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Post #536481  Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 8:55 pm 
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Well done Lacazette. :21encouragement: we don't deserve it, but we'll take it.


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Post #536482  Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 8:55 pm 
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long time gooner wrote:
Totally undeserved. Good shift all round by Lacazette though.

deserved for lacazette. He has looked bright and motivated when he's come on


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Post #536483  Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 8:56 pm 
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Not really what we deserved but I’ll gladly take that

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Post #536484  Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 8:56 pm 
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Unacceptable. This should have been 3 points.

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Post #536485  Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 8:56 pm 
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We look mid table at best.


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Post #536486  Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 8:57 pm 
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Seeing Vieira down on his knees devastated at the end made me feel quite sorry for him. He's done a wonderful job so far with Palace


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Post #536487  Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 8:58 pm 
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Lacazette is the sort of player we missed. If only Ode would exhibit similar drive.

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Post #536488  Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 8:59 pm 
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bromley gooner wrote:
We look mid table at best.

12th place now, and at least six teams above us would kill to have our starting eleven.


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Post #536489  Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 8:59 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Seeing Vieira down on his knees devastated at the end made me feel quite sorry for him. He's done a wonderful job so far with Palace


Could Vieira be our next manager?

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Post #536490  Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:00 pm 
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gooner7 wrote:
Lacazette is the sort of player we missed. If only Ode would exhibit similar drive.

Could see it as soon as he came on, first touch won us a corner and he was whipping the crowd up. good sub cameos should lead to starts otherwise where is the motivation.


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Post #536491  Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:01 pm 
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bromley gooner wrote:
We look mid table at best.



We are mid table

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Post #536492  Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:02 pm 
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Gunfire wrote:
Unacceptable. This should have been 3 points.


Agree

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Post #536493  Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:03 pm 
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Both promising players but *%^@*** hell Ødegaard and Smith Rowe aren’t good enough to be the creative hub of this team yet. Saka goes off and our final ball is non existent it’s Pépé or bust. No combination play nothing. It’s all very average, some days they will do well but others it won’t work and I think both those scenarios will happen with equal frequency.

Not sure what the answer is.


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Post #536494  Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:03 pm 
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Hazuki wrote:
bromley gooner wrote:
We look mid table at best.

12th place now, and at least six teams above us would kill to have our starting eleven.


When the total is less than the sum of the individual parts you have to blame the manager don't you?.

Too many sub-par performances under Arteta against good but not great opposition.


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Post #536495  Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:05 pm 
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Very surprised by Paddy.
Thought he was average at best and would have preferred Arteta to him when Emery was sacked but has surprise me.
Doing a good job at palace and has changed their identity.
Thought Zaha missing was a massive boost for us but even without him palace were the better team.
We got out of jail for sure.
Arteta is a poor manager.
We looked toothless and this is on paper our strongest team.
We are being dominated now by teams who not long ago were swatted aside by us.
Not anymore.
Really fearing that villa game on this performance.


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Post #536496  Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:07 pm 
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Pépé is a show pony with dancing feet but he appears to actually be quite a brainless, sum might even say aimless, footballer whose undoubted technical skills are not utilised in any really progressive way.


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Post #536497  Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:08 pm 
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I think this formation where we only play Partey in midfield is not the way to go. There are too many well organised teams in the league who overrun us there. If Xhaka was fit we’d never be playing this formation.

If Saka is the best left wing and right wing we have then play him on his stronger side. Get him on the right and move others around to accommodate him.

The ominous thing is this is pretty much the best 11 we have and in terms of starting 11’s there’s not much different we can feasibly do.


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Post #536498  Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:08 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Both promising players but *%^@*** hell Ødegaard and Smith Rowe aren’t good enough to be the creative hub of this team yet. Saka goes off and our final ball is non existent it’s Pépé or bust. No combination play nothing. It’s all very average, some days they will do well but others it won’t work and I think both those scenarios will happen with equal frequency.

