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Post #530441  Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 10:26 pm 
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Rich wrote:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-9661925/amp/Brighton-place-50m-price-tag-Ben-White-amid-Manchester-Utd-Arsenal-Liverpool.html?__twitter_impression=true

Brighton put £50m price tag on Ben White. He’s played 100 odd minutes for England.
Now I know price tags in the media and what actually happens aren’t the same thing but there must be some club PR where you get a whiff of teams interested in your player so you put out there an huge price tag to ward off those clubs or be happy if they paid it. It’s remarkable how often those fantasy price tags just get repeated until they become accepted.
If Ben White has a £50m
Price tag why shouldn’t Arsenal be saying that’s what Willock’s price tag is or that’s what AMN price tag is?


I guess because we aren’t as fussed about keeping them. Brighton fended off Leeds interest in Ben White at the beginning of the season and turned down a 30m bid. They see him as probably their best asset or something close to it.

I have a strong suspicion Arteta thinks Willock isn’t good enough to play for him. Or can’t adapt to his tactics, which amounts to the same thing.


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Post #530442  Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 1:16 am 
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Arteta has the ultimate right to decide who he wants in his team. And with it, he also has the ultimate responsibility for any poor result and/or lack of success from his team. I hope he decide to include Saliba, Willock and AMN next season, especially Saliba.

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Post #530443  Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 4:34 am 
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gooner7 wrote:
Arteta has the ultimate right to decide who he wants in his team. And with it, he also has the ultimate responsibility for any poor result and/or lack of success from his team. I hope he decide to include Saliba, Willock and AMN next season, especially Saliba.

Is ‘ultimate responsibility’ for results the appropriate term for an employee? Could one argue it is the ‘ultimate responsibility’ of the individual with ‘ultimate’ power and/or control over not only who works at Arsenal but what their budget is for whatever job someone (albeit you’re talking of Arteta) has? If so, surely that makes it Stan Kroenke’s ‘ultimate’ responsibility?

I’m not saying what is unarguably or undoubtedly the right answer, by the way. I’m just asking a question where the correct reply could feasibly be different to your conclusion.


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Post #530444  Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 7:10 am 
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Zed wrote:
socrates wrote:

Hi Zed,

I hope we get a decent fee and don’t just give him away.

Hi Soc,
Seems Roma offering £10M below Arsenal's £20M-£30M amount.


Hi Zed,

We need to get tough. He's the swiss captain in the peak of his career. He should be £25m.


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Post #530445  Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 7:12 am 
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Rich wrote:
Every time I read a journalist report an Arsenal player leaving the supposed price tag we've set for our player always seems totally reasonable or under priced.
Xhaka £20m
Bellerin £20m
Willock £20m
AMN £20m
Nketiah £15m
These are from journalists who do seem to have knowledge of Arsenal as well.


Hi Rich,

I read that the fee for Xhaka is 20m euros + add-ons. Not terrible but probably below the market rate.

If you get that fee for Xhaka and then splurge £35m on Ruben Neves it makes little sense. As good a player as Neves is his form last season was not that of a £35m player. £25m max.


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Post #530446  Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 7:18 am 
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socrates wrote:
Rich wrote:
Every time I read a journalist report an Arsenal player leaving the supposed price tag we've set for our player always seems totally reasonable or under priced.
Xhaka £20m
Bellerin £20m
Willock £20m
AMN £20m
Nketiah £15m
These are from journalists who do seem to have knowledge of Arsenal as well.


Hi Rich,

I read that the fee for Xhaka is 20m euros + add-ons. Not terrible but probably below the market rate.

If you get that fee for Xhaka and then splurge £35m on Ruben Neves it makes little sense. As good a player as Neves is his form last season was not that of a £35m player. £25m max.

The market seems to be depressed, apart from for anyone that Arsenal want to buy.

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Post #530447  Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 7:41 am 
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long time gooner wrote:
socrates wrote:

Hi Rich,

I read that the fee for Xhaka is 20m euros + add-ons. Not terrible but probably below the market rate.

