Fixtures March 31st - Manchester City - Etihad Stadium - 3:30 Pm

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Post #536161  Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2021 9:49 pm 
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Almost afraid to admit I watched the WSL game live. I enjoyed it though.


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Post #536162  Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2021 9:57 pm 
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socrates wrote:
Bernard wrote:
To be fair socrates, Arteta has spent £90m on our three central midfielders today (Partey £45m, Lokonga £15m, Ødegaard £30m) in the last twelve months. I think it’s reasonable to say he has addressed that area of the pitch.

I was talking about changing something in today's game. I thought our midfield was poor and failed to function as it needed to to give us a proper foothold in the game. Partey, Ødegaard and Lokonga were all pretty poor for most of the game.

If Partey, Ødegaard and Lokonga were all poor, what options were there? AMN? Elneny? I don't see that myself. Never easy for a manager when all the main options in a position are having a bad day.

I've only really read comments, but it seems we were defensively resilient which is a positive change from the first three games. We just haven't shown much offensively except in the Spurs game. We're as toothless as Brighton at the moment, so 0-0 isn't a huge surprise.


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Post #536163  Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2021 1:45 am 
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socrates wrote:
Bernard wrote:
To be fair socrates, Arteta has spent £90m on our three central midfielders today (Partey £45m, Lokonga £15m, Ødegaard £30m) in the last twelve months. I think it’s reasonable to say he has addressed that area of the pitch.


Hi Bernard,

I was talking about changing something in today's game. I thought our midfield was poor and failed to function as it needed to to give us a proper foothold in the game. Partey, Ødegaard and Lokonga were all pretty poor for most of the game.

Lokonga kept dropping into a left back position, presumably under instruction to cover Tierney's forward runs, but it left us light in midfield.


While on the other side, Saka was not covering Tomiyasu enough in the first half. Tomiyasu was being over-ran too often. Arteta addressed that in the second half.

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Post #536164  Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2021 5:27 am 
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My post disappeared. Okay, anyway, obviously we didn't play well enough. Especially compared the efforta against sperz. It was our first tough away game since we started playing well. It could have been much better. The 'good' I'm taking from this game is that we'd have lost this game a month ago, 2 or 3 to nothing.

We should beat Palace. I obviously have a soft spot for their manager as well as their team. I want us win nonetheless.

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Post #536165  Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2021 5:50 am 
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I read that Derby still owe us £8m from the Bielik transfer. Not sure the methods of getting that money from a club in administration


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Post #536166  Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2021 6:49 am 
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Lokonga being asked to drop in to the positions Xhaka usually takes up didn’t seem to work yesterday. I didn’t think Lokonga was poor it’s just his natural game seems quite similar to Partey. I wonder whether we would have benefitted from having Ødegaard play a bit deeper to get our most technical player on the ball in deeper areas to get through the press.

Brighton’s back 3 seemed happy to go man to man on our front 3 which gave their wing backs licence to really push on and with support from their midfield 3 we were getting outnumbered in wide positions. Cucerella was very good on their left.

If you play against the very organised high press then you either bypass it by going more direct, which is probably more Lacazette’s game holding the ball up, or you need to get through that press early on to make the opponent just back off slightly as they realise you can cut through them.


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Post #536167  Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2021 7:08 am 
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Rich wrote:
I read that Derby still owe us £8m from the Bielik transfer. Not sure the methods of getting that money from a club in administration


Hi Rich,

Can we get the player back?


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Post #536168  Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2021 7:16 am 
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Rich wrote:
Lokonga being asked to drop in to the positions Xhaka usually takes up didn’t seem to work yesterday. I didn’t think Lokonga was poor it’s just his natural game seems quite similar to Partey. I wonder whether we would have benefitted from having Ødegaard play a bit deeper to get our most technical player on the ball in deeper areas to get through the press.



It left our midfield light of a body and made it very difficult to get any control of the game in the middle of the park.

It's a difficult one because it many teams Tierney's overlaps and crosses would be a potent weapon but not in ours.

I've always said that well directed crosses into the area of uncertainty between the 6 yard box and the penalty spot are big attacking weapons, as United showed during their peak years, but they only really work well if you get bodies in the box on the end of them. Aubameyang is not really a big threat aerially or physically and quite often he is our only body in the box. It means Tierney's crosses need to be pinpoint accurate for him to benefit from them.


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Post #536169  Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2021 7:30 am 
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When we have a week in between games to prepare the very least I expect is for us to be physically and mentally ready and we didn't look that way yesterday.

There appeared too little intensity and I thought Arteta's tactics were very passive. Where was the desire to take the game to Brighton, to create chances and really give them a game.

