Fixtures March 31st - Manchester City - Etihad Stadium - 3:30 Pm

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       Injuries                 Steve Gleiber



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Post #562161  Posted: Sun May 21, 2023 5:03 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Gaz from Oz wrote:
Yes, we were better than last year and played some good football at times.

But for people to deny that we have not bottled it, tanked, collapsed or mentally collapsed shows the level of denial at this club is at a defensive level not seen since the end of the Wenger era.

This has been the biggest mental collapse that I can remember, and that’s at a club where it has happened a number of times. At 29 games we were on 72 points, City had played 28 games for 64 points. The title was in our hands but we continued to freeze. We had games against Southampton, Westham, Brighton, Notts Forest to come. Soon as we could see the way forward each individual player failed to accept their responsibility. If you really were a champion team you could expect to maybe get a draw at City given all the other fixtures they had, but even a loss would not be fatal. Two up at Liverpool and a mental collapse.

Yes we played some good football this season but there were still a lot of games where we gave up big chances and were not punished. People seem to conveniently forget that. Reminds me a bit of Emery's first season run.

Arteta failed to manage the players both physically and mentally across the season. And when I say players I mean the whole squad. He surrendered all cups to get the EPL. Well if it works, great, but when it doesn't fingers must be pointed.

At the beginning of the season we would never have expected to be in our position at game 29. But it was in our hands at game 29 and it didn't matter how much money City had spent. Leicester did it despite how far down the spending list they were. Maybe their manager was more experienced.

James from Gunnerblog made an interesting point last night. He said we played good football at times this season. A bit like Brendan Rogers at Liverpool but you needed the next manager (Klopp) to get the title.

For me Arteta has one more season for him to produce and stop the late season rot. He has had support and money from the top that no other Arsenal manager has ever enjoyed. We must at least make the QF of CL and easily make the top 4 for me to consider him capable of remaining with the club. We collapsed mentally this season and last season as well : we need to ensure it does not continue.

I am sure that the forum will continue to be inundated with the people who celebrate mediocrity and will defend Arteta. Good luck to them but things won't change if you accept what happened this season. I am concerned this team peaked this season.

Other than Kiwi, I am sure most of you have never driven at night outside cities in Australia, particularly in the outback. But we had a whole mob of kangaroos standing on the road just watching the headlights of the truck approach after game 29. The truck did not stop and they stood frozen. By the way no one comes out to remove the carcasses, you just dodge them.

My word the state of this nonsense. It’s like a clown turning up sozzled for a children’s party with his flies undone unable to entertain and only embarrass

Oh dear, the Arteta apologist. We bottled it and you are incapable of accepting it. Even you want new players. Why is that. But then you’ve never been much of a judge of players: Xhaka the worst midfielder ever at the club as an example. Keep defending. What do you say about James from Gunnerblog views. Let’s not address the issues, personal attacks are better. But I don’t give a flying *%^@ what you say. And I think that really deep down that annoys you.

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Post #562162  Posted: Sun May 21, 2023 5:05 am 
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Gaz from Oz wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
My word the state of this nonsense. It’s like a clown turning up sozzled for a children’s party with his flies undone unable to entertain and only embarrass

Oh dear, the Arteta apologist. We bottled it and you are incapable of accepting it. Even you want new players. Why is that. But then you’ve never been much of a judge of players: Xhaka the worst midfielder ever at the club as an example. Keep defending. What do you say about James from Gunnerblog views. Let’s not address the issues, personal attacks are better. But I don’t give a flying *%^@ what you say. And I think that really deep down that annoys you.

Not really, it’s just pointing out to someone that they have pissed their pants in public.


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Post #562163  Posted: Sun May 21, 2023 5:21 am 
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Parkerknoll Gooner wrote:
Quite happy to see Forest earn the right to stay up, they gave us shirts you know. We haven’t pooped our pants, we ran out of gas, we tried to do with 14 players what city did with 18. Hope they can lift themselves for the last game to give the faithful something to cheer. Great season to build on.