If you get that fee for Xhaka and then splurge £35m on Ruben Neves it makes little sense. As good a player as Neves is his form last season was not that of a £35m player. £25m max.

The market seems to be depressed, apart from for anyone that Arsenal want to buy.


Hi ltg,

As a wiseman once said......sell low, buy high! Oh, hold on a minute.


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Post #530448  Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 7:56 am 
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socrates wrote:
long time gooner wrote:
The market seems to be depressed, apart from for anyone that Arsenal want to buy.


Hi ltg,

As a wiseman once said......sell low, buy high! Oh, hold on a minute.

The opposite of Brentford you mean.

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Post #530449  Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 8:15 am 
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lol...the ending though.


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Post #530450  Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 8:17 am 
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Bernard wrote:
gooner7 wrote:
Arteta has the ultimate right to decide who he wants in his team. And with it, he also has the ultimate responsibility for any poor result and/or lack of success from his team. I hope he decide to include Saliba, Willock and AMN next season, especially Saliba.

Is ‘ultimate responsibility’ for results the appropriate term for an employee? Could one argue it is the ‘ultimate responsibility’ of the individual with ‘ultimate’ power and/or control over not only who works at Arsenal but what their budget is for whatever job someone (albeit you’re talking of Arteta) has? If so, surely that makes it Stan Kroenke’s ‘ultimate’ responsibility?

I’m not saying what is unarguably or undoubtedly the right answer, by the way. I’m just asking a question where the correct reply could feasibly be different to your conclusion.


Yes, ultimate is the intended word in my message. Perhaps I should have added poor result and/or lack of success from his team, in the matches. That was the context of my message. On the flipside, and to stay positive, he is also the ultimate reason when we win on the field. He choose the team, he choose the tactics and he alters as and when he see how things are going for the team.

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Post #530451  Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 9:01 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
The fee being reported is 25 million euros plus add ons.

I'd take a packet of rainbow skittles for him so that seems sufficient

Image


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Post #530452  Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 9:01 am 
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gooner7 wrote:
Bernard wrote:
Is ‘ultimate responsibility’ for results the appropriate term for an employee? Could one argue it is the ‘ultimate responsibility’ of the individual with ‘ultimate’ power and/or control over not only who works at Arsenal but what their budget is for whatever job someone (albeit you’re talking of Arteta) has? If so, surely that makes it Stan Kroenke’s ‘ultimate’ responsibility?

I’m not saying what is unarguably or undoubtedly the right answer, by the way. I’m just asking a question where the correct reply could feasibly be different to your conclusion.

Yes, ultimate is the intended word in my message. Perhaps I should have added poor result and/or lack of success from his team, in the matches. That was the context of my message. On the flipside, and to stay positive, he is also the ultimate reason when we win on the field. He choose the team, he choose the tactics and he alters as and when he see how things are going for the team.

In that case you’re mistaken. The man with ultimate control and power over what happens at Arsenal can only be Kroenke, not Arteta who is an employee that Kroenke can keep in post or sack as well as set th budget he works to.


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Post #530453  Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 12:47 pm 
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Random pic in my feed...I always like seeing two or more randomly iconic people in a photo.


Attachments:


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Post #530454  Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 1:04 pm 
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AmericanGooner wrote:
Random pic in my feed...I always like seeing two or more randomly iconic people in a photo.

Image

Cool - Harry Belafonte and Denzel Washington


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Post #530455  Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 1:28 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
Is ‘ultimate responsibility’ for results the appropriate term for an employee? Could one argue it is the ‘ultimate responsibility’ of the individual with ‘ultimate’ power and/or control over not only who works at Arsenal but what their budget is for whatever job someone (albeit you’re talking of Arteta) has? If so, surely that makes it Stan Kroenke’s ‘ultimate’ responsibility? I’m not saying what is unarguably or undoubtedly the right answer, by the way. I’m just asking a question where the correct reply could feasibly be different to your conclusion.
Just ask yourself if the Prime Minister is responsible whenever a civil servant does a bad job. That might answer your question.