Brighton are a decent side but we have to start giving decent sides a proper game, home and away.

Despite having two of the brightest young attacking talents in the PL we can't score goals. It's a massive problem.


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Post #536170  Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2021 8:42 am 
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Partey only won 2 of 12 duels he contested. Not laying the blame at his feet so let as I suspect lots of the team would have similar stats, but that’s really poor for a central midfielder. It meant we failed to retain possession or any control in the middle of the pitch


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Post #536171  Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2021 9:35 am 
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socrates wrote:
Rich wrote:
Lokonga being asked to drop in to the positions Xhaka usually takes up didn’t seem to work yesterday. I didn’t think Lokonga was poor it’s just his natural game seems quite similar to Partey. I wonder whether we would have benefitted from having Ødegaard play a bit deeper to get our most technical player on the ball in deeper areas to get through the press.



It left our midfield light of a body and made it very difficult to get any control of the game in the middle of the park.

It's a difficult one because it many teams Tierney's overlaps and crosses would be a potent weapon but not in ours.

I've always said that well directed crosses into the area of uncertainty between the 6 yard box and the penalty spot are big attacking weapons, as United showed during their peak years, but they only really work well if you get bodies in the box on the end of them. Aubameyang is not really a big threat aerially or physically and quite often he is our only body in the box. It means Tierney's crosses need to be pinpoint accurate for him to benefit from them.


Was thinking the same thing during the match. Not much point of getting Tierney forward if there's nothing for him to aim at in the middle. But I also don't want to downplay Brighton who played very well and had a lot more experience on the pitch who could read the game on the fly and apply pressure. I only saw it yesterday that Arsenal have the youngest team in the league with many still trying to figure out how to play together. I'm certainly happy with 10 points from 12 and like you said last week after Spurs, there will be a few bumps.


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Post #536172  Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2021 9:36 am 
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Rich wrote:
Partey only won 2 of 12 duels he contested. Not laying the blame at his feet so let as I suspect lots of the team would have similar stats, but that’s really poor for a central midfielder. It meant we failed to retain possession or any control in the middle of the pitch


Not sure what he's doing on the training pitch either cos his shooting was atrocious. :)


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Post #536173  Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2021 10:22 am 
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Rich wrote:
Partey only won 2 of 12 duels he contested. Not laying the blame at his feet so let as I suspect lots of the team would have similar stats, but that’s really poor for a central midfielder. It meant we failed to retain possession or any control in the middle of the pitch

I thought last week’s Tottenham game was Partey’s best performance so far in an Arsenal shirt. To say he didn’t reach the same level yesterday wouldn’t qualify you to be a master of the understatement. It would make you a doctor of the understatement.


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Post #536174  Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2021 10:24 am 
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grantyboy wrote:
Rich wrote:
Partey only won 2 of 12 duels he contested. Not laying the blame at his feet so let as I suspect lots of the team would have similar stats, but that’s really poor for a central midfielder. It meant we failed to retain possession or any control in the middle of the pitch


Not sure what he's doing on the training pitch either cos his shooting was atrocious. :)

Totally off form or just missing Xhaka?


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Post #536175  Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2021 10:32 am 
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socrates wrote:
Aubameyang is not really a big threat aerially or physically and quite often he is our only body in the box. It means Tierney's crosses need to be pinpoint accurate for him to benefit from them.


We have an unresolved striker problem. Lacazette has never been as prolific for us as his previous stats, and general quality, suggest he ought to be. Eddie and Balogun aren't good enough (yet). This leaves us with Aubameyang who has been out of form; much closer to it vs Spurs but off it again yesterday; and he's a very particular type of striker anyway, and I'm not convinced Arteta is building a team style to play to his strengths (which is fair enough since he's unlikely to be here when this team hits its peak years). I think that the various bits of transfer speculation about Lacazette and Aubameyang, and singing a new striker, are partly because many people see this.


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Post #536176  Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2021 12:46 pm 
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grantyboy wrote:
Rich wrote:
Partey only won 2 of 12 duels he contested. Not laying the blame at his feet so let as I suspect lots of the team would have similar stats, but that’s really poor for a central midfielder. It meant we failed to retain possession or any control in the middle of the pitch


Not sure what he's doing on the training pitch either cos his shooting was atrocious. :)

He's not the only one, we've lacked anyone shooting accurately from long range for years. All our lads seem to go for maximum power and they more then often balloon way over the bar. With last nights conditions long range shots should have been aimed to bounce about 3-4 yards in front of the gk - obviously don't aim at him, but make it difficult and look to profit from any mistake - a good striker will nearly always be following those shots in quicker than a central defender.


