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Post #530481  Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:02 am 
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socrates wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
What price would Kroenke be willing to sell at ? 2.5? That’s more than current value right ? 3 definitely.

I think LTG and others touched on this yesterday and this season is make or break as it just feels that if we don’t get back in the champions league soon we could have years in the wilderness approaching with players aware that Arsenal are no longer a competitive entity and leaving or not joining. That causes Kroenke a problem as no amount of PR or deflection from incoming transfers will convince our fans in his ownership.

Maybe It could be time

Hi TG,

It’s definitely time from an Arsenal point of view, I’m just not sure Ek will be able to bid £2.5 billion + and still have the money to make big investments in the team. Unless he has some other billionaire backers supporting him.

Morning socrates. There was a report on 17th May that Ek had bid $2.5b for Arsenal but the Kroenke’s turned it down because they don’t need the money (see my first link). I think there might often be a bit of confusion about how much is being bid because some reports give their figures in US dollars while others use pounds Sterling.

According to the figures in US dollars, Forbes say Ek’s net worth is $4.0b (see my second link below). Hence $2.5b is 62.5% of his fortune. That will leave him with a net $1.5b, so 37.5% of his current wealth. That’s a very major drop. If not a massive drop. Hence I wonder if you’re right about Ek needing other sources of funding if he’s is going to not only buy the club but subsequently fund transfer activity.

There is also the question of what the Kroenke’s would sell for. If they did turn down $2.5b in mid-May, I suspect $3.0b would be the bare minimum and I’m not certain even that would be enough. We mustn’t underestimate Stan’s greed.

https://www.musicbusinessworldwide.com/ ... the-money/

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Post #530482  Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:55 am 
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Bernard wrote:
socrates wrote:
Hi TG,

It’s definitely time from an Arsenal point of view, I’m just not sure Ek will be able to bid £2.5 billion + and still have the money to make big investments in the team. Unless he has some other billionaire backers supporting him.

Morning socrates. There was a report on 17th May that Ek had bid $2.5b for Arsenal but the Kroenke’s turned it down because they don’t need the money (see my first link). I think there might often be a bit of confusion about how much is being bid because some reports give their figures in US dollars while others use pounds Sterling.

According to the figures in US dollars, Forbes say Ek’s net worth is $4.0b (see my second link below). Hence $2.5b is 62.5% of his fortune. That will leave him with a net $1.5b, so 37.5% of his current wealth. That’s a very major drop. If not a massive drop. Hence I wonder if you’re right about Ek needing other sources of funding if he’s is going to not only buy the club but subsequently fund transfer activity.

There is also the question of what the Kroenke’s would sell for. If they did turn down $2.5b in mid-May, I suspect $3.0b would be the bare minimum and I’m not certain even that would be enough. We mustn’t underestimate Stan’s greed.

https://www.musicbusinessworldwide.com/ ... the-money/

https://www.forbes.com/profile/daniel-e ... da2a646abc


Hi Bernard,

That’s the thing, by billionaire standards Ek is not that wealthy. Is his wealth also tied up in shares? Unless he has a consortium of wealthy investors behind him it’s hard to see how he could afford the levels of investment required.

Its not like he has £10 billion in cash just burning a hole in his pocket.


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Post #530483  Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 12:15 pm 
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Hasn’t this been covered already? The cash of the prospective owner is largely irrelevant anyway as kroenkes wealth is neither here nor there as he borrowed from Deutsche bank and more recently Barclays to buy the club entirely and hasn’t put in whilst continuing to buy ranches, toupes and all sorts

The only pertinent point I can see is that Ek wouldn’t likely be a sugar daddy owner and that because of this would bring back arsenal DNA and influence. I’d take that right now


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Post #530484  Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 12:20 pm 
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*%^@*** hell 35 m in fines.

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Post #530485  Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 12:56 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:

No, its 20 million divided amongst the English wantaways + 15 million each. Hardly even a slap on the wrist and unlikely to affect transfer plans.

