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Post #537721  Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2021 9:29 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
kiwipete wrote:
Gidday G7 ..... it a collective thing not a question of Ødegaard too lightweight Aubameyang passed his best , swap both of them into a Liverpool shirt and they'd have performed well .

We need to function as a team , everybody playing their role .
When you display as many weaknesses / basic errors as we did today the introduction of Messi , Ronaldo in their prime wouldn't have made any difference .
Liverpool's play today is a model we should aspire to .
The spat between Arteta and Klopp seemed to galvanise them into action we were quite comfortable up to that point . :laughing7:

I think you’ve made some good points there kiwi. I was surprised by gooner7’s description of Ødegaard as too lightweight. I actually felt he did well after coming on and did enough to count as one of our better players on the day.

I always think there’s a tendency in some fans to overreact to bad defeats, or indeed any defeats - even narrow ones. gooner7 is right that Tavares and Lokonga’s performances were disappointing. I think it’s guaranteed that Tierney will come back into the team for the Newcastle game. I don’t know how close Xhaka is to fitness but when he is I reckon we’ll see him back in the side too. But had Tierney and Xhaka played yesterday I still think we’d have lost, albeit 3-0 instead of 4-0 as I doubt Tierney would have given Liverpool their second goal as Tavares did.

Yesterday’s result does not make us a poor team. All it showed is that currently Liverpool are way ahead of us. But we all knew that anyway.


Thanks Bernard ...... I'd be very interested in listening to both managers half time instructions

... guessing I'd think Klopp thought "Okay they held us pretty much in the first half how can I change things" whereas Mikael thought we did well there carry on the same .

van Dyke said they were told move further forward concentrate on pressing us , which worked a treat Tavares and Lakonga confirming their youth .

Very interesting match against the Geordies .... have we taken this match on the chin and moved on or do we wilt like a two month old floral display ....?

Right on about the fans one defeat and .......... "spend some f(*(*&&^money " becomes the catchcry .

Brighton , Palace , West Ham have all got good results against Liverpool and haven't spent truckloads of cash .

It's all about getting the team to collectively function well rather than installing individually brilliant players .


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Post #537722  Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2021 9:46 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Strange that Klopp was so adamant there was no foul in the Mané challenge on Tomiyasu that sparked the touchline argument. I thought it was a clear foul as Mané led with the arm in to the face and could have easily been a yellow.


I thought it was a clear foul but Klopp can be quite rabidly passionate , getting his gonads in a real Gordian knot .

Part of his reaction was fueled by some earlier match [ think versus Real Madrid ] where play acting got Mané a yellow .

Jurgen then had to replace for fear of another yellow leading to a red . He figured the same was happening there .


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Post #537723  Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2021 9:55 pm 
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gooner7 wrote:

The way I saw it, Ramsdale kept it at 0-0 for a long time. We could have been 2 or 3 down even before their first goal.
.

Little educational post here for you young Singaporean ......... Ramsdale is our goalkeeper , stopping the ball going into our net is his job . :icon_mrgreen1:


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Post #537724  Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2021 7:02 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
bubblechris wrote:

I disagree. Was it the season we lost 6-2 or was it 8-2 to United that we went on and won the league, or was I dreaming?

This will put people's feet back on the ground. Make us play better. Liverpool always pull a brilliant game out of the bag against us there aren't many teams that would have not lost to them in this form, they were awesome much as I hate to say it.

Everyone knows our problem now is up front. I believe most want Aubameyang and Lacazette moved on as soon as possible and a new front 2 bought or brought on. For me it would be Balogun and Nketiah week in week out till they click then *%^@ me we'll be so proud of OUR team.

Partey is a problem methinks is it fitness or not quite what we need, We have the attacking options now we need a Kante or a Bissouma to shut things down and win games for us.


I think our main problem yesterday was in midfield. An unfit partey and lokonga just totally out of his depth like a rabbit caught in headlights. We just didn’t show enough gumption and bravery on the ball in this part of the pitch. Technically as we know we could do with some more passing ability here as well.

You are right a new striker is required that provides some new options but generally a valid and true post from you here.