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Post #530456  Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 1:41 pm 
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old man of hoy wrote:
Bernard wrote:
Is ‘ultimate responsibility’ for results the appropriate term for an employee? Could one argue it is the ‘ultimate responsibility’ of the individual with ‘ultimate’ power and/or control over not only who works at Arsenal but what their budget is for whatever job someone (albeit you’re talking of Arteta) has? If so, surely that makes it Stan Kroenke’s ‘ultimate’ responsibility? I’m not saying what is unarguably or undoubtedly the right answer, by the way. I’m just asking a question where the correct reply could feasibly be different to your conclusion.
Just ask yourself if the Prime Minister is responsible whenever a civil servant does a bad job. That might answer your question.

No it’s not something I would hold against the Prime Minister. But I would expect the mechanisms to be in place where training is given so that the mistake isn’t repeated, or if it is the individual is either found an alternative job he or she is more capable of performing competently or, at the end of the day, is eventually dismissed.

If those mechanisms aren’t in place within the civil service structure, and no attempt is being made to ensure they are, I would suggest it’s relevant to ask questions of firstly the responsible minister and eventually the Prime Minister who has appointed the minister involved.


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Post #530457  Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 2:08 pm 
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https://insidefutbol.com/2021/06/08/rom ... ka/512023/

I have never thought Xhaka would command such attention from Mourinho. Happy for him to be regarded highly.

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Post #530458  Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 2:10 pm 
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https://www.anfieldcentral.co.uk/posts/ ... d-willock/

Michael Mongie with his dumb assertion

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Post #530459  Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 2:42 pm 
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gooner7 wrote:
https://www.anfieldcentral.co.uk/posts/liverpool-can-kill-two-birds-with-one-stone-by-signing-saka-and-willock/

Michael Mongie with his dumb assertion

I can’t argue with this paragraph he wrote:

“Don’t get me wrong – Arsenal are a fantastic club and have one of the biggest fanbases in the world but with their current ownership, they aren’t going to challenge for top honours for several years to come.“

To be honest, considering that observation I think it’s only a matter of time before other big clubs start looking at Saka. Furthermore, considering that observation it won’t be a huge shock if Saka does get his head turned. Unless he extends it, his contract expires in 2024. I am totally confident Saka will be an Arsenal player next season, 2021/22. Then he’ll only be two years off the end of his contract. Because of that I’m not as sure he will still be an Arsenal player in the 2022/23 season, and even less so in 2023/24.


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Post #530460  Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 3:11 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
gooner7 wrote:
https://www.anfieldcentral.co.uk/posts/liverpool-can-kill-two-birds-with-one-stone-by-signing-saka-and-willock/

Michael Mongie with his dumb assertion

I can’t argue with this paragraph he wrote:

“Don’t get me wrong – Arsenal are a fantastic club and have one of the biggest fanbases in the world but with their current ownership, they aren’t going to challenge for top honours for several years to come.“

To be honest, considering that observation I think it’s only a matter of time before other big clubs start looking at Saka. Furthermore, considering that observation it won’t be a huge shock if Saka does get his head turned. Unless he extends it, his contract expires in 2024. I am totally confident Saka will be an Arsenal player next season, 2021/22. Then he’ll only be two years off the end of his contract. Because of that I’m not as sure he will still be an Arsenal player in the 2022/23 season, and even less so in 2023/24.

Sadly that all seems highly plausible.

It’s the way that it’s bound to go unless we start mounting sustained credible challenges real soon.

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Post #530461  Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 5:18 pm 
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old man of hoy wrote:
Bernard wrote:
Is ‘ultimate responsibility’ for results the appropriate term for an employee? Could one argue it is the ‘ultimate responsibility’ of the individual with ‘ultimate’ power and/or control over not only who works at Arsenal but what their budget is for whatever job someone (albeit you’re talking of Arteta) has? If so, surely that makes it Stan Kroenke’s ‘ultimate’ responsibility? I’m not saying what is unarguably or undoubtedly the right answer, by the way. I’m just asking a question where the correct reply could feasibly be different to your conclusion.
Just ask yourself if the Prime Minister is responsible whenever a civil servant does a bad job. That might answer your question.