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Post #530486  Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:04 pm 
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With pretty much every club in Europe struggling with money this summer, it seems like a perfect opportunity to try and swoop up some elite talents - players who are 18-20 and has shown great potential while still playing regularly.

I've said previously I want us to sign two midfielders, and while I do like both Bissouma and Neves as players I hope we don't sign both of them. Both are very good and would probably not need much time to adapt having played several years in the league, but I don't see them growing into elite players. One of them plus someone like Gravenberch at Ajax or Camawinga at Rennes, who can probably be signed for a lot less than they would go for in a normal market seems perfect to me. Those type of signings might not work out, but we could probably recoup most of the transfer fee if they don't make it, and if they are successfull we'll have a top class player at our hands. Even if they would want to move on after a few good years they would probably have doubled or tripled their worth.

We can't sign ready made world class players, so we should make an effort to go for world class potential to complement any signings that are meant for the starting eleven right away.


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Post #530487  Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:15 pm 
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Image
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Zed wrote:
Sidney Poitier and Miles Davis

Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain and Kieran Gibbs

That's the easy part. Now name the ballroom dancing category they'd had just won.

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Post #530488  Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:31 pm 
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Some reports that Guendouzi to Marseille and Xhaka to Roma are as good as done deals.


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Post #530489  Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:32 pm 
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Decaf wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:

No, its 20 million divided amongst the English wantaways + 15 million each. Hardly even a slap on the wrist and unlikely to affect transfer plans.

Oh I missed that bit. Yeah not as bad although Kroenke will probably take out another Barclays loan to cover it.


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Post #530490  Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:33 pm 
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Hazuki wrote:
Some reports that Guendouzi to Marseille and Xhaka to Roma are as good as done deals.

I’ve got very mixed feelings about Xhaka. Lots of pluses and minuses in his game and you were never quite sure what you were going to get. He did eventually learn to rein in his mad impulses somewhat. Horribly one paced .

Right now though we’ll be weaker without him as we did seem to be more effective with him than without him. However we do need to improve both in qualities and in numbers there so fingers crossed that the incoming player(s) are a major step up.

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Post #530491  Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:38 pm 
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Hazuki wrote:
Some reports that Guendouzi to Marseille and Xhaka to Roma are as good as done deals.


Chuck in a fat guy in a red suit and it’s Christmas folks :58big-emoticons:


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Post #530492  Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 3:07 pm 
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£15.5m for Xhaka.

Not my favourite player but come on that is the very definition of underselling an asset.


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Post #530493  Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 3:21 pm 
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long time gooner wrote:
Hazuki wrote:
Some reports that Guendouzi to Marseille and Xhaka to Roma are as good as done deals.

I’ve got very mixed feelings about Xhaka. Lots of pluses and minuses in his game and you were never quite sure what you were going to get. He did eventually learn to rein in his mad impulses somewhat. Horribly one paced .

Right now though we’ll be weaker without him as we did seem to be more effective with him than without him. However we do need to improve both in qualities and in numbers there so fingers crossed that the incoming player(s) are a major step up.


Agree with that LTG.

I moan about his deficiencies but then we leave him out and we look immediately the worse for it. We had a very decent run in the second half of the season and he was our most influential player in a number of games. No disguising his lack of pace and his propensity to foul, but he's still a very decent player who will be hard to replace.


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Post #530494  Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 3:30 pm 
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Yo Bern - finally managed to renew my STs.

What a bleeding palaver! Even with a geeky bloke from Arse Ticket Office talking me through the processes, it still wouldn't bloody work. 6 email exchanges and 3 calls - last one was almost 90 mins!

Someone need to re-build that poxy website from bottom to top. Rog?


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Post #530495  Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 3:37 pm 
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Adarabioyo has a release clause from Fulham for just £10m. Arteta worked with him at City and we've been linked. To be honest I didn't watch much of Fulham last year though.


