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Post #528841  Posted: Wed May 05, 2021 12:51 pm 
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There has been talk of more protests outside the ground tonight, you can't blame them - but there was also talk of a group trying to get the fans that gather to make their voices heard as a welcome to the team bus and encouragement to the team. I like that idea, Arsenal could certainly do with something to wake us up in the early part of a lot of games recently


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Post #528842  Posted: Wed May 05, 2021 2:01 pm 
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https://www.teamtalk.com/news/arteta-pr ... ep-forward

Arteta stating the obvious. Please make sure the team comes out with all-guns blazing this Thursday. Stop playing the slow-mo, overly deliberate build up that he set them up to do. Villareal will be working hard on a tight defensive unit. And we cannot be walking up to the last third, then pass it around endless times looking for that eye-of-the -needle pass. Just play fast moving football, work on the triangles. Allow Martinelli and/or Pépé to run at their defence, but have someone at the ready to bail them out of tight situations. In short, more fast paced movement please.

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Post #528843  Posted: Wed May 05, 2021 2:02 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Here is an interesting transfer rumour. Apparently Leno has told Arsenal he'd like to move on in the summer, he's got 2 years left on his deal so Arsenal should really be making a decision one way or the other. A GK who Arsenal may target to replace him is Szczesny, bringing him home as Juve target a free transfer signing of AC Milan's Donnarumma.
Szczesny is a better GK than when he left us but I haven't watched much of him recently to see if he's still a top GK, at 31 he shouldn't be in decline yet - more like in his peak years as a GK. He also counts a a home-grown player which is something we need to be mindful of if we're looking at selling Bellerin, AMN, Willock, Nelson and Nketiah this summer


Interesting. Move on then. Ryan shall then be our #1.

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Post #528844  Posted: Wed May 05, 2021 2:04 pm 
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Rich wrote:
There has been talk of more protests outside the ground tonight, you can't blame them - but there was also talk of a group trying to get the fans that gather to make their voices heard as a welcome to the team bus and encouragement to the team. I like that idea, Arsenal could certainly do with something to wake us up in the early part of a lot of games recently


You meant tomorrow night? Would be quite quiet and lonely if anyone should show up tonight.

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Post #528845  Posted: Wed May 05, 2021 2:22 pm 
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rotterdamnation wrote:
Decaf wrote:
Even Spurs, despite never winning anything more significant than the Feyenoord Jubileum Tournament in living memory


oi that's a prestigious trophy, don't pooh-pooh it!

I'm sure they don't. They probably take it out and polish it every day :laughing7: :laughing7:

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Post #528846  Posted: Wed May 05, 2021 2:53 pm 
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Lehmann getting himself into trouble. Quite astounding really. https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/footba ... 33349.html

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Post #528847  Posted: Wed May 05, 2021 6:04 pm 
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Rich wrote:
currently it looks like we get everything we could have wished for (ie: a European Trophy and a seat back at the top table in the Champions League) or have the worst season we could have possibly imagined, 11th in the league and no europe at all next year.


Experience has told me it’s going to be the latter. And I don’t think we’ll make it past Villarreal. It might be close but we’re missing a few at the back, Leno isn’t in good form I just don’t think we can defend well enough for long enough not to concede one or two.

But we’re privileged to be watching matches where it’s all on the line. For the sake of the health of the fans perhaps not this much :icon_eek1:


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Post #528848  Posted: Wed May 05, 2021 6:27 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
Zed wrote:
Nothing Bernard. Saw you'd been on here for a long while is all.

Ah, what I have done quite a few times is not exited the forum, even though I’m not looking at it. So I assume it must look as though I’m logged on when I’m not definitely not reading it or writing a post.

No worries.

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Post #528849  Posted: Wed May 05, 2021 6:31 pm 
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gooner7 wrote:
Rich wrote:
There has been talk of more protests outside the ground tonight, you can't blame them - but there was also talk of a group trying to get the fans that gather to make their voices heard as a welcome to the team bus and encouragement to the team. I like that idea, Arsenal could certainly do with something to wake us up in the early part of a lot of games recently


You meant tomorrow night? Would be quite quiet and lonely if anyone should show up tonight.