We all know a bit more surgery is required and if you can get Lacazette, nketiah and elneny off the wage bill your saving best part of 300k a week for the new players we need


Thank you TG. In a spirit of conciliation I have parked the Brexit and Boris comments I was about to post post and instead wish you and yours a very Merry Christmas. God bless ya.


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Post #537725  Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2021 7:04 am 
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John while I am in a goodish mood sincere belated condolences on the death of your father.

You were very lucky you had your rock for so long. Mine passed over 30 years ago and I still miss him so much. God bless ya and have a good Christmas.
:12hello-bye:


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Post #537726  Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2021 7:56 am 
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bubblechris wrote:
John while I am in a goodish mood sincere belated condolences on the death of your father.

You were very lucky you had your rock for so long. Mine passed over 30 years ago and I still miss him so much. God bless ya and have a good Christmas.
:12hello-bye:


Thanks Chris

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Post #537727  Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2021 8:46 am 
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Hopefully at some point we'll exact our revenge against Liverpool. The club I want to get revenge the most is Man Utd. I want to put 9 past them and I hope I live to see it.

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Post #537728  Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2021 9:21 am 
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long time gooner wrote:
Bernard wrote:
Yesterday’s result does not make us a poor team. All it showed is that currently Liverpool are way ahead of us. But we all knew that anyway.

Spot on Bernard. And I’m hoping that our emergent players will have learned and benefitted from the masterclass.

Newcastle next.

Agree with you both. I think it also shows the gulf in class between the top 3 and the rest. We've caught them all on a good day, and us on a bad day or fairly weakened for a few of them and got pummelled 11-0 on aggregate. It is easy to look at other teams picking up points against these 3, Burnley drew with Chelsea, City were beaten by Palace, Liverpool drew at home to brighton - but these results are real bonuses for the teams that do it and realistically being consistent against all the similar teams from 4th-10th is what is going to make a great season for us rather than a poor one.
For me, certainly this season, the joy of beating Leicester away 2-0 far outweighs the disappointment of losing 4-0 to Liverpool as it is a matter of expectations.
Newcastle at home is a must win and we should win and have won that sort of game pretty consistently with good and bad Arsenal teams - where we can judge ourselves much better is the upcoming away game to Man U and Everton and the home game vs West Ham. Take 7 points from those 3 games and top 4 is a more serious possibility.


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Post #537729  Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2021 10:25 am 
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AmericanGooner wrote:
Hopefully at some point we'll exact our revenge against Liverpool. The club I want to get revenge the most is Man Utd. I want to put 9 past them and I hope I live to see it.

The frustrating part for me is we've had some pretty heavy defeats against these teams for some years now but when we were top dogs I don't recall many thrashings we handed out to the other big teams. Like you, I'd love to give one of them a big thrashing soon!


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Post #537730  Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2021 12:01 pm 
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Things go in cycles. I wasn't around but I have to think it looked like Liverpool was going to win titles for ever if you watched them in the 70s and 80s and if someone said they'd go about 2 decades without a title, you'd get laughed at.

I also have to assume, anyone who saw Man Utd in the 70s and 80s and said they would go on a 2 decade run, winnin CLs and a treble, they'd laugh their Arsenals off.

It's been about a dozen years or so that we were really good. We'll get there I think despite the present ownership.

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Post #537731  Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:05 pm 
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AmericanGooner wrote:
Things go in cycles. I wasn't around but I have to think it looked like Liverpool was going to win titles for ever if you watched them in the 70s and 80s and if someone said they'd go about 2 decades without a title, you'd get laughed at.

I also have to assume, anyone who saw Man Utd in the 70s and 80s and said they would go on a 2 decade run, winnin CLs and a treble, they'd laugh their Arsenals off.

It's been about a dozen years or so that we were really good. We'll get there I think despite the present ownership.

The game has changed since those days. It's almost fully financial now. Newcastle will be up there in the next five years due to their newly aquired financial capabilities, that's nothing to do with the natural cycle of football. I'd be happy getting back into the top 4. I think this is as good as we can hope for for the foreseeable future.

