Clear corner for the last kick of the game and they give a goal kick. Sigh

Game management has to be better. We can't stop attacking completely when we go ahead.

I think Martinelli was the worst culprit. Its almost like he had the mindset that we're ahead so he shouldn't take any risks to make anything happen or bust a gut getting forward. At one point he took the ball to their corner flag... with about 25 minutes to play! He's there to finish the game.

I don't think we can blame the ref. We were the better side by some distance when we actually played.

Wish we’d held out, it’s a worrying trend now that we can play so well for 45 minutes and then cede all possession and territory and our high press is absent.

So many things against us today. Having to start Partey at RB (he played well) moving our RB to CB, and then in the game losing Gabriel and Timber it ended up as such a makeshift defence.

Those decisions I just can’t understand though, how is Van Dijk with bar able to look at it allowed to kick out twice at Havertz off the ball and it not be a red card. The penalty of Martinelli could not have been over turned by var and then the free kick for Kiwior’s header at the end is so so so soft, that’s a CB over a striker from a long ball and no issue in any game at any time.

3 big decisions which whilst not clear cut either way all went the way of Liverpool today

Time per Liverpool corner;
- 22 seconds
- 34 seconds
- 18 seconds

Time for Raya yellow card for time wasting.
- 19 seconds

Refs aren’t timing time wasting, they are reacting to what goes on in the media and the noise around certain teams.

You will see hundreds of occasions where a gk takes longer than 19 seconds this season, including Raya himself and they won’t be booked. It’s a big game and a ref thinks I can’t let this happen and for it to be the talking point, I must be strong - and in doing so more often than not end up as the talking point

https://x.com/mktirb/status/18506073504 ... -j6VVZXEoA

Only 1 Liverpool player even appeals for the foul. Kiwior just wants the header more, the other player doesn’t even properly challenge for it. It’s just not a foul - ever

Taylor doesn’t blow for the foul, he waits, he waits, then he sees Havertz is 1v1 wot the gk and then he blows for it 3 seconds later. If he was certain it was a free kick then why wait? Did he think Liverpool might somehow gain an advantage from the ball being dangerously in their own box.

In the circumstances 2-2 is a decent result.

It is frustrating how we dominated the latter part of the 1st half and deservedly went ahead but then sat back and allowed Liverpool to gain momentum.

Saka was largely out of the game in the 2nd half despite his obvious quality and we need to somehow keep our game flowing.

I would love to see how many of our yellow cards are for actual fouls for competing for the ball? Must be such a low proportion compared to other teams. Are we really drastically more indisciplined than other teams for arguing with officials and time wasting - 2 more yellows today not for fouls

I think Havertz might have been penalised for the little shove just before Jesus rolls it into the net anyway.

We’ve had so many players not only injured but go off injured in games.

It becomes catch 22, we have to play some players not fully fit and they struggle to make the 90. Ideally we’d have really been able to manage Timbers minutes this early season but we haven’t had the chance, same with introducing Calafiori in to the team.

5 points behind City, only points dropped are when we’ve had 10 men or a makeshift defence

Except the free kick was taken at the point of the Kiwior incident not in the area where Havertz controlled the ball

Definitely feels that with injuries hitting badly we are a couple of players short of what we really needed from the summer window.

However, the injuries to defenders is hard to legislate for. Liverpool had a big injury hit season a while ago and it was just impossible to keep up with City who can basically replace almost every player like-for-like and have enough game-changers to compensate for the times they have an off-day.

What i meant is that if the first free kick had not been given the goal might well have been disallowed anyway for the Havertz shove on Trent.

https://x.com/now_arsenai/status/185058 ... -j6VVZXEoA

No matter how many times I look at this I cannot see a fair tackle from either Liverpool player. I can see Trent try to kick the ball and miss and kick Martinelli in the guts (albeit it may be lightly), then Konate may eventually get something on the ball but only because he very clumsily cleans out Martinelli right through him.

Of the 3 decisions this is the worst one for me.

Van Dijk ‘could’ get a red but if I use my barometer of what usually happens it’s rare that refs give a straight red for kicks, more likely hands in face.

The Kiwior foul I don’t even think is a 50/50 based on how most games are reffed, and I can see that plenty happens after that but I just don’t like that the ref doesn’t actually blow for the foul initially he waited until Havertz was 1v1 then blew

Yes I can agree that would have needed to be looked at.