Depends how many jam roles he’s appointed in his cabinet.

There are many parallels between Kroenke and Boris Johnson actually.

Both unqualified to do their job, habitual liars prepared to wreck the thing they pretend to care about for personal gain and only motivated by money.

Baby josh and Boris should meet up to compare notes


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Post #530462  Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 5:40 pm 
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gooner7 wrote:
https://insidefutbol.com/2021/06/08/roma-put-in-improved-bid-for-granit-xhaka/512023/

I have never thought Xhaka would command such attention from Mourinho. Happy for him to be regarded highly.


Highly ? Wot one team potentially interested who probably are only so because of his hugely knocked down price because he’s mugged himself off so much!


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Post #530463  Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 8:07 pm 
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gooner7 wrote:
https://www.anfieldcentral.co.uk/posts/liverpool-can-kill-two-birds-with-one-stone-by-signing-saka-and-willock/

Michael Mongie with his dumb assertion

Might as well go all in. Everyone else seems to chip away at the pie. Being we have to sell before buying. But some journos like to rock the boat. Do agree about the paragraph Bernard mentioned though in this.

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Post #530464  Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 8:12 pm 
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warrior wrote:
AmericanGooner wrote:
Random pic in my feed...I always like seeing two or more randomly iconic people in a photo.

Image

Cool - Harry Belafonte and Denzel Washington

Sidney Poitier and Miles Davis

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Post #530465  Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 8:22 pm 
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gooner7 wrote:
https://insidefutbol.com/2021/06/08/roma-put-in-improved-bid-for-granit-xhaka/512023/

I have never thought Xhaka would command such attention from Mourinho. Happy for him to be regarded highly.

Go on Xhaka, "go Hollywood" same as Mourinho did.
Will explain the Hollywood bit later. :angel4:

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Post #530466  Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 11:20 pm 
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Zed wrote:
warrior wrote:
Image

Cool - Harry Belafonte and Denzel Washington

Sidney Poitier and Miles Davis

Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain and Kieran Gibbs

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Post #530467  Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 12:27 am 
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Vince Ordinaire wrote:
Zed wrote:
Sidney Poitier and Miles Davis

Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain and Kieran Gibbs

Welcome to the forum, Andre Marriner.

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Post #530468  Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 12:34 am 
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Bernard wrote:
gooner7 wrote:
https://www.anfieldcentral.co.uk/posts/liverpool-can-kill-two-birds-with-one-stone-by-signing-saka-and-willock/

Michael Mongie with his dumb assertion

I can’t argue with this paragraph he wrote:

“Don’t get me wrong – Arsenal are a fantastic club and have one of the biggest fanbases in the world but with their current ownership, they aren’t going to challenge for top honours for several years to come.“

To be honest, considering that observation I think it’s only a matter of time before other big clubs start looking at Saka. Furthermore, considering that observation it won’t be a huge shock if Saka does get his head turned. Unless he extends it, his contract expires in 2024. I am totally confident Saka will be an Arsenal player next season, 2021/22. Then he’ll only be two years off the end of his contract. Because of that I’m not as sure he will still be an Arsenal player in the 2022/23 season, and even less so in 2023/24.


I do agree with you. We have a high risk of losing our better players. Just not next season for Saka (yet).

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Post #530469  Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 4:53 am 
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mcquilkie wrote:
Vince Ordinaire wrote:
Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain and Kieran Gibbs

Welcome to the forum, Andre Marriner.

That’s a name from the past isn’t it? By which I don’t mean Andre Marriner.


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Post #530470  Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 5:21 am 
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Bernard wrote:
mcquilkie wrote:
Welcome to the forum, Andre Marriner.

That’s a name from the past isn’t it? By which I don’t mean Andre Marriner.

True! I should have said, 'Welcome back, Vince,' as well. It was rude of me not to.

