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Post #531121  Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2021 3:37 pm 
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David Ornstein reporting Arsenal and Brighton are getting close to an agreement over Ben White, with personal terms already agreed. A Brighton journalist are claiming a bid has been accepted. Think this one might be done fairly soon. It will cost a lot of money, but that's unfortunately always the case when buying English players.


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Post #531122  Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2021 3:41 pm 
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Hazuki wrote:
David Ornstein reporting Arsenal and Brighton are getting close to an agreement over Ben White, with personal terms already agreed. A Brighton journalist are claiming a bid has been accepted. Think this one might be done fairly soon. It will cost a lot of money, but that's unfortunately always the case when buying English players.


50 odd million ? Seems an awful lot of money


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Post #531123  Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2021 3:47 pm 
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mcquilkie wrote:
So, you're criticising someone because their petition didn't get enough likes? Are you 12 years old?

Where was this petition anyway? If bubblechris put it here, I missed it. Let me clarify that I avoid political petitions like the plague, so I wouldn’t have signed it anyway, just like I wouldn’t have signed a petition suggesting the opposite to bubblechris’ petition. I do, however, have doubts as to how reliable the number of signatories on a petition is on the strength of feeling, one way or the other, on an issue.


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Post #531124  Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2021 3:52 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Hazuki wrote:
David Ornstein reporting Arsenal and Brighton are getting close to an agreement over Ben White, with personal terms already agreed. A Brighton journalist are claiming a bid has been accepted. Think this one might be done fairly soon. It will cost a lot of money, but that's unfortunately always the case when buying English players.


50 odd million ? Seems an awful lot of money

It does, but if we get 5-6 years from him it's probably worth it. I know very little of him but from what I have read since our interest emerged, he is very highly thought of.

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Post #531125  Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:00 pm 
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Darren wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:

50 odd million ? Seems an awful lot of money

It does, but if we get 5-6 years from him it's probably worth it. I know very little of him but from what I have read since our interest emerged, he is very highly thought of.


There’s not many centre backs worth more than 50 million in world football right now surely. That kind of money brings lots of options.

Like yourself I know nothing about the player at all but heard good things however I consider the current England centre backs pretty average and they are getting in the side ahead of him.

I also do find it a little bizarre we are signing another centre back when we have so many and are desperate for midfield reinforcement


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Post #531126  Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:00 pm 
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Darren wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:

50 odd million ? Seems an awful lot of money

It does, but if we get 5-6 years from him it's probably worth it. I know very little of him but from what I have read since our interest emerged, he is very highly thought of.

I saw maybe 6-7 Brighton games last season, and I really liked what I saw of White. A very modern defender, good on the ball and agile. Arteta is clearly eyeing him as a Luiz replacement in my opinion, someone who will help our build-up and maybe allow our midfielders not to drop too deep when we're in possession.

As for the fee, he's clearly not worth it at this point in his career. It's just the way it is with English players. Maguire isn't worth half of 80m, Wan-Bissaka isn't worth 50m and neither is Chilwell. To me this looks like a sign that we have significant money to spend this summer, which is a welcome surprise.


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Post #531127  Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:05 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
I also do find it a little bizarre we are signing another centre back when we have so many and are desperate for midfield reinforcement

I think we have depth at the centre back position, but are lacking quality. Gabriel is really the only one we have with the quality to start for a club chasing top 4, and he only showed it in patches last season. Holding and Mari are good players but definitely shouldn't be more than 3rd/4th choice for where we're aiming.


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Post #531128  Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:42 pm 
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https://www.arsenal.com/news/dinos-mavr ... tgart-loan

Mavropanos joins Stuttgart on loan with option/obligation to buy depending on if they stay up.

Edit: https://theathletic.com/news/arsenal-tr ... dod0UHpfNE This is the article with the details about the deal. Like the part about a sell-on clause, Mavropanos is a talented player and if he performs he might attract interest elsewhere.


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Post #531129  Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:51 pm 
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Quite a few reports saying we've moved very close to securing Ben White for £45-50m.

I can;t believe we'd spend that much on a single player without also investing heavily in the other areas of the team that need players - most notably central midfield and attacking midfield.

So either Arsenal are going to spend £50m on a CB and spend pennies and leave gaps elsewhere, or we're also going to spend big on other areas of the team. Because doing the first option is absolute madness and the fans won't be happy.