Arteta said we were great 1st half but lacked a bit of courage to play under pressure in the 2nd half and I think he's spot on.

To me that's the next step, remaining composed and courageous even when under pressure.

https://x.com/4500xxxc/status/185058332 ... -j6VVZXEoA

They make a sham of the Rice and Trossard decisions every week. Dias kicks the ball 20 yards from the place of the free kick. If we wanted to take it quickly we were denied the chance by him kicking it 20 yards away.

To be clear I do not want things like this yellow carded, but if you’re going to defend it with Rice and Trossard then you must be consistent. Save the yellows for clearly stopping a free kick being taken quickly and don’t be conned in to that by players whose only ambition is to get the opponent carded rather than take a quick free kick

The question is ask is did we not have the courage to play because of the pressure or did we come under pressure because we stopped having the courage to play

We dominated Liverpool in the 1st half and Saka was a key part of that.

In the 2nd half we stopped playing and feeding him and we became less and less of a threat.

If feels like we could have made the necessary step up in the summer window and we didn't. A missed opportunity?

Hmmm ...strange game . at one point I thought how can we look so good after the Bournemouth debacle ; then all of a sudden [ was it when Gabriel went off ]
we lost our composure and resorted to headless clearances , unable to keep possession .

In my opinion Mikel made the substitutions far too late ; fresh legs at the 65 minute mark might have got us the win .

It was the latter. There was nothing special about Liverpool's performance. We just kept giving the ball to them. Furthermore, Liverpool were pretty open at the back, particularly down the flanks. If Arteta can see it happening, why not do something about it? Instead, he waits until we concede and then brings Nwaneri and Jesus on. Bring Jesus on earlier. He's been very lively in the last few games.

Gidday Soc .... I'd disagree with that , irrespective of injuries ; against a fellow title challenger we should be hellbent on winning and denying them points

We were at home and yet I felt Slot made more of an attempt to win that game than Arteta did . He brought on his subs far earlier in an attempt to change the outcome while Mikel sat on his hands hoping to cling on to what he had .

As Decaf pointed out Martinelli running the ball towards the corner , Raya shagging around time wasting ; these aren't the attributes of solid title contenders

It was pretty much after we scored, rather than when Gabriel went off.

We had an XG of precisely zero from the time we scored (42 minutes) to the 76th minute.

The we woke up again after they scored.

We were missing Calafiori, saliba and Tomiyasu before the game and to lose Timber and big Gab during it made it very difficult. Scream about substitutions as much as you want when Timber came off I just knew they were scoring down that side. Any team would struggle if it loses its entire defence bar 1

I agree. Despite the injuries, we had a strong team and and the players I was worried about all played well. Its a home game and we needed to win it keep in touch with City.

With the play as it went Slot was in the ascendancy to try to salvage something from the game, but we came on again once it was 2-2, I didn’t see Slot going all out to win it. 2-2 is a better result for them as it’s at our place, but with them in the ascendancy and our absolute makeshift back line it was a chance lost for Slot and Liverpool to stick the knife in…..just as much as it was a missed chance for us to go on and win the game

The late penalty West Ham got today is so so soft, wasn’t given on the pitch, var wanted the review and ref gave it. It’s re refereeing the game! Compare the West Ham penalty with Martinelli getting taken out in the box today

We aren't winning the title this season, Rich. We've looked a proper team for moments during the season (1st half today) but we've also had far too many moments where we taken our foot off the gas and fallen back into a team that parks the bus and/or loses all composure and courage in possession.

I would understand the "hold what we have" attitude if you take the lead with 20 mins to go but going ahead in the 1st half and then trying to hold out is a very negative tactic. Even before the enforced subs we had lost our grip on the game.

I think Arteta by nature is a cautious manager and doesn't make enough pro-active subs to inject new energy and momentum back into our play.

Agree with all of that, but it’s too soon to 100% declare we’re not winning the title. Look at last season and the runs us and City went on after half way and how we were playing in the early part of the season, we have far more excuses for slightly stodgy play this season than at the same time last year.
I’d normally say I’m less convinced by City this year - but again that’s based on their end of year form which they can do again.
We weren’t favourites for the title at the start of the season and at no point this season are we favourites, we’re expected to finish 2nd. Is it a disaster if we do? A disappointment no doubt but that’s what most people expected.
Get the players back fit and trust in Arteta to figure out a way.