I generally agree. The games are largely pointless now and we blew it at West Ham and everything that followed needs to be taken with a pinch of salt.

What I would say is yesterday the moment I saw the line up I knew we’d would lose. (Didn’t watch the second half) It kind of feels we have unnecessarily shat our bed a lot and I find it really hard to believe that any manager would pick that back 4 and expect to win. (Why not play holding btw it was so baffling) if you are going down this route just play absolute young uns so it’s obvious

It might be a subliminal point to kroenke about budget or something but who gives a toss really when you are embarrassing yourselves in public. Oh well we go again next year and I’ll be at wolves to see them off for the last time


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Post #562164  Posted: Sun May 21, 2023 5:38 am 
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socrates wrote:
The thing that frustrates me is that there are probably a few players who may be considering joining Arsenal who might just be having a second look at other offers after the nature of this run-in collapse.

I think that is unlikely.

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Post #562165  Posted: Sun May 21, 2023 6:00 am 
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A Liverpool supporting friend sent me this...gotta admit it gave me a chuckle

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CsQrjUBJ ... I2Ng%3D%3D

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Post #562166  Posted: Sun May 21, 2023 6:33 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Parkerknoll Gooner wrote:
Quite happy to see Forest earn the right to stay up, they gave us shirts you know. We haven’t pooped our pants, we ran out of gas, we tried to do with 14 players what city did with 18. Hope they can lift themselves for the last game to give the faithful something to cheer. Great season to build on.

I generally agree. The games are largely pointless now and we blew it at West Ham and everything that followed needs to be taken with a pinch of salt.

What I would say is yesterday the moment I saw the line up I knew we’d would lose. (Didn’t watch the second half) It kind of feels we have unnecessarily shat our bed a lot and I find it really hard to believe that any manager would pick that back 4 and expect to win. (Why not play holding btw it was so baffling) if you are going down this route just play absolute young uns so it’s obvious

It might be a subliminal point to kroenke about budget or something but who gives a toss really when you are embarrassing yourselves in public. Oh well we go again next year and I’ll be at wolves to see them off for the last time

What if City do get a small points deduction? Don't we want to be getting as many points as possible instead of *&**ing around and maybe ending up 13 points behind City? Not to mention Arteta's chances as manager of the season.

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Post #562167  Posted: Sun May 21, 2023 7:02 am 
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Decaf wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
I generally agree. The games are largely pointless now and we blew it at West Ham and everything that followed needs to be taken with a pinch of salt.

What I would say is yesterday the moment I saw the line up I knew we’d would lose. (Didn’t watch the second half) It kind of feels we have unnecessarily shat our bed a lot and I find it really hard to believe that any manager would pick that back 4 and expect to win. (Why not play holding btw it was so baffling) if you are going down this route just play absolute young uns so it’s obvious

It might be a subliminal point to kroenke about budget or something but who gives a toss really when you are embarrassing yourselves in public. Oh well we go again next year and I’ll be at wolves to see them off for the last time

What if City do get a small points deduction? Don't we want to be getting as many points as possible instead of *&**ing around and maybe ending up 13 points behind City? Not to mention Arteta's chances as manager of the season.

Won't happen for this season.

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Post #562168  Posted: Sun May 21, 2023 7:03 am 
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Decaf wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
I generally agree. The games are largely pointless now and we blew it at West Ham and everything that followed needs to be taken with a pinch of salt.

What I would say is yesterday the moment I saw the line up I knew we’d would lose. (Didn’t watch the second half) It kind of feels we have unnecessarily shat our bed a lot and I find it really hard to believe that any manager would pick that back 4 and expect to win. (Why not play holding btw it was so baffling) if you are going down this route just play absolute young uns so it’s obvious

It might be a subliminal point to kroenke about budget or something but who gives a toss really when you are embarrassing yourselves in public. Oh well we go again next year and I’ll be at wolves to see them off for the last time

What if City do get a small points deduction? Don't we want to be getting as many points as possible instead of *&**ing around and maybe ending up 13 points behind City? Not to mention Arteta's chances as manager of the season.