Would help if fans turned up to cheer the players as a motivation to win going onto the final. The Kroenke out protests should continue at further home matches till last day of the season.

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Post #528850  Posted: Wed May 05, 2021 8:28 pm 
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If Chelsea wins their second CL, I may go into a full depression. Never imagined we'd go this far down so soon. I can only imagine Man Utd fans in '74 thinking how did we go from champions to relegation in 6 years?

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Post #528851  Posted: Wed May 05, 2021 8:59 pm 
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AmericanGooner wrote:
If Chelsea wins their second CL, I may go into a full depression. Never imagined we'd go this far down so soon. I can only imagine Man Utd fans in '74 thinking how did we go from champions to relegation in 6 years?

Something to look forward to this Saturday. Chelsea v City PL game. A sort of pre CL final expectation.

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Post #528852  Posted: Wed May 05, 2021 9:06 pm 
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Horrible CL final as expected, hope City win obviously but really a final four in the CL of all doped up clubs says it all - no sport to be seen here.

Jealous?, probably, doesn't change the fact they are all cheaty horrible clubs though!.

Still if you can't beat them...

#KroenkeOUT

Could be all-English European finals in both competitions this season.. UEFA are not going to like that!.

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Post #528853  Posted: Wed May 05, 2021 9:21 pm 
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Wilts-Gooner wrote:
Horrible CL final as expected, hope City win obviously but really a final four in the CL of all doped up clubs says it all - no sport to be seen here.

Jealous?, probably, doesn't change the fact they are all cheaty horrible clubs though!.

Still if you can't beat them...

#KroenkeOUT

Could be all-English European finals in both competitions this season.. UEFA are not going to like that!.

Yes vile final.

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Post #528854  Posted: Wed May 05, 2021 9:30 pm 
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Wilts-Gooner wrote:
Horrible CL final as expected, hope City win obviously but really a final four in the CL of all doped up clubs says it all - no sport to be seen here.

Jealous?, probably, doesn't change the fact they are all cheaty horrible clubs though!.

Still if you can't beat them...

#KroenkeOUT

Could be all-English European finals in both competitions this season.. UEFA are not going to like that!.

I too hope City win the final. Must admit I don’t mind City. For every trophy they win it means Manchester United, Liverpool, Chelsea and Tottenham haven’t won it.

We also have to remember when calling Chelsea and City “cheaty horrible clubs”, Kroenke has comparable wealth to Abramovich and the Kroenke family has comparable wealth to Sheikh Mansour. The only difference is Kroenke won’t spend his own money on the club he owns but Abramovich and Mansour will. Is that really enough to make them “cheaty”, even if it makes us jealous?


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Post #528855  Posted: Wed May 05, 2021 9:45 pm 
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I hope these Sarri rumours are not true.
Would be so so underwhelming.
Totally the wrong fit for us.
I’d rather someone like Graham Potter or Steven Gerrard or if experience then Rafa.
First choice would be Rodgers but he wont come.


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Post #528856  Posted: Wed May 05, 2021 9:48 pm 
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We need to do the job tomorrow and get to the final.
Will be unbearable watching us play against Utd.
Would be so nervous.
Couldnt take another Chelsea Baku style hammering.


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Post #528857  Posted: Wed May 05, 2021 9:52 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
Wilts-Gooner wrote:
Horrible CL final as expected, hope City win obviously but really a final four in the CL of all doped up clubs says it all - no sport to be seen here.

Jealous?, probably, doesn't change the fact they are all cheaty horrible clubs though!.

Still if you can't beat them...

#KroenkeOUT

Could be all-English European finals in both competitions this season.. UEFA are not going to like that!.

I too hope City win the final. Must admit I don’t mind City. For every trophy they win it means Manchester United, Liverpool, Chelsea and Tottenham haven’t won it.

We also have to remember when calling Chelsea and City “cheaty horrible clubs”, Kroenke has comparable wealth to Abramovich and the Kroenke family has comparable wealth to Sheikh Mansour. The only difference is Kroenke won’t spend his own money on the club he owns but Abramovich and Mansour will. Is that really enough to make them “cheaty”, even if it makes us jealous?

City have spent completely beyond the club's means. Literally hundreds of millions. Chelsea work within revenues generated by the club these days but in the first 7 or 8 years of Abramovic's ownership they did the same. "Financial doping" really is a very good description.

