Fixtures Saturday February 15th - Leicester City - King Power Stadium - 12:30 Pm

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       Injuries                 Steve Gleiber



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Post #397481  Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2025 8:05 pm 
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1 win in 6 with Partey at RB, I don’t massively blame him but Arteta must see what it does to us elsewhere. Kiwior should have played


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Post #397482  Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2025 8:09 pm 
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1.7 goals per game when Saliba doesn’t play. 0.8 per game when he does.

It’s not necessarily about the best players missing with injury it’s those where you get cluster injuries or have little cover.

Gravenberch has been a great find in the def mid position for Liverpool but it was a massive problem for them last season and they hadn’t solved it, an injury to gravenberch messes with their entire system


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Post #397483  Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2025 8:10 pm 
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Rich wrote:
1979gooner wrote:
Agree.

Marginal decisions, lack of attacking depth and injuries.

Call me paranoid but that Havertz goal doesn't get disallowed for Liverpool

Is like to agree but I can’t, the rules are clear any touch on the hand by the goalscorer is ruled out. It’s a cop out law because refs were too inconsistent judging what was and wasn’t handball so they say they all are for strikers scoring but that would not be handball in any other circumstance. If the flick off Havertz had hit the bar and someone else tapped it in it would count


Fair. It's a dumb cop out of a rule.


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Post #397484  Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2025 8:17 pm 
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1.7 goals per game when Saliba doesn’t play. 0.8 per game when he does.

It’s not necessarily about the best players missing with injury it’s those where you get cluster injuries or have little cover.

Gravenberch has been a great find in the def mid position for Liverpool but it was a massive problem for them last season and they hadn’t solved it, an injury to gravenberch messes with their entire system


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Post #397485  Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2025 8:18 pm 
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The games we haven’t won with Partey at RB. Again seriously unlucky that it falls on 5 tough games here. Were this the likes of Southampton or Leicester we’d have been able to manage better.


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Post #397486  Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2025 8:19 pm 
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The squad needs an injection. I actually thought Trossard and Martinelli were good today, both had the beating of their full back but we can’t play them every game. Kai works his socks off for the team and he can’t play every game.

A striker and a wide player must come in before the end of the window


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Post #397487  Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2025 8:41 pm 
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Watkins finish an inch higher doesn’t go in. If it hits Havertz body not arm we win, we hit the post and then Martinez scrambles to save on the line.

It’s all fine margins. Now, these fine margins happen in a lot of games but the best teams get the win despite them, but we’re just not in that mode where we can win games easily.

If you look across this entire league season and try to find any marginal moment, bit of luck, things that go our way that our out of our hands you’d struggle to find anything. But the other way, my word I’ve never known a season like it


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Post #397488  Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2025 8:48 pm 
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This is the ball coming off the post from Merino’s late shot, it comes back towards 3 Arsenal players but falls in the only spot a Villa player can challenge for it before we tap in to an empty net.

Run of the ball, fine margins etc. you notice them more when you don’t win of course but we need them when we’re down to the bare bones and we’re getting nothing


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Post #397489  Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2025 8:48 pm 
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.
All manner of excuses will be put forward for our failure to secure maximum points , injuries , bad luck , the position of Ursa Major ; but Villa had all that .

I was thinking at one stage how poor Villa were then heard the commentator say they were without Barkley and McGinn .

Our mindset needs an overhaul , we go 2-0 up and switch on the auto pilot then even when pulled back to 2 -2 ; 88 minutes we are stroking the ball languidly around at the back like we are 4-0 up

:36angers: FFS Hail Mary the bloody ball forward .

Our squad needs to train with Bournemouth for a fortnight ; their style of play v Newcastle ... :laughing7: My God ; it is the advance of the rocket propelled army ants


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Post #397490  Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2025 8:55 pm 
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Nunez made this foul whilst on a yellow card. It was so late it wouldn’t have changed the result but this is a clear second yellow and he’d be suspended for their next game.
Ridiculous compared to what we had Rice and Trossard sent off for. Kavangh the ref who sent off Rice and said ‘I’ve got no choice’ on var now realises he does have a choice because he refused to send off Kamara today


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Post #397491  Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2025 9:24 pm 
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So frustrating that a club that don’t deserve it, a club that’s broken every rule can have a few bad results and then just drop £200m in the January window. To try to drag them back to somewhere respectable. Imagine what £200m would do for us now. Sesko, Zubimendi and Williams with spare change


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Post #397492  Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2025 10:21 pm 
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Rich wrote:

Injuries and luck is the only thing separating us and Liverpool. We’ve seen hat happens when Liverpool get injuries they don’t even get 70 points and finish 5th


It's not luck. Liverpool have been the best team in the league this season by miles. Their attacking play is superb.