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Post #536177  Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2021 1:01 pm 
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Interesting to hear Potter say that was about as good as he's had Brighton play. On that sort of performance I think only Chelsea, City and Liverpool would beat them.

Of course there is the danger of over egging how good the opposition were to make ourselves feel better about our own performance but I do think it will be seen as a good point with more time.


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Post #536178  Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2021 1:03 pm 
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I find the two early international breaks so infuriating at the start of each season. 3 games then a break, 3 more and another break. We don't play now for 15 days.


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Post #536179  Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2021 2:19 pm 
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I undertand qualifiers for international cups. The friendlies are what is annoying.

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Post #536180  Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2021 3:08 pm 
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Palace taking a point off Leicester. Happy for Vieira. I assume the fans are happy about him so far. May have to go see one of their forums and gauge the prevailing sentiment.

Brentford is a problem. :58big-emoticons:

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Post #536181  Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2021 3:53 pm 
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Let's go City. Even if I have to sing Blue Moon, beat 'pool.

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Post #536182  Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2021 5:35 pm 
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High quality Liverpool v City game. Attacking wise the two best teams in the league. And probably only Chelsea come close defensively.
Pep is going to be absolutely fuming because the ref totally bottled sending off Milner for a clear as you like 2nd yellow card. Then Salah put Liverpool 2-1 up moments later.
We have to have refs brave enough to make the right decisions even in high stakes games against top teams at home.


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Post #536183  Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2021 7:46 pm 
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Quote from a Telegraph article today -
Quote:
In the final years of Arsene Wenger’s reign and the few seasons after his departure, Arsenal’s transfer policy was driven by various different figures as power shifted around the top of the club.

The inevitable result was inconsistency in their recruitment, with some players liked by one executive but not by others. Arsenal paid a heavy price for such instability behind the scenes, and are still in the process of steadying the ship.

It's maybe the first time I've seen media acknowledgement that transfers weren't controlled by the manager from late Wenger onwards.


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Post #536184  Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2021 9:41 pm 
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https://twitter.com/distancecovered/sta ... 99520?s=21

Interesting to hear Klopp talking about what City want to do, why Liverpool didn’t stop them well enough and the reasons for that. ‘The message was play the extra pass’


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Post #536185  Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2021 11:24 pm 
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Pode wrote:
Quote from a Telegraph article today -
Quote:
In the final years of Arsene Wenger’s reign and the few seasons after his departure, Arsenal’s transfer policy was driven by various different figures as power shifted around the top of the club.

The inevitable result was inconsistency in their recruitment, with some players liked by one executive but not by others. Arsenal paid a heavy price for such instability behind the scenes, and are still in the process of steadying the ship.

It's maybe the first time I've seen media acknowledgement that transfers weren't controlled by the manager from late Wenger onwards.

The first question relates to the reliability of the report. Sure, I associate the traditional broadsheets including the Telegraph, Times, Guardian and Independent as generally more reliable than what has been called the gutter press like the Sun, Mirror or Star. But that isn’t the same as saying everything it writes is completely accurate.

The main executives around in Wenger’s time were Dein, a close friend that got him the job who I’m sure would have discussed things like transfers deeply. But I certainly believe Wenger had the final say in what players were signed. Edelman followed Dein and I don’t think he would have been able to take control of Arsenal’s transfer policy from Wenger. Then Gazidis, who I came across numerous times. Ivan is the perfect representation of ‘all words no action’. He could talk the hind legs of a donkey without actually saying anything. I think Gazidis was working to get rid of Wenger. Not always, but certainly for a time, and he eventually succeeded. Ironic as that’s the thing he didn’t talk about.

However, Wenger was a textbook megalomaniac. A control freak. Power mad. I am totally convinced that the day he stopped having overall control of which players were signed, within Kroenke’s financial restrictions at the time, was the day following his departure. Sanllehi joined shortly before Wenger’s leaving, but he was Gazidis’ appointment and was brought in because Ivan knew he was finally winning the battle to get rid of Wenger.

I honestly don’t think we bought a single player during Wenger’s tenure that he didn’t want signed. Aubameyang was the last player bought during Wenger’s tenure and I reckon Wenger approved of his recruitment. Sure, ideally he would have preferred Messi to Nasri. But I genuinely believe Wenger had the final approval as to who was brought in between realistic targets. A situation similar to Emery wanting Zaha but Sanllehi signing Pépé wouldn’t have happened under Wenger. I’m convinced of that.


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Post #536186  Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2021 6:00 am 
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Bernard wrote:
Pode wrote:
Quote from a Telegraph article today -
It's maybe the first time I've seen media acknowledgement that transfers weren't controlled by the manager from late Wenger onwards.