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Post #537732  Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:09 pm 
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I saw a tweet this morning that said it's weird to see Utd, Arsenal, Milan, Barca etc all being mediocre as you just assumed theyd always be amongst the best in Europe. It's down to money - despite a few outliers like Liverpool - who are still a very wealthy club. PSG, City, Chelsea, Newcastle (soon) etc. It's just the new order now. Big, state owned or state backed owners. We're not winning the league for years IMO.

EDIT -obvs Utd are down to rank mismanagement too, but egenerally speaking you get my point.

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Post #537733  Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:20 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
kiwipete wrote:
Gidday G7 ..... it a collective thing not a question of Ødegaard too lightweight Aubameyang passed his best , swap both of them into a Liverpool shirt and they'd have performed well .

We need to function as a team , everybody playing their role .
When you display as many weaknesses / basic errors as we did today the introduction of Messi , Ronaldo in their prime wouldn't have made any difference .
Liverpool's play today is a model we should aspire to .
The spat between Arteta and Klopp seemed to galvanise them into action we were quite comfortable up to that point . :laughing7:

I think you’ve made some good points there kiwi. I was surprised by gooner7’s description of Ødegaard as too lightweight. I actually felt he did well after coming on and did enough to count as one of our better players on the day.

I always think there’s a tendency in some fans to overreact to bad defeats, or indeed any defeats - even narrow ones. gooner7 is right that Tavares and Lokonga’s performances were disappointing. I think it’s guaranteed that Tierney will come back into the team for the Newcastle game. I don’t know how close Xhaka is to fitness but when he is I reckon we’ll see him back in the side too. But had Tierney and Xhaka played yesterday I still think we’d have lost, albeit 3-0 instead of 4-0 as I doubt Tierney would have given Liverpool their second goal as Tavares did.

Yesterday’s result does not make us a poor team. All it showed is that currently Liverpool are way ahead of us. But we all knew that anyway.


Bernard, I'm still hoping we can find a Vieira type attacking mid. Ode is good but not a game changer. Lacazette imposes himself on the game better than Ode, IMHO.

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Post #537734  Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:24 pm 
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kiwipete wrote:
gooner7 wrote:

The way I saw it, Ramsdale kept it at 0-0 for a long time. We could have been 2 or 3 down even before their first goal.
.

Little educational post here for you young Singaporean ......... Ramsdale is our goalkeeper , stopping the ball going into our net is his job . :icon_mrgreen1:


hey Kiwi, you are not playing fair :icon_mrgreen: you didn't read the entirety of my post.
perspective is important my friend

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Post #537735  Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2021 2:34 pm 
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Quick story from my trip to Anfield. 20 or so minutes in the stadium was quiet, the Arsenal away fans were in good voice again and sang "where's your famous atmosphere" to the Liverpool fans. I think the Kop must get this a lot because it seemed like they were ready for it and it felt like every single fan in the Kop roared back a chant which I couldn't make out but must have been something along the lines of "here it is!".....to which the Arsenal fans applauded. I thought among all the over the top passion football creates in some fans it was quite a nice bit of shared humour. It went quiet again after


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Post #537736  Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2021 4:31 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Quick story from my trip to Anfield. 20 or so minutes in the stadium was quiet, the Arsenal away fans were in good voice again and sang "where's your famous atmosphere" to the Liverpool fans. I think the Kop must get this a lot because it seemed like they were ready for it and it felt like every single fan in the Kop roared back a chant which I couldn't make out but must have been something along the lines of "here it is!".....to which the Arsenal fans applauded. I thought among all the over the top passion football creates in some fans it was quite a nice bit of shared humour. It went quiet again after

I can recall enjoying (sort of) being at Anfield whilst we lost 4-0. It was in 1998 and we had a cup final to look forward to.

All the scousers seemed to be delighted that we had stopped the mancs from winning the title.

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Post #537737  Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2021 5:16 pm 
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gooner7 wrote:
Bernard, I'm still hoping we can find a Vieira type attacking mid. Ode is good but not a game changer. Lacazette imposes himself on the game better than Ode, IMHO.