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Post #530496  Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 5:35 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Decaf wrote:
No, its 20 million divided amongst the English wantaways + 15 million each. Hardly even a slap on the wrist and unlikely to affect transfer plans.

Oh I missed that bit. Yeah not as bad although Kroenke will probably take out another Barclays loan to cover it.

Oh for a multi billiinnare like Stan, it's nothing. No doubt he despises having to pay it though. :15laughter:

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Post #530497  Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 5:53 pm 
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DHD wrote:
Yo Bern - finally managed to renew my STs.

What a bleeding palaver! Even with a geeky bloke from Arse Ticket Office talking me through the processes, it still wouldn't bloody work. 6 email exchanges and 3 calls - last one was almost 90 mins!

Someone need to re-build that poxy website from bottom to top. Rog?

I know exactly what a pain in the neck it was. To be honest, things were easier when they let you do it by phone. Was probably easier for them as well if you were on the phone for 90 minutes with them trying to sort it out. They did eventually take my money though.


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Post #530498  Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:58 pm 
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One thing that might make a difference in the Ødegaard situation is his salary. He was getting paid double with us what he was at Real Madrid and real now have to consider what to do as he has 2 years left on his contract. We could possibly offer him 135-160k a week and that would probably be unlikely there I’d have thought for a player who would mostly sit on their bench.

If we can get around 30 million for those 2 *%^@ puffins Xhaka and Guendouzi I could certainly see us meeting the 52 million asking price for Ødegaard.


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Post #530499  Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:28 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
One thing that might make a difference in the Ødegaard situation is his salary. He was getting paid double with us what he was at Real Madrid and real now have to consider what to do as he has 2 years left on his contract. We could possibly offer him 135-160k a week and that would probably be unlikely there I’d have thought for a player who would mostly sit on their bench.

If we can get around 30 million for those 2 *%^@ puffins Xhaka and Guendouzi I could certainly see us meeting the 52 million asking price for Ødegaard.


Is he really what we need if money is tight though?

He’s a silky player with a lovely soft touch and nice passing range but he’s more Özil than Alexis and I want to see more pace, power and dynamism added to the side.

Plus he likes to drift to the right and he gets in the way a bit of Pépé or Saka or whoever is playing there.

He’s a top talent, no doubt, but is he what we need at this precise moment in time?


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Post #530500  Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:47 pm 
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socrates wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
One thing that might make a difference in the Ødegaard situation is his salary. He was getting paid double with us what he was at Real Madrid and real now have to consider what to do as he has 2 years left on his contract. We could possibly offer him 135-160k a week and that would probably be unlikely there I’d have thought for a player who would mostly sit on their bench.

If we can get around 30 million for those 2 *%^@ puffins Xhaka and Guendouzi I could certainly see us meeting the 52 million asking price for Ødegaard.


Is he really what we need if money is tight though?

He’s a silky player with a lovely soft touch and nice passing range but he’s more Özil than Alexis and I want to see more pace, power and dynamism added to the side.

Plus he likes to drift to the right and he gets in the way a bit of Pépé or Saka or whoever is playing there.

He’s a top talent, no doubt, but is he what we need at this precise moment in time?


We are desperate for more quality in that position and I can’t see many better options. Also critically he can improve at his age and when he gets to know his team mates

Seems a realistic option, were not going to get Grealish or coutinho with no Europe right.


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Post #530501  Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:57 pm 
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socrates wrote:
Is he really what we need if money is tight though?

He’s a silky player with a lovely soft touch and nice passing range but he’s more Özil than Alexis and I want to see more pace, power and dynamism added to the side.

Have to disagree here. Ødegaard is not a quick player by any means, but I was well impressed with his work rate and pressing when he was here. He also showed a lot of leadership qualities for such a young player, driving the team on and giving directions to his teammates. That West Ham performance was the best example of that, it was not just about his delivery when putting players through to create chances, but the way he seemed to grab the game by scruff of the neck to make sure we got back into it.