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Post #528858  Posted: Wed May 05, 2021 10:10 pm 
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dec wrote:
Bernard wrote:
I too hope City win the final. Must admit I don’t mind City. For every trophy they win it means Manchester United, Liverpool, Chelsea and Tottenham haven’t won it.

We also have to remember when calling Chelsea and City “cheaty horrible clubs”, Kroenke has comparable wealth to Abramovich and the Kroenke family has comparable wealth to Sheikh Mansour. The only difference is Kroenke won’t spend his own money on the club he owns but Abramovich and Mansour will. Is that really enough to make them “cheaty”, even if it makes us jealous?

City have spent completely beyond the club's means. Literally hundreds of millions. Chelsea work within revenues generated by the club these days but in the first 7 or 8 years of Abramovic's ownership they did the same. "Financial doping" really is a very good description.

I take your point. But we have a rich enough owner to be financially doped and compete with them. Just because Fiszman on his death bed sold out to a multi billionaire who won’t put his own money into the club and Chelsea and City’s owners will, is that really enough to make them “cheaty and horrible”?


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Post #528859  Posted: Wed May 05, 2021 10:18 pm 
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dec wrote:
City have spent completely beyond the club's means. Literally hundreds of millions. Chelsea work within revenues generated by the club these days but in the first 7 or 8 years of Abramovic's ownership they did the same. "Financial doping" really is a very good description.

And yet, according to The Guardian, Manchester City's win against PSG was 'a triumph of composure and philosophy'. Yes, I'm sure if their first team was full of the modern-day equivalents of Richard Dunne, Joey Barton and Darius Vassell, they would have reached the Champions League final, as long as they got their composure and philosophy right.

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Post #528860  Posted: Thu May 06, 2021 5:49 am 
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Wilts-Gooner wrote:
Horrible CL final as expected, hope City win obviously but really a final four in the CL of all doped up clubs says it all - no sport to be seen here.

Jealous?, probably, doesn't change the fact they are all cheaty horrible clubs though!.

Still if you can't beat them...

#KroenkeOUT

Could be all-English European finals in both competitions this season.. UEFA are not going to like that!.


The British and European sports news have done the game a disservice. I noticed the various sports news shows and major platforms never (and I use 'never' in context) criticized clubs who got sugar daddies or did they ever attribute their success on the pitch to those same sugar daddies over spending at least initially.

My guess as to why they didn't is this Faustian bargain. They didn't want to kill or criticize the golden goose. The honest thing to do is mention the money but they don't because they make money off those same clubs. Maybe some of you have but I've never heard pundits say the only reason Chelsea and City win things is because they bought it. Their recent history is all bought. Liverpool at least could say they made big money off sales (Suarez, Coutinho) and bought wisely. They brought in a great manager.

Would Man Utd have been 'Man Utd' if the EPL didn't come about in '92? I have no idea. They were already very good going into '92.

Anyway, nowadays if you even raise the point, you sound like a sore loser. The lower clubs in terms of fanbase, stature, etc., don't seem to be complaining as much possibly due to the increased revenue from the league and getting monies even if relegated allowing them to maintain most of their players and even pick up a few. Not a bribe not to speak out but again, the golden goose of the EPL money.

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Post #528861  Posted: Thu May 06, 2021 7:35 am 
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dec wrote:
City have spent completely beyond the club's means. Literally hundreds of millions. Chelsea work within revenues generated by the club these days but in the first 7 or 8 years of Abramovic's ownership they did the same. "Financial doping" really is a very good description.


I do think way more should be made of the fact that Man City and Chelsea were mid table clubs who have ONLY become what they are today because of massive financial doping.


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Post #528862  Posted: Thu May 06, 2021 7:42 am 
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david.d wrote:
I hope these Sarri rumours are not true.
Would be so so underwhelming.
Totally the wrong fit for us.
I’d rather someone like Graham Potter or Steven Gerrard or if experience then Rafa.
First choice would be Rodgers but he wont come.


Hi david,

I agree, Sarri would be such an uninspiring choice.

I like Potter as well, Brighton play great football on a shoestring budget and would be midtable if they could afford better quality strikers to finish the chances they make.