Must admit I don’t think Lacazette does impose himself on many games. He’s also leaving, that’s clear. I simply think you underrate Ødegaard. Okay, he’s not as good as Vieira. But let’s be realistic. I haven’t seen an Arsenal midfielder as good as Vieira in nearly 54 years.

https://www.90min.com/posts/mikel-artet ... -of-season


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Post #537738  Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2021 5:52 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Quick story from my trip to Anfield. 20 or so minutes in the stadium was quiet, the Arsenal away fans were in good voice again and sang "where's your famous atmosphere" to the Liverpool fans. I think the Kop must get this a lot because it seemed like they were ready for it and it felt like every single fan in the Kop roared back a chant which I couldn't make out but must have been something along the lines of "here it is!".....to which the Arsenal fans applauded. I thought among all the over the top passion football creates in some fans it was quite a nice bit of shared humour. It went quiet again after


I've been to Anfield a few times over the years. I remember as a kid being stunned by the noise of the Kop. However, on subsequent visits the overall atmosphere was no better or worse than at any other ground.


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Post #537739  Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2021 9:56 pm 
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Bored wrote:
I've been to Anfield a few times over the years. I remember as a kid being stunned by the noise of the Kop. However, on subsequent visits the overall atmosphere was no better or worse than at any other ground.

I must have missed the game when you were stunned by the noise of the Kop. I’ve never found Anfield out of the ordinary for atmosphere, to be honest. Nor have I St James’s Park.


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Post #537740  Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 5:00 am 
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We have the toon next, right? We need a win to erase the last match. Not a draw, a win. Need to keep the momentum going. And then NOT lose at Old Trafford.

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Post #537741  Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 5:04 am 
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A few articles about players Wenger almost got. The one that stands out is Ronaldo. He would likely have been a game changer for us. He came to the PL in 2003. It's almost a certainty I think we would have extended our run at the top with him. He was obviously that special and transformational as a player. I also don't think we'd have been able to keep him for a long tme. Man Utd had him 6 years.

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Post #537742  Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 7:03 am 
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Bernard wrote:
gooner7 wrote:
Bernard, I'm still hoping we can find a Vieira type attacking mid. Ode is good but not a game changer. Lacazette imposes himself on the game better than Ode, IMHO.

Must admit I don’t think Lacazette does impose himself on many games. He’s also leaving, that’s clear. I simply think you underrate Ødegaard. Okay, he’s not as good as Vieira. But let’s be realistic. I haven’t seen an Arsenal midfielder as good as Vieira in nearly 54 years.

https://www.90min.com/posts/mikel-artet ... -of-season


Yes, I do not rate him.
He is neither a fast mover of the ball, like Lokonga, White, even Tomiyasu & Tavares. (need not mention for our 2 current stars, Saka & Emile Smith Rowe)
Nor a maestro in the centre of the field for us.
I see him re-distribute more often than initiate an attack.

Just my opinion. And I would be very very happy if he would eventually prove me wrong.

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Post #537743  Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 7:57 am 
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gooner7 wrote:
Bernard wrote:
Must admit I don’t think Lacazette does impose himself on many games. He’s also leaving, that’s clear. I simply think you underrate Ødegaard. Okay, he’s not as good as Vieira. But let’s be realistic. I haven’t seen an Arsenal midfielder as good as Vieira in nearly 54 years.

https://www.90min.com/posts/mikel-artet ... -of-season

Yes, I do not rate him.
He is neither a fast mover of the ball, like Lokonga, White, even Tomiyasu & Tavares. (need not mention for our 2 current stars, Saka & Emile Smith Rowe)
Nor a maestro in the centre of the field for us.
I see him re-distribute more often than initiate an attack.

Just my opinion. And I would be very very happy if he would eventually prove me wrong.

Sorry, I just think your continual criticism of Ødegaard is so unfair it makes you look small minded. He is a player of tremendous talent and creativity. We were hammered out of site at Liverpool where he came on as a sub and in that time actually looked one of our better players (not that that took much compared to the others) and you insist on singling him out for spiteful criticism. Try giving it a rest.


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Post #537744  Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 8:48 am 
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Bernard wrote:
gooner7 wrote:
Yes, I do not rate him.
He is neither a fast mover of the ball, like Lokonga, White, even Tomiyasu & Tavares. (need not mention for our 2 current stars, Saka & Emile Smith Rowe)
Nor a maestro in the centre of the field for us.
I see him re-distribute more often than initiate an attack.