PGMOL release the refs and var talking on only a very few incidents, carefully controlled for Webb’s tv show discussing decisions. What we really need to hear instead of the choreographed stuff is the conversation of every decision var looks at, and particularly incidents for off the ball violent conduct like Van dijks today. I want to hear what they see and how they describe that two kicks out off the ball is not worthy of any sanction. I don’t want to hear ex refs justify it with law-gymnastics and assumptions - let’s hear the real time view of the var officials.

Again, when was the last time one of our players lashed out or kicked out like that and avoided punishment? Even just this season where have any var calls on our players been where the var decision went our way not including factual offsides like today. We had one in Europe with the handball penalty but on the prem every big 50/50 (if we view them as that) has gone against us, if there is no subconscious bias then we’d get something, anything on the law of averages. When was the last time in any match you have opponents fans steaming because Arsenal got all the rub of the green from officials - so much so that all these decisions were widely discussed on MOtD and Sky. We just don’t get them

League cup midweek if go with

Raya, Zinchenko, Kiwior, Karucci, Nichols, Jorginho, MLS, Nwaneri, Sterling, Jesus, kabia
But feel that’s likely a step too far and White, Saliba and Trossard/Martinelli will play

What would be unpalatable is if we don’t finish second and then City have a pile of points deducted. I have my doubts about us this season. Socrates is pretty well spot on in his comments.

our $@$*#y rugby team is a product of putting the wrong man in charge , but I don't shed many tears because the way the game is played these days
p***ses me right off ; I rarely watch a match .

Recently one of those home remedies didn't go quite as planned ; seem to remember something about missing out on a load of nutrients when you discard the peel from oranges and lemons .

With that in mind , pick four fresh oranges , a lemon , a dozen comfrey leaves and blend with a litre and half of water ....... Chug a lug a litre .

Mama Mia ...... About an hour later feels like I've got appendicitis ; off the charts stomach pains for about five hours .

Yes to finish 3rd to Liverpool would be below par. I think the same as last season we are a better team than Liverpool, that 90 minutes proved that even with our injuries.

Zinchenko really has fallen out of favour hasn’t he. Especially as MLS plays exactly the same role as Zinchenko from left back

For all the perceived grievances of injustice did you see how Haaland was treated against Southampton? The guy was rugby tackled at least 3 times in the box. Four if you count the one he scored. He got absolutely nothing and of one were a manc youd be frothing at the mouth livid. It’s not just us, the inconsistency is everywhere.

https://www.football365.com/news/man-ut ... y-west-ham

So now Neville jumps on board that refs are awful and influenced outside of their instinct now that a bad decision goes against Man U.

Every weekend atrocious decisions are the biggest part of the weekend. I don’t actually think any of the Arsenal ones were the worst this weekend. The West Ham penalty and the Van der ven non red card were awful. And in reality now every time a player delays a restart and doesn’t get a yellow is worse than any subjective penalty or red card decision because the offence is far more black and white than a subjective foul.

We will not see another player this season red carded for delaying the restart, we will not see another player this season red carded for a last man foul 40 yards from goal. Just as we’ve seen with countless decisions where we’re held to the harshest letter of the law.

Imagine Xhaka doing what Van Dijk did kicking Havertz yesterday, there would have been an absolute field day in the press irrespective of whether he was sent off - which he would have been (because when was he ever given the benefit of the doubt) Van Dijk hardly got a mention! Refereeing based on perceived reputation- which is exactly why Raya got booked for time wasting for taking 19 seconds on a goal kick, far less than multiple incidents in the game, why are refs so quick to book our players for time wasting and hurry us up when we’re injured? It’s the narrative that has been banged loud this season so they follow suit.

But it’s things that happen every game in the box, very subjective and often 50/50, City might not have got those but they got plenty of others including a saints player being booked for a clean tackle and for Foden trying to delay the restart. I agree all clubs get decisions they don’t agree with and the majority will be 50/50 and go for and against - my argument is how many of these 50/50’s do we get our way on game changing decisions - red cards, penalties and fouls/offences leading directly to goals?

I expect we can find 10 examples every game where a penalty could be given for wrestling in the box.

The ones I don’t understand are Van Dijk kicking out at Havertz. Clear red, or if not - is that allowed now with no punishment?

I am glad to see that some things never change. You are always just one experiment away from being awarded the Noble award for medicine OR ….