliver. To think I used to like him.


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Post #535150  Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 2:43 pm 
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Excellent team play from us. Norwich getting stronger. I'm worrying now :8surprise:


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Post #535151  Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 2:45 pm 
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Wow we got a free kick


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Post #535152  Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 2:47 pm 
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We need a goal badly. Norwich looking more and more comfortable.


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Post #535153  Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 2:49 pm 
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Tomiyasu first half mom performance


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Post #535154  Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 2:54 pm 
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Ronaldo gets the only 3pm ko goal


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Post #535155  Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 3:15 pm 
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Back to the Radio


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Post #535156  Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 3:16 pm 
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13 attempts still only 1 on target.

Desperately need a goal


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Post #535157  Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 3:17 pm 
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bubblechris wrote:
Back to the Radio

I’ve just moved from iPad to PC and got your 175% thing working. Much better.

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Post #535158  Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 3:18 pm 
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I'm pc only


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Post #535159  Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 3:20 pm 
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Emile Smith Rowe on?


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Post #535160  Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 3:20 pm 
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Partey on for Lokonga. Smith Rowe on for Tomiyasu. AMN to right back - Partey holding the midfield on his won it seems


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