Just my opinion. And I would be very very happy if he would eventually prove me wrong.

Sorry, I just think your continual criticism of Ødegaard is so unfair it makes you look small minded. He is a player of tremendous talent and creativity. We were hammered out of site at Liverpool where he came on as a sub and in that time actually looked one of our better players (not that that took much compared to the others) and you insist on singling him out for spiteful criticism. Try giving it a rest.

As Gooner 7 said he would be happy to be proved wrong. I think there is some talent in him but there is in Pépé and others. But they need to prove it. He is a long way from that position at this time IMO. You can live him all you like but criticism is currently justified.

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Post #537745  Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 9:13 am 
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Gaz from Oz wrote:
As Gooner 7 said he would be happy to be proved wrong. I think there is some talent in him but there is in Pépé and others. But they need to prove it. He is a long way from that position at this time IMO. You can live him all you like but criticism is currently justified.

I find it strange that some people moan about our lack of creativity when we have Saka, Smith Rowe and Ødegaard. I realise games can pass them by. But that’s the nature of many creative midfielders. It’s what tends to happen with them, or most of them. If we only had creative players in the front six we’d lack balance and be much lower than we are, in my view. Look at Maddison, and he’d have cost twice what we paid for Ødegaard.

I’ve said often enough that people are often driven by what happens in the last game. I didn’t see much to moan about Ødegaard in his substitute appearance at Anfield. He did more than all of Partey, Lokonga, Saka and Smith Rowe that day.

I don’t really like or dislike him as an individual (although I find his comments responsible). That’s my middling outlook on the huge majority of players these days. If Steve Williams joined the club now I probably wouldn’t have liked him so much. But Ødegaard is a special talent and I think we’re lucky to have him.


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Post #537746  Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 9:22 am 
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AmericanGooner wrote:
We have the toon next, right? We need a win to erase the last match. Not a draw, a win. Need to keep the momentum going. And then NOT lose at Old Trafford.

Brilliant. A true masterplan.

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Post #537747  Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 9:34 am 
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Yes Ødegaard has disappointed so far. Clearly talented but seems to struggle to impose himself on games enough right now. This may change in time as he adjusts. I don’t think he’s to be written off but really he’s on the fringe of games and you can’t make a case for dropping lacazette or smith Rowe for him. Likewise Pépé who I thought did well last season and yes we don’t really play to his strengths but eventually you have to say there must be something within the character of these guys that they aren’t imposing themselves on these matches.

It makes me laugh that Arteta was getting routinely accused of tinkering too much changing the side and now this agenda has changed to him picking his “favourites” only. Really the bloke can’t win.


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Post #537748  Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:02 am 
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Darren wrote:
AmericanGooner wrote:
Things go in cycles. I wasn't around but I have to think it looked like Liverpool was going to win titles for ever if you watched them in the 70s and 80s and if someone said they'd go about 2 decades without a title, you'd get laughed at.

I also have to assume, anyone who saw Man Utd in the 70s and 80s and said they would go on a 2 decade run, winnin CLs and a treble, they'd laugh their Arsenals off.

It's been about a dozen years or so that we were really good. We'll get there I think despite the present ownership.

The game has changed since those days. It's almost fully financial now. Newcastle will be up there in the next five years due to their newly aquired financial capabilities, that's nothing to do with the natural cycle of football. I'd be happy getting back into the top 4. I think this is as good as we can hope for for the foreseeable future.


Good point. Will City ever have a long spell out of the top? Hard to see that happening. Still, I think we are more than capable of getting back into the top 3 or 4 and with some luck have a title winning season.

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Post #537749  Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:03 am 
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long time gooner wrote:
AmericanGooner wrote:
We have the toon next, right? We need a win to erase the last match. Not a draw, a win. Need to keep the momentum going. And then NOT lose at Old Trafford.

Brilliant. A true masterplan.


LOL...one has to wonder why I'm not in Arteta's war room.