In the unlikely event they did get a points deduction it would be a point less than required. They should get the same treatment they dished out to Rangers above the border.

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Post #562169  Posted: Sun May 21, 2023 7:04 am 
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Gaz from Oz wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
My word the state of this nonsense. It’s like a clown turning up sozzled for a children’s party with his flies undone unable to entertain and only embarrass

Oh dear, the Arteta apologist. We bottled it and you are incapable of accepting it. Even you want new players. Why is that. But then you’ve never been much of a judge of players: Xhaka the worst midfielder ever at the club as an example. Keep defending. What do you say about James from Gunnerblog views. Let’s not address the issues, personal attacks are better. But I don’t give a flying *%^@ what you say. And I think that really deep down that annoys you.

Bottled?I hate that lazy term. It 5he modern world someone who loses is now always a bottler. Some win some lose. A young inexperienced team ran out of puff against a state sponsored juggernaut full of experienced players.

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Post #562170  Posted: Sun May 21, 2023 9:11 am 
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socrates wrote:
The thing that frustrates me is that there are probably a few players who may be considering joining Arsenal who might just be having a second look at other offers after the nature of this run-in collapse.


I'm not sure I would worry about that. Yes we've collapsed at the end, but hopefully the players we would be looking at can see that they would be able to help fix those holes. Imagine having for the last 10 games players like Caciedo/Rice/a striker who can score goals/an up to speed central defender rather than an unfit Partey/Xhaka/an ineffective Vieira/a non scoring Jesus/ etc....


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Post #562171  Posted: Sun May 21, 2023 9:13 am 
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Simon Jordan: "When all is said and done, Arsenal should have won the Premier League title this season after the position they found themselves in.

I won’t mention the dreaded ‘B’ word (as in bottled), but I do think they lacked the wherewithal to control their own destiny and contracted a bizarre case of altitude sickness.

It was unforgivable in some respects to have thrown away the points they did against Everton, West Ham, Southampton and Liverpool. Arsenal had the trophy in their hands and decided to hand it back, like some demented game of pass the parcel. They had multiple chances to unwrap the present but didn’t do it!"


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Post #562172  Posted: Sun May 21, 2023 9:39 am 
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Lutongooner wrote:
Simon Jordan: "When all is said and done, Arsenal should have won the Premier League title this season after the position they found themselves in.

I won’t mention the dreaded ‘B’ word (as in bottled), but I do think they lacked the wherewithal to control their own destiny and contracted a bizarre case of altitude sickness.

It was unforgivable in some respects to have thrown away the points they did against Everton, West Ham, Southampton and Liverpool. Arsenal had the trophy in their hands and decided to hand it back, like some demented game of pass the parcel. They had multiple chances to unwrap the present but didn’t do it!"

Simon Jordan is a perma tan *%^@. I wouldn't listen to a word that bloke says.

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Post #562173  Posted: Sun May 21, 2023 10:12 am 
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Gunfire wrote:
Gaz from Oz wrote:
Oh dear, the Arteta apologist. We bottled it and you are incapable of accepting it. Even you want new players. Why is that. But then you’ve never been much of a judge of players: Xhaka the worst midfielder ever at the club as an example. Keep defending. What do you say about James from Gunnerblog views. Let’s not address the issues, personal attacks are better. But I don’t give a flying *%^@ what you say. And I think that really deep down that annoys you.

Bottled?I hate that lazy term. It 5he modern world someone who loses is now always a bottler. Some win some lose. A young inexperienced team ran out of puff against a state sponsored juggernaut full of experienced players.

Completely agree. "Bottling" it is something that armchair critics love dishing out.