Not sure what the answer is.


I actually genuinely forgot that Ødegaard was even on the pitch in the 2nd half.


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Post #536499  Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:12 pm 
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socrates wrote:
Pépé is a show pony with dancing feet but he appears to actually be quite a brainless, sum might even say aimless, footballer whose undoubted technical skills are not utilised in any really progressive way.

My frustration is with him is there are some pretty big average wingers or strikers who look far more dangerous in the league. Ayew tonight was a better winger than Pépé.
I still don’t think we use him to suit his skills though. Pépé tends to receive the ball between the edge of the box and the touchline. If we can get him the ball more centrally we utilise him better. That’s not saying start him as a 10. If you look where a lot of his good moments come from it’s much closer to the goal, he’s not really a touchline hugging winger.


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Post #536500  Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:15 pm 
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socrates wrote:
Pépé is a show pony with dancing feet but he appears to actually be quite a brainless, sum might even say aimless, footballer whose undoubted technical skills are not utilised in any really progressive way.


I find myself agreeing and somehow trying to reconcile the fact he came away with basically an assist and by the end of the season his numbers always suggest he has end product. He’s maddening though. I do wish he’d get a consistent run in the team in his best position (at the expense of Saka…. :25surprise:) so we can finally write him off or watch him come good. Well better.


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Post #536501  Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:16 pm 
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I am actually beginning to think that Tierney's tendency to play high up the pitch and whip crosses in is more of a hindrance than a help. We don't get enough players in the box to justify it and it becomes a fruitless tactic.


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Post #536502  Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:18 pm 
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What I would say about Pépé is he is inconsistent and frustrating in equal measure but he can provide a moment of goalscoring quality be it a shot or cross that brings a goal and there are NOT many players in our squad capable of doing that there really isn’t.

There is not a lot of goals in this side. Go through it player by player. Not enough quality on the ball.


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Post #536503  Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:21 pm 
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Gunfire wrote:
Unacceptable. This should have been 3 points.

Looking on the bright side, it is important that we kept the unbeaten run going.

Having said that, I'm not in the least bit confident that it will last much longer. There are only so many 'get out of jail' cards in the pack. We simply need to do better than that.

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Post #536504  Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:21 pm 
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Rich wrote:
I think this formation where we only play Partey in midfield is not the way to go. There are too many well organised teams in the league who overrun us there. If Xhaka was fit we’d never be playing this formation.

I actually have some sympathy for Partey, who had a poor game. Smith-Rowe and Ødegaard are attacking players, not proper midfielders. Partey is basically left trying to hold the midfield together on his own, and that's extremely difficult at this level. In a time where a lot of teams (most of the really good ones actually) are playing with three midfielders to win that important battle, we're playing with one.


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Post #536505  Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:25 pm 
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Hazuki wrote:
Rich wrote:
I think this formation where we only play Partey in midfield is not the way to go. There are too many well organised teams in the league who overrun us there. If Xhaka was fit we’d never be playing this formation.

I actually have some sympathy for Partey, who had a poor game. Smith-Rowe and Ødegaard are attacking players, not proper midfielders. Partey is basically left trying to hold the midfield together on his own, and that's extremely difficult at this level. In a time where a lot of teams (most of the really good ones actually) are playing with three midfielders to win that important battle, we're playing with one.


Its incredibly difficult, maybe even impossible, to boss a PL midfield on your own. The midfield battle is often where a game is one and lost. Dominate the midfield and you have half a chance.


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Post #536506  Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:28 pm 
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socrates wrote:
Hazuki wrote:
I actually have some sympathy for Partey, who had a poor game. Smith-Rowe and Ødegaard are attacking players, not proper midfielders. Partey is basically left trying to hold the midfield together on his own, and that's extremely difficult at this level. In a time where a lot of teams (most of the really good ones actually) are playing with three midfielders to win that important battle, we're playing with one.