Bad luck was not the overriding factor in today's game either. Yes, Merino's shot off the post was unlucky. Villa smacked one off the post too. But both Merino and Partey made mistakes which cost us goals. Partey's was just rubbish defending and it cost us the points.

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Post #397493  Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2025 10:23 pm 
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If they have been given preferential treatment isn't it up to the rest of the clubs in the FA to raise a united complaint against City being treated differently?

All of them, and the clubs that have been relegated or had points deducted, it's up to them to raise their voices in complaint.

Then the FA might think again about treating them differently.


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Post #397494  Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2025 11:00 pm 
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https://x.com/premierleague/status/1880 ... -j6VVZXEoA

On the balance of play Liverpool certainly deserved to beat Brentford but the bounce of the ball mattered at the decisive moment. Trent’s cross is blocked and it ricochets perfectly back in to his path with the defender now beaten to find a better cross for Darwin to score.


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Post #397495  Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2025 11:05 pm 
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dec wrote:
Rich wrote:

Injuries and luck is the only thing separating us and Liverpool. We’ve seen hat happens when Liverpool get injuries they don’t even get 70 points and finish 5th


It's not luck. Liverpool have been the best team in the league this season by miles. Their attacking play is superb.

Bad luck was not the overriding factor in today's game either. Yes, Merino's shot off the post was unlucky. Villa smacked one off the post too. But both Merino and Partey made mistakes which cost us goals. Partey's was just rubbish defending and it cost us the points.

And yet Liverpool only have 7 more goals than us despite this superb attacking play. We’ve missed Ødegaard for 2 months and Saka for 3 months and a host of other injuries that leave us with the bare bones, 3 crazy red cards that we’ve proven should never have been given based on how the other 19 teams are reffed and still Liverpool’s superb attacking play is just 7 goals better.
Yes we’ve made mistakes but I just simply do not believe that without our injuries and a group of awful decisions that we aren’t better than them - and City can say the same. They are benefitting hugely from a very strange set of circumstances to the two best teams in the country


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Post #397496  Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2025 11:07 pm 
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bubblechris wrote:
If they have been given preferential treatment isn't it up to the rest of the clubs in the FA to raise a united complaint against City being treated differently?

All of them, and the clubs that have been relegated or had points deducted, it's up to them to raise their voices in complaint.

Then the FA might think again about treating them differently.

Sadly City have a group of clubs in their corner now.


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Post #397497  Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2025 11:26 pm 
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I don't think the Harvetz goal was handball. His arm went over the ball and it hit him on the ribcage. Millimeters in it and far from a clear and obvious error if they'd bothered to watch it more than once. If it had hit his arm then the flight of the ball would have been very different.


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Post #397498  Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2025 11:29 pm 
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Look at the goals Ødegaard has scored for us in his career, he’s not taking up those central positions anymore either outside the box or inside for cut backs etc. he’s so far wide in our build up, is it the loss of partnership with Saka? I don’t know but he’s been ineffective in so many games now


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Post #397499  Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2025 4:25 am 
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grantyboy wrote:
I don't think the Harvetz goal was handball. His arm went over the ball and it hit him on the ribcage. Millimeters in it and far from a clear and obvious error if they'd bothered to watch it more than once. If it had hit his arm then the flight of the ball would have been very different.


Attachment:
Havertz.png

If his rib cage is located about twenty millimeters from his wrist then you are correct ...... check it out about 1. 30 in ....

https://www.skysportnow.co.nz/video/743 ... -ars-v-avl


Havertz's swivels with his arm slightly out which deflects the ball in . He doesn't do it consciously but it hits his arm .

Would you be happy to award a goal if we had conceded ; ball bouncing off Bailey or Watkins ?


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Post #397500  Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2025 5:42 am 
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grantyboy wrote:
I don't think the Harvetz goal was handball. His arm went over the ball and it hit him on the ribcage. Millimeters in it and far from a clear and obvious error if they'd bothered to watch it more than once. If it had hit his arm then the flight of the ball would have been very different.


Attachment:
Havertz.png

Yes. It struck me at the time. The images we were shown were not clear at all. Instead it was hurried over. The commentators were also keen for the goal to be disallowed.

You would have thought we would have had five minutes of replays trying to get a definitive shot, with freeze frames and super slowmo, as they do for offside or out of play. Its not just a check: they are overturning the decision. So it has to be a clear and obvious handball.