If you have a £60m budget and need 6 players do you
a) sign 1 player for £50m and then 5 players for £2m each
b) sign 6 players for £10m (or similar spreading round of funds)

I can't believe any club would go for option a) - which makes me optimistically think we might see some serious spending this summer.


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Post #531130  Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:53 pm 
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Hazuki wrote:
https://www.arsenal.com/news/dinos-mavropanos-rejoins-stuttgart-loan

Mavropanos joins Stuttgart on loan with option/obligation to buy depending on if they stay up.

Edit: https://theathletic.com/news/arsenal-tr ... dod0UHpfNE This is the article with the details about the deal. Like the part about a sell-on clause, Mavropanos is a talented player and if he performs he might attract interest elsewhere.

Obviously with a sell on clause you take a bit of a hit on the initial fee, but what I've seen (can't open the athletic article) is £500k loan fee and obligation to buy for £3m if they stay in the top flight, and £1.5m if they get relegated. £3.5m seems like absolute pennies and virtually giving the player away irrespective of sell on clause.


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Post #531131  Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:56 pm 
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Hazuki wrote:
https://www.arsenal.com/news/dinos-mavropanos-rejoins-stuttgart-loan

Mavropanos joins Stuttgart on loan with option/obligation to buy depending on if they stay up.

Edit: https://theathletic.com/news/arsenal-tr ... dod0UHpfNE This is the article with the details about the deal. Like the part about a sell-on clause, Mavropanos is a talented player and if he performs he might attract interest elsewhere.


Whichever way you look at it that's a *%^@ deal, Haz.

He was one of the brightest young defenders in the German league last season and he's only 23. I just can't believe he's only worth £5m.

I get the bit that you can can't get more if there are no higher offers but couldn't we have loaned him to a PL side for a season. If he did well h'd be worth three times that.


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Post #531132  Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:57 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Hazuki wrote:
https://www.arsenal.com/news/dinos-mavropanos-rejoins-stuttgart-loan

Mavropanos joins Stuttgart on loan with option/obligation to buy depending on if they stay up.

Edit: https://theathletic.com/news/arsenal-tr ... dod0UHpfNE This is the article with the details about the deal. Like the part about a sell-on clause, Mavropanos is a talented player and if he performs he might attract interest elsewhere.

Obviously with a sell on clause you take a bit of a hit on the initial fee, but what I've seen (can't open the athletic article) is £500k loan fee and obligation to buy for £3m if they stay in the top flight, and £1.5m if they get relegated. £3.5m seems like absolute pennies and virtually giving the player away irrespective of sell on clause.


That is an embarassing fee, Rich. It's the kind of fee you'd expect to pay for a League One defender.


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Post #531133  Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:59 pm 
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I don't pretend to be any kind of expert on Ben White. In his compilation videos he looks very classy and assured on the ball. However, £50m is a hefty sum so I just hope we've got this one right.


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Post #531134  Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2021 5:01 pm 
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Does sound a ridiculous deal.

Why even involve relegation clauses? You either want him or not and the fee is peanuts anyway.

I can only assume that Arsenal need to aggressively clear the decks and risking a sale won’t cut it.

Clear the decks I say. Next up Xhaka and Guendouzi please


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Post #531135  Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2021 5:05 pm 
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If England get past Germany the run to the final is as good as anyone could possibly hope for.


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Post #531136  Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2021 5:12 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Obviously with a sell on clause you take a bit of a hit on the initial fee, but what I've seen (can't open the athletic article) is £500k loan fee and obligation to buy for £3m if they stay in the top flight, and £1.5m if they get relegated. £3.5m seems like absolute pennies and virtually giving the player away irrespective of sell on clause.

It's reported as a £3m fee with bonuses of £1,5m. Obligation to buy if they stay up, option to buy if they get relegated. Would've wanted more obviously, but not sure how realistic that is for a 23-year old with a really bad injury history and basically half a season of top flight football in his career. Teams didn't seem to line up to buy him, and we're not in a position to give him game time the coming season I think.


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Post #531137  Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2021 5:21 pm 
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Stuttgart to Arsenal.....the best we can offer for Mavropanos is £15m. Arsenal to Stuttgart.....you can have him for £5m, not a penny less.

Arsenal to Brighton.....how much do you want for Ben White?
Brighton to Arsenal.....£25m, not a penny less.
Arsenal to Brighton.....we’ll give you £50m, take it or leave it.