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Post #537750  Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:40 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
Bored wrote:
I've been to Anfield a few times over the years. I remember as a kid being stunned by the noise of the Kop. However, on subsequent visits the overall atmosphere was no better or worse than at any other ground.

I must have missed the game when you were stunned by the noise of the Kop. I’ve never found Anfield out of the ordinary for atmosphere, to be honest. Nor have I St James’s Park.


It was Liverpool vs Man U and I was probably 10 years old so not surprising you missed it. We had seats in the main stand right next to the Kop. It was only my 2nd ever football match.


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Post #537751  Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 10:46 pm 
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I am reduced to cheering for Bayern and PSG to stop the Chelsea juggernaut and the jammy manure.

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Bored wrote:
Bernard wrote:
I must have missed the game when you were stunned by the noise of the Kop. I’ve never found Anfield out of the ordinary for atmosphere, to be honest. Nor have I St James’s Park.

It was Liverpool vs Man U and I was probably 10 years old so not surprising you missed it. We had seats in the main stand right next to the Kop. It was only my 2nd ever football match.

Do you think your youth and lack of experience in going (as it was your second match) made you stunned by the Kop? I remember in my first game at Highbury, I was stunned by the noise. It was the loudest thing I’d ever heard at that time. Looking back (it was December 1967 when I was at Primary School but a fair bit younger than the 10 you were), I don’t suppose for one second I’d have found it stunning later.


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Post #537753  Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 12:57 am 
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Bernard wrote:
gooner7 wrote:
Yes, I do not rate him.
He is neither a fast mover of the ball, like Lokonga, White, even Tomiyasu & Tavares. (need not mention for our 2 current stars, Saka & Emile Smith Rowe)
Nor a maestro in the centre of the field for us.
I see him re-distribute more often than initiate an attack.

Just my opinion. And I would be very very happy if he would eventually prove me wrong.

Sorry, I just think your continual criticism of Ødegaard is so unfair it makes you look small minded. He is a player of tremendous talent and creativity. We were hammered out of site at Liverpool where he came on as a sub and in that time actually looked one of our better players (not that that took much compared to the others) and you insist on singling him out for spiteful criticism. Try giving it a rest.


Just expected a lot more from him. It is not a witch-hunt on him.
Spiteful? Well, if every critical review is spiteful, then I am. And you are being spiteful with me, with your criticism of my opinion. It's ok, does not stop me thinking the same of Ode until he becomes the type of game changing player we need when chips are down.

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Post #537754  Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 12:59 am 
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Gaz from Oz wrote:
Bernard wrote:
Sorry, I just think your continual criticism of Ødegaard is so unfair it makes you look small minded. He is a player of tremendous talent and creativity. We were hammered out of site at Liverpool where he came on as a sub and in that time actually looked one of our better players (not that that took much compared to the others) and you insist on singling him out for spiteful criticism. Try giving it a rest.

As Gooner 7 said he would be happy to be proved wrong. I think there is some talent in him but there is in Pépé and others. But they need to prove it. He is a long way from that position at this time IMO. You can live him all you like but criticism is currently justified.


Gaz, don't be small-minded :42laughter:

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Post #537755  Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:01 am 
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gooner7 wrote:
Gaz from Oz wrote:
As Gooner 7 said he would be happy to be proved wrong. I think there is some talent in him but there is in Pépé and others. But they need to prove it. He is a long way from that position at this time IMO. You can live him all you like but criticism is currently justified.


Gaz, don't be small-minded :42laughter:

I will try and improve my mind. But my mouth just opens and out it comes. I don't think I can change after 65 years.

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Post #537756  Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 4:40 am 
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Bored wrote:

It was Liverpool vs Man U and I was probably 10 years old so not surprising you missed it. We had seats in the main stand right next to the Kop. It was only my 2nd ever football match.


Traditionally, it was the biggest game in the country so it wouldn't be at all surprising to me if the atmosphere wasn't crazy.

Same with any big rivalry. Any sport frankly. The surprising thing is if it wasn't loud and boisterous.