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Post #528863  Posted: Thu May 06, 2021 7:44 am 
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So, the day of reckoning........exiting the EL tonight, especially if it's accompanied by a poor peformance, would heap the pressure on Arteta.

We basically have all our eggs in one basket, and whilst I don't fancy us to beat United we need to be in that final.

Win or bust.


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Post #528864  Posted: Thu May 06, 2021 7:56 am 
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I suppose a Chelsea v City CL final was inevitable at some point. Two clubs pumped full of artificial money who have been able to build two first teams probably capable of finishing in the top 4 in the league and probably have another team out on loan who could mix it in the premier league.


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Post #528865  Posted: Thu May 06, 2021 8:04 am 
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Sarri ? Would be hugely depressing. The only thing I think when his name is mentioned are his hysterics on the touchline when his own goalkeeper refused to come off. However it’s been mooted in Italy since Christmas he’s joining Arsenal

I think it’s of very high probability we change the manager this summer regardless of results.

Kroenke will want to divert attention from his ownership and takeovers by creating an impression that a moment of change has occurred.


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Post #528866  Posted: Thu May 06, 2021 8:06 am 
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Bernard wrote:
I take your point. But we have a rich enough owner to be financially doped and compete with them. Just because Fiszman on his death bed sold out to a multi billionaire who won’t put his own money into the club and Chelsea and City’s owners will, is that really enough to make them “cheaty and horrible”?


Good morning Bernard. I agree that Kroenke is rich enough to financially dope Arsenal. The fact that he has decided not to wheras City and Chelsea's owners have spent billions of pounds I think does tarnish their recent success. By the same logic if Kroenke decided to pump in billions then any subsequent Arsenal success would also be tarnished.
However, i'm not sure we can acccuse them of cheating if they are operating with the laws, but it does highlight how the laws arent fit for purpose and these owners are blatantly taking advantage of them. Look at City trying to sponsor itself for hundreds of millions of pounds or Chelsea buying up every promising player it can lay their hands on and loan them out. That does leave a sour taste because its so blatant and distorts the market so massively.


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Post #528867  Posted: Thu May 06, 2021 8:12 am 
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Rich wrote:
I suppose a Chelsea v City CL final was inevitable at some point. Two clubs pumped full of artificial money who have been able to build two first teams probably capable of finishing in the top 4 in the league and probably have another team out on loan who could mix it in the premier league.


Hi Rich,

It is hugely frustrating but, as pointed out by Bernard, Kroenke could spend like there's no tomorrow if he so desired, he just chooses not to.

I think the correlation between the amount of money spent (on transfers and wages) is very strong in almost all leagues. Basically, over a prolonged period of time the more you spend the higher you finish. Some teams punch above their weight for a while and some punch below their weight for a while but eventually they end up back where they should be.

United had that financial advantage in the 90s/early 2000s and could cherry pick the best players from the PL and europe. We competed mainly because Wenger had an extensive knowledge of the untapped french market and some of the other foreign leagues and countries and he also had a network of contacts around the world able to update him about up-and-coming talents. Even then we struggled to match United every season, not winning back-to-back titles.


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Post #528868  Posted: Thu May 06, 2021 8:43 am 
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We could have an all British CL and Europa cup final.

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Post #528869  Posted: Thu May 06, 2021 8:49 am 
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socrates wrote:
So, the day of reckoning........exiting the EL tonight, especially if it's accompanied by a poor peformance, would heap the pressure on Arteta.

We basically have all our eggs in one basket, and whilst I don't fancy us to beat United we need to be in that final.

Win or bust.

Looking at both teams, I just can't see how they are capable of beating us with their team, provided we field a team where players are playing as close to their positions as possible. A false 9 was absolute BS. Aubameyang as CF, and move Xhaka back to the midfield and run the risk with Soares. 4-1 to us is my tip.

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Post #528870  Posted: Thu May 06, 2021 9:12 am 
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AmericanGooner wrote:
We could have an all British CL and Europa cup final.