Very strange that they are not taking the time to check properly, yet again.

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Post #397501  Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2025 6:18 am 
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Neto, Kiwior, Jorginho, Trossard are the only players not to have to miss a game with an injury this season


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Post #397502  Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2025 6:35 am 
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Can’t wait for Sky Spoets to dedicate a segment to saying the handball law by the goalscorer is a law that must be changed. It’s the rule but it’s only the rule because refs kept cocking up what was and wasn’t handball. In no other situation would the touch by Havertz be called handball. Joelinton intercepted a pass with his hand, was deemed accidental and one pass and Gordon was in and scored. It’s a cop out rule for officials incompetence - at least they can be consistent. Or perhaps we go the other way and say any time the ball hits the arm in the box by a defender it should be a penalty, takes subjectivity out of it and it’s fair to everyone - everyone would say that is unfair on the defender though…..so why is it different


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Post #397503  Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2025 6:53 am 
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8 goals from 39 shots - opponents last 6 games
9 goals from 104 shots - Arsenal last 6 games

We’re in the worst of all worlds currently, not finishing the dominance we’ve had in every single one of those games and allowing our opponents maximum reward from minimal input


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Post #397504  Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2025 7:26 am 
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We needed another attacker at the start of the season but the current injuries are a massive factor, we moan about only having Sterling to bring off the bench but if Saka, Jesus and Nwaneri are fit then Sterling probably doesn’t even make the bench at all!


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Post #397505  Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2025 7:44 am 
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At what point in the last20 years have we not felt our squad has been left short for the season ahead. I don’t think that’s just greedy fans always wanting another signing, it’s the basic stuff like ensuring there is cover for each position


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Post #397506  Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2025 7:49 am 
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Rich wrote:
Can’t wait for Sky Spoets to dedicate a segment to saying the handball law by the goalscorer is a law that must be changed. It’s the rule but it’s only the rule because refs kept cocking up what was and wasn’t handball. In no other situation would the touch by Havertz be called handball. Joelinton intercepted a pass with his hand, was deemed accidental and one pass and Gordon was in and scored. It’s a cop out rule for officials incompetence - at least they can be consistent. Or perhaps we go the other way and say any time the ball hits the arm in the box by a defender it should be a penalty, takes subjectivity out of it and it’s fair to everyone - everyone would say that is unfair on the defender though…..so why is it different

It makes no sense. What is the threshold for a foul should be the same whereever it is committed, and regardless of the game state. This is exactly why it is such a muddle. We have drifted into a situation where something is more or less of a foul because it is in a situation that has an important bearing on the game. And it is even worse that it is a different rule for attackers and defenders about what constitutes a handball.

With the Havertz one: its a bit like a fine edge in cricket. Yes it is adjacent to his arm but is there any footage showing definite deviation?

One has to say that Havertz is clumsy, though. He needs to get his arms out of the way in situations like that. Gabriel and Saliba could give him some lessons in that regard, and in how to head a ball (keeping eyes open is a good start). These are not isolated incidents.

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Post #397507  Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2025 8:04 am 
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Rich wrote:
At what point in the last20 years have we not felt our squad has been left short for the season ahead. I don’t think that’s just greedy fans always wanting another signing, it’s the basic stuff like ensuring there is cover for each position

After the undefeated season, Wenger was always one to two players short of requirements. Since then every season. The only reason Arteta became an Arsenal player was he was a panic buy. He was a journeyman and never good enough to win a title with in my opinion. I think Merino is a clone.

We will struggle to win an EPL title with a number of our squad members. Just to complicate any buys: Trossard wants to leave and won't sign a contract, so we need some real quality incomers in the forwards. We don't have top quality creative midfielders and I include Ødegaard when saying that. You can see why Real didn't rate him at the top level. Good, some days very good but not a goal scorer, free kicks are terrible and rarely threads that unbelieveable pass into the box. Despite this we have gone close but frankly we never replaced Xhaka and we have too many slow players. This should be our year as City fall over, Liverpool have a new manager and there is no one else around to challenge. We got some ordinary players in this season and I suspect it may be the reason Edu moved on. Merino and the full back Calafiora are clearly Arteta buys. As was Havertz. You can tell his buys : he plays them no matter what. Remember back to Willian. Not one of them is that really big talent.

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Post #397508  Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2025 8:26 am 
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The handball rule is certainly a mess. Would that have been given nas a handball on the field of play? No!

So it sdhouldn't be given so in the penalty area.