Its incredibly difficult, maybe even impossible, to boss a PL midfield on your own. The midfield battle is often where a game is one and lost. Dominate the midfield and you have half a chance.

Sympathy in getting overrun in 3v1 midfields yes, but no slack for dawdling on the ball and getting his pocket picked. If Xhaka made the mistake Partey did tonight he be getting it with both barrels by the fans


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Post #536507  Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:29 pm 
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Looks more like the rampant performance v Spurs was much more to do with spurs bizarre tactical plan of emptying their midfield than any remarkable brilliance from us.
It’s the team we need to go back to though. Saka on the right and Emile Smith Rowe on the left with Ødegaard in the middle.


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Post #536508  Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:29 pm 
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Rich wrote:
socrates wrote:

Its incredibly difficult, maybe even impossible, to boss a PL midfield on your own. The midfield battle is often where a game is one and lost. Dominate the midfield and you have half a chance.

Sympathy in getting overrun in 3v1 midfields yes, but no slack for dawdling on the ball and getting his pocket picked. If Xhaka made the mistake Partey did tonight he be getting it with both barrels by the fans


Of course, it was a massive error. Unfortunately, he has those caught on the ball moments in his locker.


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Post #536509  Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:31 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Looks more like the rampant performance v Spurs was much more to do with spurs bizarre tactical plan of emptying their midfield than any remarkable brilliance from us.
It’s the team we need to go back to though. Saka on the right and Emile Smith Rowe on the left with Ødegaard in the middle.


In truth Spurs were diabolical 1st half, we capitalised and took our chances but even in the 2nd half we ran out of steam and could have conceded a couple.


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Post #536510  Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:36 pm 
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We have no real fluidity to our play.

We don't really create many chances in open play and we don't have many individuals with goals in them and that is a problem.


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Post #536511  Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:46 pm 
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I noticed sky replaced the Gallagher tackle on Lokonga quite a lot in the build up to their 2nd goal. There didn’t seem to be much commentary to go with it but sky were trying to show that Gallagher didn’t actually touch the ball. He more sort of leaned in to Lokonga. I didn’t think it was a free kick but some refs would have given it much to the frustration of palace for sure


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Post #536512  Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:49 pm 
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socrates wrote:
Rich wrote:
Sympathy in getting overrun in 3v1 midfields yes, but no slack for dawdling on the ball and getting his pocket picked. If Xhaka made the mistake Partey did tonight he be getting it with both barrels by the fans


Of course, it was a massive error. Unfortunately, he has those caught on the ball moments in his locker.

I’ve said before I’m not convinced his best position is the deepest lying midfielder. That said I want to see my dynamism from him in games, I want it to be Partey with his athleticism and physique being the one hustling and knocking players off the ball.

Once again we have a game where we don’t win unless our best players actually play well. Arteta has yet to find a way to win games when we struggle for fluidity.


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Post #536513  Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:53 pm 
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Basically the Deontay wilder of the premier league.

On our day we can absolutely smash any side in a 20 minute period but our team is too young and immature to control the game so there will be periods where we allow the opposition to come back into it.


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Post #536514  Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:53 pm 
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Rich wrote:
socrates wrote:

Of course, it was a massive error. Unfortunately, he has those caught on the ball moments in his locker.

I’ve said before I’m not convinced his best position is the deepest lying midfielder. That said I want to see my dynamism from him in games, I want it to be Partey with his athleticism and physique being the one hustling and knocking players off the ball.

Once again we have a game where we don’t win unless our best players actually play well. Arteta has yet to find a way to win games when we struggle for fluidity.


We generally always struggle for fluidity. How many times have we actually played an exciting, expansive, attacking brand of football under Arteta's reign?