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Post #537757  Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 4:43 am 
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gooner7 wrote:
Just expected a lot more from him. It is not a witch-hunt on him.
Spiteful? Well, if every critical review is spiteful, then I am. And you are being spiteful with me, with your criticism of my opinion. It's ok, does not stop me thinking the same of Ode until he becomes the type of game changing player we need when chips are down.

Maybe spiteful was too strong a word to use. I thought it shortly after making the post, but not within the hour we have to edit posts. So I apologise for using spiteful. Perhaps unreasonable would have been a better word than spiteful. I just think it’s a bit unfair to keep moaning about Ødegaard. There are far bigger negative issues facing the squad than him.

I think his talent is such that there is so much to be pleased about having him. Yes he’s been inconsistent. I’m sorry but that is the nature with so many creative players. Even our own Saka and Smith Rowe, but as academy graduates their poor displays are ignored more. And they have had them. In saying that, I’m not claiming Ødegaard has been as good as either. If we were to sell all three in January I would expect a lot more for Saka, then the second biggest fee for Smith Rowe, then the lowest fee for Ødegaard.

But Ødegaard doesn’t, in my view, deserve the criticism he got from you after the Liverpool defeat when I would say he did more in his.time on the pitch as a substitute than Saka and Smith Rowe did in their time as starters. Also, look at Maddison. The phrases ‘a bit on the edge of things’ or ‘often fails to affect the game’ could have been invented for him. But whereas he would have cost £60+m, at least Ødegaard cost about half that.

I’m more than happy we’ve got Ødegaard and think he could easily become a big part of a more successful future for the club. You imply you’ll continue your criticism until he becomes a game changer when the chips are down. Your moans suggests you were expecting him to change things radically at Anfield. Come on, let’s be realistic. The game was over well before he came on.


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Post #537758  Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:30 am 
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Bernard wrote:
gooner7 wrote:
Just expected a lot more from him. It is not a witch-hunt on him.
Spiteful? Well, if every critical review is spiteful, then I am. And you are being spiteful with me, with your criticism of my opinion. It's ok, does not stop me thinking the same of Ode until he becomes the type of game changing player we need when chips are down.

Maybe spiteful was too strong a word to use. I thought it shortly after making the post, but not within the hour we have to edit posts. So I apologise for using spiteful. Perhaps unreasonable would have been a better word than spiteful. I just think it’s a bit unfair to keep moaning about Ødegaard. There are far bigger negative issues facing the squad than him.

I think his talent is such that there is so much to be pleased about having him. Yes he’s been inconsistent. I’m sorry but that is the nature with so many creative players. Even our own Saka and Smith Rowe, but as academy graduates their poor displays are ignored more. And they have had them. In saying that, I’m not claiming Ødegaard has been as good as either. If we were to sell all three in January I would expect a lot more for Saka, then the second biggest fee for Smith Rowe, then the lowest fee for Ødegaard.

But Ødegaard doesn’t, in my view, deserve the criticism he got from you after the Liverpool defeat when I would say he did more in his.time on the pitch as a substitute than Saka and Smith Rowe did in their time as starters. Also, look at Maddison. The phrases ‘a bit on the edge of things’ or ‘often fails to affect the game’ could have been invented for him. But whereas he would have cost £60+m, at least Ødegaard cost about half that.

I’m more than happy we’ve got Ødegaard and think he could easily become a big part of a more successful future for the club. You imply you’ll continue your criticism until he becomes a game changer when the chips are down. Your moans suggests you were expecting him to change things radically at Anfield. Come on, let’s be realistic. The game was over well before he came on.


Fair comments

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Post #537759  Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 6:06 am 
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Darn it. Wrote something and I got called away and it timed out. Anyway, as an aside, American university football stadiums have by far the biggest 'atmosphere' in America and I would contend, rival anywhere in the world.

My uni was a top tier sports uni. Our school had in my day around 25,000 students, all programs, undergrad, masters, PhD programs, etc, the city was a small southern college town of 20,000 people. The football stadium seated around 93,000. It was sold out every home game. Not surprising to some extent. There are only about 5 or 6 home games for uni teams. So, they are fairly scarce each season. The top tier schools are almost always sold out for home games going back decades.