The first question relates to the reliability of the report. Sure, I associate the traditional broadsheets including the Telegraph, Times, Guardian and Independent as generally more reliable than what has been called the gutter press like the Sun, Mirror or Star. But that isn’t the same as saying everything it writes is completely accurate.

The main executives around in Wenger’s time were Dein, a close friend that got him the job who I’m sure would have discussed things like transfers deeply. But I certainly believe Wenger had the final say in what players were signed. Edelman followed Dein and I don’t think he would have been able to take control of Arsenal’s transfer policy from Wenger. Then Gazidis, who I came across numerous times. Ivan is the perfect representation of ‘all words no action’. He could talk the hind legs of a donkey without actually saying anything. I think Gazidis was working to get rid of Wenger. Not always, but certainly for a time, and he eventually succeeded. Ironic as that’s the thing he didn’t talk about.

However, Wenger was a textbook megalomaniac. A control freak. Power mad. I am totally convinced that the day he stopped having overall control of which players were signed, within Kroenke’s financial restrictions at the time, was the day following his departure. Sanllehi joined shortly before Wenger’s leaving, but he was Gazidis’ appointment and was brought in because Ivan knew he was finally winning the battle to get rid of Wenger.

I honestly don’t think we bought a single player during Wenger’s tenure that he didn’t want signed. Aubameyang was the last player bought during Wenger’s tenure and I reckon Wenger approved of his recruitment. Sure, ideally he would have preferred Messi to Nasri. But I genuinely believe Wenger had the final approval as to who was brought in between realistic targets. A situation similar to Emery wanting Zaha but Sanllehi signing Pépé wouldn’t have happened under Wenger. I’m convinced of that.

I’m with Bernard on this one.

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Post #536187  Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2021 7:12 am 
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Still don't understand how, with a week to prepare for a game, you can play with the level of intensity we did on Saturday.

The players should be right at it from minute one, busting a gut to put in a performance.

The other issue we have is that without europa league football we have no outlet for the fringe players to get playing time and develop their game. Martinelli, love him or hate him, is unlikely to develop his game further sat on the bench not even getting a sniff of first team action. He might as well be on loan. Ditto for Nketiah and Balogun. No point giving them five minutes at the end of a game either.

It's obviously not easy for Arteta with just one game a week and the urge to pick the same starting eleven week-in week-out but at some point he has to involve some of the younger fringe players or else we are left with disillusioned players whose game has regressed.


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Post #536188  Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2021 7:48 am 
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The league cup is ideally a cup we can play fringe players but that would also depend on the level of opposition. Putting them out against the Wimbledons of the compeition is fairly safe but not against a good, EPL side.

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Post #536189  Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2021 7:52 am 
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socrates wrote:
Still don't understand how, with a week to prepare for a game, you can play with the level of intensity we did on Saturday.

The players should be right at it from minute one, busting a gut to put in a performance.


The other issue we have is that without europa league football we have no outlet for the fringe players to get playing time and develop their game. Martinelli, love him or hate him, is unlikely to develop his game further sat on the bench not even getting a sniff of first team action. He might as well be on loan. Ditto for Nketiah and Balogun. No point giving them five minutes at the end of a game either.

It's obviously not easy for Arteta with just one game a week and the urge to pick the same starting eleven week-in week-out but at some point he has to involve some of the younger fringe players or else we are left with disillusioned players whose game has regressed.


I was wondering the same thing. It's Brighton. They are good but we aspire to be a top team and this where every player should have rearing to go. I can fathom why so many players were lackadaisical.

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Post #536190  Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2021 8:28 am 
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Interesting that Buendia hasn't started the last 4 for Villa. It's only 7 games in but he's not yet what you'd expect for £35m.


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Post #536191  Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2021 9:27 am 
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Rich wrote:
Interesting that Buendia hasn't started the last 4 for Villa. It's only 7 games in but he's not yet what you'd expect for £35m.

I think we dodged a bullet with both Buendia, and for that matter Maddison who you didn’t mention. The latter was twice the price. I think the trouble with many fancy Dan creative midfielders is that too many games drift by them. A bit like it did with Ødegaard yesterday, although he was hardly alone there (including non-creative players). Smith Rowe being the obvious exception, who is creative. But I’d still rather have Ødegaard than Buendia and Maddison any day of the week.

Doesn’t apply with everyone. Grealish over the last couple or so seasons for example. But that’s why he cost City £100m.


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Post #536192  Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2021 12:22 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
Rich wrote:
Interesting that Buendia hasn't started the last 4 for Villa. It's only 7 games in but he's not yet what you'd expect for £35m.