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Post #536515  Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:54 pm 
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Rich wrote:
I noticed sky replaced the Gallagher tackle on Lokonga quite a lot in the build up to their 2nd goal. There didn’t seem to be much commentary to go with it but sky were trying to show that Gallagher didn’t actually touch the ball. He more sort of leaned in to Lokonga. I didn’t think it was a free kick but some refs would have given it much to the frustration of palace for sure


Yeah I thought that but generally, and especially this season, that’s not going to be given and I’ve got no huge complaints with no whistle there. The way the league is being officiated this season favours pressing because if you bundle someone you’re more than likely going to get away with it. Shame we don’t really do it with any real consistency or expertise.


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Post #536516  Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:56 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Once again we have a game where we don’t win unless our best players actually play well. Arteta has yet to find a way to win games when we struggle for fluidity.

I think Norwich and Burnley were those type of wins. The more pressing issue for me is that we don't have any fluidity to our game at all. First half against Tottenham seems very much like the exception, we're just a poor attacking side on a consistent basis. More bad attacking performances than good ones, and it's been going on for years now.


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Post #536517  Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:59 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Basically the Deontay wilder of the premier league.

On our day we can absolutely smash any side in a 20 minute period but our team is too young and immature to control the game so there will be periods where we allow the opposition to come back into it.


I am not sure we are big punchers TG, we throw very few punches and those we do throw tend to fall short. We generally barely lay a glove on the opposition.


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Post #536518  Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 10:26 pm 
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Hazuki wrote:
Rich wrote:
I think this formation where we only play Partey in midfield is not the way to go. There are too many well organised teams in the league who overrun us there. If Xhaka was fit we’d never be playing this formation.

I actually have some sympathy for Partey, who had a poor game. Smith-Rowe and Ødegaard are attacking players, not proper midfielders. .

There you have it.

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Post #536519  Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 12:34 am 
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Ash wrote:
Yeah I thought that but generally, and especially this season, that’s not going to be given and I’ve got no huge complaints with no whistle there. The way the league is being officiated this season favours pressing because if you bundle someone you’re more than likely going to get away with it. Shame we don’t really do it with any real consistency or expertise.

Yes the lack of proper press from us is a huge concern. Especially when you see other coaches coach an effective press in next to no time. Aubameyang looked eager to press today, Ødegaard and Emile Smith Rowe are generally on board but we struggle to form any press that looks properly worked out on the training pitch. Some teams only press in certain areas, some have trigger pressing like when they spot a bad touch or odd played behind a player, or some just press all the time. Palace did that to us and we struggled. We struggle to press and struggle to have an effective plan against the press save for a couple of one touch moves that are 1 in 10 events.

Anytime I’ve seen Arsenal play good dominant football under Arteta it has been high energy, high tempo and with a high press. And also I can’t think of many games where we’ve played this way and it’s been to our detriment ie: just got picked off on the counter for fun


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Post #536520  Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 1:22 am 
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socrates wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
Both promising players but *%^@*** hell Ødegaard and Smith Rowe aren’t good enough to be the creative hub of this team yet. Saka goes off and our final ball is non existent it’s Pépé or bust. No combination play nothing. It’s all very average, some days they will do well but others it won’t work and I think both those scenarios will happen with equal frequency.

Not sure what the answer is.


I actually genuinely forgot that Ødegaard was even on the pitch in the 2nd half.


This has been my worry about Ødegaard. He just doesn't seem to have the energy to stay active in a game, doesn't drive forward with the ball and also lacks pace. He wasn't the only one though. Pépé was awful, Tierney just didn't seem to want to run and constantly passed it back.

After a bright start, the 1st half just seem to pass us by and the young squad doesn't yet have the personalities to give it a jump start. At half time, I really don't understand why Arteta replaced Saka with a central midfielder when Martinelli is a direct and dangerous replacement. If the intent was to sure up the midfield and provide more options to get through the Palace midfield pressure then Lakonga doens't have the experience to come on in this type of situation to offer that.

Only bright spot for me was Partey whose workrate was second to none.

Overall a game the Palace fully deserved to win.


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