The atmosphere that struck me the most with the most aura in my memory is Neyland Stadium at the University of Tennessee, over 100k seater, steps steep, so when you came back from the concession stand and walked down to your seat you felt like you were going to fall down.

In my home state of Pennsylvania, The Penn State stadium at home games was an atmosphere I have rarely if ever seen equaled. It seats at least 105-106k people and you can't hear yourself at all.

The stadium that I thought was the hardest for opposition fans but especially for players is LSU (Lousiana State University) in Baton Rouge. They were in our conference and I have been in town a few times for a game. Seats well over 100k and that swampy, oppressive, Bayou heat beats you down. Over 100,000 people all crammed into a stadium in swamp weather, well...you will lose 2 or 3 kg just being there. Imagine if you are an opposition football team with all that equipment and that helmut trapping that heat under you?

These football programs bring in on average over 50 million dollars annually to the top 15 or 20 programs. Its big money. If they have a good basketball program its tens of millions of more.

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Post #537760  Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 6:27 am 
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This article does a decent job of summing up the particulars of the upcoming St. Louis vs the NFL, Kroenke, etc, court battle.

My guess? The City will win. The NFL owners are part of the present American 'corporotocracy' that has resulted in America being a large, inept and corrupt super power. The NFL lied and cheated host cities for decades. I have no reason to believe they didn't do the same to St. Louis which is a 2nd tier city in size and power so thought they could easily be brushed aside.

My other guess? The NFL will settle out of court. The potential pay out is too huge. The big question for Kroenke is if or how much the NFL will share in any monetary payout.

Some owners think they (via the league) should not be subject to any part of any settlement since (in their minds), Kroenke's city, Kroenke's deal, so Kroenke's problem. Kroenke could counter that the city got some reassurances from the league either directly or indirectly that they were going to keep the Rams. They spent a lot to keep the Rams happy thinking they were staying when they had already decided to leave.

The city, so far, has a fairly strong case, that they were led to be believe the Rams were staying, spent the money for upgrades that were "agreed to" while Kroenke knew the whole time he had no intention to stay and was just using that for time to put his move to LA in place.

That has happened a few times in other cities, but the difference is these cities didn't file a law suit over it. I don't think the NFL or Kroenke thought St. Louis would. Probably because filing such a lawsuit would make it extremely unlikely the NFL would grant anyone else a franchise in St. Louis. That's the reason other cities didn't. Baltimore lost its team to Indianaopolis via subterfuge but they didn't file a lawsuit and eventually got another team. Implied agreement was don't sue us and we'll make sure you get another team when we can.

I've said before, that American cities don't consider themselves a 'big city' unless they have professional teams, especially an NFL team. Basketball, baseball, and ice hockey sports teams are all well and good but the NFL is for the "biggest, most important" cities: Los Angeles, Chicago, New York, Houston, etc.

2nd tier cities want to be one of the big boys and will screw over their own citizens with taxes in order to entice an NFL team or keep their team. Some of these cities were once major cities but fell on hard times due to a plethora of things, among which, the loss of the industrial base. Pittsburgh, provided steel for the nation and much of the world, gave us Carnegie, and other robber barrons of the day, now only has a population of about 300k. There are more people of Korean American ancestry in Los Angeles alone than people in Pittsburgh, to give you some perspective. Same for St. Louis with a similar population. Once hailed as the 'Gateway to the West, because everything moving from one side of the Mississippi river to the other came through there. It gave us the Pulitzer family of newspapers and the prize. Its a shadow of its past glory. Baltimore has over 600k people but that's about a quarter of LA, Chicago, and other cities. Its sandwiched between Washington, DC, Philadelphia and New York and is the least important of the aforementioned.

Possibly similar to Sheffield, Leeds and other cities in the UK for reference but I'm writing that with only nominal knowledge of their histories.

Anyway, my interest is almost solely about how it will affect The Arsenal if or when Kroenke loses the lawsuit. I'd be surprised if they won, unless the judge is a Republican appointee with a capitalist mindset.


https://sports.yahoo.com/as-nf-ls-billion-dollar-mediation-with-st-louis-begins-team-owners-could-wage-war-against-each-other-062242924.html

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