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Post #530502  Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 1:20 am 
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Gaz from Oz wrote:
Had a look at some clips of Ruben Neves. A player who takes a couple of touches before distributing. I am not sure he is a quick player. How is this an improvement. Arseblog made a joke about Arteta getting in players that were just like him as a player. Joke or no joke that maybe a truth. Arteta was never more than a very ordinary footballer and one of the reasons we never competed at the highest level.

When he was made manager he was given too much power. The Saliba situation is a case in point. He should have been told, integrate him into the team not decide not to play him. He should say I want a. Restive midfielder and they should come to him with a couple of names but purchase who is right for the future of the club.

On another issue, AMN has said he has not been spoken to at the end of the season. How is that possible. There should have been a total debrief on every player. The transfer window is open - how do players know if they should be negotiating transfers. Arteta’s man management is appalling.


Something must have happened, beyond football, for Arteta to marginalise AMN. And that includes Saliba.

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Post #530503  Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 1:27 am 
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socrates wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
One thing that might make a difference in the Ødegaard situation is his salary. He was getting paid double with us what he was at Real Madrid and real now have to consider what to do as he has 2 years left on his contract. We could possibly offer him 135-160k a week and that would probably be unlikely there I’d have thought for a player who would mostly sit on their bench.

If we can get around 30 million for those 2 *%^@ puffins Xhaka and Guendouzi I could certainly see us meeting the 52 million asking price for Ødegaard.


Is he really what we need if money is tight though?

He’s a silky player with a lovely soft touch and nice passing range but he’s more Özil than Alexis and I want to see more pace, power and dynamism added to the side.

Plus he likes to drift to the right and he gets in the way a bit of Pépé or Saka or whoever is playing there.

He’s a top talent, no doubt, but is he what we need at this precise moment in time?


Glad you brought Alexis up. That guy was fantastic for us. A brave and driven player.

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Post #530504  Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:32 am 
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Angus Gunn moving from Southampton back to Norwich for £10m. This is Southampton’s 3rd choice GK for £10m, and we’re potentially selling Xhaka for just £15m.
Arsenal have made some good sales, Iwobi and ox, but we rarely seem to get anything like the market on so many of our sales. It can’t just be down to wages either because other top clubs are extracting proper fees. Ie Tomori going to Milan for £25m


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Post #530505  Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:39 am 
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Rich wrote:
Angus Gunn moving from Southampton back to Norwich for £10m. This is Southampton’s 3rd choice GK for £10m, and we’re potentially selling Xhaka for just £15m.
Arsenal have made some good sales, Iwobi and ox, but we rarely seem to get anything like the market on so many of our sales. It can’t just be down to wages either because other top clubs are extracting proper fees. Ie Tomori going to Milan for £25m


Hi Rich,

£15m, if true, is a joke figure for a player of his ability, age, experience, durability and professionalism.

It’s practically giving him away.


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Post #530506  Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:41 am 
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Rich wrote:
Angus Gunn moving from Southampton back to Norwich for £10m. This is Southampton’s 3rd choice GK for £10m, and we’re potentially selling Xhaka for just £15m.
Arsenal have made some good sales, Iwobi and ox, but we rarely seem to get anything like the market on so many of our sales. It can’t just be down to wages either because other top clubs are extracting proper fees. Ie Tomori going to Milan for £25m


1)It’s the contracts we historically offered players who are substandard. Tomori wasn’t on a 100k a week contract at chelsea more like 20 then his salary will go up to 72 at Milan apparently. At Arsenal it’s different bang! Duff players like Xhaka, Torreira and Kolasinac are instantly offered 100k plus contracts off the back of half a good season with their respective clubs that no other mug would pay. You will have to reduce the fee to get them off the books. We’ve literally been giving away players to release their contracts.