And even to the extent that the pressure played its part and we made mistakes, what on earth do people expect? We've got a young team and a young manager, because basically that is the only way other than blatant financial doping, that we can even hope to get the talent that will give us even a chance of building towards having a team that can compete at the top level.

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Post #562174  Posted: Sun May 21, 2023 10:38 am 
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9 points out of 24 when you've been the best team in the league up to that point is pretty much bottling it, isn't it?

Inexperience, injuries and luck all played their part but 9 points out of 24 is near relegation form.

Finishing 2nd far exceeds most expectations but the collapse at the end when the pressure was on feels very Wenger and very Arsenal.


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Post #562175  Posted: Sun May 21, 2023 10:55 am 
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socrates wrote:
9 points out of 24 when you've been the best team in the league up to that point is pretty much bottling it, isn't it?


.


Not really. The team blew it v West ham and saints and knew it. Mentally after the Newcastle game they have been on the beach once 2nd was confirmed but the same players who got us to top of the table couldn’t maintain the run. If you want to totalise the number of dropped points you aren’t really being fair.

The season is over. The players know it too unfortunately it’s just a pity some of our fans are using the bad results to lambast the players and manager who served us well this year.

…. That said *%^@ knows what the manager was doing picking that back 4 because we were always going to lose and I’m genuinely surprised at his sadness at a defeat that was totally inevitable. At least if he played complete youngsters everyone would have known we couldn’t be arsed.


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Post #562176  Posted: Sun May 21, 2023 11:09 am 
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By the way a 5 point lead with 12 games to go is far from in your hands. A loss and a draw and it’s properly on you.

Questions the last few games has raised for me

What’s happened to Jesus? Doesn’t look a threat and all of a sudden we look desperate and I mean desperate for a new striker.

Saka just looks dead on his feet (why not push Jesus wide yesterday and play Nketiah)

What’s going on with partey ? The best midfielder in the league until the Liverpool game is now a substitute right back

Defence,defence, defence


There’s a bunch of weird things going on


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Post #562177  Posted: Sun May 21, 2023 11:39 am 
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socrates wrote:
9 points out of 24 when you've been the best team in the league up to that point is pretty much bottling it, isn't it?

Inexperience, injuries and luck all played their part but 9 points out of 24 is near relegation form.

Finishing 2nd far exceeds most expectations but the collapse at the end when the pressure was on feels very Wenger and very Arsenal.


Fatigue more than anything else. Arteta made the fewest changes of any manager this season. Chelsea and Man City the most. No prizes for guessing why.

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Post #562178  Posted: Sun May 21, 2023 3:16 pm 
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socrates wrote:
9 points out of 24 when you've been the best team in the league up to that point is pretty much bottling it, isn't it?

Inexperience, injuries and luck all played their part but 9 points out of 24 is near relegation form.

Finishing 2nd far exceeds most expectations but the collapse at the end when the pressure was on feels very Wenger and very Arsenal.


I read something that said no PL team has gone as long as we did in first place and not won the title.

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Post #562179  Posted: Sun May 21, 2023 3:17 pm 
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Chelsea already down 1-0 and no Haaland, DeBruyne, and many of the first team.

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Post #562180  Posted: Sun May 21, 2023 3:23 pm 
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This is the thing really. City’s back up striker is better than anyone we have at the club

To compete there are going to need to be some very ruthless decisions around personnel. They are just relentless


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Post #562181  Posted: Sun May 21, 2023 4:09 pm 
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I vaguely remember reading this unique story.


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Post #562182  Posted: Sun May 21, 2023 4:11 pm 
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I used to think Chelsea would be the club to eventually pass us in league titles but City is odds on faves. We may see ourselves caught before the decade is finished.

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Post #562183  Posted: Sun May 21, 2023 7:31 pm 
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I think accusations of bottling it aren't nuanced enough. I'm not saying that there wasnt an element of fear during the team's recent collapse, but I believe that was probably less to do with a defect of character, and more to do with the team's realisation and subsequent loss of confidence that it could get back into games due to the injuries and loss of form of key players. Yesterday's defeat was in a game with no real pressure as the title had gone yet we were completely lacklustre and blunt.