And UEFA in their infinite wisdom will almost certainly proceed with hosting the CL final in Instanbul, dragging 2 english teams and their fans (as I believe they will be allowed) all the way to Turkey and back in the middle of a pandemic


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Post #528871  Posted: Thu May 06, 2021 9:17 am 
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socrates wrote:
Rich wrote:
I suppose a Chelsea v City CL final was inevitable at some point. Two clubs pumped full of artificial money who have been able to build two first teams probably capable of finishing in the top 4 in the league and probably have another team out on loan who could mix it in the premier league.


Hi Rich,

It is hugely frustrating but, as pointed out by Bernard, Kroenke could spend like there's no tomorrow if he so desired, he just chooses not to.

But just because Kronke chooses not to spend doesn't mean we can't complain about the unfairness of City and Chelsea's owners firstly just splurging money they haven't earned and secondly circumnavigating the rules set up to do that via back door legal nonsense.
Of course Arsenal should be more competitive than we are but without financial doping any sustained success in the english league is pretty much a closed shop.
Man City will have won 8 of the last 12 domestic trophies available


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Post #528872  Posted: Thu May 06, 2021 9:24 am 
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Bored wrote:
Bernard wrote:
I take your point. But we have a rich enough owner to be financially doped and compete with them. Just because Fiszman on his death bed sold out to a multi billionaire who won’t put his own money into the club and Chelsea and City’s owners will, is that really enough to make them “cheaty and horrible”?


Good morning Bernard. I agree that Kroenke is rich enough to financially dope Arsenal. The fact that he has decided not to wheras City and Chelsea's owners have spent billions of pounds I think does tarnish their recent success. By the same logic if Kroenke decided to pump in billions then any subsequent Arsenal success would also be tarnished.
However, i'm not sure we can acccuse them of cheating if they are operating with the laws, but it does highlight how the laws arent fit for purpose and these owners are blatantly taking advantage of them. Look at City trying to sponsor itself for hundreds of millions of pounds or Chelsea buying up every promising player it can lay their hands on and loan them out. That does leave a sour taste because its so blatant and distorts the market so massively.

Morning Bored. That’s basically my point. City and Chelsea aren’t cheating. Cheat, cheating or similar isn’t what they’re doing. Sure, they have multi billionaire owners. So do Arsenal, so let’s not get morally superior about it. The only material difference is their owners are willing to put their own money into their clubs. Arsenal’s owner isn’t. In my view that doesn’t make us morally superior to them.


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Post #528873  Posted: Thu May 06, 2021 9:33 am 
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Jenson Lehman sacked by Hertha for racist tweet. No room in the modern world for an apology or forgiveness. Stupid to do it all the same.

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Post #528874  Posted: Thu May 06, 2021 9:37 am 
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Rich wrote:
But just because Kronke chooses not to spend doesn't mean we can't complain about the unfairness of City and Chelsea's owners firstly just splurging money

Sorry Rich but I disagree. It’s Kroenke’s choice for Arsenal to be where they are under his ownership because every decision derives from his ownership. In my view what you’re doing is a bit like, in principle anyway, accepting the actions of one multi billionaire’s company because he drives a Toyota Yaris and his wife drives a Honda Jazz but moaning about another multi billionaire’s firm because he drives a Ferrari while his wife drives a Lamborghini. It’s their respective choices how they spend their money.


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Post #528875  Posted: Thu May 06, 2021 10:04 am 
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Bernard wrote:
...But we have a rich enough owner to be financially doped and compete with them. Just because Fiszman on his death bed sold out to a multi billionaire who won’t put his own money into the club and Chelsea and City’s owners will, is that really enough to make them “cheaty and horrible”?
Why bring Danny Fiszman's dying wishes into it? I imagine he might have been thinking more about his family at that point than the future of a football club, and who wouldn't have done the same? Your point about Kroenke's lack of personal investment in the team stands well enough without mentioning Danny, a man who did a lot for Arsenal.

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Post #528876  Posted: Thu May 06, 2021 10:33 am 
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Bernard wrote:
Sure, they have multi billionaire owners. So do Arsenal, so let’s not get morally superior about it. The only material difference is their owners are willing to put their own money into their clubs. Arsenal’s owner isn’t. In my view that doesn’t make us morally superior to them.