2) if the players are obviously bad you will struggle to shift them. There must be a reason so few clubs want to take a punt on Xhaka even at 18 million or whatever

3) there’s urgency on our part as we have to move these players on really quick or risk having another shocking season so if we accept 2 million or so less here and than we want but it buys us more Time in the market this summer then so be it. Some of these players are a noose round the club and more importantly managers neck.


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Post #530507  Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:46 am 
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Maybe I'm remembering things differently but I've rarely seen us get full valuation for players, especially the last several years. Our big players would force a sale to be fair but still, peripheral players who are wanted we get less than the reported or suggested valuation prior.

Anelka and one or two others are only ones I recall my raising an eyebrow of how much we got. Really? They are willing to pay that?!

It's why I posted an "I'll believe it when I see it" when Rich had a list of valuations for players. I believed those were the valuations but we don't seem to get full value.

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Post #530508  Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:53 am 
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At the end of the day there must be a reason nobody would take an 18 million punt on a player like this and only one club want him.

Do you think the fact he single handedly costed his side 9 points last season is attractive to potential buyers.

It’s the housing market right. You can only attain what the property is actually worth.


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Post #530509  Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:56 am 
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AmericanGooner wrote:
Maybe I'm remembering things differently but I've rarely seen us get full valuation for players, especially the last several years. Our big players would force a sale to be fair but still, peripheral players who are wanted we get less than the reported or suggested valuation prior.

Anelka and one or two others are only ones I recall my raising an eyebrow of how much we got. Really? They are willing to pay that?!

.

Iwobi you mad b******.


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Post #530510  Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:00 am 
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To be honest the one that really grates isn’t any of the transfers being talked about it, it was selling Cesc to Barcelona for just 29 million when he was easily a 45 to 50 mill type player at the time. Should have stuck our feet in the ground. No way Daniel Levy would have let himself get bullied like that, I’m aware the circumstances were tricky but it just wasn’t enough


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Post #530511  Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:07 am 
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Tomori is hardly a good comparison with Xhaka, Mustafi and Torreira though; he's an academy product who has never established himself with Chelsea, while the other three were brought in from good clubs to be starting players for us. They're naturally going to be earning a lot more. A better comparison would be Willock, and if we sell him we'd probably get more than Chelsea will get for Tomori.

To me, it seems we rarely sell from a position of strength. It's too often players forcing a move, running down their contract or not having a place in the squad and us wanting to free up space. Iwobi was sold when we didn't have to, as was Oxlade-Chamberlain, and those are two of the highest fees we've ever gotten. We waited too long with Sanchez, and I think the same can be said about AMN and Nketiah now.


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Post #530512  Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:09 am 
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Current house prices are routinely influenced by what the housing market is at the time. A depressed housing market (sometimes called a buyer’s market) will mean a property will be available for less than the figure that exactly the same house could have been sold for in a non-depressed housing market (sometimes called a seller’s market). This should lead to good bargains being available to buyer’s. The same principle will often apply to the current transfer market in football.


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Post #530513  Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:16 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
At the end of the day there must be a reason nobody would take an 18 million punt on a player like this and only one club want him.

There have been reports about other clubs being interested in Xhaka, but another way to look at it is that Mourinho is another top manager who rates Xhaka highly. So that's Wenger, Emery, Arteta, Mourinho, and add to that Hitzfeld and Petkovic for the national team. Think there's a fair bit of football knowledge between those six.


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Post #530514  Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:20 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
At the end of the day there must be a reason nobody would take an 18 million punt on a player like this and only one club want him.

Do you think the fact he single handedly costed his side 9 points last season is attractive to potential buyers.

It’s the housing market right. You can only attain what the property is actually worth.

Yes, but one would presumably also look at the benefit side (or opportunity cost side) of the equation too in establishing what a player or property is worth. Sure it doesn't have a pool and a fireplace, but its a proper house that has proven it won't fall down in a stiff breeze. Beats the hell out of being homeless.