Yes there are circumstances where use of the arm away from the body has guided a ball into the net and it would not have been argued even by us.

But if this would or should not have been given in open play then it can't be a penalty.

If the body is not being made bigger then how can it be given?

Change the law :36angers: :20hospitals:


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Post #397509  Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2025 8:45 am 
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Rich wrote:
1 win in 6 with Partey at RB, I don’t massively blame him but Arteta must see what it does to us elsewhere. Kiwior should have played


Hi Rich,

That's quite a damning statistic and does make you wonder why Arteta persists with it. Options are limited but there are still some available to him.


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Post #397510  Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2025 8:47 am 
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With hindsight our summer window has been a bit of a disaster. Two players who don't really look up to the level required, even as back-ups, and one who looks a talent but has been plagued by injury and might even lose his place to a young kid.


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Post #397511  Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2025 8:54 am 
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socrates wrote:
With hindsight our summer window has been a bit of a disaster. Two players who don't really look up to the level required, even as back-ups, and one who looks a talent but has been plagued by injury and might even lose his place to a young kid.


We all bemoaned Xhaka's lack of athleticism and pace and only a move to a more advanced position where it didn't matter so much saved his Arsenal career. Yet, we sign a player who looks almost exactly the same.....technically very good but lacking athleticism and pace.

Two of our midfield yesterday are quite slow and far too easily bypassed when the opposition transitions.

I do sometimes wonder about Arteta's choice of players.


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Post #397512  Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2025 9:35 am 
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The goal was correctly ruled out. The ball hit his arm which changed its trajectory passed Martinez. It also makes absolute sense that you can't score with your hand. There's no controversy here.

https://www.skysports.com/football/vide ... r-handball

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Post #397513  Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2025 9:41 am 
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:36angers: Match of the day - it hit his stomach


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Post #397514  Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2025 9:42 am 
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Rich wrote:
dec wrote:

It's not luck. Liverpool have been the best team in the league this season by miles. Their attacking play is superb.

Bad luck was not the overriding factor in today's game either. Yes, Merino's shot off the post was unlucky. Villa smacked one off the post too. But both Merino and Partey made mistakes which cost us goals. Partey's was just rubbish defending and it cost us the points.

And yet Liverpool only have 7 more goals than us despite this superb attacking play. We’ve missed Ødegaard for 2 months and Saka for 3 months and a host of other injuries that leave us with the bare bones, 3 crazy red cards that we’ve proven should never have been given based on how the other 19 teams are reffed and still Liverpool’s superb attacking play is just 7 goals better.
Yes we’ve made mistakes but I just simply do not believe that without our injuries and a group of awful decisions that we aren’t better than them - and City can say the same. They are benefitting hugely from a very strange set of circumstances to the two best teams in the country

Saka may be scheduled to be out for 3 months but right now he's only missed a month while Liverpool are 6 points clear with a game in hand. The 7 goal difference in goals scored translates to 16 goals over a full season. It is quite a difference and just moving away from the stats and watching the games, Liverpool quite clearly play far better attacking football than we do. I wish they didn't, but they obviously so.

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Post #397515  Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2025 9:55 am 
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socrates wrote:
socrates wrote:
With hindsight our summer window has been a bit of a disaster. Two players who don't really look up to the level required, even as back-ups, and one who looks a talent but has been plagued by injury and might even lose his place to a young kid.


We all bemoaned Xhaka's lack of athleticism and pace and only a move to a more advanced position where it didn't matter so much saved his Arsenal career. Yet, we sign a player who looks almost exactly the same.....technically very good but lacking athleticism and pace.

Two of our midfield yesterday are quite slow and far too easily bypassed when the opposition transitions.

I do sometimes wonder about Arteta's choice of players.

If we want Sesko from Leipzig then we should stay there and look at Xavi Simons - we don’t have a single player like him in our squad


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Post #397516  Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2025 10:05 am 
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dec wrote:
Rich wrote:
And yet Liverpool only have 7 more goals than us despite this superb attacking play. We’ve missed Ødegaard for 2 months and Saka for 3 months and a host of other injuries that leave us with the bare bones, 3 crazy red cards that we’ve proven should never have been given based on how the other 19 teams are reffed and still Liverpool’s superb attacking play is just 7 goals better.
Yes we’ve made mistakes but I just simply do not believe that without our injuries and a group of awful decisions that we aren’t better than them - and City can say the same. They are benefitting hugely from a very strange set of circumstances to the two best teams in the country

Saka may be scheduled to be out for 3 months but right now he's only missed a month while Liverpool are 6 points clear with a game in hand. The 7 goal difference in goals scored translates to 16 goals over a full season. It is quite a difference and just moving away from the stats and watching the games, Liverpool quite clearly play far better attacking football than we do. I wish they didn't, but they obviously so.