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Post #531138  Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2021 5:31 pm 
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Ultimately it’s not the club. These players haven’t done enough to stand out. It’s as simple as that

If we put saka up for sale we would get a queue of clubs after him as long as your arm with massive fees involved. Smith Rowe a bid of 30 million ? Why ? Because he’s impressed.


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Post #531139  Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2021 5:40 pm 
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However you try to dress it up the Mavropanos fee is a joke unless there is a 50% sell-on clause.

Might as well chuck in Saliba as well. Buy one get one free.


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Post #531140  Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2021 5:48 pm 
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socrates wrote:
However you try to dress it up the Mavropanos fee is a joke unless there is a 50% sell-on clause.

Might as well chuck in Saliba as well. Buy one get one free.

According to the club website its a loan deal......... no mention of any obligation to buy

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Post #531141  Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:09 pm 
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HoddGooner wrote:
socrates wrote:
However you try to dress it up the Mavropanos fee is a joke unless there is a 50% sell-on clause.

Might as well chuck in Saliba as well. Buy one get one free.

According to the club website its a loan deal......... no mention of any obligation to buy


Hi Hodd,

Have you heard anything on Saliba?


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Post #531142  Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:23 pm 
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£50million sounds like a lot of money for a cash strapped club, I can only assume this is the first of many Arsenal transfers this summer presumably financed by more loans.


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Post #531143  Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2021 7:49 pm 
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Darren wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:

50 odd million ? Seems an awful lot of money

It does, but if we get 5-6 years from him it's probably worth it. I know very little of him but from what I have read since our interest emerged, he is very highly thought of.


50M....so is that half the transfer budget gone...supposing. :tongue7:
Unless it's closer to 300M. KSE allowing 3 :icon_scratch: 00M...

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Post #531144  Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2021 8:06 pm 
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If anyone is interested in how Ben White compares to Saliba, Gabriel and Tapsoba then this youtube video looks at stats for various things such as clearances, passes, duels etc, and an articulate Brighton fan gives his opinion on White. Based on this video (I did skip through a lot of it) it seems that he's a very good player but not neccesarily better than Saliba.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpPWlOQHtkw


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Post #531145  Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2021 1:18 am 
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https://www.espn.com.sg/soccer/uefa-cha ... mpetitions

I applaud this. Always thought of it as a stupid rule.

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Post #531146  Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2021 5:20 am 
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White is a right footer as was Holding. He could also cover right back or slot in there where left footers would not, or never have to date, or have they?


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Post #531147  Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2021 5:27 am 
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Oi thicko opposing lock downs that have been proved to not work, check out the US, doesn't make one a covid denier. Are you really that thick?

Did you appreciate the compliment? Being likened to a 12 year old, oh dear :42laughter:


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Post #531148  Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2021 5:38 am 
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The difficult thing to judge if you’re signing a player from a lower league club is whether simply being in a better team shows them to be a better player.
Think of Robertson, Winaldum and Jota at Liverpool. I think people thought £40m for Jota was a big fee for someone who had talent and pace but was not very inconsistent for wolves and didn’t seem like he could challenge salah, Mané, firminho - but he hit the ground running.

In a defenders case their stats on things like passing might look weak in a team where they don’t have much of the ball or the instructions are to play more directly.

The skill is identifying those players where the club their at is slightly holding back their potential.


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Post #531149  Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2021 5:57 am 
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gooner7 wrote:
https://www.espn.com.sg/soccer/uefa-champions-league/story/4419188/away-goals-rule-abolished-uefa-announces-major-shake-up-of-club-competitions

I applaud this. Always thought of it as a stupid rule.

Not as stupid as its predecessor. That was tossing a coin. I remember watching one match where the coin got stuck vertically in the mud and had to be tossed again.

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Post #531150  Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2021 7:03 am 
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socrates wrote:
HoddGooner wrote:
According to the club website its a loan deal......... no mention of any obligation to buy


Hi Hodd,

Have you heard anything on Saliba?

Nothing that would add any insight on what is in the press

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Post #531151  Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2021 7:15 am 
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HoddGooner wrote:
socrates wrote:

Hi Hodd,

Have you heard anything on Saliba?

Nothing that would add any insight on what is in the press


Do you believe that it is purely down to his ability or is something else going on?. I mean he went to France and ended up being a contender for being in the team of the season despite only playing 6 months. He's clearly a rough diamond but the potential seems obvious.

I also read that one of the younger players at Arsenal reckons he's the best CB at the club. Now, I know that the opinion of a young player at a club is not necessarily anything to go by but players generally know who is good and who isn't.