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Post #562184  Posted: Sun May 21, 2023 9:56 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
This is the thing really. City’s back up striker is better than anyone we have at the club

To compete there are going to need to be some very ruthless decisions around personnel. They are just relentless

And they signed Phillips for £45m and he’s just made his first prem start for them today. A luxury signing….for £45m!


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Post #562185  Posted: Sun May 21, 2023 10:01 pm 
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Darren wrote:
Lutongooner wrote:
Simon Jordan: "When all is said and done, Arsenal should have won the Premier League title this season after the position they found themselves in.

I won’t mention the dreaded ‘B’ word (as in bottled), but I do think they lacked the wherewithal to control their own destiny and contracted a bizarre case of altitude sickness.

It was unforgivable in some respects to have thrown away the points they did against Everton, West Ham, Southampton and Liverpool. Arsenal had the trophy in their hands and decided to hand it back, like some demented game of pass the parcel. They had multiple chances to unwrap the present but didn’t do it!"

Simon Jordan is a perma tan *%^@. I wouldn't listen to a word that bloke says.

I posted before that the stats show it was the two games against City that had to biggest effect. Both us and City dropped silly points to weaker sides.
City led 1-0 v Everton, villa, forest, Newcastle and Man U and ended up just taking 4 points from those 5 games they led and got the important first goal in


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Post #562186  Posted: Mon May 22, 2023 7:27 am 
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Ornstein saying we want gundogan. Whilst he’s precisely what we need I’m not sure we should keep looking at city players

Also says we are interested in Mason Mount which would be interesting and a step in the right direction as a Xhaka replacement.


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Post #562187  Posted: Mon May 22, 2023 8:21 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Ornstein saying we want gundogan. Whilst he’s precisely what we need I’m not sure we should keep looking at city players

Also says we are interested in Mason Mount which would be interesting and a step in the right direction as a Xhaka replacement.

Great player, hugely underrated. But City want to keep him, he wants a longer contract or more money from them - so if we did get him it would be based on primarily those reasons and I’m not sure we should be offering expensive and long contracts to a player who will be 33 in October, even on a free transfer.
2 year contract and I’d take him for sure


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Post #562188  Posted: Mon May 22, 2023 9:14 am 
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I prefer we spend our available funds on younger players

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Post #562189  Posted: Mon May 22, 2023 10:15 am 
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gooner7 wrote:
I prefer we spend our available funds on younger players

I think you need a blend. If you are selling xhaka you probably need another older head to come in.

If not who are our experienced lads, trossard 28, Partey 29, gabby M 25. Jorginho 31 but don’t be shocked if he goes back to Italy this summer


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Post #562190  Posted: Mon May 22, 2023 11:36 am 
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Ornstein says we are definitely interested in Mason Mount.
So so underwhelming.
What can he provide that Emile Smith Rowe cant??
Mount would be a waste of a huge transfer fee and wages in my opinion.


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Post #562191  Posted: Mon May 22, 2023 11:39 am 
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No to Gundagan at 32 as well.
Lets move on from City/Chelsea players.


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Post #562192  Posted: Mon May 22, 2023 11:44 am 
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david.d wrote:
Ornstein says we are definitely interested in Mason Mount.
So so underwhelming.
What can he provide that Emile Smith Rowe cant??
Mount would be a waste of a huge transfer fee and wages in my opinion.


Agree 100%. Mount is more experienced but Emile Smith Rowe could play in the same position.