I agree they attack better than us and have a collection of forwards likely greater than ours, but neither team really shook their teams up from last year when our attack was better than theirs and our defence was miles better. So what’s the biggest change between last year and this year….slot? Maybe, but much more likely is the same bury swing for both teams
Liverpool has had 9 first 11 players available for at least 19 of their 21 prem games Trent, Robertson, Van Dijk, Gravenberch, Mac Allister, slobazslai, Salah, Diaz, Gakpo. Just a gk and cb. We’ve done ok with some big players but it’s the consistent injuries to squad players and cluster injuries in the same position that has killed us this season.


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Post #397517  Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2025 10:15 am 
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Rich wrote:
socrates wrote:

We all bemoaned Xhaka's lack of athleticism and pace and only a move to a more advanced position where it didn't matter so much saved his Arsenal career. Yet, we sign a player who looks almost exactly the same.....technically very good but lacking athleticism and pace.

Two of our midfield yesterday are quite slow and far too easily bypassed when the opposition transitions.

I do sometimes wonder about Arteta's choice of players.

If we want Sesko from Leipzig then we should stay there and look at Xavi Simons - we don’t have a single player like him in our squad


Our transfer dealing always seem to move at a snails pace. I recall reading that we only ramped up the speed of the Calafiorio deal once it was clear Real Madrid were interested.


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Post #397518  Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2025 10:19 am 
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Rich wrote:
dec wrote:
Saka may be scheduled to be out for 3 months but right now he's only missed a month while Liverpool are 6 points clear with a game in hand. The 7 goal difference in goals scored translates to 16 goals over a full season. It is quite a difference and just moving away from the stats and watching the games, Liverpool quite clearly play far better attacking football than we do. I wish they didn't, but they obviously so.

I agree they attack better than us and have a collection of forwards likely greater than ours, but neither team really shook their teams up from last year when our attack was better than theirs and our defence was miles better. So what’s the biggest change between last year and this year….slot? Maybe, but much more likely is the same bury swing for both teams
Liverpool has had 9 first 11 players available for at least 19 of their 21 prem games Trent, Robertson, Van Dijk, Gravenberch, Mac Allister, slobazslai, Salah, Diaz, Gakpo. Just a gk and cb. We’ve done ok with some big players but it’s the consistent injuries to squad players and cluster injuries in the same position that has killed us this season.


Once we lost Saka for a big chunk of the season our one world class attacking threat was gone, the man who bailed us out time and time again with a piece of individual brilliance.

An attack of Trossard, Havertz and Martinelli on current form frightens no one.

If Liverpool lost Salah for a chunk of the season they would have issues too, but maybe would have better attacking options to fill the void.


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Post #397519  Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2025 12:14 pm 
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This is a great graphic that shows the inconsistency in starting 11 this season.
Defensive mid has had 16 changes in the last 17 games.
8 different right wingers in the last 9 games
No full back has put more than 5 games in a row in their position


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Post #397520  Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2025 12:17 pm 
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socrates wrote:
Rich wrote:
I agree they attack better than us and have a collection of forwards likely greater than ours, but neither team really shook their teams up from last year when our attack was better than theirs and our defence was miles better. So what’s the biggest change between last year and this year….slot? Maybe, but much more likely is the same bury swing for both teams
Liverpool has had 9 first 11 players available for at least 19 of their 21 prem games Trent, Robertson, Van Dijk, Gravenberch, Mac Allister, slobazslai, Salah, Diaz, Gakpo. Just a gk and cb. We’ve done ok with some big players but it’s the consistent injuries to squad players and cluster injuries in the same position that has killed us this season.


Once we lost Saka for a big chunk of the season our one world class attacking threat was gone, the man who bailed us out time and time again with a piece of individual brilliance.

An attack of Trossard, Havertz and Martinelli on current form frightens no one.

If Liverpool lost Salah for a chunk of the season they would have issues too, but maybe would have better attacking options to fill the void.

They’d be impacted no doubt, he wins a lot of games for them. But for a comparable injury they would also need to lose 2 other right wingers at the same time as losing Salah.
It’s cluster injuries that kill us, 4 years ago Liverpool went in to the season with just 3CB and all 3 were injured and it tanked their entire season and they were 30 points worse off than the season before. Just 3 injuries but all in the same position. The same would happen to most top teams


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