I suspect reason we haven't sold Xhaka yet (if that is the intention), has something to do with the fact that it is 10 June. Similar reason to why we haven't yet completed our other transfer business.

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Post #530515  Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:22 am 
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Hazuki wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
At the end of the day there must be a reason nobody would take an 18 million punt on a player like this and only one club want him.

There have been reports about other clubs being interested in Xhaka, but another way to look at it is that Mourinho is another top manager who rates Xhaka highly. So that's Wenger, Emery, Arteta, Mourinho, and add to that Hitzfeld and Petkovic for the national team. Think there's a fair bit of football knowledge between those six.


Many of those managers inherited him and have to keep nice right they can’t publicly announce they don’t rate him? At the end of the day Arteta is selling him for a knockdown price to the first club coming along. He can’t rate him that highly he is letting him go with Time in his contract!


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Post #530516  Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:28 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Many of those managers inherited him and have to keep nice right they can’t publicly announce they don’t rate him? At the end of the day Arteta is selling him for a knockdown price to the first club coming along. He can’t rate him that highly he is letting him go with Time in his contract!

They could do what managers do with players they don't rate; play others instead and try to get rid. But they've all had Xhaka as a nailed on starter in their team (and I assume Mourinho will too) and praised him whenever given the opportunity. Arteta even went out of his way to convince Xhaka to stay when he first arrived and Xhaka had one foot out the door, but now Xhaka is pushing to leave (according to pretty much every single source that has reported on the story) and so he's allowed to.


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Post #530517  Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:33 am 
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Bernard wrote:
Current house prices are routinely driven by what the housing market is at the time. A depressed housing market or buyer’s market will mean a property will be worth less than the figure that exactly the same house could have been sold for in a non-depressed or seller’s housing market. This should lead to good bargains being available to buyer’s. The same principle will often apply to the current transfer market in football.

True. We've been trying to sell our house but decided to take it off the market because we'd only be able to get 50% of what the property is worth in the current market, and even then we'd be lucky to find a buyer. The difference is that the European football transfer market is likely to rebound quite rapidly.

Selling a player like Xhaka, who a) Arteta rates, b) is a known quantity, c) plays a role in the team for which we have no replacement on hand, just seems mad. Doing so at a cut-price is the least of it.

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Post #530518  Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:34 am 
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Hazuki wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
Many of those managers inherited him and have to keep nice right they can’t publicly announce they don’t rate him? At the end of the day Arteta is selling him for a knockdown price to the first club coming along. He can’t rate him that highly he is letting him go with Time in his contract!

They could do what managers do with players they don't rate; play others instead and try to get rid.


That’s not how the top managers do it though. It’s the Ferguson method right ? Pat them on the back and tell them they did a good job, tell the media they are doing well and there’s no problem (when it’s bloody obvious there is!) then make a note of all their sins and bang they are gone at the first opportunity when someone shows interest.


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Post #530519  Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:37 am 
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It’s not going to be a depressed market this summer though. Expect 100 million transfer for Kane and potentially grealish, rice and others

If Saka was put up for sale what do you reckon he would fetch. 50 or 60 I’d suggest? More ?

Then how can it be depressed if he’s also our player


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Post #530520  Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:37 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Hazuki wrote:
There have been reports about other clubs being interested in Xhaka, but another way to look at it is that Mourinho is another top manager who rates Xhaka highly. So that's Wenger, Emery, Arteta, Mourinho, and add to that Hitzfeld and Petkovic for the national team. Think there's a fair bit of football knowledge between those six.


Many of those managers inherited him and have to keep nice right they can’t publicly announce they don’t rate him?

You don't knock him publically but why on earth pick him for every game if you don't rate him? By your logic, Arteta would have picked Özil and Mustafi for every game to 'keep nice right'.

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