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Post #530471  Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:38 am 
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Smith Rowe is close to agreeing a new contract until 2026


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Post #530472  Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:24 am 
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Dan Friedkin is owner and president of AS Roma. He's a businessman and film director. His company, Imperative Entertainment, since 2014, is a studio in Santa Monica, California. Currently Imperative Ent. is producing Killers of the Flower Moon, directed by Martin Scorcese, starring Leo DiCaprio and Robert De Niro.
Friedkin's net worth is $4.2B.
Looked up AS Roma owner when Mourhino became manager.

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Post #530473  Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:33 am 
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Welcome back Vince. It seems ages since you last posted.


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Post #530474  Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:35 am 
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Daniel Ek to submit a new bid of over £2 billion.

I just can’t see the Kroenkes letting go somehow. Not unless the offer gets really tasty.


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Post #530475  Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:35 am 
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Zed wrote:
Dan Friedkin is owner and president of AS Roma. He's a businessman and film director. His company, Imperative Entertainment, since 2014, is a studio in Santa Monica, California. Currently Imperative Ent. is producing Killers of the Flower Moon, directed by Martin Scorcese, starring Leo DiCaprio and Robert De Niro.
Friedkin's net worth is $4.2B.
Looked up AS Roma owner when Mourhino became manager.

Hence the "gone Hollywood" in earlier post.

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Post #530476  Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:37 am 
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socrates wrote:
Daniel Ek to submit a new bid of over £2 billion.

I just can’t see the Kroenkes letting go somehow. Not unless the offer gets really tasty.


Ek should keep piling on the pressure. Give them an offer they can't refuse.

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Post #530477  Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:38 am 
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mcquilkie wrote:
Vince Ordinaire wrote:
Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain and Kieran Gibbs

Welcome to the forum, Andre Marriner.

Been a long time Vince.

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Post #530478  Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 8:12 am 
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socrates wrote:
Daniel Ek to submit a new bid of over £2 billion.

I just can’t see the Kroenkes letting go somehow. Not unless the offer gets really tasty.

What price would Kroenke be willing to sell at ? 2.5? That’s more than current value right ? 3 definitely.

I think LTG and others touched on this yesterday and this season is make or break as it just feels that if we don’t get back in the champions league soon we could have years in the wilderness approaching with players aware that Arsenal are no longer a competitive entity and leaving or not joining. That causes Kroenke a problem as no amount of PR or deflection from incoming transfers will convince our fans in his ownership.

Maybe It could be time


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TOP GUN wrote:
socrates wrote:
Daniel Ek to submit a new bid of over £2 billion.

I just can’t see the Kroenkes letting go somehow. Not unless the offer gets really tasty.

What price would Kroenke be willing to sell at ? 2.5? That’s more than current value right ? 3 definitely.

I think LTG and others touched on this yesterday and this season is make or break as it just feels that if we don’t get back in the champions league soon we could have years in the wilderness approaching with players aware that Arsenal are no longer a competitive entity and leaving or not joining. That causes Kroenke a problem as no amount of PR or deflection from incoming transfers will convince our fans in his ownership.

Maybe It could be time


Hi TG,

It’s definitely time from an Arsenal point of view, I’m just not sure Ek will be able to bid £2.5 billion + and still have the money to make big investments in the team. Unless he has some other billionaire backers supporting him.


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Post #530480  Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 8:33 am 
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Had a look at some clips of Ruben Neves. A player who takes a couple of touches before distributing. I am not sure he is a quick player. How is this an improvement. Arseblog made a joke about Arteta getting in players that were just like him as a player. Joke or no joke that maybe a truth. Arteta was never more than a very ordinary footballer and one of the reasons we never competed at the highest level.

When he was made manager he was given too much power. The Saliba situation is a case in point. He should have been told, integrate him into the team not decide not to play him. He should say I want a. Restive midfielder and they should come to him with a couple of names but purchase who is right for the future of the club.

On another issue, AMN has said he has not been spoken to at the end of the season. How is that possible. There should have been a total debrief on every player. The transfer window is open - how do players know if they should be negotiating transfers. Arteta’s man management is appalling.

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