I think we dodged a bullet with both Buendia, and for that matter Maddison who you didn’t mention. The latter was twice the price. I think the trouble with many fancy Dan creative midfielders is that too many games drift by them. A bit like it did with Ødegaard yesterday, although he was hardly alone there (including non-creative players). Smith Rowe being the obvious exception, who is creative. But I’d still rather have Ødegaard than Buendia and Maddison any day of the week.

Doesn’t apply with everyone. Grealish over the last couple or so seasons for example. But that’s why he cost City £100m.

Agreed on Maddison and the general point about games sometimes drifting past creative mids. The very best influence all the time. Conversations like this have me reminiscing about Cazorla in deep midfield. I also thought someone like Bernardo Silva is very good at this. plays centrally and is always highly involved


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Post #536193  Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2021 12:26 pm 
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One thing that struck me yesterday in the Liverpool v City game was the amount of times the attacking player received the ball on the half turn and immediately carried the ball forward with purpose. They might not have often beaten a defender on the dribble but they move defences and commit defenders. Of course we're talking about the two best attacking teams in the country but it is evident how effective this is compared to players who a) don't turn as quickly when they receive the ball, b) first thought appears to be to get the ball out of their feet and pass it on and c) don't have as great an appreciation of space.


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Post #536194  Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2021 1:32 pm 
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I don't know if its part of his prepatory process but part of his job if not his and the team captain is to let new players know what may be expected against an opponent. It's especially important in the EPL when you have foreign players coming into this club. 'This club kicks and fouls a lot', 'This club hoofs it up the pitch', etc. Brighton's position in the table and why they are there didn't seem to be communicated. They should have been told if they weren't that they'd need to come out strong (which should be all games) against them.

I didn't see much if any evidence of that.

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Post #536195  Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2021 3:02 pm 
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Just shows Chelsea don’t get everything right when selling younger players. Chelsea sold De Bruyne to Wolfsburg for £18m and Salah to Roma for £15m. Just think what they’re worth now.


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Post #536196  Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2021 4:06 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
Just shows Chelsea don’t get everything right when selling younger players. Chelsea sold De Bruyne to Wolfsburg for £18m and Salah to Roma for £15m. Just think what they’re worth now.

Salah is a bit of a strange one. He was good in Italy but not the spectacular player he has turned into. He was 25 when Liverpool signed him and almost immediately transformed into one of the best attackers in world football. He is only a year younger than Hazard.

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Post #536197  Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2021 6:21 am 
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Bernard wrote:
Just shows Chelsea don’t get everything right when selling younger players. Chelsea sold De Bruyne to Wolfsburg for £18m and Salah to Roma for £15m. Just think what they’re worth now.

And they sold Lukaku around the same time before eventually buying him back this summer for 3 times what they sold him for. I think I’m right in saying Mourinho was the manager who sold all 3!

It hasn’t all gone bad for them as Conte won the title, Sarri won the Europa and now Tuchel has won the Champions League. Chelsea’s managerial impatience has never stopped them consistently winning things when conventional wisdom says it should


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Post #536198  Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2021 9:27 am 
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https://www.tribalfootball.com/articles ... os-4388381

I've said this before, but who the *%^@ negotiated this deal and what were they thinking?

3m euros for a 23 year old greek international with a decent record in Bundesliga football.

You couldn't buy an English League Two player for that.

The kid is looking decent again this year for Stuttgart. They must be wondering what we were smoking when we agreed this deal.


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Post #536199  Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2021 9:44 am 
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socrates wrote:
https://www.tribalfootball.com/articles/stuttgart-chief-mislintat-reveals-asking-price-for-arsenal-defender-mavropanos-4388381

I've said this before, but who the *%^@ negotiated this deal and what were they thinking?

3m euros for a 23 year old greek international with a decent record in Bundesliga football.

You couldn't buy an English League Two player for that.

The kid is looking decent again this year for Stuttgart. They must be wondering what we were smoking when we agreed this deal.

Agreed, 3m is such a pointless amount that you need to weigh up the risk of not including the obligation and him flopping and potentially leaving for zero - so we lose £3m, or him playing well and more teams wanting him after having a season of fans back in stadiums to fill the coffers and potentially getting £10m+ for him. For £3m it is worth the risk to not include the clause.


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Post #536200  Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2021 11:04 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:02 pm
Posts: 18363

Yes we should have kept Mavropanos and stuck him in the reserves for another year whilst paying his salary. This would have helped his value.

Obviously because he’s managed to score againest Hoffenheim it points to a massive mistake right


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