I think this is where it gets a bit tricky as even though finacially doped clubs are allowed under the rules to inject unearned billions into thir clubs, in my opinion it absolutely taints their success. Does it make Arsenal morally superior if the owner chooses to operate under a different business model? Perhaps if the owner is choosing not to dope the club for maral reasons. Could you make a case that if a football club utilises billions of ££ of unearned income thereby distorting the market and blowing most of its competitors out of the water, is this ethical in a sporting context?


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Post #528877  Posted: Thu May 06, 2021 11:15 am 
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Bored wrote:
Bernard wrote:
Sure, they have multi billionaire owners. So do Arsenal, so let’s not get morally superior about it. The only material difference is their owners are willing to put their own money into their clubs. Arsenal’s owner isn’t. In my view that doesn’t make us morally superior to them.

I think this is where it gets a bit tricky as even though finacially doped clubs are allowed under the rules to inject unearned billions into thir clubs, in my opinion it absolutely taints their success. Does it make Arsenal morally superior if the owner chooses to operate under a different business model? Perhaps if the owner is choosing not to dope the club for maral reasons. Could you make a case that if a football club utilises billions of ££ of unearned income thereby distorting the market and blowing most of its competitors out of the water, is this ethical in a sporting context?

Every huge company in the world would have used money, vast sums of it, to grow. Manchester City and Chelsea are now worth massively more than they were when Mansour and Abramovich took them over so long term are they not doing the same? Let’s forget firms. How about countless individuals? Me and my wife are home owners. When we pass on (hopefully decades away), our daughters will get valuable property to do whatever they want with. I have a huge fine wine collection that I’m never going to drink and is worth many, many times more than the money I invested in it to buy.

I’m sorry Bored. I genuinely respect all the views you share here whether I agree or disagree with them. But I’m not comfortable with criticism of City and Chelsea’s success under their current owners. I find it at best ‘ill thought out’, and at worst a bit hypocritical. We’d all (okay maybe not all, but I’m sure many or most) would love Kroenke to spend his own money to win Arsenal trophies.


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old man of hoy wrote:
Bernard wrote:
...But we have a rich enough owner to be financially doped and compete with them. Just because Fiszman on his death bed sold out to a multi billionaire who won’t put his own money into the club and Chelsea and City’s owners will, is that really enough to make them “cheaty and horrible”?
Why bring Danny Fiszman's dying wishes into it? I imagine he might have been thinking more about his family at that point than the future of a football club, and who wouldn't have done the same? Your point about Kroenke's lack of personal investment in the team stands well enough without mentioning Danny, a man who did a lot for Arsenal.

Being dead in my view isn’t enough to save anyone, including Fiszman, from criticism. Was he thinking of his family when selling the control of Arsenal to Kroenke? I’m in no position to say he wasn’t but I think it’s debatable because I’ve little doubt that he could have got the same or more money from another buyer. My own suspicion is that on his deathbed, excluding Dein from Arsenal’s future (as he was linked to Usmanov at the time) was more important to Danny than the well being of the club after his own passing.

However I certainly do accept that while alive Fiszman did a lot of positive things for Arsenal, especially over the new ground. So there’s no argument from me on that point of yours.


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Post #528879  Posted: Thu May 06, 2021 12:11 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
old man of hoy wrote:
Why bring Danny Fiszman's dying wishes into it? I imagine he might have been thinking more about his family at that point than the future of a football club, and who wouldn't have done the same? Your point about Kroenke's lack of personal investment in the team stands well enough without mentioning Danny, a man who did a lot for Arsenal.

Being dead in my view isn’t enough to save anyone, including Fiszman, from criticism.

:laughing7:

For *%^@* sake :laughing7:


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Post #528880  Posted: Thu May 06, 2021 12:19 pm 
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Rich wrote:
socrates wrote:

Hi Rich,

It is hugely frustrating but, as pointed out by Bernard, Kroenke could spend like there's no tomorrow if he so desired, he just chooses not to.

But just because Kronke chooses not to spend doesn't mean we can't complain about the unfairness of City and Chelsea's owners firstly just splurging money they haven't earned and secondly circumnavigating the rules set up to do that via back door legal nonsense.
Of course Arsenal should be more competitive than we are but without financial doping any sustained success in the english league is pretty much a closed shop.
Man City will have won 8 of the last 12 domestic trophies available


Whatever Leicester is doing, its working.

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