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Post #531152  Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2021 10:57 am 
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Only four players made more interceptions than Ben White in the 2020-21 Premier League.

Only three teams made fewer interceptions than Arsenal last season.

Of the 4 players to make more interceptions that White, 2 of them were Bissouma and Neves who we’ve been linked with. Interesting


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Post #531153  Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2021 11:40 am 
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Rich wrote:
Only four players made more interceptions than Ben White in the 2020-21 Premier League.

Only three teams made fewer interceptions than Arsenal last season.

Of the 4 players to make more interceptions that White, 2 of them were Bissouma and Neves who we’ve been linked with. Interesting

Afternoon Rich. Therefore, a minimum of two of the five players who made the most interceptions were, from what you say, Brighton players. Namely, Bissouma and White.

What is also interesting is that Brighton (16th with 41 points) finished eight places and 20 points below Arsenal (8th with 61 points), despite having at least (apart from Neves I don’t know who the others are) two of the five players with the most interceptions.

Furthermore, if only three teams had fewer interceptions than Arsenal, at the very least Arsenal finished above nine of the twelve sides with more interceptions. Perhaps even more than that, as I’ve solely gone by your post without looking the identity of the three teams with fewer interceptions up. Theoretically of course, any or all of the three with fewer interceptions could have been one or more of the seven sides finishing above Arsenal.

I’m not saying making interceptions is unimportant. But what my analysis might well suggest is that there are more, arguably far more, important factors contributing to the success or otherwise of teams.


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Post #531154  Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2021 1:25 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
Rich wrote:
Only four players made more interceptions than Ben White in the 2020-21 Premier League.

Only three teams made fewer interceptions than Arsenal last season.

Of the 4 players to make more interceptions that White, 2 of them were Bissouma and Neves who we’ve been linked with. Interesting

Afternoon Rich. Therefore, a minimum of two of the five players who made the most interceptions were, from what you say, Brighton players. Namely, Bissouma and White.

What is also interesting is that Brighton (16th with 41 points) finished eight places and 20 points below Arsenal (8th with 61 points), despite having at least (apart from Neves I don’t know who the others are) two of the five players with the most interceptions.

Furthermore, if only three teams had fewer interceptions than Arsenal, at the very least Arsenal finished above nine of the twelve sides with more interceptions. Perhaps even more than that, as I’ve solely gone by your post without looking the identity of the three teams with fewer interceptions up. Theoretically of course, any or all of the three with fewer interceptions could have been one or more of the seven sides finishing above Arsenal.

I’m not saying making interceptions is unimportant. But what my analysis might well suggest is that there are more, arguably far more, important factors contributing to the success or otherwise of teams.

Well, Brighton's problems were further forward. Their 'goals against', 46, was much better than that of teams around them in the league.

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Post #531155  Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2021 2:11 pm 
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Saliba selected for the 18-man French Olympic squad.


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Post #531156  Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2021 2:47 pm 
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William Saliba episode 459 written by David Simon. .... Arsenal fans micro analyse Salibas nans Bowel movements for evidence of things they can get angry about.


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Post #531157  Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2021 3:02 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
William Saliba episode 459 written by David Simon. .... Arsenal fans micro analyse Salibas nans Bowel movements for evidence of things they can get angry about.

More baffled than angry. It’s as weird as the Clive Allen signing.

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Post #531158  Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2021 3:24 pm 
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I see Arteta as quite George Graham-esque in his mindset. George had very little truck with certain individuals if they weren't seen as pulling their weight and bombed put certain names when he first arrived. Maybe, just maybe, the issue with Saliba isn't ability but attitude and that's what he needs to address.

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Post #531159  Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2021 3:27 pm 
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long time gooner wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
William Saliba episode 459 written by David Simon. .... Arsenal fans micro analyse Salibas nans Bowel movements for evidence of things they can get angry about.

More baffled than angry. It’s as weird as the Clive Allen signing.

Excellent parallel there, LTG. (A circuitous route to get Sansom? Okay, probably not.) Yes, it's really weird. It's ridiculous to pretend otherwise.

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Post #531160  Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2021 3:38 pm 
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long time gooner wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
William Saliba episode 459 written by David Simon. .... Arsenal fans micro analyse Salibas nans Bowel movements for evidence of things they can get angry about.

More baffled than angry. It’s as weird as the Clive Allen signing.

It really isn’t. He’s what 19 ? Is it not logical that the coaching staff simply think he’s simply not ready when it comes to a make or break season like the one in prospect.


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