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Post #562193  Posted: Mon May 22, 2023 12:38 pm 
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I can't imagine Arteta seriously being interested in an over 30 Gundogan. And I find it even more improbable that City would allow it after Jesus and Zinny.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football ... t-30039812

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Post #562194  Posted: Mon May 22, 2023 12:53 pm 
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Gunfire wrote:
david.d wrote:
Ornstein says we are definitely interested in Mason Mount.
So so underwhelming.
What can he provide that Emile Smith Rowe cant??
Mount would be a waste of a huge transfer fee and wages in my opinion.


Agree 100%. Mount is more experienced but Emile Smith Rowe could play in the same position.

No he can’t. He just doesn’t have the defensive instincts and is anywhere near combative enough to play that position. He’s played that role before and we haven’t been able to control the midfield in those games. The only success he’s had has been playing off the left in martinellis absence and I don’t think you’ll see many advocates of trying gabby in that position either.

I’m not a huge fan of mount however he unquestionably possesses more of the attributes required to play the Xhaka midfield position in that he has a range of passing but can do the dirty work and press as well. All irrelevant really though as feels to me like he’s destined for Liverpool


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Post #562195  Posted: Mon May 22, 2023 1:13 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
gooner7 wrote:
I prefer we spend our available funds on younger players

I think you need a blend. If you are selling xhaka you probably need another older head to come in.

If not who are our experienced lads, trossard 28, Partey 29, gabby M 25. Jorginho 31 but don’t be shocked if he goes back to Italy this summer


You have a good point there
But I fear his wages will be very high. We cannot afford another Özil, Aubameyang, and Willian situation

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Post #562196  Posted: Mon May 22, 2023 1:17 pm 
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gooner7 wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
I think you need a blend. If you are selling xhaka you probably need another older head to come in.

If not who are our experienced lads, trossard 28, Partey 29, gabby M 25. Jorginho 31 but don’t be shocked if he goes back to Italy this summer


You have a good point there
But I fear his wages will be very high. We cannot afford another Özil, Aubameyang, and Willian situation

He’s on 140 k a week at city. Not a vast amount.

I’m not necessarily a massive advocate of going for him but he has mastered that exact role we need to fill this summer and if you spent a lot on Rice it may make sense.


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Post #562197  Posted: Mon May 22, 2023 6:41 pm 
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AmericanGooner wrote:
I can't imagine Arteta seriously being interested in an over 30 Gundogan. And I find it even more improbable that City would allow it after Jesus and Zinny.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football ... t-30039812

Technically city are powerless, Gundogan’s contract is up so he’s free to decide his own future


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Post #562198  Posted: Mon May 22, 2023 6:43 pm 
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Location: Liverpool

Flying back from Corfu over London today, saw the Emirates, could just about make out Highbury, then on passing further north, I thought my eyes were deceiving me.

Just got home, and having now double checked on Google Earth, the Spuds stadium really is the shape of a toilet seat from above.

Take a look. Was the architect a Gooner?

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Post #562199  Posted: Mon May 22, 2023 6:44 pm 
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Juventus have been docked 10 points in Serie A, which takes them from 2nd to 7th and are unlikely to qualify for the CL for next season. What that means for us is potentially move us up from pot 3 to pot 2 in the CL groups for next season


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Post #562200  Posted: Mon May 22, 2023 8:46 pm 
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socrates wrote:
9 points out of 24 when you've been the best team in the league up to that point is pretty much bottling it, isn't it?

Inexperience, injuries and luck all played their part but 9 points out of 24 is near relegation form.

Finishing 2nd far exceeds most expectations but the collapse at the end when the pressure was on feels very Wenger and very Arsenal.
You'd expect me to defend Arsene, so I will. True there were some flaky moments under him but from memory I can't recall us dropping a title from the sort of position we have been in this season. Not that I am going to criticise this team's efforts too much for even when we had a seemingly comfortable points lead it always felt like City's title to win. They are clearly a more experienced and better team. Yes it was frustrating to run out of go, especially against West Ham and Southampton, but it was always on the cards that City could beat us twice in the run in, which unsurprisingly, they did. All in all a good league campaign by our boys.

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